Speaker 0
Into the wild, I'm going into the wild, I am. It's been a wild freedom child, since I left my roots back home. Into the wild I'm good. Into the wild I am. It's been a while, freedom child, since I left my roots back home.
Speaker 1
Welcome to the Free Birth Society podcast. This is a radical space for women who are ready to celebrate their autonomous choices in birth, motherhood, and beyond. Together, we'll learn about wild birth through personal narrative, we'll explore the politics of birth, and we'll analyze everything that relates to our lives as women from a feminist perspective. Here's your host, Emilee Saldaya.
Speaker 0
It's been a wild freedom since I've left my roots back home.
Speaker 2
Our BK grad and brave, brilliant woman, Amelia, is on the show today to share her big stories. Amelia has really moved the needle big time in her life from being initiated into motherhood with two entirely unnecessary traumatic c sections to moving beyond the medical paradigm entirely in her subsequent births. It is a painful story, full of trauma, medical midwifery betrayal, a desired VBAC turned repeat c section, and then Amelia has a spontaneous undisturbed early birth, a miscarriage completed at home. This is when she realized the stories she was told were lies and that she, in fact, was entirely whole and capable of birth. Amelia stepped into who she really is, choosing free birth, choosing herself. Amelia took the radical birth keeper school to help her integrate the big work of her birth trauma and in choosing free birth, and you can too. The doors are open now until April fourteenth, and this is the only round we're offering this year. The school got a face lift. It's new and improved. I can't wait to see who's ready for what we have to offer you. It's never been more accessible either. We're now offering payment plans as low as two forty nine a month, and we have halved over halved the price. So there's basically no reason not to join in and let us blow your minds. What we share on this podcast is just the beginning. You know, if you're here, you're binging these episodes. You know you're so into it. So join us in RBK, and let us usher you into the depths of sovereign birth work. Even if you don't really want to actually attend birth, this is the program to begin understanding who you are, who you can be within this revolution taking place within the sovereign birth paradigm. So go check out our gorgeous new website, w w w dot radical birth keeper school dot com. Check out what the students all have to say. Look at the curriculum, and then sign up, and I'll see you in April. Alright. Enjoy this episode. It's a really good one. Welcome to the show, Amelia.
Speaker 3
Hi. I'm so happy to be here.
Speaker 2
I know. It's so fun. It's kind of a long time coming. Right?
Speaker 3
Yeah. For sure.
Speaker 2
So I know you through the membership, and you took RBK. And I know a little bit about your birth experience history, but what prompted this invitation was seeing your beautiful new announcement of now your fourth.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 2
Amazing. Oh, and I met you at MRF, obviously.
Speaker 4
Yep.
Speaker 2
Yeah. So give us some context. Tell us who you are before your first birth. And, yeah, I mean, what we're here to talk about today is that you had two c sections in a row. Right?
Speaker 3
Yep.
Speaker 2
And then went right into free birthing. So such an important story for women to hear because so many women think, okay. Maybe one c section. Okay. Yeah. Maybe I could birth at home, but women contact me all the time. Oh, I've had two, so no way. So take it away.
Speaker 3
Alright. So yeah. Before my first son was born, I was, I would say, moderately enmeshed in the medical system. I mean, I've always been, like, a questioner of norms. So, like, I was like, I'm not gonna take Advil, but, yes, I'm gonna see an OB. So it was just kind of like a weird mid ground that I was occupying at that time. And, mostly because I just, like, oriented from fear so, so much back then. And that's just kind of, like, part of my lineage, especially, like, my the women in my family are very fear oriented people. And pretty much every single choice that they make and that I made back then was based on something that I was afraid of. It was never, like, what I really wanted. Totally. So, we tried for, like, about a year. And when we decided to stop trying and bought a house and, like, got busy doing other things, I found out I was pregnant and, like, immediately called the OB. And they were like, we don't even wanna see you until you're twelve weeks. And that was my first introduction to, like, all of it. And I was like, wait a second. Like, I thought you were supposed to call immediately, and they would be like, yes. Come now. But they, like, didn't even seem interested, which was, like, a really weird first start, but I had a pretty uncomplicated pregnancy. And then around the thirty nine week mark, of course, they started talking about you schedule your, you know, induction now if you go past certain point. And I was like, no. No. I I read, like, the birth partner and, like, INA May and, like, stuff like that during that pregnancy. Like, not very deep, but, like, I was trying to do my due diligence. And I was like, no. I'm I'm gonna go till forty two weeks, definitely. Like, if that's what happens, like, I'm not scheduling an induction before that and all the things. And then, of course, the, like, biweekly appointments started when I was past the forty week mark and this nonstress tests and the ultrasounds. And, basically, at my I was just just past forty one weeks. They said that I had low fluid on an ultrasound. And I kind of knew enough to be like, why? Why does that happen? And the ultrasound tech was just like, it just happens. You're just at that point in pregnancy now, and, you know, it just starts to fail. So so let me go talk to the doctor, and I sat in the waiting room, like, like, with my mom because I was bringing my mom to my appointments at that point. And we sat for, like, a really long time. And then the doctor literally came to, like, the reception window and was just like, you need to go to the hospital for an induction. They're waiting for you. Woah. And, like, that was it. He didn't even bring me into a room or anything. And, like, he left, and I was just like, okay. I guess we're going to the hospital for an induction. So we went.
Speaker 2
That's that that's that real human to human care we are all looking for at the end of our pregnancy.
Speaker 3
Totally. Totally. I was like, I that was so abrupt and, like, terrifying. Like, I'm a first time mom. I was twenty three years old. I, like, had no idea. Like, you're not even gonna explain anything to me, but okay. Let's go to the hospital for an induction. That's awesome. We did. I didn't, like, know what else to do. Yeah. And the whole time, I was, like, on the on the car ride there thinking, like, I don't wanna do this. Like, can't I at least go home and think about it? But, like, I just I was scared, and I didn't know what the heck was going on. I just went with it. So we showed up to the hospital at, like, nine AM, and they basically forgot I was there until mid afternoon because I told them that I hadn't eaten anything. So I guess they were giving me the entire day to eat breakfast, and, they started doing, the induction with Servideo, which didn't do anything after, like, twelve hours. And then they did another dose of that, and that still barely did anything. I think I was, like, two centimeters and no contractions. Like, nothing. My body was absolutely not ready at all. Mhmm. And then they decided to do the misoprostol, which I questioned because I had read that it has a lot of dangerous side effects that I was nervous about. And, of course, they were just like, no. No. It's it's fine. It's standard. It's not It's fine.
Speaker 2
I mean, it's not it's not FDA approved for this. It's actually the abortion pill, but you should totally take it.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Exactly. And, like, they didn't of course, they didn't explain anything to me. And
Speaker 2
No. Why would they do that? Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait.
Speaker 4
Wait. Wait.
Speaker 3
Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait.
Speaker 0
Wait. Wait.
Speaker 2
Wait. Wait. Wait.
Speaker 3
Wait. Wait I had written a birth plan. And then, like, when I got there, they asked me if I had a birth plan. I was like, no. Because I didn't want them to judge me and, like, treat me differently for having a birth plan. And the nurse immediately was like, oh, good. I'm glad you're, like, a go with the flow kind of mom. And I was like like, now looking back, that's like, oh, okay. Grooming. That was Mhmm. First red flag in the hospital, anyway. But yeah. So I was there overnight the first night. They moved me into a different room in the middle of the night because it was busy, and then moved me back.
Speaker 2
Woah.
Speaker 3
Different labor and delivery room in the morning, which was super confusing and disorienting and, like, really threw me off. And it wasn't a private room, so it was, like, just for a few hours, I was just sitting here in a bed trying to get labor going with, like, a stranger next to me. It was so weird.
Speaker 2
They literally treat zoo animals better.
Speaker 3
Yeah. A hundred percent. Like, I had no privacy at all. There were multiple resident doctors, like, coming in and asking if they could do cervical checks, which I just said yes to because at that point, I was just saying yes to everything, and I didn't really, like, I didn't want them to start, like, flagging me as somebody who was difficult. Like, I remember that being in the back of my head with every choice that I was making. Like, keep them from, like, getting angry with you so they don't treat you differently.
Speaker 2
Wow. That's, like, total rape culture.
Speaker 3
Yeah. You know? Like,
Speaker 2
ugh. That's so intense.
Speaker 3
And so by, like I don't know. I don't know how long it had been. Almost almost two days by that point that they did the misoprostol, and it still I was, like, three centimeters. Nothing was really happening. And they were like, well, we're gonna start you on pitocin anyway because that's just the next step in the whole process. So I did that, and the contractions actually, like, started with the pitocin. And by, like, evening time of that day, which was two days in, I was, like, in so much pain. The pitocin was horrible. Horrible. And they kept increasing it. Like, the nurse that I had that day was also awful. She just, like, would come in and be like, okay. It's time to increase it every thirty minutes. And, like, I'd be like, are you sure? Like, I'm really in a lot of pain. This is, like, getting really uncomfortable. And, like, she had, like, nothing nice to say to me. She would just be like, well, this is what I have to do and, like, keep trying the drugs out.
Speaker 2
What's really, really fucked up about it is that her job is exclusively to look at the construct the contraction strip and just get them three minutes apart. It has nothing to do with the human in front of her that's saying, woah. Woah. Woah. This is too much, and let's slow down. Her job is to dehumanize you and just turn the pit up every thirty minutes until she sees the right contraction pattern on the strip. I mean, if that doesn't, like, encapsulate the disembodiment of of obstetrics, you know, what does?
Speaker 3
Yeah. And she, like, barely was even in the room. She was, like, checking it from, you know, like, the nurse's station or whatever. And I was, like, trying to stay active and, like, bounce on the ball and do all the things that they tell you to do. And at one point, she came in and was like, I can't get a read on your monitor, so you have to stop. Mhmm. And I was like, so now I just have to lay here? Yeah. And she was like, yeah. Okay. And, of course, that was way worse. Way, way worse. So I did that all night long, and I really didn't want an epidural. So I was trying really, really hard to just do it as naturally as possible. Like, it was so weird where my brain was. Like, I was so disembodied and so like, I didn't even, like, feel my baby moving the whole entire time, and it just, like, I forgot what I was even there for. Mhmm. Like, I really, like, did not even recognize and, like, make the connection anymore that, like, I was there to have a baby. I didn't even feel pregnant anymore because of, like, all the other you know, like, the IV in your arm and all the things, like, all over your body. It was so disorienting, and it still wasn't, like, doing anything. The next time that they checked me, I was still four centimeters, and I was still only contracting with the Pitocin. So, thankfully, the only thing that I'm grateful for in the whole experience besides my child was that I had one of my doctors finally come in because I was, like, only seeing residents of the hospital. I didn't know any of them. Finally, one of my doctors came in and looked at me and had some sympathy and could tell that I was just, like, at a breaking point and decided that we would take a break from the Pitocin for a few hours and let me eat because it had been two days, and I hadn't eaten or drank anything. And Which,
Speaker 2
by the way, when you're concerned about someone's fluids in utero, dehydrating them and starving them is totally the move.
Speaker 3
Exactly. And I remember asking them, like, could my fluid be low because it's seven thirty in the morning and I haven't drank anything or eaten breakfast? And we're like, no. That's not that's not, like, relevant. Okay. Yeah. He gave me a break for, like, a few hours. I finally ate something. I finally felt a little bit better. And then we started up again, and a few hours later that evening, I was like, okay. I'm having an epidural because I just I just can't do this anymore without it. And I really, really wanted to leave, but my mother was, like, in and out still. And that was a whole other, like, side story because I asked her not to be present for the birth. And I was very clear with her when I was pregnant that she was not to be present for the birth, and she just kind of, like, kept popping in and hanging around. Oh. And I was just so not in my right state of mind anymore to, like, say or do anything at all about any of it. So that kept really throwing me off because she was in the room, and I was, like, afraid to say something that she would, like, think was rude to the doctors. And, like, it was just a whole other dynamic that, like, kept me really firmly placed in that people pleasing, like, good girl frame of mind. And I took the epidural. I finally slept a little. It was almost three days of being in the hospital at that point. And finally, by the morning, I was ten centimeters dilated. And so one of my actual doctors, a different one, of course, because it's whoever's on call, came in and was like, okay. Lay back. Put your legs up in the stirrups. It's time to start pushing. And I remember thinking it was, like, the most uncomfortable, strange position to be in. Like, your head is, like, lower than your legs, and, like, it's just it was so weird.
Speaker 2
You're like a turtle on your back. Yeah.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Like, I've never felt, like, so weird laying down. It was very strange. And, you know, all the people there staring at me with my legs spread, which was great. And she coached me to push with the contractions that she could see because I couldn't feel them anymore, like, three times. And my baby's heart rate, like, totally bottomed out. And at that point, they were like, okay. It's time for a c section. And I just, like, left my body. I just wasn't there anymore. And I remember them, like, giving me all the paperwork and reading the thing and, like, death. Like, on the, like, waiver that they make you sign, like, risk of death. Like, that was, like, the only word that I could, like, process when I was signing this paperwork. And I was like, oh my god. They, like, don't tell you that, like like, what else are you supposed to do at that point? Like, you've been there, and you've been subject to everything that they're doing to you. And now they're telling you it's an emergency, and your baby is going to die if you don't do this. But, also, you could die doing it, and you don't have a choice. So let's go.
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
And, like, my mind was just, like, racing. Like, I was just, like, in a spiral.
Speaker 2
Yeah. And this is this is culture's initiation to motherhood. Like, this is it. This is the rite of passage, ritual that the vast majority of women walk through to enter motherhood, strip you down, humiliate you, torture you, back you into a corner, an impossible situation, drug you up, numb you so you can't even leave, and then tell you you have to have a super dangerous surgery. I mean, that is some evil ass shit. Yeah. Welcome to motherhood. It's so painful.
Speaker 3
Yeah. And it's, like, now having such different experiences to compare it to and, like, to see myself on the other side of that, it's startling Mhmm. To say the least to, like, think of the difference between how your left after an experience like that postpartum with a baby, entering motherhood with that child. Even if it's not your first time, like, every single time is different and and versus what it's like when you're not subjecting yourself to all of that. Mhmm. But yeah. So they wheeled me into the OR, and I had no idea that your arms get strapped down when you have a c section. That was utterly terrifying. And I didn't know if my husband was gonna come in the room or not at that point because he's, like, a little squeamish, and he didn't have, like, time to communicate with me whether he was coming or not Oh god. Before they, like, swept me away. And so I was just, like, there by myself thinking, like, I'm just, like it's just me and these people, and this is just what it's gonna be. And, thankfully, he did end up coming in, and he was there, which was a little bit of a comfort. But he was terrified too and traumatized. He had no clue what was happening. And they did the c section, and I remember feeling, like, all the tugging and oh, god. It was just so there's not even, like, words to describe what that feels like. It's so violating. And we heard him cry when he finally was removed from me. And both of us just, like, broke down because at that point, all I could feel was relief. Mhmm. I wasn't even happy. Like, I wasn't, like, processing absolutely anything else at that point, just, like, utter relief Yeah. That he was alive. Over with. Yeah. Like, I'm just glad he's alive. Like, that's all I can even think about right now. And they, like, gave him you know, did the things, swayed him and wiped him and all that stuff and gave him wrapped up to my husband. And I remember asking them, like, of every single thing that I wanted this birth to be, like, absolutely none of it happened. I didn't want drugs. I didn't want to be induced. I didn't want any of it. Every I didn't want a c section. Every single thing happened. Mhmm. And I remember asking them, like, can I please have skin to skin right after birth? Like, it's the only thing I'm asking for. It's the only thing, like, left of what I dreamed of this experience that I could possibly even have. And they were like, yeah. And so, like, they unbuttoned, like, my shoulder from the, like, hospital gown and, like, unwrapped the baby's shoulder from the blanket and, like, had my husband hold him, like, against my shoulder while I was laying there with my arms strapped down. And that was what they considered skin to skin. And at that point, I was just like, okay. This is like, I'm grateful for it because nothing else could possibly be worse at this point in time. And then something weird happened with the anesthesiologist's, like, the drugs that they were giving me. I don't know if he purposely put in a sedative or if
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
That's just standard practice. Yeah.
Speaker 2
That's pretty standard.
Speaker 3
I started to, like, lose consciousness. Mhmm.
Speaker 2
And I,
Speaker 3
like, told my husband, like, you gotta take him. Like, I can't even like, I'm not even here. I don't know what's happening right now. I started losing consciousness, and I remember thinking, like, is this what dying feels like? Because I was like, people die. I just signed the paperwork and said I could die. Like,
Speaker 2
am I dying right now?
Speaker 3
Am I, like, just aren't telling me? Like, are they trying to save my life, and I don't even know? I have no idea what's happening in here.
Speaker 2
They don't like you asking for skin to skin, Amelia. Yeah. They don't like you making a request while they're trying to do their job.
Speaker 3
I didn't even think about it that way. That they probably did it on purpose because of that. I haven't never even processed that until now. You're right, though. That's
Speaker 2
absolutely I don't know what happened in your OR, but as someone who has seen
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 2
A shit ton of surgeries, the sedative it depends on the anesthesiologist. Some, it's just what they do. But I have rarely seen an anesthesiologist tell the mother on the table, now I'm going to put you to sleep. They just do it. And, of course, I've seen it be used as a, you know, they might not see it as a punishment, but I would call it a punishment. And and the more demanding and the more, you know, annoying the the patient is, yeah, shut them up. Of course.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. That never occurred to me until now, and I'm sure that that was a large part of it. It was a a male anesthesiologist for whatever that's worth also.
Speaker 2
So They're they're all they're all groomed the same. Yeah. They're all just drug pushers.
Speaker 3
And I remember asking him, like, I, like, losing consciousness. Is that normal? And he was just like, yeah. Yeah. You're fine. Ugh. K. And so I don't really remember very much after that until, like, we moved to back to the labor and delivery room, which was also the recovery room at that particular hospital, I think.
Speaker 2
You know, like, what do you wanna say around how that shapes you, leaves you, and then how does this second surgery come to be?
Speaker 3
Yeah. I after he was born, I I don't even feel like I was, like, mentally there for, like, a really long time afterwards. Like, looking back on it, obviously, I was there and living life, going through motions and taking care of my baby and all of that. But I think it was the very first time that I had really been faced with how my orientation to fear running my life had almost killed us. And it took me a lot of time to really process that. And I don't even think that I, like, fully processed it until after my second c section and after it happened again, but in a different way.
Speaker 2
Ugh. So old is your oldest now?
Speaker 3
He's six.
Speaker 2
Okay. So this all unfolds in a pretty short amount of time.
Speaker 3
Yeah. All my kids are just, like, about two years apart.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Wow.
Speaker 3
One way or the other.
Speaker 2
So okay. So in the wake of this first birth, are you like like, do you get hip to what a scam the whole thing is, or are you, like like, where where are you? And then, yeah, take us into the second baby.
Speaker 3
Yeah. I because I had, like, done a little bit of natural birth research the first time, I feel like I definitely was, like, unpacking absolutely everything afterwards in, like, the context of different birth stories. I had started to listen to, evidence based birth or something like that as, like, a podcast or some something like that. It was, like, a podcast by, like, doctors, obese. They did, like, a lot of interviews with medical midwives. Then I remember listening to an episode and them talking about how low fluid was not a reason to induce. And then I was just like, what the what the heck? And so I decided when we decided to get pregnant again with my second that I was gonna have a midwife. And I didn't know anything about any type of underground midwifery at that time at all. I was still, you know, somewhat in the medical model. And we interviewed one midwife. And I felt, like, really well aligned with them at first, and so we decided to hire them. And during that pregnancy and while working with those midwives was when I first started listening to Freebird Society podcast. And I just, like, absorbed absolutely as much of it as possible. And by the time that I was, like, thirty six weeks and still working with the medical midwives, I was starting to really feel like I didn't want them there, and I really felt the call to free birth that time. But because I had had a c section already and because I was still very much enmeshed in, like, messy relationship dynamics with my family members who didn't agree with all of that and were really afraid for me. Like, my aunt is is a doctor, and she sent me, like, the risks of having a VBAC, like, statistically, like an email. Yeah.
Speaker 2
And I ended up the risks of having a second freaking surgery. No one talks about that.
Speaker 3
No. Not considered at all at all by anybody that I was talking to at the time. And I had to set a really firm boundary with her that I was not talking to anybody besides my medical providers about any of it, which was probably one of the first times that I really had, like, been super clear with one of those family members on a boundary for protecting my space and my family external to the larger family. And so, eventually, I was, like, almost forty one weeks, and I was, like, feeling sensations a little bit here and there Every, like, night leading up to when I went into labor, we'd set up, like, the birth tub and, like, obviously not filled it, but it was sitting in my room and it was ready because I really wanted to try to have water birth with these midwives. I also had a doula. So it was a team of midwives, two women. And then my doula was the team that I had prepared to walk me through this next birth.
Speaker 2
Which is, like, what, a six thousand dollar investment?
Speaker 3
Yeah. It was right about there. Mhmm. And that was a large part of the reason why I didn't decide to fire them when I was suspecting that they were not really in alignment with my choices. That sucks. Because in those last weeks, of course, they started to take back some of the stuff that they said. I told them that I didn't want any monitoring, that I did not want any cervical checks, that I didn't even wanna be asked to have a cervical check because I knew that, like, in labor, I was that was gonna throw me off. Like and I would want it because, of course, when you're in labor and you're riding every sensation and it's getting intense, you, like, want to know where you're at. But But that's not how it works.
Speaker 2
Right. And, like, this is an interesting point here because I know there's a lot of smoke and mirrors with these medical agents, but, like, also you know, I don't mean to sound whatever, like, insensitive, but, like, you're also asking you're you're, like, ask what's the quote everyone says? It's, like, asking for an organic filet mignon at McDonald's or whatever the thing is. Like, you're you're asking them to not do their job. And what gets complicated in that is everyone is on different pages when you do that. Right? Because they might be lying and being yes women, which, you know, medical midwives are famous for. So everyone has their part here. You know? But, like, what gets really fucked up is when you, as the new mom who's just trying to find the right way, is expressing these desires about how she wants to be treated. And when the medical midwife is like, yeah, honey. Whatever you want. You're the leader. You're the boss. You don't even realize how much you're barking up the wrong tree because they're con women.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Absolutely. And they totally totally did the the bait and switch that I mean, I've heard countless amounts of stories of that happening to women now with medical midwives. But, yeah, they were like, okay. You know, we'll try. We'll do our best. And sure
Speaker 2
We'll try not to give you a vaginal exam. That's disgusting.
Speaker 3
I know. And, of course, like, in retrospect, none of it makes any sense to me now. It's like, that was just ridiculous. But I went into labor. The it was, like, around two AM. I started to, like, wake up and couldn't go back to sleep with definite sensations. It was the day before the summer solstice. My second born is a summer solstice baby. And I was super nervous because it was my first time going to lay into labor on my own. And by, like, six AM, I had, like, woken up my husband and been like, this is definitely happening. Should we call them? Like, who are we calling right now? Are we gonna call the doula? Are we gonna call the midwives? When? And so we decided to call all of them at, like, six AM and just, like, tell them that it was definitely happening and at least give them a heads up. And the midwives, you know, basically, were like, oh, you've only been laboring for five hours? Call us later. And hung up because it was six AM, and they had their own kids and their own families and their own lives to think about. And if, you know, it wasn't happening immediately, they weren't really interested in hearing about it, which was also I remember finding that kinda startling because I expected these women to care about me being in labor.
Speaker 2
It's as if that's what you hired them for.
Speaker 3
Yeah. And they clearly didn't unless it was imminent. So my doula came over couple of hours later, and we just labored around the house. And I walked up and down the street a little bit, which felt more private to me at the time than being in my house with people watching me. Yeah. Even just my doula, I liked her a lot. And we still talk, and I still really, like, felt like her presence was very supportive external to the midwives. But, eventually, the midwives showed up, and it was the two of them. And one of them had a four month old baby who she told me was gonna be present Woah. At the birth. And I felt guilty. Like, you know, I'm a mom. Like, how how could I tell you? Like, I don't understand that your breastfeeding baby needs to be there because you'll be there for however long. And, like, I just was like, yeah. Yeah. That's reasonable. And I didn't wanna say anything to her, so I just sort of acted like that was normal. And she also brought her teenage daughter to help her watch the baby, which she did not tell me was going to be happening. So when they showed up, and my house was fairly small at the time, they took over my entire living room. It was two three adult women, my two midwives and my doula, her teenage daughter, and her four month old baby
Speaker 2
Wow.
Speaker 3
All, like, literally occupying the entire shared space of, like, the whole house. And I just, like, went and hid in my room. Like, I didn't know what else to do. I was so overwhelmed. And her teenage daughter is, like, watching me labor naked. I'm, like, don't even know this girl at all. It was so awkward and uncomfortable and totally threw me off because, of course, like, of course, that would throw you off. And I was so anxious already, and I was so nauseous during that labor because I was so anxious. And I just, like, literally went and hid in my bedroom and tried to pretend that nobody was there, but I could hear everybody out there. And at some point in the day, my, older son, who was just two at the time, like, just started to lose lose it. And I I think it was really just being thrown off by all the people in our house that he didn't know. And my husband, like, didn't know what to do anymore because he was trying to be with me, and the baby was totally freaking out, totally freaking out. And I just ended up calling my mother. I didn't even want her to know I was in labor that time because I was afraid she was just gonna show up at my house. And he, thankfully, my husband, thankfully, set a very clear expectation for her to come, and he was gonna bring my son out to her. Mhmm. And she was gonna bring him to her house. And so that happened at some point in the day, which I really needed to happen because his totally losing it was, like, very much affecting my energy as, of course, it would.
Speaker 2
You'd also think with that many adults, like, the doula would have taken him outside and taken him on a nature walk and gotten his shit together.
Speaker 3
But Yeah.
Speaker 2
Just a real great team here.
Speaker 3
So yeah. Basically, eventually, what happened was, they asked to check me even though I didn't want cervical checks at all. I was six centimeters, and she told me that his head was crooked, was engaging crooked. And so that brought me to my first birth because that's what they told me. Like, that's why my first baby's heart rate went out in my first birth. That's what
Speaker 2
they said. It's not.
Speaker 3
Should have. No. So I was like, oh, no. It's happening again. And I just, like, started spiraling again. Oh, no. It's happening again. This is just my body. It's just the way that I carry my babies. It's just it's gotta be something wrong with my anatomy, and it's just the way that it's gonna be. And I ended up very exhausted and wasn't making it past six centimeters and decided to go to the hospital for an epidural. And, really, in my mind, I was like, I just need to get the f out of here because I cannot be with these people anymore, and I don't even know what to do. Like, I feel like I can't ask them to leave, and I just, like, don't even know what to do. So we went to the hospital. I got an epidural. As soon as they did a cervical check after the epidural, I was ten centimeters. Like, in the literal time that I drove to the hospital, just being away from all of them, I had progressed almost all the way at that point, but I had already brought myself to the hospital. So it was kinda what it was. And they did coach pushing again. This time, it was a different hospital because the midwives told me to go to a hospital that was, like, more accepting of home birth transfers. Like, they were less likely to be judgmental according to the other people that they had worked with. Mhmm. So it was a different hospital. And they were somewhat nicer, and I feel like their practices were, like, a little more mother baby centered. But, you know, it's still, like, it's still grasping at straws. So, like, it's still crumbs that they're feeding you.
Speaker 2
But you also had a c section.
Speaker 3
Yeah. So I pushed for three hours, and nothing happened. And he didn't descend at all. And they were like, okay. You tried. Tying
Speaker 2
around. There's nothing mother baby centered about that. That is a total, like, bullshit concept.
Speaker 3
Just more smoke and mirrors kind of stuff. Like, you think that that's what you're getting, but you're not.
Speaker 2
So after three hours, someone called it.
Speaker 3
And Yeah. The doctor came in, and they were just like, he hasn't moved at all. He's, like, still at whatever zero position, and you've pushed for three hours, and he hasn't changed position at all. So it's just you you tried. Nice trying, but it's time for another c section, which was really hard. Really, really, really hard to face and accept. Yeah. And at the same time, I feel like I had already, like, known that that was what I was going to the hospital for. In my own, like, internal monologue, I was just like, that's what's that's what I'm here for. Like, I'm I'm done. I had checked out mentally. Before I had gone into the hospital, like, that was already my last, like, alright. Let's just go and have surgery. And I went through the motions of the rest of it because I just you know, I wanted to try, but I knew I was there for another c section Wow. Which is what ended up happening. And it was different and also very similar. He was a much bigger baby. My first son was six pounds fifteen ounces, and I was like, all of you told me he was gonna be big, and I was post dates and blah blah blah, and you were wrong. Clearly, he wasn't ready, like I said. My second son was nine pounds, and so, of course, they were all like, well, that's why he didn't come out. That's why he didn't come down. Blah blah blah blah. Really. Yeah. And I was like, okay. Whatever.
Speaker 2
I wonder what it feels like to lie so much.
Speaker 3
I wonder if they think that they are sometimes. No. I don't even I don't.
Speaker 2
No. I don't think it's like they're so they're so caught up in the indoctrination. It's just stuff you say. Yeah. But it's lies. It's all lies. It's just so wild. Okay. So
Speaker 3
I mean, I'm sure they see nine pound babies born all the time. Right? Okay. Exactly. So, like, obviously, it's not just me.
Speaker 2
Wow. Okay. So is this the time
Speaker 3
when do you take RBK?
Speaker 2
It's before your first free birth.
Speaker 3
The following year. Yeah. So you was born in two thousand nineteen in the summer, and then actually, maybe two years after that.
Speaker 2
But you you have your third baby after RBK. Yes. Right?
Speaker 3
I got pregnant with him right at the end of RBK because you remember during RBK, I had a miscarriage.
Speaker 2
Yes.
Speaker 3
I had an early loss.
Speaker 2
Yes. I do remember.
Speaker 3
And that I consider my first rebirth because it was really like like, I felt like that spirit baby came to me as, like, the testing ground.
Speaker 2
Totally.
Speaker 3
And I was like, okay. This is it. Am I gonna Mhmm. Practice what I preach now, or am I still orienting from fear? And that was when I, like, really knew, like, no. I do trust my body. And it did happen. I had an early pregnancy loss physiologically at home. No complications. Nothing to be scared of. And I was like, my body is not broken. This is my sign. This is, you know, from the universe, my sign telling me that it's not something wrong with me. And that really gave me a lot of confidence.
Speaker 2
Because, of course, if you wanted to see a miscarriage as an expression of you being broken, if that's what the script you're looking to prove, you could have. Right? But because of your deep work and your, like, sincere curiosity about how to do it differently, you were willing to take on a different script when you experience that, which is just really important, I think, for everyone listening as a reminder. Like, we we believe we we see what we believe. Right? Like, getting our thoughts right and being open to something different is the discipline. Because otherwise, we're just, like, repeating scripts unconsciously constantly.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Absolutely. And so after that, I really I I was just, like, a totally different person after that. I had had multiple years of listening to free birth stories, thanks to your fantastic podcast. And I had gone through RBK and, like, fully unpacked everything that had happened before and just, like, really looked at how all of my choices had been just orienting from, you know, things that I was afraid of and things that I felt guilty about not doing also and, like, wanting to be seen as, like, credible and intelligent. And feeling like making alternative choices, like, meant that people would think that I wasn't smart anymore. Interesting. Yeah. And so I got pregnant again the first cycle after my, like, miscarriage had fully completed, which was, like, several months afterwards, but right at the end of RBK. And I was, like, five weeks pregnant that summer when I came to matriarch rising. Five weeks pregnant at that point, like, right right at the beginning. And that pregnancy was, like, so different. I I was fully committed to having a wild pregnancy. I was not going to be going back into the system. I knew that they didn't have anything that I wanted there anymore. I had had an experience with medical midwives. I knew that they didn't have anything that I wanted either. And it was, like, the most relaxing, calming like, that's honestly, like, my my favorite part of choosing wild pregnancies is just, like, you just live life. There's nothing to be like there's no fear of being dripped into your brain by all these people, and there's no anxiety because you're testing all these things. And it's just life. And then you have a baby, and that's the best thing about it to
Speaker 2
me. Yeah.
Speaker 3
But fast forwarding to his birth after a really, really normal, super uncomplicated pregnancy. I went into labor again at two AM. Actually, that's the yeah. It's the same time I went into labor this time too. It's always at two AM. I just, like, wake up, and I'm clearly having contractions. And I had created, like, a little earth cave in my bathroom. I had put, like, a bed in because it was big enough to have a bed in the bathroom.
Speaker 2
Fun.
Speaker 3
And I wanted to, like, not have to, like, walk from the bathroom to, like, my bed and all of that. And I had my, you know, my affirmation cards that I got from your site, like, strung up on little strings everywhere, and it was really sweet. And so I I just labored in my cave. I did my thing, and it was really calm. And it feel like built an intensity, like, pretty steadily. And mostly, I, like, kneeled on the bed that I had set up or, like, switched from there to, like, the toilet because that was where I was most comfortable to, like, really relax and, like, let all my muscles just go so that I didn't have to worry about making a mess. It's always, like, in the back of my mind making a mess. Everywhere, like, dripping stuff everywhere is, like, always, like, for some reason, mess making is always in the back of my mind during labor. But
Speaker 2
Just birth or, like, in general in your life?
Speaker 3
Yeah. I guess it definitely comes up in other places in life, but I feel like birth is particularly messy, I guess. So it comes up more can be because it wasn't for this last time. But, yeah, at some point, I, like, gagged and was like, is that transition? Maybe. And I was like, you know, oftentimes, throwing up is associated with with, like, being fully dilated, and that was curious. So I was like, oh, I think I'm getting somewhere. And then it started the sensations really started to switch to really bearing down, and I really hated that feeling. It was so weird. Like, throwing up in reverse. So bizarre. Right. I was just like, oh, I'm so sorry. About, like,
Speaker 2
loving that stage. I'm like, really?
Speaker 3
That's that's, like, the hardest part for me. I could do early labor for, like, ever, I feel like. Oh, like, forever. It wouldn't bother me. As soon as the bearing down part starts, I'm like, oh god. Please. I'm just done with this. But I wasn't tracking time, like, at all. I was just in my zone. I had music on, and I had bearings down sensations pushing contractions for, like, a while. I know it was at least a few hours, but I wasn't really paying attention. And I was just vocalizing through them, and my husband was, like, in and out. At some point, it was morning time, and so the kids woke up and he had to go take care of them and kept coming back to check on me. And at some point, I started really feeling a lot of pressure. And I was like, this is what people talk about because I didn't feel any of that. Like, even when I was pushing with my second son, I I had the epidural, so I didn't feel anything.
Speaker 2
Not just that, but both times, because this is how it goes, they were having you push before you were actually ready to push. You know, in the system, ten centimeters is time to push, which is so dumb and not at all how birth actually works.
Speaker 3
No. So it was really nice to kind of, like, ease into that. And, like like, it was really gradual and gradually increased. And when I really started feeling like that, oh, no. My going to poop feeling, I decided to reach in, and I felt my sac bulging. And then as I, like, felt around with it, it burst, like, all over my hand. Yep. I was like, that was cool. And then I felt his head after that. And I remember a a friend of mine had told me her, she had birthed with an RBK and had told me that, like, that feeling of, like, feeling the baby's head and, like, how she still, like, rubs that spot on her baby's head, like, all the time and remembers his birth. And I thought of that in that moment and was like, I'm gonna remember this.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 3
I'm gonna remember this forever. And a few more pushing contractions, and he was crowning. And I was so ready for it to be done at that point because that sensation was extremely intense for me. Extremely intense. And I do remember, like you said, like, someone in love that, and I cannot understand.
Speaker 2
Both times so far, I've, like, begged my husband, like, can't you just grab them? Can't you just do something? Just get them out.
Speaker 3
Like, I don't understand how that's pleasurable.
Speaker 2
Awesome. But I I do not either. Hey. Maybe someday.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Definitely. I kinda hoped that it would be this next time. It still wasn't really. But
Speaker 2
I think we'd have to, like, do more than just hope. Yeah. Probably. I don't I don't know what it is. Apparently, Yolanda does.
Speaker 3
So, yeah, he he crowned, and then I I pushed with my body because I was like, I'm over this. And his head came all the way out, and I was like, can you see him? To my husband. And he was like, I see him. And then the next push, his whole body came out with, like, a huge gush of blood. And, like, at the same time, my older kids, like, came around the corner and peeked into the bathroom. And my older my oldest son was like, no to the blood and wouldn't come in the room. And I was like, it's okay. Everything is normal. This is okay. Like, mommy's is fine. And my second oldest was all about it. Came right in. Like, wanted to see the baby. Did not care about any of it. And I laid down and then, like, immediately felt more pressure, sat back up again, and, like, put a tiny bit of traction on the cord, and present a slit right out, which I was super nervous about because I had all these stories about scar tissue from c sections and excessive bleeding and postpartum hemorrhage. And I made sure that I had shepherd's purse and angelica tincture, like, just in case. I didn't end up using anything except Chuck's pads. And he was here. And he was great. And he was perfect. And it was kinda crazy. I just, you know, had a baby, and it was a regular day. And there was no chaos and there was no trauma and there was no, you know, sabotage and all of that. So fast forwarding again because I wanna tell the whole other story even though it's not not very long. Mhmm. But I was a totally different person again after that birth
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
And went into team. Of course. Went into my second wild pregnancy just like again, it's it's just life. It's just normal. It's just every single day. It's just normal family life, and it's kinda perfect. Amazing to just have absolutely no external stress and pressure put on you when you're pregnant. I think that people think that pregnancy is inherently a stressful time, and, like, that's I really feel personally that that has so much more to do with who you're seeing for your pregnancy than inherent to the state of pregnancy. But at the end of this most recent pregnancy, I was convinced that, of course, all my other babies came after, you know, forty weeks around forty one weeks. So I was like, it's thirty nine weeks. I I don't have to think about this. I'm just gonna do, like, my prepping stuff. Like, I'm gonna have some food in the freezer and, you know, whatever. Definitely have two more weeks. And then one night in the middle of the night, I, like, woke up with this weird pressure, and it didn't feel like cramping or, like, contractions at all. It was just like when baby's head really presses, like, hard against your pubic bone, that's what it felt like. And for some reason, I, like, got it in my brain that this was, like, gas pain. Like, it felt kinda like being constipated, I guess. So I was just like, I don't know. I'm I'm uncomfortable. I this must be gas pain. It's I like, I'm not gonna think about it. I was up, and I went to the bathroom. And so, basically, I ended up
Speaker 2
But also in your mind, it can't be the it's it it's not labor even
Speaker 3
though totally like, I'm thirty nine weeks. There's no way. There's no way.
Speaker 2
It's funny how we just, like, make stuff up.
Speaker 3
Yeah. And, honestly, I'm kind of grateful for that now because I feel like it gave me, like, space in my mind to experience it differently. Mhmm.
Speaker 0
Because I
Speaker 3
feel like, you know, when you know, like, this is labor, and these are definitely contractions. Sometimes where you are in your brain, like, really makes it a lot more uncomfortable, like, sooner because you're just focusing on it. Hyper focused on, like, every single contraction with my, like, previous labors. And I feel like that made it way more uncomfortable Mhmm. And way more painful in the end. And so this time, like, I from, like, two AM to, like, six AM, I just kept going back and forth to the bathroom with this, like, weird pressure that kept coming and going. And I was like, I don't know what this is. I guess I'm just hoping that, like, eventually, I go to the bathroom and it goes away. And I can go to sleep because I'm tired, and I'm thirty nine weeks. And, like, I don't wanna be up anymore. And then by six o'clock, I was like, it's not going away. I'm exhausted. And I went and woke up my husband who was in our toddler's bedroom because he was up all night that night. He must have felt something. He must have felt that energetic shift. And I had a sensation in the bedroom when I was waking up my husband, and I had to, like, kneel on the floor for, like, the first time. And I was like, I don't know what's happening. Like, I I don't think this is labor. I don't it can't be labor. It doesn't feel anything like that. And I just, like, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. And he was like, I think you're in labor. Like, you're kneeling on the floor having a contract.
Speaker 2
Else do you do this? Yeah.
Speaker 3
He was like, I'm pretty sure you're in labor. It's okay. But nothing's happening. Like, I don't I haven't lost a mucus plug. Like, nothing's happening. And so we went into the bathroom, and I, like, had a couple more of these, like, pressure sensations while I was sitting on the toilet. And they were definitely getting a little more intense. But, like, still, I would describe it as moderately uncomfortable. Still, like, absolutely nothing like anything I'd felt before. And then at some point, I ended up wiping because I was checking a lot because I was like, I don't know what's happening anymore. I need a sign. Give me a sign. And there was, like, a tiny bit of, like, ink discharge on the toilet paper. And I was like, it's really something. Something's happening. But, of course, I thought it was, like, super early still because it wasn't intense at all.
Speaker 2
Oh my god. Okay. Give us the time stamp of when is it actually
Speaker 3
So that was, like, six zero five AM. And then when the baby born? Gone and got him. Six forty five AM. Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy. So he literally, like, walked out of the room because one of the kids woke up. And I, like, was like, okay. I'm in labor. Grab a check's pad. Put it on the floor. Kneel over it. The next sensation, still very bearable, my water burst all over Chuck's pad. And I was like, oh, like, this is definitely happening. We're really having a baby right now. Woah. And he came back in, and I was like, my water just broke. And he was like, okay. Like, what do you wanna do? And I was we had bought a birth tub this time because I really had, like, a water birth in my mind this time because I haven't I haven't had the chance to do it, and I really wanted to. And he was like, should I set up the tub? And I was like, no. Fill the regular bathtub. Like, I was like, there's no way. We don't have time for that. So he starts filling the bathtub. I get in the bathtub. A few more sensations while I'm, like, crouched there. He has to leave again because the toddler wakes up, and he comes back. And I literally, in one sensation, felt, like, the baby's head all the way up and then all the way almost to crowning. And I was like,
Speaker 2
oh my god.
Speaker 3
What's happening right now? Crazy. What is happening right now? My water broke twelve minutes before that. Five seconds. Literally, it was crazy. And I was like, I can feel his head. And I was like, do you wanna feel it? And he was like, yeah. So he felt like the top of the baby's head that time. Cute. And then he had to leave again because one of the kids needed him.
Speaker 2
Whatever. You're fine.
Speaker 3
And that was really yeah. He was, like, not at all expecting that this was about to happen. He was thinking, it's definitely I've got time. Mhmm. So he leaves. And on the next sensation, I'm like, oh, no. Like, this is crowning. So I'm by myself in the bathtub. I, like, actively, like, stopped myself. I, like, paused for a minute and, like, really, like, took a deep breath and recentered because that moment with my previous song, like, was just so intense, and I, like, pushed through it. And I definitely, like, tore a tiny bit just I mean, I could have obviously torn just because, you know, tearing happens. But I felt like I pushed too hard because I wanted that crowning sensation to be over. And so this time, I was like, breathe. Take a minute. Breathe. I know you hate how this feels, but, like, he's really coming out right now. And I paused, and then I worked with the next pushing contraction, and his head came out. And there was, like, a very brief pause, not even like, the contraction didn't finish. It was like a it was kinda like they were just back to back. Like, there was no actual, like, break. It was just like a a pause. And then I felt it again, and I pushed the rest of his body out. And he, like, slid right into my hands in the water.
Speaker 0
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
And I brought him up, and I called him, and I looked. And he had so much vernix, so much vernix. And I was like, oh my gosh. Like, I don't feel like any of them have had I mean, the first two was wiped off. I didn't know if they had a lot of vernix or not.
Speaker 2
But he was a couple weeks younger.
Speaker 3
Yeah. And I was just like, oh my god. He's, like, covered in burnings. I've never seen this before. Yeah. And he immediately, like, made some noise. Didn't cry too hard, but he was obviously well. He was great.
Speaker 2
Your fourth boy.
Speaker 3
My fourth. And then I Yeah. And then I checked to make sure it was definitely another boy, and it was.
Speaker 2
That's wild.
Speaker 3
I mean, my husband comes around the door the corner and peeks around the door. And, like, his face was just like, what just happened? Wow. He's like, he's here. Wow. And he immediately, like, grabbed the phone and went to take pictures because last time, we didn't get a lot of, like, nice pictures, pictures, and I really wanted nice pictures this time. It's probably our last baby.
Speaker 2
Wow. Yeah. Right.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Right.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Right.
Speaker 3
But it was good. He took pictures when I wanted him to, And we also had to use that to figure out when he was born because I was by myself, and I didn't know what the heck was happening. So I didn't God. Know the time. But, yeah, it was
Speaker 2
like, your articulation of this fur that first birth versus this one. You know? I was just like, wow. What a what an what a arc
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 2
To go through.
Speaker 3
Yeah. It feels, I mean, obviously, momentous because I feel like I'm not just a different person. I feel like I'm, like, four different people on the journey. Imagine
Speaker 2
imagine if you had just kept having c sections, like, who you would be.
Speaker 3
I know.
Speaker 2
I know. That's the norm. Especially after a second c section, you know, a lot of medical providers don't touch a VBAC with a third.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 2
It's just, like, such a sentence in obstetrics and what a completely different, like, mother you would be if you didn't get to learn. I don't even know if learn's the right word. Like, you just get to experience Mhmm. What birth is.
Speaker 3
Yeah. And the journey to, like, trusting myself, like, so implicitly, which I never I never would have gotten had I just continued to say, okay. Scheduled c sections from now on. And it's not like it wasn't tempting. Like, it was absolutely tempting because, you know, it was it's scary. Birth is huge. It's huge. No matter what, it's huge. And so I thought about it, and I just knew it was never it was never gonna be the right path for me. I knew that I had to have these experiences. I wanted to experience birth. Yeah. I wanted to feel birth because I felt like I hadn't birthed when I had c c sections. And I was just like, I need exactly.
Speaker 2
That's true.
Speaker 3
Absolutely. And that's a hundred percent how I feel. That's, like, not birth. But yeah.
Speaker 2
I mean, I guess yeah. That's, like, a interesting choice of words because it's, like, it's not it's not biological birth, but it is a birth experience. Right? Like, it is your son's birth story. So it is a birth. I think sister calls it birth by knife. It's like, of course, it's a birth experience, but it's not natural birth.
Speaker 3
Yeah. And it didn't feel like it to me for sure.
Speaker 2
Of course.
Speaker 3
It didn't feel like it.
Speaker 2
And terrible. And it's so painful, like, that it that it was completely just being a victim of the system and not knowing, you know, none not being any none the wiser or whatever the expression is. It's not like most like, almost all surgical stories. You know? It's not it wasn't necessary. It wasn't lifesaving. It wasn't any of that. Mhmm. It was just, like, the assembly line because this is what happens.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 2
The last thing I I wanna ask you is just because we didn't really get to it in between the second surgery and then free birth. And, like, I know you found the podcast and all of that, but, like, what is there anything you wanna articulate about how you knew you were going to do it this way that then you go on to do? And I and I understand once you've done it, it's like this is just who you are. It's you know, I've I've I've thought this a lot lately, and it's, like, taken out of context, it could sound really insensitive. And then, obviously, that's not how I mean it, but, like, it's true that an embodied mother doesn't surrender herself and her child to institutions. You just don't once you have self authority and autonomy and and embodiment. Anyway, but, like so what happens for you is I think for some for a lot of c section moms turn f back, it's like there's a gift in it of being like, I've seen what they have to offer, and it's evil. You know? Like, I don't Yeah. I don't want that. It's no longer tempting. Whereas a woman who has, like, a fine ish birth, it can stay kinda tempting, but having, you know, repeat c sections is like, fuck. But But, anyway, yeah, just anything you wanna say about really kicking it into this this other gear that's like, yeah. I'm gonna do something that almost no one does that's incredibly rogue, incredibly fringe, and yet it's so obvious that that's what you'll do.
Speaker 3
Yeah. I think for me, the biggest thing besides just learning more and realizing how absolutely unnecessary everything that I had experienced in the medical system was, was just that I knew that I could never, for me personally, I could never surrender to that level of embodiment that birth requires with people observing me.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 3
And so I could tell that all of the additional energy of everybody that had been present in the first and second, you know, births was really, like, it just totally threw me off. Like, I could feel it, like, you know, attaching to my energy field, honestly. And I knew that if I was ever gonna have a chance, if I was ever gonna have even a little bit of a chance to have a vaginal birth, I needed to do it alone. It was just the only way that I knew that I could get there myself for a lot of reasons. Because of, like, people pleasing programming and and conditioning and relationship dynamics with authority figures being really complicated for me. I knew that I wouldn't I would always mentally position anybody who was, like, a birth expert in my space as, like, an authority. And I knew that I would wanna please them, and I knew that I would sacrifice what I wanted to do so. And I learned that from the two experiences that I had had. It was, like, no matter how much information I had brought into it, I knew Yeah. That that was just, like, the information wasn't gonna stop those patterns from playing out. Mhmm. And I had to just, like, go all the way. And that's kind of how I am as a person. Go all the way. Kind of, like, zero or a hundred.
Speaker 2
Well, you tried the other ways.
Speaker 3
And I did. And I, like, gave it a good shot. Right? I tried the medical midwife. I I I did the thing.
Speaker 2
And it still didn't work. Brings her children.
Speaker 3
Yeah. And I was just like, I just was never going to put myself in a position where I was gonna let somebody else sabotage me again. Yeah. And I knew that I had chosen that. Like, it I wasn't just a victim to the system. I was, and, also, I chose it. And I knew I wasn't in alignment with it, and I could feel that it wasn't right for me. And I was That's
Speaker 1
yeah.
Speaker 2
That's the part that I think is really important because I don't think it's totally fair to say, like, you chose the entirety of your experience because it you didn't totally understand what you were agreeing to, you know, and you didn't this it gets a little tricky with the victim dynamics because it is a predatory system. It is. And, also, that piece that you just said around, like, the the the the signposts on your journey where you betrayed yourself, that's what you can really own and explore and take responsibility for and do differently. And, of course, that leads you to sovereign birth and and and a ton of other stuff in your life. And I think that's that's an important and kind of a nuanced, like, arena. Right? Because I see a lot of women think they're taking responsibility for their horrific abusive births. But the you know what I mean? Like, no. No. You don't take responsibility for your rape.
Speaker 3
Of course not. Well right? But it's the same. Yeah.
Speaker 2
But you but you can if you choose to. There's no obligation to do this, but you can look at where you ignored your red flags, where you ignored, where something felt uneasy and you didn't tend to it. Like, yes. For sure. That's all within our within our like, what is ours? You know, it's kind of a complicated conversation, but I do think it's an interesting difference.
Speaker 3
Yeah. And that's definitely, like that was the commitment that I feel like I made to myself between my second c section and my and my free birth was Yeah. I am not going to betray myself again. Mhmm. I know what that feels like. I know where it gets me, and I'm not doing it anymore. I am not willing to do that anymore. I'm gonna trust myself even if it seems crazy because I know it's right for me. Yeah. And it just is what it is.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Suck it.
Speaker 3
And where that's taken me I mean, where that's taken me is, like
Speaker 2
It's liberation, man.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Absolutely. I wouldn't change it for anything.
Speaker 2
Thank you so much. I love this story.
Speaker 3
Thank you for hosting me.
Speaker 2
I hope you enjoyed the show today. You can support this podcast by donating to it on free birth society dot com and leaving an awesome review on whatever platform you listen on. The more reviews, the more visibility the show gets, so let's spread the word of Sovereign Birth. We've always got a lot going on at Free Birth Society, and you can find out about all of it at free birth society dot com, at free birth society on Instagram, and opt in to my newsletter below in the show notes. We offer courses on free birth, authentic midwifery, and the blood mysteries, as well as one on one coaching, in person retreats, and, of course, our annual women's festival. Our exclusive vetted private membership is definitely something to check out if you're looking for a community of wise sisters. Together, we rise. We must speak our stories, claim our lives, and support one another. This is the living revolution, and I am so grateful to be in it with all of you. I'll leave you with our epic free birth society theme song, Wild Woman by Aruba Red.
Speaker 4
I honor you for the wisdom you held, the ancient traditions eons upon light Eons upon light beams of survival, withstanding the eradication of our power by design. I will not allow the separation of our young to be forced upon me. My sisters will no longer birth in captivity. The picket line redefined from burning our wild women to paralyzing us and drugging out babes. Strapped down in a clinical white bed, drying up the milk from our breasts, keep your needles. My My family will never again be doomed to chase those dragons or your poison. We reject your fear. We choose love. Everything with intention. Death, ascension. I will fly and bring her back from the star.
