00:00:06:00 - 00:00:41:04
Unknown
Into the wild and go into the wild, I am. It's been a while. Freedom, child, since I left my roots back home into I don't go into the wild I had. It's been a wild freedom child since I left my roots back home. Welcome to the Free Birth Society podcast. This is a radical space for women who are ready to celebrate their autonomous choices in birth, motherhood and beyond.
00:00:41:06 - 00:01:01:00
Unknown
Together, we'll learn about wild birth through personal narrative. We'll explore the politics of birth and will analyze everything that relates to our lives as women. From a feminist perspective, here's your host, Emilee Saldaya. Wild freedom check.
00:01:01:02 - 00:01:43:10
Unknown
Saints have left my room bare home. Welcome to the show, Sky. Thank you. Emilee. You know, I was just deleting a bunch of stuff from my phone, and I just went through that trip. That LA trip when I actually met you. Many years ago. My little one was 2018, right? Yeah. 2019, maybe 2019, I think. Yeah. Thinking you're one of the few women in that group that I am still in contact with.
00:01:43:12 - 00:02:04:21
Unknown
You. You've been rolling with, with me, with, you know, I think from the beginning, which is so special. Yeah. I yeah, from the Facebook group that got shut down and then straight away shut it down. Yes. You got it down. Yeah. You're very wisely shut it down and. Yeah. Then you went to the membership and I jumped in.
00:02:04:21 - 00:02:26:21
Unknown
Yeah 2018. I love that. So this is in a way a long time coming. And you've lived a lot of life in these three years. A lot of life. So kick us off to a little bit about who you were before your first pregnancy, and what was your relationship like to the medical system, and what was your life like at that point?
00:02:26:21 - 00:02:55:04
Unknown
And then you'll just take us into your first pregnancy? When I got pregnant with my first, I was I was 31, just married my husband the year before, and I was crazy excited to be pregnant. I'd been really excited to be pregnant for a few years by that point. So the second my husband, I got married, we started trying and I got pregnant.
00:02:55:06 - 00:03:17:02
Unknown
And I had been like very passionate about birth actually for a long time, probably had a lifelong fascination with birth, which I think is due to my own birth story, but not just my own birth story, but the birth story of my older sister. And I kind of grew up with those two stories, and they were both very different.
00:03:17:04 - 00:03:42:06
Unknown
My mom's experience with my older sister was like a, you know, a classic early 1980s, you know, traumatizing hospital birth like, induced by the doctor on a Friday, obviously for his own convenience, but told it's because your baby will be too big if you go through the weekend. Obviously he was afraid he was going to give birth on the weekend and he was going to have his weekend interrupted.
00:03:42:06 - 00:04:07:16
Unknown
So she was induced on a Friday morning and she didn't want any drugs because she wanted to experience birth and experience labor. So she, you know, got through the whole birth, which was actually quite sure it was only five hours. And then right at the end without, you know, being told without being asked, she was given a full body and my sister was pulled out with high faucets, came out bruised.
00:04:07:16 - 00:04:27:22
Unknown
And, you know, my mom super traumatized and, you know, sitting there holding her baby for the first time and realizes that a nurse is injecting something into arm and she starts to feel like all woozy. And she's like, what are you doing? And the nurse is like, you've been through a lot. This is going to make you feel better.
00:04:27:22 - 00:04:53:22
Unknown
And my mom was so upset because she just gone through the whole birth with nothing, and now she's like, all out of it. And it was the last thing she wanted. So, what I think was kind of amazing about my mom is that she she came out of that experience and knew it was wrong. You know, even though that's how birth was at that time.
00:04:54:00 - 00:05:21:17
Unknown
She something in her was like, this is not right. And it didn't need to be like this, and I'm not going to do that again. So when she got pregnant with me a year later, she started researching. My mom is an incredible researcher. Even in the 80s, she was an amazing researcher, and she found the book Birth Without Violence by Frederick, the French obstetrician, and that she bought that book.
00:05:21:18 - 00:05:46:00
Unknown
And I grew up with that book, like on the bookshelf. And I used to take it out and look at all the photos. And if you're familiar with it, it's like it's mostly actually a photographic book. And there are these photos of babies born, you know, in the 70s in the traditional way, which is, you know, very bright lights, loud, violent, violently extracted, you know, held upside down and hit to make them cry.
00:05:46:00 - 00:06:16:00
Unknown
And, you know, so the book is like these photos of these babies born violently and then babies born by the Laboy method, which Frederick, you know, created, or he came up with this idea that babies are aware and sensitive at birth. What an idea. Revolutionary for the 70s. But. And that they should be born into a very calm, quiet, you know, warm, dimly lit environment.
00:06:16:00 - 00:06:35:23
Unknown
They shouldn't be separated from the mother. They don't need to be taken away for tests and weighing and violent rubbing and all the things that still happen to this day. So he wrote the book, The Boyer Method, though I can't handle it, I know, right? I can't handle it like men come in totally co-op birth. Fuck it all up.
00:06:36:00 - 00:06:46:18
Unknown
And then some other guy comes in and is like, what if we didn't fuck it up and we'll just call it, like, my last name? I'll name it after me. Yeah, yeah.
00:06:46:19 - 00:07:24:05
Unknown
But that's it. I'm grateful to the Boyer for, you know, his book and the part that it played in the whole, you know, it's a beautiful infant massage book to. Have you ever seen that one? No I haven't, no. Lovely. But. Yeah. So my mom was like, I, my baby will be born like this. And through the Nursing Mothers Association of Australia that she'd been connected to through my older sister, she found out about a doctor, a family practice doctor, still a man, but a lovely man who never induced women and just supported them and whatever their choices were.
00:07:24:07 - 00:07:53:23
Unknown
And so she chose him. And right at that time, this is 1982. A birth center opened in the Melbourne, Australia hospital where I was born, and I think my mum was, and my birth was one of the first that actually happened in this birth center, because there was an article written about my birth later. But yeah, so she hired the beautiful doctor, you know, was going to give birth in the birth center and with this, you know, method.
00:07:53:23 - 00:08:21:05
Unknown
And he was on board with all of that. So that's that's how it happened. And I had, you know, my mum said she labored at home and then she went into the hospital and then to the birth center. And I was born three hours later. Her mum was there, my dad was there, the doctor was there. And, yeah, she, I think I was about 41 weeks, but he said, I'll never induce you, you know, he's like, you don't see women walking around a year, you know, being pregnant for a year do.
00:08:21:05 - 00:08:41:17
Unknown
So no, I'm not ever going to induce you. Baby will come when they're ready. So yeah. 41 weeks I was born and I never cried when I was born. It was the dim lighting and, you know, the put into the the bath, which is just a wound temperature bath. It's part of the whole little method. And. Yeah. And I was never separated from her.
00:08:41:17 - 00:09:13:09
Unknown
She kept me in the bed for the one night that she was in hospital. And yeah, I had this like, you know, really beautiful nonviolent birth. And I grew up so with these two stories, right, of my sister's birth and my birth, and I was just always so fascinated by how different birth could be. And not just that, but then the impact that that birth would have on the type of person that that birth one would become.
00:09:13:09 - 00:09:36:16
Unknown
And, you know, I'm sure not. It's not just because of our birth, but my sister and I have just like, could not have been more different people and had more different lives. You know, she's tragically suffered with addiction and mental illness like a young teenager and still does to this day. And I've never struggled with those things.
00:09:36:16 - 00:10:08:23
Unknown
And of course, there are multiple factors that contribute, you know, there's what the soul is coming in with and so many other things. But I always have felt that the way that we were born had a huge impact on the different lives that we've led. So, yeah, that that was kind of like my childhood years. And then when I was about 21, the woman whose property I kept my horses on got pregnant and told me she was having a home birth.
00:10:09:01 - 00:10:31:04
Unknown
And I think it was the first time I'd ever heard of home birth. And it just, like, instantly captivated me. I was just like, wow, that's so cool. I want to do that one day. And she went on to have her baby at home and actually afterwards said to me like, oh, it was really hard and I actually wish I had been in the hospital and I probably should have been in the hospital.
00:10:31:04 - 00:10:59:12
Unknown
And but it didn't dissuade me. It was like, no, that's how I'm going to give birth one day. And then in my like mid, mid to late 20s, I read the book The Magical Child. I don't know if you ever read that by Joseph Chilton Pearce and this kind of, you know, it really rocked my world, mostly because it confirmed the thing that I had always wondered with the different birth experiences of my sister.
00:10:59:12 - 00:11:30:05
Unknown
It really confirmed the way that a being a soul comes into this world has a massive impact on the way, even the way that intelligence unfolds in that person. And the whole like first third of his book, is dedicated to just describing what happens in a typical hospital birth and all of the ways that that typical experience harms the unfoldment of the being and the soul.
00:11:30:07 - 00:12:02:03
Unknown
Yeah, I love that. Yeah. I would really recommend that everyone read that book because even if you're familiar with these ideas, it's just so you know, it's so beautifully written and so startling in its the revelation of like wow. And he actually talks about birth in lots of different cultures and how, you know, when birth happens in a less violent way or in a totally nonviolent way, the intelligence level of those babies and children is so much higher than babies born in trauma.
00:12:02:04 - 00:12:25:17
Unknown
They don't have a giant obstacle called capital T trauma to overcome. I mean, it's it's so obvious. Yeah. So you read this book, affirms all this inner knowing. And then that was kind of the ignition of, like, totally obsessed with birth. Like then I was just like, ordering every birth book I could and just, like, devouring them all.
00:12:25:17 - 00:12:48:18
Unknown
And I even did my doula training at that time. I was like, I want to be a doula. Maybe I'll even be a midwife. And I never actually ended up attending any births as a doula. But I, you know, I did the training and I just wanted, you know, every birth thing I could. And that was also when I obviously just became like, so excited to, you know, have children, give birth and experience for myself.
00:12:48:21 - 00:13:11:06
Unknown
So, you know, my husband just kind of oh, another thing that actually happened. Then the same time I read The Magical Child, the the movie The Business of Being Born came out and I went and saw that at the movies. And that was another like, yep, there you go. Look, it's, you know, it's it's not an accident that the system is so traumatic.
00:13:11:06 - 00:13:31:07
Unknown
It's actually quite deliberate. And it's done. You know, that that movie portrays for profit. But I think they're actually more reasons than that, obviously. But yeah. So that was another kind of key piece of that, like just putting all the pieces together. And then yeah, in my late 20s met my husband, we got married a few years later and got pregnant.
00:13:31:07 - 00:13:54:22
Unknown
So at the point that we got pregnant, in many ways I was very knowledgeable because I had read, you know, read so much and consumed so much information. But I was very naive as well. Like, I really had the belief that home birth midwife attended home birth was like the pinnacle birth experience because you weren't in the hospital, that's how.
00:13:55:00 - 00:14:21:08
Unknown
Yeah, that's how it's pitched. And even with all of my reading like that. Yeah, but most of the reading and the books in that documentary all are doubling down on that idea. I mean, I can't speak about this one. I didn't read, but like, yeah, it's all it's really that is the consciousness almost everywhere that the most hands off granola thing you can do is have a medical midwife manager first at home.
00:14:21:09 - 00:14:47:19
Unknown
Yeah, exactly. That's funny. Yeah. And so I also which I think is also not unusual, I had this idea that like, midwives were just these beautiful people who I really didn't think they would be such a thing as a bad midwife. You know, I was like, if they're if they're a midwife, then they understand and they respect natural birth and they respect baby.
00:14:47:21 - 00:15:13:04
Unknown
Yeah. And mothers and so yeah, really, you know, midwives were definitely on a pedestal for me and I, you know, felt very confident in choosing a midwife, attended home birth for my first baby, that I was making the best possible choice. And I had actually, I know in one of the books I'd read, it had mentioned unassisted birth as like a choice, not just happening accidentally.
00:15:13:04 - 00:15:32:18
Unknown
And I remember just being confused by that. Like, why? Why would you choose that when you can just have a midwife, you know, like when you have a midwife, you have you have the home birth, but you also have the safety. Like that's what I, you know, and of course that's what I thought. So yeah, that's the bitch.
00:15:32:20 - 00:15:50:01
Unknown
So I already had known for a couple of years the midwife I was going to choose, she was a midwife in the area that we were living at that time, and I had met her a couple of years before doing some copywriting for her. And when I met her, I was just like, she just filled the image in my mind of what a midwife is.
00:15:50:02 - 00:16:19:22
Unknown
This was in Topanga. Like, okay, yeah. And yeah, she just she just had the, you know, the Earth mama like hippie energy. And look that I was just, like, the perfect myth. Not a good midwife. Yeah, that's where we were going. Yeah, yeah. So she fits the archetype you've known for years. Yeah. And so I the second I, you know, got the positive pregnancy test.
00:16:19:23 - 00:16:40:03
Unknown
I'm so excited. I emailed her like I'm pregnant. And what do I do? Because I didn't know what to do. Did you tell me what to do? And I remember her email back was like probably the first of like quite a few red flags email back. You know, I'm sure she said something at the start like, congratulation, whatever.
00:16:40:03 - 00:17:08:07
Unknown
And then she ended it with, if you don't stop eating, come and see me by at eight weeks. And I was just like bleeding. It's so weird, right? Like, why? Why frame it that way? Like, as though the pregnancy being viable would be a typical you know, the expectation is you will start bleeding. But if you don't. So I mean, I see it now as a, as a gift of a red flag.
00:17:08:07 - 00:17:47:18
Unknown
But in the moment I was just like, that's weird. I just like just upsets me to no end that these women are the is gatekeeping the right term like they're they're put at the position to receive these such sweetness. You know, a new mother having her first pregnancy is just like the most beautiful weakness. It's such a sweet, precious, sacred part of a life and of of our culture, you know, and that the first interaction is just this, you know, like all the time.
00:17:47:21 - 00:18:09:11
Unknown
Obviously, there's a million stories out there. It's just it upsets me so much. I know. Yeah, it's obviously a red flag. What a bizarre thing to say. So bizarre. Yeah. And you know, it's just like, okay, well, I hope I don't start bleeding. Yeah. That's the woman the other day was, was being interviewed, I think it was for the podcast.
00:18:09:11 - 00:18:30:06
Unknown
And she was like, yeah, my midwives came over, my waters had opened and my midwives came over and the first thing they said was, well, hopefully this doesn't turn into an infection because then we'll have to transfer you like, well, why would you why would you say that out loud? Why? Gosh. Yeah. Oh yeah, I'm allergic to my office.
00:18:30:06 - 00:18:40:20
Unknown
And apparently it's because GAM is like because I'm irritated or some bullshit. I'm like, well, yeah.
00:18:40:22 - 00:19:03:05
Unknown
You guys know the work I do. Of course I sneeze in my office all day long. Sorry, I just triggered that sneezing attack. Okay, so did you read that as a red flag? Like, did you know? Unfortunately, no. Only in retrospect did I go. Oh, it was there from the start. You know, the very first words she said to me.
00:19:03:07 - 00:19:22:16
Unknown
Yeah. Oh, but no, I didn't. I mean, I was very uncomfortable with it, but I just, you know, I just put honestly put it down to my own ignorance of the process, like, oh maybe. Yeah, maybe this is what you say to someone who's newly pregnant. You know, I actually I remember I felt a bit silly, like I'd reached out to her too early.
00:19:22:16 - 00:19:41:19
Unknown
And in fact, as I say that I really think that's probably what it was. She was probably a little bit irritated with me because she was a bit of an irritable person. Like, she was irritated the night I went into labor that I was. Yeah, interrupting her Sunday night. I honestly think that might have been it. So anyway.
00:19:41:19 - 00:19:59:19
Unknown
But it did have the effect of making me feel, well, it's also just bad business. I mean, I worked for a medical midwife and, you know, obviously women would sign up early and then they would lose pregnancies and that's like a part of a midwifery practice. I mean, it's happened to me as well, of course. But yeah, it's also just like bad business.
00:19:59:21 - 00:20:16:21
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. And you just don't need to frame it that way. You lightweights without saying putting the image of blood in my head. Okay. So you're like, this is my girl. This is my girl, but committed.
00:20:16:23 - 00:20:40:08
Unknown
Oh, sorry. Didn't stop bleeding. I went and saw it. I signed up with a and you know, I had a a really lovely you know, first pregnancies I think are just so lovely because you have all the time in the world to, you know, do prenatal yoga and do hypno birthing classes and watch movies and read books when you have morning sickness or a migraine.
00:20:40:08 - 00:21:05:21
Unknown
And, and I just love being pregnant, like, even when it's crappy, like morning sickness, migraines in the second trimester. You know, synthesis, pubis dysfunction in the third trimester. It's been my usual pattern other than my last pregnancy. Yeah, I just I love being pregnant. I love the mystery of it. And I love, you know, just nourishing myself and just everything about it, the dreams that I have.
00:21:05:22 - 00:21:31:13
Unknown
And so, yeah, I had a really, really lovely pregnancy and, you know, developed like a good friendship with my midwife. And I do remember there were like various times throughout where I was like, that's weird. That's weird. And but it never I'm also a very loyal person. I never would have left it, you know, even if I'd probably, like, seen something really blatant, I just wouldn't have.
00:21:31:15 - 00:21:53:22
Unknown
And actually, one beautiful thing she did for me, I had a little freak out, like, at some point in the pregnancy, because I read that women who have had the leap cervical procedure can be more likely to go in premature labor. And, you know, they should be checked throughout pregnancy to make sure they're not dilating early. And I remember reading this and being like mad at my midwives.
00:21:53:22 - 00:22:13:15
Unknown
Like, she hasn't been doing this. Like she should have known. She should have been doing this. And when I went to her, like with my panic and my fear, she was just like, well, no, of course I wouldn't want to do that because it would just likely lead to more intervention. And I know you don't want that. So, you know, she had some of course, no one is just like one thing or another.
00:22:13:15 - 00:22:37:11
Unknown
She had some lovely things about her. And that was, you know, one gift that she gave me in the pregnancy. She kind of talked me off the ledge there. But then, so then when she came to the house at the end of the pregnancy for the home visit at 37 weeks. This was really weird. She came into the house and sat down, and she was just so ridiculous.
00:22:37:11 - 00:23:02:04
Unknown
Now that I've seen your driveway, I really do want you to go and get an ultrasound just to check the heart, just to make sure there's nothing going on, because this is a hard house to get out of in an emergency. Whoa. Yeah. Tactic. Right. And of course, you see it right way. Car driveway. That's a new one.
00:23:02:06 - 00:23:23:21
Unknown
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00:23:23:23 - 00:23:50:15
Unknown
Grab it now by going to our website at Fryeburg Society one. I love that you just instantly know it to be a tactic, but it of course it is, but I didn't see it at the moment. Yeah, right. I'm sorry. I'm gonna have to tell you all under that one. That's a really, really creative. So proposed. Wow. We did have a steep driveway down a hillside to our.
00:23:50:17 - 00:24:17:14
Unknown
That must. You must have an ultrasound if you have a steep driveway. Right. And also a driveway that you had to back out of, you couldn't turn at the bottom. And so you're also a midwife in Topanga Canyon? Yeah. So this is a line she uses frequently? Totally. Yeah. There's a lot of steep driveways there. Yeah. So she sees the driveway she wants us to have just to check the heart so that when we cut that cord, we're not creating an emergency, is what she actually said.
00:24:17:14 - 00:24:40:01
Unknown
That was the end of it. And of course, she says that. So visual. And immediately, even though I had said from the start, I definitely don't want an ultrasound, I was 37 weeks. I guess I'll go get a one to check the heart. So at 38 weeks, we go in and get an ultrasound. And it wasn't just a quick check the heart.
00:24:40:02 - 00:24:57:14
Unknown
The midwife was in there with us. It ended up being a full anatomy scan, which with a 38 week baby, is very hard to do because they're taking up the whole womb and you can't really see. And I was also just so terrified that they were going to accidentally give away the sex of the baby because, you know, precious secret.
00:24:57:14 - 00:25:19:10
Unknown
And I'm like, oh my gosh. Imagine if they accidentally say he or she, you know, right before we give birth. And so I was like not looking at the screen. I kept saying, don't forget, we don't want to know if it's a boy or a girl. And and anyway, at the end, the scenographer, first of all, he said, now this baby's already 7 pounds, so you want to lay off the cards between now and the end of your pregnancy?
00:25:19:10 - 00:25:53:10
Unknown
Because the big of a thing. What is the industry? Why does anyone go to it? It's so horrible. But I'm very glad I did not lay off the cards, because I had him three weeks later and he was only 6 pounds. Three ounces. Yeah, yeah, he wasn't 7 pounds and when I was 38 weeks. But anyway, he also like did that like crazy 3D ultrasound thing at the very end without me even really knowing and then printed off like a photo of the baby's face and was like, yeah, you can show the grandparents.
00:25:53:10 - 00:26:11:10
Unknown
And I took that photo from him and looked at it, and even though it was all blurry and you couldn't really see the face, I just looked at it and I was like, it's a boy. And he was like, oh, you couldn't possibly know that? And I was like, so it is a boy. You just confirmed it for me.
00:26:11:12 - 00:26:33:12
Unknown
So that was a bummer. But I mean, I tried to get myself back into the like, I don't really know, but it was a boy and I. And I really did know. And anyway, everything was fine with his heart. So the driveway wasn't an issue anymore. And, oh, totally manipulative and disgusting. Yeah. Just. Yeah, she wanted that for her own.
00:26:33:12 - 00:27:03:17
Unknown
Why did she want it so much? I don't even know her. Well, because to have a midwife in LA, they work with backup obese. And so her backup OB requires one ultrasound in order for him to be comfortable backing her up. Guaranteed. That's what it is. Guaranteed. Like, I would bet $1,000 that that's what it is. Well, let's say it's not that, then it's just her own stuff.
00:27:03:17 - 00:27:22:22
Unknown
But it's almost for sure that because that's how it goes. I mean, that's why they all do it. You know, I've worked for plenty of them and with them and heard all the stuff, but the the ob GYNs want that wanted and many will not even back you up if you don't have if your client doesn't have it.
00:27:22:22 - 00:27:45:03
Unknown
So, that's weird that she wouldn't be transparent about that, but they're not transparent. Like, I just never hear that they're transparent or see that she might have felt she couldn't be with me because I was adamant from the start that I didn't want one. So yeah, but I mean, they all have backups. Yeah. No, that may have been why though.
00:27:45:03 - 00:28:01:11
Unknown
She went the tactics and she didn't want to sound. Yeah, yeah. But I mean I have seen like the midwife I to work for you know she would straight at be like the doctor that we go to if you have an emergency requires an ultrasound and this is who I work with. So you have to get one, which is still not true.
00:28:01:14 - 00:28:29:10
Unknown
It's still like basically completely unethical to frame it like that. But anyway, that would be my guess. Another thing is just she was obviously afraid of birth and was a terrible midwife, and so she just felt more comfortable having a sign, you know, like a check of because it's also so dumb. Like if you know anything about ultrasounds, what did she see on that ultrasound that actually made her feel comfortable?
00:28:29:11 - 00:28:50:20
Unknown
Like, what are the things that she thinks the ultrasounds even ruling out? Yeah, there is a small list of things, but I guess like a serious is what she was thinking. Well, that's what she said. That's not, to be honest. Yeah. That's true hate. Okay. So annoying. Okay. So you know, it's boy. They ruin it for you. Yeah.
00:28:50:22 - 00:29:18:14
Unknown
You've got a cuckoo midwife how your birth goes. Yeah. So that was 38 weeks. And then like, right before 30 weeks, she drops the. I can't attend you after 42 weeks bombshell which she had not dropped before then. And somehow, even with all my reading and research, I really didn't know I was totally ignorant to that. So that was shocking to me, because it really just was like the beginning of the crack of, well, you're not really here for me.
00:29:18:14 - 00:29:46:03
Unknown
If like at 42 weeks, I have to give birth in hospital. And of course I wouldn't have had to have, but it felt like. That's right. Yeah, yeah. And so then, you know, the obvious, like, as it's like getting closer to 41 weeks, she's like, well, you know, these are the things that we have available and, you know, from all the things, you know, all the things and, you know, from herbs and membrane sweeping to cast a royal as a last resort.
00:29:46:03 - 00:30:09:18
Unknown
And I ended up agreeing to have my membrane swept at 41 weeks, and her newly hired assistant midwife came to do that. And she was a midwife, like, straight out of the hospital. Like, I think my birth was the second home birth that she had ever attended. She was a very nice lady, but I'm just giving you the context of where she came from.
00:30:09:19 - 00:30:30:18
Unknown
So she came and swept my membranes. Very painful. Obviously. That was on a Friday night and I did have like cramping and, you know, like contractions all through that night. And they kind of continued a little bit through the next day. And then Saturday night they got really quite, you know, heavy. I was practicing all my hypno birthing, breathing and visualizations during the night.
00:30:30:18 - 00:30:53:14
Unknown
And then Sunday day they totally stopped. And I got very disheartened. I was like 41 and I think I was 40, I was 41 and a day or two and I was booked in for a non stress test and an ultrasound the next day on the Monday. And that just felt so wrong to me. And I was just so disheartened about it.
00:30:53:14 - 00:31:13:04
Unknown
And I spent that whole day just like super depressed and moody. And then Sunday night my husband ran me a bath and I got in the bath. I was listening to my birth music and he got in behind me. And then the sensation started and I was so happy. I was like, yes. Hopefully, you know, this turns into labor.
00:31:13:04 - 00:31:33:00
Unknown
It might just be another night of sensations, but let's see. And I called my midwife around 8:00 and just said, you know, just told her what was happening. And she was like, okay, well, you know, call me if anything changes. And I kind of got the feeling like it's Sunday night. She's home with her kids. Like she really doesn't want me to go into labor.
00:31:33:02 - 00:31:54:02
Unknown
And anyway, I, you know, my husband and I told my husband, you just watch TV. I'm just gonna, you know, I'm just going to walk around. And I just walked, and sometimes I sat and everything was just beautiful. And I was feeling really good. No fear. And then around 10:00, I just had this contraction that was like, boom, suddenly really big.
00:31:54:02 - 00:32:19:21
Unknown
And I was like, oh, this is definitely labor. And I told my husband, like, call the Midwife. And he said, don't you want me to call the doula first? Because we also had a dual, a really lovely woman. She was the mom of a friend of mine, lived in the same area, and the plan was always to have her come first so that we didn't, like, overreact knowing that birth could go for a day or two, have her come for a few hours and, you know, have the midwife come as late as possible.
00:32:19:21 - 00:32:36:20
Unknown
But when I felt this contraction at 10:00, I was like, no, no, no cold call the midwife, have I come now? And when he called her, she was like, really? She really wants me to come. And she's just in early labor. And he was like, she's saying that she like definitely wants you to come. And she was like, all right.
00:32:36:22 - 00:32:53:02
Unknown
And she was just around like, she was like a 15 maximum minute drive away. And she didn't get there for over an hour, like an hour. An hour and a half later she got there. And when she walked in the door, she said to my husband before even laying eyes on me because I was in the bath, in the bathroom.
00:32:53:02 - 00:33:30:06
Unknown
At this point, she said, she's probably 3 or 4cm dilated. I know, so crazy. So she arrived. Yeah. Like, what a crazy way to enter a home. And how do you have no fucking humility? Yeah, no. And this makes me think, like, do they do they not go to births? Yeah, right. I'm always surprised, I never know, I'm always surprised and I'm wrong all the time when I think I know something, you know, because it's birth and therefore you know that you can be wrong.
00:33:30:08 - 00:33:49:01
Unknown
Of course. She was so sad. You just eventually get to a place where you stop guessing, you stop. You stopped doing that bullshit. Yeah, totally. Yeah. So yeah, the Duala had gotten there a little bit before her, and she was just, you know, sitting with me in the in the bathroom. I was in the just in the bathtub.
00:33:49:03 - 00:34:08:12
Unknown
And it was very heavy by that point. Like I'd throw my hypno birthing visualizations out the window. And I was just, like, trying to survive at that point. And my doula just held, like, beautiful space for me and was a gorgeous presence. Actually, the birth, I always think, would have been so lovely had it just been her.
00:34:08:18 - 00:34:30:06
Unknown
Yeah. But anyway, the midwife arrived and she came in and she actually she saw me like, have a contraction and she started toning because I think I was just like, I don't know if I was holding my breath or just like, I wasn't really making a lot of sound. And she started toning, and that was actually a real gift that she gave me because I started turning and I was like, oh, this is actually just what I needed.
00:34:30:06 - 00:34:49:18
Unknown
And I've done that in every birth since. So that was a, you know, that was a lovely gift she gave me. But yeah, not long after she got there, she was like, If I'm going to check you, you're going to have to get out of the bath. And this was another like, I never even had a conversation with her about checking or not checking, because in my mind, a midwife doesn't check you unless there's a good reason for it.
00:34:49:18 - 00:35:08:06
Unknown
So I can just trust her. You know, she's not going to ask me if I just want to be checked for no reason. But she did. And well, to be clear, it wasn't for no reason. She wanted to know if this was worth her staying for. Exactly. It's incredibly selfish and it's a horrible, totally unethical thing to do.
00:35:08:06 - 00:35:29:02
Unknown
But there's for sure a reason for her because she's not staying and babysitting you during early labor. Yeah, it was like, yeah, yeah, this is like midnight on a Sunday night. She wants to be home with her kids. That's why I say she was irritated that I was in labor. It really felt like that the whole time she was there, her energy felt irritated.
00:35:29:04 - 00:35:51:21
Unknown
So I, you know, just being in that, you know, that vulnerable labor state, you're just so suggestive, especially when you are deferring to an outside authority. So when she said, like, if you want me to check me, if you want me to check you, it was just automatic to me that I had to be checked like there was no just like I had to say yes.
00:35:52:01 - 00:36:13:03
Unknown
And it took me, you know, my husband half an hour to move me, you know, because at this point I was actually, you know, even through transition. See, I took an excruciating half an hour to get me from the bath just across the other side of our tiny house to the bedroom for her to check me. And at that point, like contraction, there was just one.
00:36:13:04 - 00:36:34:11
Unknown
There was no break in between. It was just like rocking my body, and it was going back to front and back around, and my hips felt like they were just going to explode. And I was having to stop and say, tell my husband, put your hands on my hips, and finally got to the bed and my midwife checked me and she's like, oh, you're fully dilated.
00:36:34:11 - 00:36:54:10
Unknown
And the baby's right there, so you can't stop pushing it because the assistant midwife's not here. And so the assistant midwife got there not long later. Now it was like midnight. And she's like, okay, sister, midwives here now you can start pushing. And I was like, I don't feel like pushing. And she's like, well, just try on the next contraction.
00:36:54:10 - 00:37:17:01
Unknown
And so I tried it felt horrible wrong. And then she's on the next contraction. She's like, try lying this way and pushing and you know, nothing was feeling right. Nothing was feeling good. And at that point she was like, you know what? I didn't think we had time to blow up the pool. But I'm going to, you know, blow up the pool with your husband and maybe, like, being in the pool will help.
00:37:17:01 - 00:37:39:12
Unknown
So they started blowing up the pool, selling it up. We ran out of hot water because I'd been having a bath, you know, all night. But I got in, and then it was just like this awful hour of coached pushing. And coach pushing is just so horrific. You know, it doesn't sound like the worst thing in the world, right?
00:37:39:12 - 00:38:06:11
Unknown
But it's really so horrible. And it just like I became so disconnected from my body, like I was just totally severed from my body. I had no idea even what was happening. I couldn't feel my baby moving through my body like I couldn't feel anything. I was totally severed from, you know, this really until that point, this, like, beautiful labor that I'd been having.
00:38:06:13 - 00:38:38:01
Unknown
And, so the other thing was that during that, our, my midwife was kind of like off on the side and letting the assistant midwife, like, just do whatever she wanted and something that she did that I had no conscious memory of at the time because I was so disconnected and just like listening to them and just doing whatever they said and was, she had her hands inside me and she was like trying to open me up or stretch me or whatever she was doing.
00:38:38:03 - 00:39:07:23
Unknown
And again, this was a memory that I totally blocked, but which resurfaced 18 months later. But I just wanted to mention that now because it was the most traumatizing part of the birth, even though I didn't remember it for 18 months. Well, your body did. My body did. Exactly. Yeah. And my body was storing that trauma. But yeah, you know, the midwife was obviously like, you know, listening to heart tones occasionally.
00:39:07:23 - 00:39:30:07
Unknown
And after doing that one time, she just suddenly goes, we need to get this baby out. And I just, you know, the fear just filled me. And I look at her face and she just goes, everything's fine, but we need to get this baby out. And she made it sound like something horrible was happening. Of course. And I really just think she wanted to go home and she wanted it over.
00:39:30:12 - 00:39:47:13
Unknown
But then, you know, then when she was telling me to push, I was literally pushing like my life depended on it. And in the end, or like your baby's life did, like my baby's life depended on it. In the end, he. I pushed so hard he shot out head, body in one go, like just flew out of my body.
00:39:47:13 - 00:40:05:06
Unknown
And I didn't even have an idea in that moment that he was about to be born. Like that's how disconnected I was. I couldn't even feel, And so he shot out and my husband kind of tried to touch him first, but the assistant midwife kind of grabbed him and pulled him out of the water, and the cord was around his neck.
00:40:05:06 - 00:40:35:11
Unknown
And then there was like this flurry of unwrapping the cord and turning him upside down and rubbing his back. And why, I don't know. I mean, he was making gurgling noises, so I think it was totally unnecessary. Babies. Yeah, yeah, but it's crazy how even, you know, even in a home birth, like home birth can be so traumatic when you invite these horrible people who know birth and you don't know, you know, everyone just thinks like, oh, you're home birth.
00:40:35:11 - 00:41:01:18
Unknown
That's so great. That's so. Yeah, I mean, that's like, that's what I thought about the birth for the longest time afterwards. Like, you know, I had that story, but like I did it, I had a home birth. It was great. It was amazing. Yeah. It took some unpacking and it took that, you know that. Well, I'll get into what happened with the with my body and what that midwife had done to me with her hands inside me.
00:41:01:20 - 00:41:33:01
Unknown
But yeah, basically, I, you know, I came so I came out of that verse, you know, really telling the story that it, it, it was a successful, amazing, you know, beautiful home birth. And I, you know, I had a lovely postpartum afterwards. I, you know, I just loved being a mom, I loved breastfeeding, my son was very colicky, and I had to cut a lot of foods out of my diet, which was quite stressful, but I didn't care.
00:41:33:01 - 00:41:58:11
Unknown
I was like, whatever. And was just really in heaven. Being a mom and having my little boy. And then for like 18 months after the birth, sex was incredibly painful and I couldn't figure out why it wasn't getting better. At first, it made sense. I'm like, I just gave birth. But then, you know, as time went on, I was just like, what is going on?
00:41:58:12 - 00:42:28:18
Unknown
Like, is this how my body is always going to feel now? And a friend connected me with I can't remember what it's called. Is it called sexology body work? Were they like, do internal, you know, internal work? And okay, so I went and had a couple of sessions with some women that do that kind of work, but they're like, you know, once you get into like a very, you know, trusting, consenting space, they will actually put their fingers inside and kind of touch different spots to try.
00:42:28:18 - 00:42:50:09
Unknown
And, it's called mapping, I think. But it basically can like release trauma. And the third session that I had, it was with a woman I hadn't seen yet and was in my own home. She was doing that internal work, and she touched a particular place, and all of a sudden the memory came back of the assistant midwife with her hands inside me.
00:42:50:09 - 00:43:19:12
Unknown
And I just started sobbing and, you know, shared what I was remembering with the practitioner. And, you know, she just like held me. And it was a really, you know, beautiful that, you know, awful experience, just realizing that not only had I had that experience, but I had completely blocked it out of my conscious awareness. And yet there it was, stored in my body, like in my tissues.
00:43:19:12 - 00:43:44:01
Unknown
It's still so incredible to me. And just that woman's, like, loving, you know, healing touch. And my own intention to heal allowed it to be released. It was, you know, it was I mean, it really is ultimately just beautiful, but it was also, yeah, I felt so violated with this memory that, you know, I still carry to this day.
00:43:44:03 - 00:44:13:02
Unknown
But yeah. So I had a spontaneous healing from that, though sex was never painful again and also had, which Kimberly and Johnson also had. And she talks about in her book The Fourth Trimester A Spontaneous Closing of My Dear Stacy's Ready. So I had a really cool experience after that session. But that experience was really important for me because it was the beginning of the unraveling of the story.
00:44:13:02 - 00:44:33:21
Unknown
I told myself about what a great birth I'd had, and I realized that I had been wronged. I'd been, you know, really wronged, and I'd been wronged by this assistant midwife. But my midwife had just stood there and let her do it. Well, it's more than let Sky she's teaching her. Yeah. It wasn't let. Yeah, she was her apprentice.
00:44:33:22 - 00:44:55:14
Unknown
Apprentice? My God, what is the word? Assistant preceptor? No, the the teacher. She was her teacher. She's teaching her to do that. And if she hadn't been doing it, your midwife would have done it. Yeah. You're right. Actually, she didn't like stand by while someone assaulted you. She instructed her to assault you. Yeah, it's like it's even sicker.
00:44:55:16 - 00:45:17:09
Unknown
Yeah, it's even worse, isn't it? Yeah. In my mind, it's always been like she just stood there like she was the person I hired to protect me and help me have, like, a peaceful birth. And she stood there and let that woman do it. But yeah, you're right. I mean, she waited and didn't let you have your baby, and she paid this woman most likely to.
00:45:17:14 - 00:45:24:06
Unknown
I mean, it's it's even worse. Yeah. You're right.
00:45:24:08 - 00:46:03:04
Unknown
So. Yeah, but an important event in my evolution as a as a mother because, yeah, it was the thread that I pulled and it kind of unraveled the whole thing. And around that time I found the Freebird Society on Instagram, started listening to the podcast. So this is like 2017, 2018, maybe 2018. And then I was just like, then I saw it all for what it was, you know, listening to you, listening to the mothers sharing their stories, not just their free birth stories, but their home birth, you know, mad wife's attended home birds.
00:46:03:04 - 00:46:27:18
Unknown
It just unraveled the whole thing. And I was just like, you know, I walked into this like, I actually chose this. And so I was like, next baby, I'm having a free birth. And three years after my son was born, we got pregnant again. And I you know, by this point, I'd probably known for at least six months I'm absolutely having a free birth.
00:46:27:18 - 00:46:57:04
Unknown
Next baby, got pregnant, you know, did a pregnancy test. And I had this very strange experience when I, when I got that positive pregnancy test where when I looked at the, you know, two little lines and I was like, oh, right down, you know, I had that feeling of just like joy and euphoria that you have when you realize you're pregnant and like, right in the middle of that, just this feeling came in me of like, dread is the only way I know how to describe it.
00:46:57:04 - 00:47:22:03
Unknown
It was like this very heavy feeling of dread that just kind of penetrated my joy. Almost simultaneous to the joy erupting was this feeling and the feeling, had I been able to put it into words, would have said, something's wrong. And, you know, it was pretty heavy. But I just was like, well, you know, I don't really know what this means, and what am I going to do?
00:47:22:03 - 00:47:44:04
Unknown
Nothing. I'm just going to, you know, move forward in the pregnancy, which I did, it was a pretty similar pregnancy to my first. You know, I had the morning sickness in the first trimester, the migraines and the second trimester, the synthesis pubis in the third. But, you know, still just loved being pregnant. And, you know, it was it was a good pregnancy.
00:47:44:09 - 00:48:14:00
Unknown
There was some stress because we moved from our house at that time. We were planning on moving to Australia in March, April of 2020, and so sold our house there in LA in preparation for that. And we moved in with my mom an hour and a half north. So he spent three months of that pregnancy living with my mom before deciding, like, you know what, let's get a rental back where we were living in LA and and have the birth there, you know, have the baby there for a few months before we move to Australia.
00:48:14:02 - 00:48:38:17
Unknown
So at 30 weeks of that pregnancy, which had been a wild pregnancy, and I love that not answering to anyone, not going to any stupid prenatal appointments. I suddenly started to feel like I wanted to hire midwives, which was a very. It was shocking even to me, because I'm like, why am I feeling this? Like, is it fear?
00:48:38:17 - 00:48:54:23
Unknown
And there was some fear in there, but it was just a very strong feeling. You need to hire midwives. And I resisted it for a while. And then I finally decided, I'm just going to meet with a midwife and just see how that feels. And at this point, we were living with my mom and hour and a half North.
00:48:55:00 - 00:49:15:02
Unknown
I mean, I never obviously would have hired the same midwife anyway, and I went and met with the midwife in her area. And, you know, I asked her what she thought about free birth and she was not very approving. And so I was like, well, you know, that's really what I wanted to do. So I really want someone who, you know, would be supportive of that, even if I'm not choosing it.
00:49:15:02 - 00:49:32:20
Unknown
So I walked away and was like, okay, so I'm not going to hire a midwife. And then I still had the feeling. So I decided to meet with one more. I thought, I'll meet with one more if they don't feel right, then obviously I just need to work through whatever this is and just stick with my plan. And I met with this midwife and she was a midwife.
00:49:32:20 - 00:49:58:05
Unknown
I knew a few people who had used her and loved her, and she was kind of a very well loved midwife, very like old school. She's been practicing since the 70s. I'm sure you know her. So I met with her and I loved her and just had a beautiful connection with her. And when I told her I had had, you know, wild pregnancy and was planning on free birthing, but just wasn't sure that it was right anymore, she was like, I can be as hands off as you want.
00:49:58:05 - 00:50:13:23
Unknown
I'm totally supportive of that and I can be in another room, whatever you like. And I just, you know, I had a wonderful feeling about her. And when I talked to her about things that had happened with my first midwife, she was, you know, shocked and like, that's awful. And, you know, I'll never do those things to you.
00:50:13:23 - 00:50:35:11
Unknown
And so I felt really good about her and was like, I'm going to have a midwife. And that's okay. You know, I'm not going to have a free birth. And I grieved that a little bit, but it just felt right. And I met her assistant, who I didn't have the same kind of soul connection with, but she was a super lovely, kind woman.
00:50:35:13 - 00:51:04:20
Unknown
And at 40 weeks, I went and had a prenatal appointment with the midwife I'd hired. And, you know, she listened to the baby's heart with the fetus scope and was like, heartbeat sounds amazing. You know, everything's looking good. And, three days after that appointment, we'd had this really busy day, like, kind of driving from my mom's house back to the rental where we lived in LA and going to two Halloween parties.
00:51:04:20 - 00:51:23:21
Unknown
And we got into bed that night, and the second I got into bed, I just turned to my husband and I said, I don't know. The last time I felt the baby moved. Oh, and he was like, oh, why are you telling me this? Like, right, is we going to sleep? He's like, I'm sure it's fine. Don't babies get really quiet right before you go into labor?
00:51:23:21 - 00:51:43:18
Unknown
He's like, you're probably about to go into labor. And I was like, yeah, you're right. That's probably what it is. And honestly, I already knew. Like I just knew. And he he went to sleep and I stayed up all night trying to get the baby to move on one side lying on the other, lying on my back to know poses.
00:51:43:19 - 00:52:06:13
Unknown
When you say you already knew. Do you mean like in that moment when you said it to him kind of thing, or you knew prior? No, I think well, actually, the night before I woke up in the middle of the night and to pee, got back into bed and this never happened to me. But when I got back into bed, I thought, I just want to feel the baby move before I fall asleep.
00:52:06:13 - 00:52:24:19
Unknown
And I remember I laid there for quite a while, maybe 20 minutes before. I felt like a tiny movement and I thought, okay, I felt the baby move, I can go back to sleep. And I didn't even remember that when I woke up in the morning. And then we had the busy day. But when I got into bed and was like, when was the last time I felt the baby moved?
00:52:24:19 - 00:52:48:13
Unknown
That came back to me. And I honestly think that might have been when he left. I don't know for sure, but I think the movement that I felt, you know, I know now that you can actually feel little movements even when the baby's not alive, because they're in a watery environment and they have like, reflexes and. Exactly. Yeah.
00:52:48:14 - 00:53:13:02
Unknown
So but yeah, I just, you know, it's like so I had this experience where intuitively deep down I knew, but my conscious mind was like, this can't be happening. Obviously your baby's fine. You're about to go into labor. You know, they're just quiet and. Oh, yeah. And I spent all night trying to get the baby to move. And my conscious mind was like, don't call the midwife because you'll be bugging her for no reason.
00:53:13:02 - 00:53:38:20
Unknown
And it's the middle of the night and everything's fine. And then I think for a m, I finally woke up my husband and I was like, I still haven't felt the baby move. And he's like, call the midwife. Just wake her up. Don't feel bad. Like that's what. Yeah, yeah. So I called her and she was like, look, I'm sure everything's fine, but, you know, drink a glass of juice and if you don't feel anything and then in an hour she's like, I would say that, you know, to go to the hospital.
00:53:38:21 - 00:53:58:16
Unknown
And she said that because they were back where my mum lived, where we were living when we hired them. But we were now in Lais, so they were actually like an hour and a half away from us, whereas a hospital was like 15 minutes away. Well, yeah. But yeah, still. Also, why wouldn't she just come to your house, I don't understand.
00:53:58:18 - 00:54:17:07
Unknown
Yeah. No. You're right actually. Yeah. Why aren't midwives? Midwives? Yeah. No. Gosh. Thank you. Emilee, go to the hospital. It's that right. And in fact, the next morning, because we didn't go to the hospital because when she said that, I was just like, I'm not going to go to a hospital and have a stranger tell me that she should have been like, I'll be there in two hours.
00:54:17:08 - 00:54:20:23
Unknown
Yeah. You're so right.
00:54:21:01 - 00:54:41:21
Unknown
And then the next morning, which, you know, like she also could have come in the morning, but we got up and, you know, we slept for a couple of hours, and then we got up and we drove to actually we drove to the assistant midwife because she was half an hour closer to us. So she was about an hour away, and she happened to be at a birth center that morning, and there was no one else at the birth center.
00:54:41:21 - 00:54:59:04
Unknown
But we met her there. And, you know, she listened with a fetus scope first, because that had been my preference in the pregnancy, and she couldn't find a heartbeat. And then she listened with the Doppler. She couldn't find a heartbeat. And then she even had like an ultrasound machine that just picked up sound and she couldn't find a heartbeat.
00:54:59:06 - 00:55:19:20
Unknown
And, you know, she just looked down at me and, and just said, I'm so sorry. And, you know, just like that moment where, you know, even though I already knew deep down this was the moment. This is when it's real. This is when it's real. And it's just, you know, it's a moment that really can't be described.
00:55:19:20 - 00:55:50:21
Unknown
It's just like everything comes crashing down, you know? It's like your whole. Your whole world comes crashing down. And you know, the grief as it enters the body is just so intense. But I had this really beautiful experience that I want to mention because, I just think it's very important as the grief was like hitting me. And I remember I was lying on my back from her doing it and this big belly and like I was, I couldn't even, like, breathe.
00:55:50:21 - 00:56:17:01
Unknown
And she was like, helping me roll onto my side so that I could just sob and as, like, the sobbing is coming out and all this pain, like underneath it was just this feeling of total peace. It was like all on the surface was like pain and agony and grief and disbelief. But underneath it, which I was just totally tapped into, was just a feeling of peace.
00:56:17:01 - 00:56:44:21
Unknown
And the feeling was just telling me, you're okay. Everything's okay and everything is going to be okay. And that what I ever I tapped into in that moment really helped me in the weeks ahead because I never really I never really lost touch with that feeling that it was all okay, you know, even though it didn't feel okay.
00:56:44:22 - 00:57:16:07
Unknown
It was okay. And the perspective that we have, this physical perspective, material world perspective is so limited. And if we could see everything you know from that plane of peace, we would have just complete acceptance, you know? And so even though, you know, I certainly didn't exist in that plane I went through, you know, horrific grief and, and pain, but I always had that, you know, that faith in being held.
00:57:16:09 - 00:57:45:01
Unknown
And. Yeah, just it really helped me get through that experience and really has changed my whole life, I would say as well, but yeah, we the midwife said, let's go to the hospital and have it confirmed with an ultrasound. I mean, so pointless. Right? But we went to the hospital, had it confirmed with the Notre sound, and the ultrasound girl was just like stone faced, not telling us, you know, it's like, sorry, the doctor has to tell you.
00:57:45:01 - 00:57:59:23
Unknown
And we had to wait half an hour for the doctor to call our midwife and tell, no, there's no heartbeat. And then she said to me, you know, what do you want to do? Like you have every option available to you. You can stay here in the hospital right now. You could be induced. You can get an epidural.
00:58:00:00 - 00:58:13:10
Unknown
You can have any pain relief you want. You can get a C-section. You can have your home birth. Do you want to go home? Like what do you want to do? And I was like, I want to go home and I want to have my baby at home. Like, this is the only experience I'm going to have with them.
00:58:13:15 - 00:58:33:15
Unknown
I want to be at home. And so she was like, okay, well, you just go home now and just sleep. And, you know, we'll talk in the morning. And my mom came and, you know, slept with us at our house. And we woke up in the morning. We actually decided to go up to my mom's house, like near the midwives and just be there, birth there.
00:58:33:16 - 00:58:59:23
Unknown
It felt better to birth in her house and in our rental, and just to be near the midwives and be near my mom. So we went up there that day and on the way we stopped at the the assistant midwife's house and she swept my membranes, which here I am back getting my membranes swept. It's just interesting how the patterns like repeat you know, also you just you also chose medical midwifery again.
00:59:00:00 - 00:59:23:12
Unknown
Exactly. So yes you're right. It's. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So she swept my membranes and you know, she was like, look, you've got time, but we can do this. And I was like, you know, let's do it. Like I'd had a day by that point to kind of process. And I didn't feel ready to give birth in any way to my non-living baby.
00:59:23:13 - 00:59:49:10
Unknown
It was the most terrifying thing I've ever done. But, you know, I was like, I also don't want this to go on for a really long time. So had my membrane swept, it didn't trigger labor, which I'm grateful that it didn't that time, because it gave me just more time to process and grieve. And the next day, you know, sort of now being like three days by this point, she came to my mom's house and spent my membranes again.
00:59:49:11 - 01:00:13:09
Unknown
The next night it was like 7:00. And that did trigger labor. So she left, you know, the sensations started to pick up, but they would only happen when I was moving around. And so I was just like walking circles around my mom's house, and my little three year old son was walking with me, holding my hand, and was so lovely.
01:00:13:11 - 01:00:32:23
Unknown
And, you know, I just became exhausted, though, and at about 9:00 at night, I was just like, I just have to lie down. And, you know, everything stopped when I lay down, but I just slept for an hour or two. And actually, I noticed in my sleep that the sensation started up again and were actually getting quite heavy, and I was able to just keep sleeping through them.
01:00:32:23 - 01:00:50:13
Unknown
And eventually they kind of penetrated my awareness enough to wake me up. And it was about 10 p.m. and at 11 p.m. I was like, okay, I'm definitely like, this is getting heavy. So my husband called the midwife. She got there in like half an hour, and by that point I was already in transition. I had him just off.
01:00:50:14 - 01:01:10:16
Unknown
Whoa. Yeah, I had him just after midnight. So he kind of came. Yeah. Very fast. Yeah. She arrived and she came in to see me, and then she's like, okay, I'm going to go and get my things. And as soon as she walked out, I felt like babies start to descend. And, you know, it was just it terrified me, that feeling.
01:01:10:16 - 01:01:28:15
Unknown
And she was actually the person. My husband was there with me. My mom was there and actually my best friend Nick, who's the godfather of my son, he was also there. He was there to be with our son, but our son had fallen asleep, so he was in with us, which actually turned out to be perfect and beautiful.
01:01:28:17 - 01:01:56:22
Unknown
But yeah, even though they were all there and she had gone out in, the midwife had gone out to the car like when I felt babies start to descend. I just like, screamed out her name, the midwife's name. Like, I just wanted that wise woman, you know, through that experience. And so, yeah, I had him, you know, very shortly after she arrived and, you know, there were just unnecessary little midwife sabotage things that happened in that half hours.
01:01:56:22 - 01:02:22:00
Unknown
Only half an hour. But, you know, small things, but things that later I was just like, why? You know, like everything. Well, like, you know, I was having that, like, incredible, like hip exploding pain again, which seems to be just like what happens as a baby descends for me. I know it happens for many women. And and she was asking me like, are you having a contraction right now?
01:02:22:01 - 01:02:45:07
Unknown
Like asking me questions? And I couldn't, couldn't speak, you know, and I didn't even know if I was having a contraction. It was just like all I could feel was just that, you know, enormous feeling of like, my hips are going to, like, also like, who cares? What does it matter? Yeah, yeah. Why do you even need to know that you're birthing your strange, right?
01:02:45:08 - 01:03:03:18
Unknown
And then she had me. So his head came out. And actually, what was so weird is I didn't even feel his head come out. So I think I still had a bit of like and also just from, I think the fear that I was feeling, I was cut off again, you know, it was really like severed from my lower body.
01:03:03:18 - 01:03:30:22
Unknown
And also I was still outsourcing my authority. And so that also kind of cuts you off from your own body because you don't have a reason to, like, drop into it. You're like, you're taking care of me. You on the outside. You know, I don't need to feel this. I can just, you know, I'm looking to you. And so his head came out, and I only knew because she said she had kind of announced to everyone in the room, my mom, my husband and my friend, the head is out.
01:03:30:22 - 01:03:49:16
Unknown
And she just said it very quietly, but I was like, oh, the heads out. Like I didn't even know. And he's head was out for quite a while. And then she suggested I lay back against my husband, which was another thing that I really I did not want to do, that I was up like the way I always want to be when I give birth.
01:03:49:17 - 01:04:10:06
Unknown
Kind of like on one knee and like a side lunge. And the last thing I wanted was to be laying back. But in that, like, I just do what I'm told in labor state, I just laid back on my husband as much less comfortable and I because it's like, oh, I want like the wise woman. So then I'm going to do what she says.
01:04:10:08 - 01:04:33:04
Unknown
Yeah, exactly. You know, it's a tricky relationship. Yeah. You kind of you get what you you get what you want, right. But yeah. So she had me lay back. And while I was laying back, you know, she had. This is another, like, imprint, kind of from my first birth, like carrying over. But it's also just the world of midwifery, like she had.
01:04:33:04 - 01:04:54:15
Unknown
She. I could see she was, like, between my legs. And then all of a sudden I just feel this, like, incredible pain. And I just said, what is that? And she just says, that's the cord. But I she said, that's the cord. But I think what it what was really happening was she was unwrapping the cord but without telling me, you know, so it's just like and it really hurt.
01:04:54:17 - 01:05:19:06
Unknown
Like nothing was hurting as much as that hurt when she, like, pulls the cord off. And I guess she felt that maybe he wasn't descending because of the had had been out for a while, but like, I mean a few minutes, like maybe only a couple of minutes. Also, I mean, this goes without saying, but like when when we know the baby is already passed, right?
01:05:19:08 - 01:05:37:02
Unknown
What are you doing? What are you doing? I know I've kind of explained it to myself. Like, it must have just been like she got in her head of, like, this is what I do in a normal birth. But it was so silly and just an unnecessary interruption in that moment. And actually it was right before his body came out.
01:05:37:02 - 01:06:06:07
Unknown
So it was kind of a crucial moment. And I'm not help themselves. They have to do something. You know, it's part of the whole savior complex. Like if she were to sit back and just let you birth your baby and power like that doesn't compute. Yeah. That's not attending. Yeah. So yeah. Like I mean a second after I said that and she said that's the cord like his body came out and she, you know she caught him, put him like straight on my belly.
01:06:06:07 - 01:06:48:06
Unknown
And you know such a profoundly beautiful, painful feeling, his body on my belly because he was warm, you know, because he'd been in me and he just felt like just felt like my baby, you know? But, you know, obviously not alive. You know, there's always that tiny part of you that's like, until they're born. And, yeah, we just, you know, we just wept and held him and, you know, not long after that, the other midwife, the the midwife I had actually hired, arrived because this had been the assistant.
01:06:48:07 - 01:07:11:19
Unknown
Oh, yeah. And in the end, almost all of our interaction was with her assistant, who I really liked. But I really loved, you know, that midwife I had hired who didn't come to the birth of your born baby? Yeah, she she tried to. She just missed it because I didn't call them until 11. And he was born just after midnight.
01:07:11:22 - 01:07:40:07
Unknown
So she got there like, just after he was born. Membranes? No, it was everything. That was actually the first time I had seen my midwife. The other midwife was checking in with me constantly and asking like if I needed anything, but I was, you know, I don't know. Yeah. But yeah, so we had, you know, we had as long as we wanted with our son, it was another boy.
01:07:40:09 - 01:08:00:23
Unknown
Interestingly, the whole pregnancy, my oldest son had said, it's a girl, it's a sister, it's a girl sister. So I really believed him and thought it was a girl. But once we found, once we knew that he had gone. But before he was born, my husband and I absolutely knew it was a boy. And we chose his name, which was silly.
01:08:01:01 - 01:08:27:04
Unknown
Halfway through pregnancy, my friend, very psychic friend, had a dream and she texted me and said, I had a dream last night that you had your baby. And he was a boy and I couldn't see him in the dream, but he was coming through the window as sunshine onto your older son, and his name was Ray. And when she texted me about that dream, I was like, Sally, if it's a boy, we should call him Soleil.
01:08:27:06 - 01:08:49:07
Unknown
So we chose that name. And, you know, it's just it was the perfect name for him. But yeah, we had we had 11 hours with him before we, you know, called the funeral home the next morning to come and collect his body. And the assistant midwife spent the whole night with her. She just, you know, slept in another room and was like, I'm here if you need anything.
01:08:49:07 - 01:09:10:05
Unknown
I won't leave until you know you want me to. And we didn't want to leave. Yeah, we know. We got to go sleep with my son for three hours. And then he had three hours with his little brother, like talking to him. And, you know, it was. It was actually as hard as it was, it was very beautiful as well.
01:09:10:07 - 01:09:37:05
Unknown
And another element of it, though, was that our son had some minor birth defects. He had on his hands. The skin on his middle and ring fingers was not separated. And his thumbs, both thumbs were also kind of deformed. So when the midwife saw that, they said, look, this probably is to do with why he died. There could be something internally as well.
01:09:37:07 - 01:10:08:10
Unknown
You know, normally we would just say we don't know. But in this case, because of these like, external abnormalities, it makes it much more likely that there was an organ that wasn't a capable of supporting life. And that was, you know, very hard as well. Added another layer to it all, but was also, you know, not I wouldn't say comforting, but it was like we had some feeling of an answer, even though we didn't and we didn't.
01:10:08:11 - 01:10:32:22
Unknown
We chose not to do an autopsy. We agonized over that decision for a week, but in the end, we just said, you know what? Anything we would be told is probably only going to cause fear going into future pregnancies and birth. So, you know, let's just like, release him and, and know as we do that, you know, everything is happening as it's meant to.
01:10:33:00 - 01:10:53:10
Unknown
So yeah. And then two months after his birth, we went and saw a medium. And that was very healing because she, she just tapped into him and she knew all she knew was that we had lost a child. She didn't know what age. She tapped in right away and knew that we had lost a baby. She actually felt that the baby had died right after birth.
01:10:53:10 - 01:11:18:00
Unknown
That was the only thing she got wrong rather than before birth. But she said right away she said, I'm getting genetic abnormalities. And she said, and I can see that his hands were not formed properly. And she said, this soul really needed properly formed hands for the things that this soul was coming to do in this life. And she said, this body just couldn't support the mission of this soul.
01:11:18:00 - 01:11:51:11
Unknown
And so he chose to step out. And it was incredibly comforting to know that and was honestly just confirmed what I felt in my heart anyway and what my husband felt. And that brought us, you know, a huge amount of just peace and understanding. So for so many women, there won't be any physical markers. Yeah. And that's just another layer of, you know, unknown and mystery and why.
01:11:51:11 - 01:12:24:09
Unknown
And there's just like, nothing even to grab on to, to point to. Yeah, yeah. No, we felt, you know, we felt blessed by blessed by that experience in the sense that even though it added a layer of fear to future pregnancies like now, I was afraid of birth defects. I had to work through that. Yeah. The the peace that ultimately gave us through our conversation with this medium was a real gift in our healing.
01:12:24:10 - 01:12:59:10
Unknown
And you had a baby previously born? Yes, exactly. Who was a perfect is the right term there? Yeah, totally. So, yeah, this was at the end of 2019 that he died and was born. And, you know, we had this plan to move to Australia. And then Covid began and about a year. I know it was a really intense year for everyone, but yeah, we yeah, an extra layer we were dealing with through that time and we you know, we got really blocked from leaving.
01:12:59:10 - 01:13:25:16
Unknown
We tried to like quickly get out to Australia and everything shut down and we couldn't leave. So we were kind of stuck here. And we moved in with my mom and we were just kind of like waiting to get to Australia. I, we desperately wanted to have another baby. Really, I wanted it I wanted to be pregnant right away, you know, like, I just wanted to fill that emptiness with another baby.
01:13:25:18 - 01:13:47:13
Unknown
And it's very natural to feel that way. But at the same time, we also were like, let's not get pregnant until we get to Australia. Like, let's make this a stress free pregnancy and let's wait until, you know, we're in Australia. But then, you know, we were stuck here for so long and actually at that point was starting to really question whether we even wanted to move to Australia anymore.
01:13:47:13 - 01:14:07:01
Unknown
Even though we bought our property there, we'd shipped all of our belongings over. Oh my God. We put them on a ship in April of 2020, and the only reason that we hadn't left was because one of our two dogs got sick, and I didn't want to leave her and leave her with, like, my mum to put on the plane when she was better.
01:14:07:01 - 01:14:27:07
Unknown
I just felt really terrible leaving her. So we stayed because of her. And then all the flights ended and she ended up dying sadly. But like on the. She died at 9 p.m. on the night of the very last Qantas fly out of LA. That is what it is then. Yeah, we were not meant to move and we do nothing you could do about that.
01:14:27:08 - 01:14:49:10
Unknown
No. But yeah. So through 2020, we were living with my mom and, you know, starting to now say like, maybe we're not going to move to Australia. Like, they went really crazy during Covid and we were kind of terrified about that. So at that point I started to think, you know, maybe we should just, you know, open ourselves up to another soul coming in.
01:14:49:10 - 01:15:07:17
Unknown
And I was starting to think about that more and more. And I had a really amazing experience where I was walking on the beach near my mom's house and just thinking about this idea of like, inviting a soul in. And I was talking to slowly in my heart and just saying, like you, you let us know, like when the right time is.
01:15:07:20 - 01:15:29:20
Unknown
And I was walking like through the shallows in the ocean. And I saw something bobbing in the water up ahead. And I just kept walking. And eventually it bobbed all the way up and hit me, like on my shins in the water. And it was a sunflower, which was our symbol of Soleil. It's the way that still communicates with us to this day.
01:15:29:22 - 01:15:55:03
Unknown
And I was just like, oh my God. Yeah, okay. I just picked it up. I'm like looking around like, where did this flower come from? Well, yeah, I've had some crazy experiences with him sending me sunflowers, but that one was particularly wild floating in the ocean. And I actually found out I was pregnant just a couple of weeks later.
01:15:55:04 - 01:16:24:02
Unknown
Oh, so that was so special. And so at this point I'm thinking, you know, free birth, that dream. It's just not for me, for this life. Like I've had a stillborn baby. I'm not going to have a free birth, obviously. And I went to hire. I actually didn't hire them right away. I think I waited until I was about like 15 or 16 weeks before I reached out to the midwives that had supported us through Soleil.
01:16:24:04 - 01:16:46:03
Unknown
And they despite the like, things that had happened in the birth, their support of us in like the weeks following was just incredible. They really, you know, they held us so beautifully and so lovingly through that experience. So it was just quite natural for me to go. I want them again. But by that point, the main midwife had she was taking a sabbatical.
01:16:46:03 - 01:17:07:18
Unknown
So it was the assistant midwife, the one who had been with us for sales birth. So I was like, okay, you know, that's good. Like she'll be our midwife and I, I still hadn't seen her yet, but around like 19, 19, 20 weeks, I had my first like I mean, I had had a lot of fear already in the pregnancy.
01:17:07:18 - 01:17:28:11
Unknown
I'd never been scared of miscarriage before. Suddenly I was really scared about miscarriage. Every time I went to the bathroom was like, you know, hallucinating that I was seeing blood. And, and then it got to, like the 1920 week mark. And, you know, it's that point where, you know, you may be feeling the baby move, but if you're not, you can really get in your head about it.
01:17:28:11 - 01:17:49:16
Unknown
And I just was just paralyzed with fear for like a week straight. And finally I just reached out to the midwife and said, can I, can you please just can I come and can you listen for a heartbeat with the fetus scope? Because I'm just having so much fear. And she said, I can listen for a heartbeat, but I wouldn't recommend the fetus scope because we might not find a heartbeat with the fetus scope, and that I don't think that's going to help you.
01:17:49:16 - 01:18:09:18
Unknown
But she said, I can just be really quick with the Doppler if that's what you want. And I was like, I need that. So I went to her and she did like, you know, quickly put the Doppler on. And, you know, we heard our baby's heartbeat. And it was so weird because it was it really mirrored like the last time she'd been listening for a heartbeat was with Soleil.
01:18:09:20 - 01:18:31:16
Unknown
And there I am, lying on my back, and she finds the heartbeat and the same like tears come and she's having to help me roll them to my side again. And it was just like this mirrored experience, but with the beautiful outcome. So that was, you know, I needed that at that time. I needed that external confirmation.
01:18:31:18 - 01:19:07:05
Unknown
And honestly, I had said to myself at the start of the pregnancy, anything I need, if I feel to get an ultrasound, I'm going to do it, like whatever I need. But I never did feel that like just that one confirmation that day was was all I needed and had a very interesting experience where right at 30 weeks, which was the point with sleighs pregnancy where I had decided to hire midwives in this pregnancy, I suddenly realized I didn't want midwives, and it came in the same knowing of just like I don't, I don't need them and I don't want them.
01:19:07:05 - 01:19:28:04
Unknown
I want to do this with just me and my husband. And I know that it's right and I know it's right for this soul. I know it's right for this birth. So I had the conversation with my midwife and I told you, I'm, you know, I'm very loyal and non-confrontational. So I was terrified to have that conversation. But she was actually so beautiful.
01:19:28:04 - 01:19:46:15
Unknown
And she just said to me, look, you, you know, you had that feeling in souls pregnancy that you wanted midwives and that turned out to be the right decision. She said. If you feel now that you don't want midwives, she's like, I know you can trust that decision and that it's right for you. And she said, you know, you've got my full support.
01:19:46:15 - 01:20:09:13
Unknown
If you change your mind at any time, even in the middle of birth, I will be there for you. I will come. And having her, you know, having that external authority supporting me, it just felt really good. That's a very like it's a very loving sisterly thing to say. It was what she should have said exactly. Yeah. And she said it with no ego.
01:20:09:14 - 01:20:33:16
Unknown
You know, she was just like, full blessing and support. And. Yeah, so 41 weeks, I, you know, I kind of knew labor was coming because I was having my typical, like, sensations at night that would go in the day, sensations at night that would go in the day. So I knew that labor was coming and I was keeping the midwife updated.
01:20:33:18 - 01:20:50:03
Unknown
You know, I would just tell her like, this is what's happening for me. And she said later, like, I was so grateful to you that you, you know, that you still, like, let me know where you were at, even though you've chosen not to work with us anymore, she said. I really appreciated just knowing, like what was happening for you.
01:20:50:05 - 01:21:09:14
Unknown
And I never had no intention of calling her, but I just wanted to, I think just on a really human, again, sisterly level, like she was a part of, you know, she'll never forget you. Like, there's a there's a such a bonding that occurs even though she, like, did some weird stuff. But yeah. No, there was incredible.
01:21:09:17 - 01:21:48:11
Unknown
A deep, deep, deep, deep connection of being at your side during that, you know. And it does surpass like her professional midwifery hat into like what I would call her true midwifery like authentic midwifery self. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're totally right, Emilee. Yeah. So yeah, the the night before I had him, I was actually listening to a podcast of yours, and it was while I was listening to the podcast, that sensation started and they were coming like on the nose ten minutes, because I was like, watching the timer on the podcast, and I'm like, wow, like exactly ten minutes, exactly ten minutes.
01:21:48:16 - 01:22:17:02
Unknown
And I was in such such a good state, you know, mentally, emotionally, spiritually. You know, I'd worked through so many fears in the pregnancy and I just felt so ready to do this. And yeah, I slept that night, had sensations all through the night. And I woke up in the morning and I just felt so, like, druggy and spacey and weird and actually the sensations really died off.
01:22:17:02 - 01:22:37:06
Unknown
But I was like, I'm definitely having a baby today. Like, I feel so weird. It's so high. And, yeah, round around, like 1 p.m. I said to my husband, you know, sensations are starting up again. Kind of feels like I might have a baby in the day. And so we went into the bedroom, set up the birth pool.
01:22:37:06 - 01:23:11:03
Unknown
So we were living with my mum at this time, and she was really the only person who really knew that we were going to free birth. And she supported us completely. And she said, oh, look after, you know, your son while you birth. So we had our whole everything set up. And so she had my son and, you know, we were in the bedroom and I mean, it was just it was a beautiful birth, like just to birth without anyone around you, but the people that you really, truly need there, which for me was just my husband.
01:23:11:05 - 01:23:37:19
Unknown
It's just nothing. Can, you know, compare to that experience? You know, the freedom, the comfort, the like, the connection that you have to your own body because you're listening. You know, what should I do now? And you're just responding, and it's just this beautiful dance that you have with yourself and God as you're laboring. And it was just it was heaven, and it was a really quick birth.
01:23:37:19 - 01:24:02:08
Unknown
It was like, I mean, we went into the bedroom around 1 or 2, and he was born at 330. Wow. So yeah, I got into the into the tub like 45 minutes before he was born. And up until getting in the tub, I was actually experiencing pleasure in the contractions. Like I was lying down on the bed, which I'd never laid down in labor before, but I was like, wow.
01:24:02:09 - 01:24:30:14
Unknown
Like I can just lie down. And like, I was just welcoming it all and was actually like, sealing pleasure and was just amazed at that because, yeah, based on my two previous birds, like, I struggled to believe that was possible. But I'm like, wow, it really is possible. And then just that last like 40 minutes was super intense in the in the tub, you know, the hips and the, you know, there's just no feeling to compare baby moving through your body.
01:24:30:14 - 01:25:01:19
Unknown
It's just so wild. But, yeah, he, he came out one of the two best moments of my life. You know, I, I should say three because my son beat my first son, but at that moment was kind of spoiled by the midwives grabbing him and, you know, doing all these unnecessary things. But my third son being born, you know, just when he came out, I immediately saw him look up at me through the water, eyes wide open.
01:25:01:21 - 01:25:26:08
Unknown
And seeing that and knowing that he was okay was just it's a feeling that can't be described. And, you know, he's a little face looking up at me. And I brought him out of the water and he was already pink, you know, it was just like God gave me instant knowing that everything was okay. And also your first time getting to receive your own baby.
01:25:26:11 - 01:25:48:01
Unknown
Yes, it was, and it was so special. So special. I mean, this is the reason to birth in a pool, by the way, is because you can. There's no one passing the baby through the legs. You know, they're just right there. It depends how you do it. I guess it does depend how you do it. I kind of go for the side lunge instinctively, which then they'd come out in front of you.
01:25:48:03 - 01:26:08:20
Unknown
And so you are the one to just, like, pick them up. But yeah, that feeling and just also like I just read it, I did, you know, we did it. It was just us. And it was so amazing and so beautiful and, Yeah. And, you know, he cried right away and we saw it was another boy.
01:26:08:20 - 01:26:34:19
Unknown
And, you know, it was just. Yeah, it was one of the best days of my life, without a doubt. And then, you know, I started to feel really uncomfortable, like probably 5 or 10 minutes after he came out, which I later knew was the placenta sitting on my cervix. But I was bit placenta ignorant and let it sit there for like five hours.
01:26:34:20 - 01:26:54:03
Unknown
No one comes to the well, I didn't know that. That's what I was feeling like you had to pull it waiting to come out. I did actually try and traction it, but I was super afraid to traction it hard and I was trying to cough it out and squad it out. And my husband was like, laser focused on, we have to get this out.
01:26:54:03 - 01:27:13:17
Unknown
And I was like, no, it's fine. I've heard women in the free birth society that have it in for like ten, 12 hours. Yeah, but don't do that. Everyone I know, right. Everyone listening. Don't do that. Don't do that. Oh my gosh, do not do that. You don't need to do that. And if you feel really uncomfortable after you've given birth it's the placenta sitting.
01:27:13:19 - 01:27:35:11
Unknown
Yeah. And when you get it out you're going to feel incredible. But yes. What's the combo? You said you were placenta ignorant. There's something there like to print. I have to play with that. Listen, listen, there's something there that's totally.
01:27:35:13 - 01:28:00:18
Unknown
Not anymore though. Yeah. So actually, at the five hour mark, we called the midwife and we said, look, you know, we we had birth. Everything's beautiful about the placenta hasn't come out. And do you think you could come and help us with it? She said, yes, I'm going to get in the car and come right away. And she called us from the car and said, no, I just want to let you know that if I get there and I traction it and I can't get it out, I am going to recommend that you go to the hospital.
01:28:00:20 - 01:28:18:22
Unknown
And I was just like and we hung up and I just said to my husband, I'm like, I'm getting it out, let's go. We went to the bathroom, I think, yeah, we didn't cut the cord yet. So baby was still attached. And you know, he's holding baby. And I just grabbed it and I pulled it as hard as it needed to be pulled, which was quite hard.
01:28:18:23 - 01:28:36:08
Unknown
You're not going to hurt yourself, though, you know. Exactly. And also, I think because it had been so long, I actually had to pull harder because probably my cervix was not as open. But yeah, if you if you pull it out shortly after birth, you don't have to pull as hard as if you leave it five hours.
01:28:36:10 - 01:28:59:12
Unknown
Yeah, I mean, I after with Sawyer, I like curled it my finger around the cord and pulled so freaking hard. I mean, it had only been like probably eight minutes. Wow. I was like, I need a bed. I was, I don't know, maybe it didn't. I went into like I did, I went into like, warrior. I was so uncomfortable.
01:28:59:12 - 01:29:17:10
Unknown
I was like, this is coming down right now. And I pulled it so hard. And so when I told Sister Morningstar, she kept trying to correct me and was like, you guys did it. And I was like, I yanked. And he was like, well, that's one way to do it. I was like, I was not messing around. Well, that's pretty much what I did.
01:29:17:11 - 01:29:34:15
Unknown
You know, the word hospital. I was like, I'm getting it out right now. So I got it out. She arrived actually shortly after, and she was just like, I'm so happy that you completed your birth on your own. She's like, she was just, you know, she was so happy for her. She got to see, you know, our rainbow baby.
01:29:34:15 - 01:30:09:00
Unknown
And she just stayed for a little bit. And then she left. And, yeah, it was an stunning postpartum because, I mean, at least in my experience, free birth babies are insanely just peaceful and beautiful. And he was just an absolute, just angelic baby for two weeks till I made a really bad mistake, which was, yes, I he went and had tongue tie surgery, which our first son had also had at nine months old.
01:30:09:00 - 01:30:28:09
Unknown
So quite a different experience. But our third son, we saw actually the day he was born that he had a pretty severe tongue anterior tie, like all the way to the tip of the tongue. But he was nursing beautifully. So I thought, you know what? I'm just going to call like, call my lactation consultant and just see what she thinks.
01:30:28:11 - 01:30:50:19
Unknown
This was a lactation consultant I'd worked with extensively for years. She was almost like a family doctor. She was so knowledgeable about, like homeopathy and herbs and, you know, body work. And she was a tongue tie expert as well. What is it takes? But and she had like, yeah, I'd known her for years and years. She helped me after Soleil was born to, like, regulate my supply.
01:30:50:21 - 01:31:09:16
Unknown
I was actually still nursing my oldest then. So, you know, she she'd been in my life for, like, five years at that point. She was. I was very close to her, even though I'd never met her in person. We always worked online because she was on the East Coast. Oh, yeah. So I thought, I'll just have a call with her.
01:31:09:17 - 01:31:31:03
Unknown
This is when he was a few days old, and she, you know, she said you should get it done. Now. She's like, I know, like he's nursing fine. And but she said, you know, he may he may be getting enough milk now, but in a few weeks suddenly he's not getting enough milk. And by then your supplies already tanked and, you know, and then you can't get into a provider to have it done.
01:31:31:03 - 01:32:00:06
Unknown
And she just like, that's not good advice. No, it's terrible advice. It was the worst advice I've probably ever gotten in my life. Yeah, that actually makes no sense. Makes no sense to do it when it's not required. You know, I'm sure that he would have needed it at some point in his life because, you know, he had a real restriction of mobility because it was all the way weird that in in her, she knew that you had a nine month old revision.
01:32:00:08 - 01:32:27:07
Unknown
That's just. Yeah. And it really was the worst possible advice because it led to us having him revised at 15 days old. And it you know, it was a disaster. What do you mean? We still don't really know what happened, but he we had it done at a dentist in LA. And this is a dentist that my lactation consultant loved and worked with very closely.
01:32:27:07 - 01:32:54:08
Unknown
She would always refer people to this. Probably had never met. She's probably actually, you know, what they had met because this dentist had gone to a conference from the lactation consultant, and oddly enough, we had gone to this same dentist when my first son needed to be revised. And we met with her, and I really liked her. But I walked out of there with this intuitive feeling that said, do not get your baby revised by this woman, and I didn't.
01:32:54:14 - 01:33:17:22
Unknown
And here I am now like five years later, taking my other baby to be revised with her. And part of it was because it was 2021. It was Covid. You know, everyone was so crazy with masks and everything. And she was here in LA. Yeah, but she was like hellscape. She could see through it all. So she, you know, we had the feeling of like alignment.
01:33:18:00 - 01:33:36:14
Unknown
Oh but you know, she before she took him she said, I asked how long will he be gone just so I can like, you know, I know how intense it is to wait for your baby getting laser surgery. And she said, you know, 5 to 10 minutes. And I'm like, okay, because my first son was gone for six minutes, six agonizing minutes.
01:33:36:14 - 01:33:55:13
Unknown
It's really intense. And I said, okay. So she takes him, you know, he's we can hear him screaming. And I actually had to walk out of the building because it just didn't stop. And what I wish I could do is go back to the screaming and just run in there and say, give him to me. Like, I'm not doing this.
01:33:55:13 - 01:34:15:09
Unknown
But I just kept thinking like 5 to 10 minutes and then it's 15 minutes and then it's 20 and then it's 25 minutes. And at this point I'm like so distraught. I'm like nearly tearing my hair out. And I'm speaking to the woman at the desk and I'm like, what is going on? And she's acting super weird. Really weird.
01:34:15:09 - 01:34:35:17
Unknown
Like saying, oh, you know, nearly done, nearly done, like come into this room and you can wait for him here. And do you need to go to the bathroom? And I was like, no, I don't need to go to the bathroom. I want my baby. And she's like, okay, just come into the room. And then they carry him in the dentist and the assistant and the assistant wouldn't make eye contact with us.
01:34:35:19 - 01:34:57:12
Unknown
And our babies still screaming. And when he came, they carried him into the room. And now I locked eyes with him. I just instantly knew something terrible happened to him in there. I just knew it. Oh, and I don't know. I still to this day don't really know what happened, but something terrible happened and they never told us.
01:34:57:13 - 01:35:18:11
Unknown
They they covered it up. They lied on the report to fill in why it took so long. So she comes in with your screaming baby. And what is full of blood all underneath his tongue was full of blood. Now, Lazar, it shouldn't really bleed because a quarter, is it, right? Occasionally there can be a drop or two.
01:35:18:13 - 01:35:42:16
Unknown
But his mouth was full of blood. And this is when he's been gone 25 minutes. So clearly they were. They had. I think what happened is I think he bled like a crazy amount. He hadn't had a vitamin K shot. Obviously he was 15 days old, but I think he bled a crazy amount. And I think he choked on his blood, on his own blood, because he screamed pretty much the whole time he was gone.
01:35:42:16 - 01:36:04:13
Unknown
But there was one point in the middle where it was dead silent. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was horrific. And the worst part was just like my beautiful, free birthed baby was that that version of him was gone and never really came back, I have to say. I know, and it's really I really it's important to me to share.
01:36:04:13 - 01:36:27:21
Unknown
This story is heavy. It's so heavy in my heart because I just want mothers to know that even though this is a rare occurrence, it can happen. And I don't know if you read those two New York Times articles, they were shared in the in the membership. They came out like earlier this year about like cases like my son, like I read those articles and I was like, well, this is my son.
01:36:27:21 - 01:36:49:04
Unknown
And most of these babies ended up in the hospital on feeding tubes because they would never nurse again. And they had so much trauma in their mouth, they would never nurse, they would never take a bottle, and they ended up on feeding tubes. And I swear my son was this close to being one of those babies because he was so traumatized, like he screamed whenever he was awake for weeks on end.
01:36:49:04 - 01:37:09:13
Unknown
And even when he was asleep, his body was like in his back was arched and his little limbs was stiff. It was like his nervous system just could not. Yeah, just totally shot. He nursed, though. Eventually he did. He didn't nurse for quite a few hours and I was just like, oh my God, he's never going to nurse again.
01:37:09:14 - 01:37:26:17
Unknown
Like, I'm now the mother of one of those babies who never nursed again after a revision. Because I had heard of that. It was always my worst nightmare. And in fact, the reason why I hadn't gotten my first son's revision done when he was younger was for that. Because of that very outcome, I was just like, it's not worth it ever.
01:37:26:18 - 01:37:58:23
Unknown
I mean, this is not, you know, a critique of you, obviously, but like, it's crazy how quick people are to revision. It's crazy. Like, I mean, you know, I totally change camps on this topic. So I'm with you, I and I think it's, you know, it's it's so it's so normalized when it is surgery in the mouth of a newborn baby, the most sensitive being you could, you know, is a is a human baby.
01:37:59:00 - 01:38:21:22
Unknown
Well, why are we all against circumcision? And everyone's getting. Exactly. I'm not saying it's a one for one. No, but yeah, the mouth is also an incredibly vulnerable part of the body. And I think it's very complicated for a new mom. I think nursing with pain, which you weren't doing, but I think, you know, nursing with serious restriction and pain is a nightmare.
01:38:22:00 - 01:38:48:12
Unknown
And, you know, there are old ways of doing. I mean, you know, I've never had both my kids have ties, but not to the degree that I ever needed to entertain any of this stuff. And so I say this, having not actually walked it so humbly, you know, but I imagine that the only person that would be cutting anything would be me.
01:38:48:14 - 01:39:19:21
Unknown
As hard as that is to consider. But like, you know, there used to be an old kind of midwives practice of why she had the extra long nail. The. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. That's really intense. Another thing I think about when I hear your story and again, this is not specific to you. It's just like the whole thing is just the I guess I don't know a better word for it, like the willingness that women have to leave their babies.
01:39:20:00 - 01:39:46:00
Unknown
Oh, I know, I mean, this is the thing that is, I have struggled with so much since this, which was three years ago now, is that I left. I, I delivered him into her arms and walked like I actually left him. And it's actually something I would say to anyone listening who is considering getting this surgery. If you are going to do it, do not accept that you can't be in the room because we would.
01:39:46:05 - 01:40:07:13
Unknown
You can't be in the room because of laser. You know, you are my business. I'm going to be in the room. Yeah, like never leave your baby with a medical provider getting everyone does it sky like no one does do it. Obviously when they're born in the system, it's in the design, you know, from you know obviously. Yeah.
01:40:07:16 - 01:40:29:00
Unknown
And everyone does it. And then and then, you know, these, these so-called providers just say that's not how we do things. So then you're at a standstill. And if somebody really believes they need this revision and they're up all night crying and cracked nipples and did it like the sheer desperation makes it so easy to pray on and to set whatever, you know, medical professional boundaries they want.
01:40:29:01 - 01:40:56:17
Unknown
But yes, for anyone listening like find, I mean, I just think about it like I wouldn't want anyone to touch my baby who didn't respect the mother baby connection and that we need, like, I need to see what happens to my baby and I need to be standing next to them. And and if someone's, like, wants to cut that out, that's not a provider that I want.
01:40:56:18 - 01:41:18:12
Unknown
Touching my baby. Yeah, I get complicated. But yeah, but you can just insist, you know. So even if they tell you you can't be in the room, just say, well, I have to be or I won't do it with you. Yeah. Never let them take your baby away. Well, now that so many people do it. Yes. Yeah. And that is a brutal story, my friend.
01:41:18:14 - 01:41:43:21
Unknown
Brutal. So brutal. And, you know, it was like we were reliving all the same emotions that we went through with Sally. The grief, the regret, the, you know, the guilt, the like. It was just all the same emotions. And I just said to my husband, we'd like, recreated that experience from in a totally different way. So yeah, it was it was horrible.
01:41:43:21 - 01:42:04:13
Unknown
We never really worked out exactly what happened to him. We took him to another because he just screamed whenever he was awake, like three. A couple of days later, we took him to another, like, provider, like an, you know, throat doctor. And we were just like, what's wrong with him? Like, what is it? And she looked at like the, the revision sites and she's like, look, it all looks pretty standard.
01:42:04:13 - 01:42:26:05
Unknown
Like, I don't know, but you know, she's like, I'm going to ask for a report of what happened from the dentist. And this is where she totally lied like her, like little rundown of the events made no sense and was really just to fill in the fact that he was gone for so long. But why? So when she gives you the baby and you're like, it was 25 minutes, what happened?
01:42:26:07 - 01:42:47:13
Unknown
He's not just he just said, oh, that's that's just how long. Yeah, that's how long it took. Everything went fine. And I was calling her for like days afterwards. Like just saying, like sobbing, begging her. Are you sure? There. You know, there wasn't something that happened. Like, did he, you know, and actually, that's one thing. The next day, all of his poopy diapers were blood colored.
01:42:47:13 - 01:43:07:07
Unknown
So he had swallowed masses of blood. And when I called her and said, I didn't tell her that, I just said, you know, I just I said, I've got a lot of questions for you. Can I ask these questions? I'm just trying to work out what's wrong with him, because, you know, he's distraught. And I asked her, like, did he bleed?
01:43:07:07 - 01:43:27:19
Unknown
Would you say a normal amount? Like minimal, excessive. And she's like, oh, normal. So I knew she was lying. His mouth was full of blood. His his diapers were full of blood. So she brought a lawyer into her fucking office. I know, I still usually you sign everything away. I'm sure when you agreed to let her do that.
01:43:27:19 - 01:43:52:05
Unknown
But just like I want you to handle the, like, gas, I know the the what you said. Like you would need to see what happened to your baby. That part of not knowing what happened to him was torture. Because it somehow felt like I couldn't help him unless I needed these, the missing piece. And so I'm trying to, like, even to, like, articulate it to him.
01:43:52:06 - 01:44:12:08
Unknown
Like, sweetheart, you know, what happened was this and the blood and and then you choked because you were trying so hard to breathe, like even the articulation to just help him integrate it. And then obviously for yourself as well. I mean, you know, mothers and babies should not be separated, period. Ever. I mean, when they're little like that for any reason, much less a trauma.
01:44:12:09 - 01:44:37:08
Unknown
I mean, I get that there are times where life, you know, yes, emergencies are required and all of that. But yeah, I feel you. That's a really I was super heavy. And so yeah, again, I just say like, never let your baby be separated from you for any medical procedure. Always be there with them so that even if something does go wrong, at least you know what it is and you can help them heal.
01:44:37:10 - 01:44:57:08
Unknown
I really struggled to help him. He'll because you know, I just didn't know. And that really tortured me. Of course, their perspective is the last thing I need is a hysterical mom. Yeah. Getting up in my biz. Well, that's why they say they have the BS about the laser regulations. I'm sure it's not real. It's just they just don't want you in there, which I get.
01:44:57:09 - 01:45:15:17
Unknown
I wouldn't want you in there either. Like, I completely understand, you know, when I get to be a doula and they'd be like, you guys all have to leave for the epidural, and we would be like, that's fucked up. Like we're her support, you know, people. And also they're going to mess it up. They're going to puncture, you know, they're going to do all the stuff.
01:45:15:18 - 01:45:20:00
Unknown
Of course they don't want us watching.
01:45:20:01 - 01:45:46:02
Unknown
Painful. Okay. So really sabotage my own postpartum though with that one. So I'm assuming you did not maintain friendship with the terrible advice giver. Oh, she gaslit me like you would not believe. Yeah, that's wrong with everyone. No, you know what? Why can't you just be like. I'm so sorry, period. Done. Yeah. She just me, like you wouldn't believe.
01:45:46:02 - 01:46:07:12
Unknown
We called her on the day. We were, like, halfway home, and he was just screaming. And I called her and I sobbing, and I'm like, something's wrong. Like, I know this isn't normal. I saw my son go through this like, this is not normal. And she was basically she was at some conference and she was basically shouting at me on the phone saying, Sky, listen to me.
01:46:07:12 - 01:46:30:12
Unknown
It's muscle fatigue, okay? I've seen it a thousand times. It's muscle fatigue. It's not even pain. It's just muscle fatigue. And I have yeah, I had this whole homeopathy protocol to support him through the pain, which I had used with my first son, and it worked beautifully. It's her actually her homeopathy protocol. It was doing nothing for this, for this son.
01:46:30:14 - 01:46:48:04
Unknown
This was totally. Yeah, this was and I was saying to my yeah, I sang to my lactation consultant, I have to I have to give him Tylenol. I have to give him something. And she's like, don't give him Tylenol. Tylenol does nothing for pain. He's too young to give Motrin. Don't give him painkillers. He's not in pain. It's not pain.
01:46:48:06 - 01:47:07:08
Unknown
It's muscle fatigue. I'm like, it's not muscle fatigue. Yeah. Like if you were here, if you could see him, you would know it's not. But she just rejected like everything I said. And like the next day she called me and she's like, are you doing the exercises? I'm like, are you kidding? I can't put my fingers anywhere near his mouth.
01:47:07:09 - 01:47:25:18
Unknown
And she's like, you have to do the exercises, guy. And yeah. God, yeah, he was crazy. And in the end she said, I'm going to speak to the dentist. She spoke to her and she was like, yep. She told me everything that happened at all. It all checks out at all in your head, sky. Yeah. That's honestly little mother.
01:47:25:22 - 01:47:44:21
Unknown
Yeah. Do you know what she said to me? What she put it down to? She said he's got reflux because I sent her videos. This is the other thing I'm nursing. Relationship was destroyed. He couldn't. He choked on my milk. Every time he pulled off, he screamed and thrashed and cried. He would hold his breath until he nearly passed out.
01:47:44:23 - 01:48:03:22
Unknown
I know, and I sent her videos of him and I'm like, look at him. Like, what? You can't tell me that nothing happened to him. And she's like, that's reflux. Oh my God. Wow. And she's like, I normally don't say that coincidences are real, but she's like, in this case, I think he, you know, he was right at the age when you got the revisions that he would develop reflux.
01:48:03:23 - 01:48:21:09
Unknown
And I'm like, so do you think he developed reflux in the room? Like in the 25 minutes he was gone? The only thing that would make sense to make sure that no one has to take any responsibility. Right. And so I said to her, I was like, I don't think you can help me anymore because I don't feel like you're hearing me.
01:48:21:10 - 01:48:44:04
Unknown
And she never wrote back. Yeah, that seems that was the end of that relationship. Yeah. So now he's three. And you know, I would say around like getting closer to his first birthday, my husband and I felt like we're kind of getting him back, like, this is the river that we feel we knew in the first couple of weeks, you know.
01:48:44:06 - 01:49:08:20
Unknown
But yeah, he just, you know, he I would even say to this day that there are emotional patterns that we, my husband and I feel came from that experience. And when he turned to it was like a pivotal moment where I think all of the trauma that he was carrying started to come up for healing, and it ended up being very healing for both of us.
01:49:08:22 - 01:49:36:17
Unknown
Like over the last year, because he just turned three, I've done a lot of, like healing work with him, both with together with him and some on my own, because a lot of it was just the trauma that I was also carrying from that experience. And I feel, you know, we used a lot of the aware parenting type method, which is where you really just like hold and let them just sob, you know, let them even rage.
01:49:36:20 - 01:49:59:12
Unknown
You don't let them get violent, but you really hold and support them through these huge emotions. And when I learned to do that with him, it was kind of a turning point where he had so much to come out and I really had to. I had to hold space for him through some really crazy meltdowns, tantrums. But on the other side of it, they just kind of became fewer and fewer.
01:49:59:12 - 01:50:23:00
Unknown
And I would say he's still like a very sensitive and emotional kid. But, you know, a lot of healing has happened, and I no longer, you know, torture myself with the guilt and regret of making the decision, even though I still wish I could go back and not make that decision. Well, someone's going to hear this and not.
01:50:23:05 - 01:50:50:15
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. And look, some I'm not saying that no babies need it. Of course. I mean I would say I would I would not get it done in the first like a month. Well because. Yeah okay. I mean if you really need it though. And they're not nursing. Right. Like of course there are exceptions to that kind of an extra painful situation because you didn't need to do it so early.
01:50:50:17 - 01:51:15:13
Unknown
Exactly. You know, I mean, of course I've seen babies that, like, aren't nursing. Yes. And if your baby's not nursing, like. Yeah. Or they're nursing in a way that is resulting in the mom screaming and you know. Yeah. And even then, I mean, I don't think I would do revision, I think I would. Yeah, it's actually so many other things you can do.
01:51:15:14 - 01:51:35:13
Unknown
You know, there's so much body work that you can do. And I actually want to add that with, with him. We did like everything right. We did all the body work leading up to it. We did all the like facial exercises leading up to it, like we prepared him beautifully and still had this outcome. So it wasn't that we didn't do things right.
01:51:35:13 - 01:51:58:03
Unknown
We actually did them like by the book. With any surgery, there's going to be a percent that gets botched. It's just yeah, and of course it's a small percent, but it's still an inherently traumatic thing because it's a surgery on a on a brand new baby. And I'm grateful he had two weeks of knowing that the world is a beautiful, safe place.
01:51:58:05 - 01:52:24:03
Unknown
But yeah, having that big trauma at that age was pretty impactful on him. Yeah. We're going to move into your most recent, which at the time of this recording was only three months ago and was finally your sweet little girl. Yes. My girl. Yeah. So, yes, we, I, you know, I just had a most beautiful pregnancy ever.
01:52:24:05 - 01:52:52:04
Unknown
I had none of the things that I had in the other three pregnancies. Barely any morning sickness, no migraines, no pain. I didn't even really feel pregnant until 37 weeks. I was like, oh, now I feel like big and cumbersome and pregnant. Well, it was just the most beautiful journey. And, which I was 40 when I got pregnant and was thinking, okay, this pregnancy could be a little harder because I'm, you know, in my 40s now, and it actually was the by far the easiest, most enjoyable pregnancy.
01:52:52:05 - 01:53:12:23
Unknown
So I just loved every second of it. And I did still have, you know, some fears come up. I had the same fear come up at the 20 week mark about not feeling the baby move, and I very nearly went. I reached out to like the midwife that I hired for Sally, the one who never attended the birth.
01:53:13:01 - 01:53:29:03
Unknown
I reached out to her and was like, you know, asked her like a couple of questions about it. And she was like, if you want to come, I can listen to the heart tones. And I just was like, you know what? No, I want to I want to get through this on my own. I want to face this fear and move through it on my own.
01:53:29:03 - 01:53:53:10
Unknown
And I did, and I was really proud of myself by doing that. So it was a truly wild pregnancy from start to finish. My first wild pregnancy, because both Soleil and River, I had had midwives for various parts of it. So the wild pregnancy was just, you know, it's just heaven. And yeah, I loved every second and went into labor with her in.
01:53:53:16 - 01:54:17:17
Unknown
She was born March 22nd, and I had my same pattern of like sensations at night for a couple of nights before, and just had the most, like, beautiful, peaceful birth with her. I mean, my sensations were so mild, so short and so far apart that I was just like, can I, can I really birth a baby this way?
01:54:17:18 - 01:54:53:15
Unknown
Like, is this? And my husband's like, just go with it, you know? And I was just like lying back in the pool, truly relishing every second of it and again feeling like real pleasure and just being, like, grateful for every sensation. And, you know, just it was just perfect. And just the very last 20 minutes is when I got super heavy, but just 20 minutes and actually have been going so slowly that I said to my husband, like, I think you should turn off the video because I think you're going to run out of space on your phone.
01:54:53:20 - 01:55:10:10
Unknown
And he turned it off. And I swear within 60s boom! Suddenly I was like, oh my. Did you turn it back on? Well, I said, you can't turn it back on. You can't move. Don't leave me. Just stay right there. I needed him to hold my hips and I was like, you can't just stay right there. Stay right there.
01:55:10:10 - 01:55:30:19
Unknown
And then my water broke. And after my water broke, there was a few seconds of, like, relief, and I was like, running, turn it back on. So I'm so glad he did, because I can watch that moment for her emergence and finding out she was a girl over and over and over. This is another just like most incredible moment.
01:55:30:19 - 01:55:53:22
Unknown
I had felt that she was a girl very strongly in the pregnancy. But of course, after three boys I was loathe to even really buy into it. But yeah, she, she came out in just, I think like three contractions. She was out three like very big, powerful, amazing contractions. She was out. She came out into the water in front of me.
01:55:53:22 - 01:56:17:13
Unknown
I saw her little face, like, scrunch up under the water. And I just actually left her, like, suspended there in the water for a few seconds. Just like marveling and trying to just imprint this moment into my psyche. Because you know how it gets so blurry later. And yeah, lifted her out and held her to me. And after, I don't know, 30s or so like, went to check.
01:56:17:14 - 01:56:34:15
Unknown
Is it a boy or a girl? And I actually thought I saw balls because the umbilical cord was lying like right across. So the volva really kind of looked like balls. And I said, I think it's a boy. And then I moved the cord and I'm like, it's like, oh, it was just like, oh, such an amazing moment.
01:56:34:16 - 01:57:01:19
Unknown
You know, just to have both I know, you know, is just super special. And had she been another boy, I would have been honored, you know, to have been chosen as a mom of boys. But, yeah, having a girl, having a daughter, having this most special and beautiful birth, and then all of the knowledge that I've taken from all of my other experiences to protect my baby, protect my postpartum, you know, we didn't leave the house for like, the first month.
01:57:01:19 - 01:57:23:05
Unknown
Everything was just. And she's just the most serene baby. Yeah. So it's been an amazing postpartum. We did have some stuff happen with the county and the birth certificate where they really tried to sabotage us registering her birth. They were lying to us and telling us, well, you didn't receive prenatal care, so you can't register your birth.
01:57:23:05 - 01:57:42:15
Unknown
You have to wait until she's a year and do a delayed registration. And then we realized they were lying and called them out on it. And then they were. We were threatened to report them, and they got really freaked out. And then they were super hot, man, because they don't know, you know, they they think, you know, it's all this one way and it's yeah, we usually don't even actually know the rules.
01:57:42:16 - 01:58:01:20
Unknown
Yeah. No. Yeah. So that was the only and it wasn't even a hiccup, you know. But it was the only thing in the postpartum was them just trying to make our life difficult around that. But yeah, they thought you were trying to make their life difficult. Yeah, right. I dare you not have medical records. Yeah. Wow. Big stories.
01:58:01:22 - 01:58:30:09
Unknown
Big stories. Yeah. Amazing stories. Yeah. I feel so blessed by all of them. You know, it's so nice to hear them all. Thank you, Emilee, so much. Yeah. Thank you. Thanks for sharing. You know, even the even the hard parts. Yeah. Because women will really, really learn a lot from this.
01:58:30:11 - 01:58:39:14
Unknown
Well, I love you. Thank you so much for everything you do. I love you, too.
01:58:39:16 - 01:59:05:01
Unknown
I hope you enjoyed the show today. You can support this podcast by donating to it through the link in the show notes below. And of course, leaving an awesome review on whatever platform you listen on. The more reviews, the more visibility the show gets. So let's spread the good word of sovereign birth. Don't forget, you can watch our podcast interviews on YouTube and see the women as they tell their birth and power stories.
01:59:05:01 - 01:59:37:12
Unknown
And you'll also find our viral free birth collection of epic raw birth videos on our YouTube. Make sure you're subscribed to our channel! We've always got a lot going on at Free Birth Society, and you can find out all about it at Fribourg Society, at Fryeburg Society on Instagram, and opt in to my newsletter below. We offer courses on free birth, authentic midwifery, the blood Mysteries, as well as one on one coaching, in-person retreats and of course, our annual women's gathering, the Matriarch Rising Festival.
01:59:37:13 - 02:00:02:16
Unknown
Our exclusive private vetted membership. The Lighthouse is definitely something to check out if you're looking for a community of wise sisters to get guidance from and to meet in real life. Together we rise. Sisters. We must speak our stories, fully, claim our lives, and support one another. This is the living revolution and I am so grateful to be in it with all of you.
02:00:02:16 - 02:00:38:08
Unknown
I'll leave you with our gorgeous free birth society theme song, Wild Woman by Aruba read I honor you for the wisdom you held, the ancient traditions of plant medicine and womb magic. Magic. I feel the spirit of the ancestors as I place my hands upon my belly. This sacred portal will be honored eons upon light beams of survival, withstanding the eradication of our power by design.
02:00:38:10 - 02:01:04:17
Unknown
I will not allow the separation of our young to be forced upon me. My sisters will no longer birth in captivity. The picket line redefined from burning our wild women to paralyzing us and drugging our babes, strapped down in a clinical white bed, drying up the milk from our breasts. Keep your needles. My family will never again be doomed to chase those dragons.
02:01:04:17 - 02:01:30:20
Unknown
All your poison. We reject your fear. We choose love. Everything with intention, death, ascension. I will fly and bring her back to the stars. Just watch us. While the moon. She still lives inside.
02:01:30:22 - 02:01:37:19
Unknown
Wild woman from you I will not hide.
02:01:37:21 - 02:01:52:16
Unknown
They could not bend your spirits away. So please teach me away I'm ready to love from you while.
02:01:52:18 - 02:02:00:01
Unknown
I still run around with the wolves. When it's time.
02:02:00:03 - 02:02:07:12
Unknown
I still run, run, run, run. We were all once wild.
02:02:07:14 - 02:02:14:21
Unknown
I still round running. Run with the wolves when the sky.
02:02:14:23 - 02:02:20:09
Unknown
We all came from. While the woman.
