Speaker 0
Into the wild, I'm going into the wild, I am. It's been a wild freedom child, since I left my roots back home. Into the wild I'm good. Into the wild I am. It's been a while, freedom child, since I left my roots back home.
Speaker 1
Welcome to the Free Birth Society podcast. This is a radical space for women who are ready to celebrate their autonomous choices in birth, motherhood, and beyond. Together, we'll learn about wild birth through personal narrative, we'll explore the politics of birth, and we'll analyze everything that relates to our lives as women from a feminist perspective. Here's your host, Emilee Saldaya.
Speaker 0
It's been a wild freedom check since I've left my roots back home.
Speaker 2
Morgan.
Speaker 3
Hi.
Speaker 2
Can you believe it?
Speaker 3
No. I'm so happy to be here. Finally.
Speaker 2
I love it. So this is a an extra special episode for me today because Morgan is an IRL friend, which are always fun. I guess we should have maybe tried to just film this together. I need studio.
Speaker 3
Yes. Yes. You do.
Speaker 2
We could. If I just don't know anything like tech I don't know how to set one up, but we could use one of the yurts. You know?
Speaker 3
That's very true. Because it would be space.
Speaker 2
Because you're just, like, down the road
Speaker 3
from me. Literally.
Speaker 2
But, anyway, so this is a special episode because Morgan is from my our community here in this sweet little town that I've fallen in love with, and you vended at MRF, and so a lot of our community has your threads now. Yes. And you've rebirthed your baby. You were my nanny at the last two festivals ago.
Speaker 3
Yes.
Speaker 2
And, yeah, you're just I mean, you know this, but everyone else doesn't know this, that you are a part of, this really sweet local crew that has connected with me, Julia, and Erica who have moved here, to this area. And Morgan and and her best friend is Riley, who's our school teacher, and their other best friend is Jamie, who is also in the mix with us. And so, yeah, the very I mean, it's it's cool and special, but, also, Jamie's at my house right now, and I just told her that I was about to talk to you. And, like, we're really changing the culture of Haysville.
Speaker 3
Oh, absolutely. You know? Totally, totally are.
Speaker 2
Which is, like, I know I'm doing it, like, on a on a planetary scale, but but you and Tessa and, like, things are happening locally in a real way. You know? So, anyways, it's cool because it's a tangible way to see the ripple effects of of what we're about and what we're doing.
Speaker 3
Absolutely. It's crazy because, me and Raleigh used to always be like, I feel like something big is gonna happen here. I don't know why, but we just feel like, before you ever moved here, and then, like, we're like, I think this is what we were talking about.
Speaker 2
That some crazy chick moved to your town?
Speaker 3
Yeah. Some crazy chick that just brought all these amazing things and Blew
Speaker 2
it up.
Speaker 3
An amazing festival, an amazing community.
Speaker 2
I know. I do imagine, like, being local, like Ellie coming this year and being local and, like, realizing that this happens here. You know? I mean, even with our school, like, that's not a normal part of the
Speaker 3
Oh, absolutely. I mean culture. There's a lot of women here that appreciate it, though, more than I would have thought.
Speaker 2
Yeah. I mean, it's the new way, the old way. The old way is the new way. Alright. Let's get into it, girl. So who the heck were you before this pregnancy? You know, how did you how did you, yeah, kinda, like, orient around the medical system and and then tell us about this baby and and this pregnancy and your choices. And at what point do you even know that you're gonna make the choices you make and just kinda start us at the beginning?
Speaker 3
So, before this pregnancy, well, I will say I've always I've never been one to, like, be in the medical system. Like, I kinda always knew that I I guess it was something I never really thought about much in my early twenties because I was I didn't have a baby in my horizon then, but I definitely kind of always knew that I wasn't going to birth in a traditional way. And then Well, non traditional
Speaker 2
in a in a modern way.
Speaker 3
Yeah. In a modern way. Right.
Speaker 2
Tradition, like right. Yeah. Totally. Birth is how we've always birthed.
Speaker 3
Yes. Yes. So in a in a medical
Speaker 2
life. Yeah.
Speaker 3
But, so I actually was living in Asheville in the Asheville area, and, COVID happened. And that's what, like, kind of made me and Riley both we were both living out there, and that's what made us come back. And, I came back home, and she, like, not too long after that, met you while she was bartending, I think.
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
And, I guess that's when, like, it started I didn't realize then, but that's when it kinda started coming into my, you know, life of me thinking about, okay. Like, how how am I gonna do this? Like, what what is the life that I'm gonna create, and how am I going to bring my children into this world, and how am I going to raise them? And so that's when, like, that all started coming up for me, I suppose. And,
Speaker 2
You were already married at that point?
Speaker 3
Yes. Already married. Eli and I got married in two thousand nineteen. So, yes, we moved back here, I believe, in at the end of twenty twenty. So, but it's crazy really, like, my I decided I we did conscience consciously conceive. And whenever I was not in a great place. Whenever I did get pregnant, like, I just I wasn't living the life that I really had imagined for myself and had a job that I wasn't really into. And I had kind of, like, decided I was like, okay. Like, I'm about to go through a major transformation with this in becoming a mother. And I was like, I'm gonna use this as a catalyst to transform my life into what I want it to be. Like, I'm gonna stop, you know, working places that I don't wanna work and spending my time on things that I just am not inspired by. And my original plan was, that after I had the baby, I wasn't gonna go back to my job. And I just remember I was sitting at my desk one day in the beginning of my pregnancy, and I was like, I can't do this this entire pregnancy. Like, I'm gonna be miserable. It's going to affect me and my baby negatively. Like, something's gotta give. I can't finish out this job for the remaining seven months or however longer I had. And that day, Riley actually contacted me and was like, hey. Like, Emilee's looking for a nanny. And, I think I FaceTimed you that day or the next day, and I put in my notice for my job and decided to come work for you, which was, like, a godsend. Like, I absolutely had the most amazing pregnancy because I was basically in, like, a sanctuary for pregnant women, like, at your house every day. It was this awesome. And, like, I'm nannying your baby, and I think Sawyer was only, like, three months old at the time.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Because I think when
Speaker 3
I was in
Speaker 2
Dominican Republic, I remember because I was, like, in my bathing suit. And Yeah. So, yeah, we went there when he was eight weeks and then came back, yeah, like, two months later, and you started as soon as we were back.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Exactly. So, I mean, all my whole pregnancy was just I mean, I had such an easy pregnancy, and it was just so all of it was just great, honestly. Like, couldn't have asked for a better situation with that. And, of course, like, just having you there, anytime I had questions, anytime I had any concerns, with you at work every day. So it was like it worked out really perfectly.
Speaker 2
Yeah. I would be like
Speaker 3
And, yeah, I got to go to
Speaker 2
be like I'd, like, come in from my office and which is independent of my home, and I would hear my voice in the like, in one of the rooms, and I'd be like, what the fuck is that? And it would be you listening to the podcast.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2
I'm like, I'm like, woah. Woah.
Speaker 3
Taking care of a baby and listening to the Freebird Society podcast while another one was getting filmed in the Oh, no. You know, office over. Yeah. But, yeah, it was great. And it was great that it was kinda I was almost at forty weeks whenever matriarch rising happened. And I was good, though, so I decided just to work it out. And
Speaker 2
Thank god.
Speaker 3
My nanny saw her the entire time. Yeah. It all worked out perfectly.
Speaker 2
Remember how sick he was?
Speaker 3
Yes. He was so sick. He was so sick. Sick. That was hard. Very hard.
Speaker 2
And I have a picture of you. It's so hot. You're so pregnant, and you're wearing him on top of your belly just being super nanny about to give birth.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. I was, like, staring around all over at the festival. That was funny. But yeah. So that was
Speaker 2
was your pregnancy was was pretty chill, it seemed, from the outside.
Speaker 3
Oh, yeah. It was it was awesome. I have literally no complaints about my pregnancy. I mean, it was also cool because I had Zephyr maybe I think it was a week and a half after the festival, so I was, like, coming off the box of the festival and, like, just already getting in that whole, like, mind space, and it was great.
Speaker 2
And so you chose a wild pregnancy. Like, tell tell me about that. I mean, I know it's kind of a unique scenario of you actually being directly, like, in in my field, but but, like, when so maybe this is an obvious question, but I just wanna hear more about your process with it. Like, when did you decide to have a wild pregnancy? Why did you decide that? How did that get navigated within your marriage and your family? You know, did you tell people? Did you not tell people? Like, flesh out all of that. You know? Because, of course, like, this is what women are dealing with when they're trying to decide what to do. So, yeah, when did when did you, like, learn about these choices, and why did you choose them, and how did it actually kinda look in your pregnancy?
Speaker 3
So, I I decided well, I I will say I did go to a local midwife twice at the beginning of my pregnancy. And I just got blood work done, and I found out the gender of the baby. But, I I think really what led me to absolutely choose that is all of the stories that I had heard of, you know, things going wrong. And it was, like, not even just I obviously heard a lot of those stories through you and your podcast, but even just, like, the women in my life, like my mother, my grandmothers. And it was like they didn't even realize that it was a negative thing and that it was a traumatizing experience and experience that they had had. And so that definitely pushed me more towards, staying out of the medical system completely. And my husband was onboard from the beginning. I mean, he didn't question me. He never had any doubts in me. He was just and I'm very lucky, to have had that because it was it just makes it not that obviously, you can you can do it without that support, but having that support makes it just that much less stress on you and, like, having your partner have your back on everything. And, you know, if anyone did have any comments to say about it, he was he was there and had my back. And, there I told most of my family and his family, but there were some people that I had to hide it from. Well, I say I had to hide it from. I did not have to hide it from them, but I chose to hide it from them. And but it's crazy. Once, you know, once I gave birth and everything went well, nobody really had anything to say about it after that. It was just like there were a few people in my life that did have, like, doubts and that we're fearing because of my choices to give birth, you know, at home with just my husband. And, but that all kinda dissipated. And I I will say I actually, I remember I was talking to you one day about this, whenever I was working for you, and I was just like, it sucks that I have to lie about these things. And you just looked at me and you were like, you don't have to lie about these things. You're choosing to lie about them. And I was like, oh my god. And I was like, you're right. Like, I don't have to make other people feel comfortable, which seems, like, so minuscule, but, like, that is a huge thing for women to truly, you know, grasp onto and say, like, I'm gonna be myself, and I'm gonna just say this is what I'm doing, and it's not your life. You know?
Speaker 2
Like, imagine your world. Imagine. One day, imagine if one day, all the women on the planet didn't lie.
Speaker 3
Exactly. I mean, it's just crazy. Premise. That's actually a great
Speaker 2
that's a great premise for a book or a story.
Speaker 3
Like Definitely.
Speaker 2
What would happen?
Speaker 3
And it's like sometimes, like, I didn't even realize. Like, I was, like, unconsciously lying, like, unconsciously, like, watering myself down. Mhmm. And I don't do that anymore, and it's very liberating. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Well and I understand. I mean, unconsciously, we're doing it because we are motivated to garner approval, and we want to again, this is largely unconscious, but we wanna control how other people perceive us. And because we are, making up, you know, so many stories all the time about other people, then we unconsciously try to perform in such a way that our projection of them thinks they want. Right? So it's like this whole one-sided game. Like, you're actually doing the whole thing within yourself, but you feel you you, you know, by you, I mean, all of us, you know, think that it's something that you're doing for them. But even that's a lie. It's all within ourselves, and it is liberating. I also understand that it's risky. It's there's risk, you know, in being who you really are. Mhmm. And those women out there courageous enough to do it or at the very least inch towards it, the the bullshit just shakes off. And so, yeah, what's left is, like, real. And, god, doesn't that feel good? I want you to close your eyes for a moment and picture this with me. It's summer solstice. You're in the Blue Ridge Mountains surrounded by wild women, sleeping under the stars, waking up to women singing in circle, and filling your days with expansive workshops, inspiring performances, and healing ceremonies, all with the sisters you've hoped to find for your entire life. From embodied dance classes, to workshops on holistic pelvic care, to transmuting the sister wound ceremonies, day in day out, it is high vibes. And the best part, it's women only. And it feels so, so good. This is the essence, the magic of Matriarch Rising. The luxury five night camping retreat here on my very, very special land in Western North Carolina. From award winning chef prepared five star meals three times a day to daily kids camps full of magical activities and compassionate care for your children to gorgeous, comfy, glamping tents and some of the most beautiful scenery that mother nature has to offer to a schedule perfectly curated to fill your cup. Matriarch rising is the summer camp for the grown ass woman, and I want you to join us this year. When you drop your name on our list below, you get our virtual matriarch rising festival with a bunch of awesome workshops from some of MRF's most beloved teachers. And, hey, I hope to see you on the dance floor under the stars soon.
Speaker 3
Yeah. And you also realize that, like, it's really not much different on the other side when it comes to I mean, people are not always gonna accept you either way. You know? Like, people aren't always gonna be happy with who you are, and, you know, people are going to. And that's just something that we have to do in life. So you can either show up authentically or not. You know?
Speaker 2
And this idea of, like, so what? So my mom's gonna be nervous for me. My neighbor won't understand. Like, and then what? You know? Like, it's pretty not not thought out on a conscious level. Like, so what? So what if your mom is nervous? She's an adult.
Speaker 3
Like Yeah.
Speaker 2
It's okay. You know? I think really what it is is what I said earlier. It's the wanting it's that we're hardwired to garner approval and and belong with the herd, you know, to be a part of the tribe and to perform in such a way that we're accepted. And so when we do stuff that potentially or when we we straight up are taught that this kind of stuff will make us not be be accepted by society or our community and we do something different, yeah, that is risky. But kind of what we said at the very beginning, the ripple effects, you know, the the courage that you had to follow your authentic path, the ripple effects are notable in our community, in your social group, you know, in your friends and family. Absolutely. It's like, well, who do you wanna be in the world? Like, look what happens when you're your authentic self. Like, the world actually becomes a better place.
Speaker 3
Yes. Absolutely. And you also realize that when given the opportunity, especially, like, your friends and close family, like, a lot of the times in the end, they are going to respect you, and they are going to hop on board with you, which is something that I have came to the realization of. So
Speaker 2
And if not
Speaker 3
then do they really need
Speaker 2
to be able to out. You know? You know? And I think for a lot of women having their first baby, you know, you're a young mom. It's your first baby. There is this natural, you know, maturation process of, like, you you becoming mother, you know, and shifting out of just the daughter, shifting out of the younger girl in your community and in your family. You know, there's this, like, big, turning of the wheel when a woman becomes a mom in her family. And so, you know, I see it all the time of this and it happens at different paces, of course, for everyone, but this transition of, like, I'm not a little girl anymore. I'm not just the daughter. I'm not the little sister. I'm I'm a mother now, and and not a lot of women claim that. And sometimes it takes women many children to claim it. But I I really saw you in a very quiet way because that's your personality. But and and and other women who who do this, you know, make this choice, like, you you kinda claimed it right off the bat by thinking for yourself, by staking your claim, and you didn't do it in some aggressive in your face way, which whatever is also fine, but you just did it in in a very quiet, mature, you know, embodied way. And and then you got to see the results of it, which is your community was like, great. That's dope for the most part.
Speaker 3
That's what
Speaker 2
I know.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Definitely. And, I will say, like, it's so when you're around inspiring women and women that have done this and stepped into motherhood in that way, it's a really easy thing to to not emulate, but to follow and to get on board with and to like, being around inspiring women in create, it creates inspiring women. And it's just like this ripple effect that you really don't even have to try super hard. It just it just naturally happens.
Speaker 2
And it becomes the normal. You know? Because so many women, like, you know, you you kinda have this, like, unique initiation, obviously, being around Julia and Erica and I and and, you know, kind of the stuff we've already figured out. But most most first time moms I know who are free birthing, like, all they have is, like, the podcast. Like, they've never met anyone in real life. You know? They never seen yeah. It's a
Speaker 3
And I can't imagine. I mean, I haven't even thought about that. You know? Like, would things have turned out different had I not had all of that? Because I can't imagine. It's hard for me to put myself in someone else's shoes and see, like because I just don't know what it's like to not have that community, and I can't imagine. Like, women need community. I mean, there's just nothing around. Like, there's no way you need community with other women.
Speaker 2
And they need to be shown what's possible because, again, going back to that risk assessment, it's gonna feel too risky for most women if they don't have an example of someone being okay on the other side. I don't just mean surviving, but, like, still accepted, like, the social aspects. You know? Yeah. It's all very interesting because it's so primal. It's so biological, and then it's also so heady, and it's just such a big deal. And, also, it's so simple. And that's why I love these stories because it's like, oh, cool. You got pregnant and had a baby and didn't make a big thing about it. Like
Speaker 3
Yeah. You
Speaker 2
know? But, also, it's, like, totally changes your life by doing that.
Speaker 3
It is. It it does, and it changes really the world at large. I mean, like, I think the more that this spreads and the more women that come back to themselves and do give birth in this primal way, the whole entire world is going to heal more and more and more.
Speaker 2
Of course. I mean, you you now have a son who's a a a future man in the world who doesn't come from trauma. He Exactly. Wasn't traumatized at birth. He wasn't circumcised. He wasn't shot up with thirty five, you know, poisonous injections. Like, he doesn't have any trauma. He was nursed and co slept, and he got all of the biological, like, foundational starts to just, like, go really and, obviously, the proof's in the pudding. If you spend two seconds with him, you see his brightness and his contentness and his connection and, you know, all of the stuff that's so obvious in babies that are born like this and that are mothered this way. And it's it's a really big deal because he's gonna gonna be a thirty year old man someday.
Speaker 3
Exactly. He's
Speaker 2
a husband. He's gonna be a father, and he's he's basically, like, of a different breed than than the the vast majority. It's amazing. Yes. Okay. So what else about your pregnancy do you wanna share about?
Speaker 3
My pregnancy
Speaker 2
Challenges? Like, was there any, like what was the work of your pregnancy? Anything in that regard?
Speaker 3
Well, I think, back to what I said, I was just kind of, like I put myself in this sort of cocoon, and I felt kind of away from the rest of the outside war world in a lot of ways because I even though I didn't yes. I I had said I didn't tell everyone what was happening in my life. I told some. And so I guess that's what kinda drove me into this cocoon of, like, I was just like, I'm not listening to any outside opinions on this. And that sort of, like I didn't realize the transformation that I was preparing myself for, but, like, it's just crazy because, you know, a lot of women don't get the experience where they're aware and they are using birth as this transformational thing. And I was able to do that from the very get go. Like, I didn't have any trauma to work through before when it came to this or or any of that. So I just really made it this positive thing in my life, and that's what it was. That's that's what I thought of it as. So that's what it was, and that's what it became for me and my wife. And, I think that, also just becoming a mother that has inspired other pregnant women has been, like, such a huge thing for me. And, like, I like, after right after I gave birth, I started having all these local women come and message me and ask me all these questions. And I'm like, wow. Like, I really have transformed into the women that I was looking up to. Mhmm. Yeah.
Speaker 2
That's so beautiful. Yeah. That's really beautiful and special.
Speaker 3
It is.
Speaker 2
It really is. How old are you?
Speaker 3
I am twenty eight.
Speaker 2
Oh, it's so amazing. Okay. So not a wild pregnancy. My bad. But you you see the you see a midwife, and was it mostly for the you wanted to know the sex of the baby and just, like, feel it out? Were you, like, interviewing her to see about potential attendance, or or what was the deal with that?
Speaker 3
No. I didn't, ever intend on I just wanted to go and get my blood work done and find out the gender of the baby. I had never intended for me to use her or to have, you know, a backup plan or anything. I specifically just went for that blood work. And the the lady that I saw was I mean, she was an awesome lady. And, I ended up I did tell her that I was having a home birth, and she just, you know, kinda brushed it off and was like, okay. Like, you know, which was also amazing because I know a lot of story of these Right. Of women going into a medical situation and saying that this is what they're doing, and then they're, like, shunned about it or, you know, like, you're putting your day baby in danger and all this. So I didn't have to deal with that.
Speaker 2
And with finding out the sex of your baby, is that something that you think you'll do again?
Speaker 3
No. No. I I I've just I think it was just, like, because he was my first and, like, we were so excited. Like, we wanted to know the gender and but in my future pregnancies, I won't be seeing anyone at all or going to any appointments.
Speaker 2
Okay. So, I mean, if you feel like you've shared enough about your pregnancy, you could get into the
Speaker 3
The birth.
Speaker 2
Story.
Speaker 3
Okay. Yeah. Let's do it. So I'll just start with the day of. I, had went to the a local watering hole water hole swimming hole with my friends, and, it was, like, down a mountain. So I, like, struggled getting down and out of there for sure. But it was crazy because, like, I really, in my head, was like, I hadn't felt any, like, sensations or anything. So I was like, it's gonna be, like, another week at least before I give birth. Like, I don't know why, but in my head, that's just, like, where I was at. And,
Speaker 2
because if you didn't think that, you wouldn't have gone down a mountain and gone to a watering hole. Like, we just have to make this shit up so that we can Exactly.
Speaker 3
Exactly. I'm like, yeah. I'm I'm good. I'm not having a baby for at least a month. So, yeah, we were there. I was there with, like, Riley and Jamie, and, like, my mother came. And, coincidentally, my grandmother came who never goes and does stuff like that, so that was special for her to be there.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 3
And, yeah, we just spent the day there. And, we were, like, leaving. And everyone was, like we're, like, getting in our vehicles, and I'm over here, like, sweating and, like, panting. And everybody was like, next time we see you, you're gonna have a baby. And I was like, I don't know. I don't know. And, we so I went back home, and it was just I mean, it was really a normal day. You know? I mean, I was just going through my day like I usually would. It was a Sunday, so we got home from that, and we made dinner, had dinner. I have no recollection of what I ate. But, that night, Riley texted me and was like, I feel like you're gonna go into labor tonight. And I was like, okay. Like, I guess. And so we laid down to go to bed, and it was, like, probably Eli had already passed out. And it was, like, eleven o'clock. And I, like, kept having to get up and go to the bathroom over and over again. I just felt totally uncomfortable, and I was like, okay. Well, this is just because I'm, you know, over forty weeks pregnant, and I feel uncomfortable. And then, like, I got up a final time, and my water broke. And I didn't take that as like, oh, there's gonna be a baby here very soon because I'd spoken to you, and I knew that, like, your water can break way before. Yeah. And you don't know how long it's gonna be. So I just kinda woke woke Eli up a little bit, and I was like, hey. Like, my water just broke. Like, I don't know if anything's happening. But and he was like, are you sure it just broke? And I was like, yes. I'm I'm positive. I just got up, and it went all over the floor. And I text I did text you and, just to let you know that something might be happening that night because I kinda had you on call just in case. And then I think I laid there for maybe an hour just kind of, like, seeing if anything was gonna happen, and I had my first contraction. And, you know, in my first contraction, I was like, oh, this is not bad at all.
Speaker 2
I got it. This isn't
Speaker 3
I was like, I can do this all night. And, yeah, I just, like, waited. I waited a couple hours before I had Eli, like, go and blow up the pool because I wanted the water to stay warm and all that. But I was just kind of, like, walking around, breathing through it, and I was reading my affirmation cards and just getting myself kind of in that space. And when I started, like, really having some, like, more intense sensations, I was like, okay. Like, fill up the pool. I feel like I should get in some warm water, which was amazing for me to get in warm water. Like, that, like, completely changed everything that I was feeling. Like, I didn't want to put any pressure on my the lower part of my body, so I kinda would just float in there. And it just really helped me get through those contractions a lot. And, Eli was, of course, being great. He was just, like, following me around with some water and, like, changing the music if I wanted him to change the music. But, yeah, I just it wasn't really that intense for me for, like, I would say, the first five hours. But then I I got up out of the pool, and I went to the bathroom. And I now looking back, I see that I was in transition, and I was, like, at the peak of everything during all this. And I was just like I went into such a psychedelic state when I was in this bathroom and having, like, back to back contractions. And, like, I, like at first, I think I was, like, trying to run from that, and I was trying to, like, get away from the pain, I guess. And I, like, went and got on my bed, and I was on all fours. And I was, like, just wailing and trying to get through these contractions. And, overall, I think I was resisting these contractions. And every time I would, you know, have a break from one, I would, like, roll over on my side, and I would my body was just I wanted to go to sleep so bad because I've been up all night, and I just kept telling myself, like, I need to sleep. I need to rest knowing, obviously, like, there was no resting during this time. And I just, like, had this something just came over me and was like, get up. Like, get up and get in the bathroom and get through these things. Have a baby. And have a baby. Yeah. I was like I was like just I I was like, okay. Like, get up. We're gonna do this. Like, you cannot lay down right now. You can't go to sleep right now. This is where we're at, and we're we're gonna get through it. And so I went back in the bathroom, and I would say it's so hard to, like, keep up with a time frame when you're in that portal because you just forget about Tom and everything. But I would say I was in there for maybe another hour, and I was just really, like, out of it. I mean, it was it was this crazy psychedelic experience for me, and I don't know exactly always how to put it into words when I get to this part of my story. But I could feel, like, my ancestors surrounding me, and I could feel, like, the spirit realm just getting closer and closer to me. And I was having all of these crazy visions, and and it just felt really it felt really primal. And I was just screaming and, you know, Eli was, like, coming up to me whenever I would have a super hard contraction, and I would, like, pull on him to, like, have some resistance. And then he would kinda go out of the bathroom and, like, give me my space because he could tell later, he told me he could tell that I was, like, in a different world at that point. And that was the point in which I was traveling through the portal and needing the spirit of my baby. Like, I could it's crazy to explain, but I just could feel myself going and, like, grabbing his spirit and bringing him back with me.
Speaker 2
You're coming with me.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Like and it was amazing. I mean, it was super painful, of course, but it was also the most amazing experience that I've ever had. And, once I got through that, I was like, okay. Like, I need to get out of this space and go back to the pool. And I was like, I think he's gonna be here soon. And so Eli, like, took me back to the pool. And, I I'm not gonna say that it wasn't painful after that because it was still painful, like, at him actually coming down and coming out. But once I got past that in the bathroom where I was in the transition and I had this huge spiritual experience, it was like that was the climax of it all. And it was all kinda downhill for the from there for me. And I was just, you know, in the pool, and I was just breathing through it. And I just was, like I remember, like, pep talking myself because I was just so exhausted. And I was just, like, looking at Eli, and I was like, I can do this. I was like, I can get through this. Like, I can do this. I'm gonna do it. And he's like, yeah. You can do it. You can do this. That's Cute. Yeah. I was like, okay. I'm gonna do it. And just kind of waiting. I didn't. Like, I when I was in the pool the final time, I had the urge to push at one point, and I just remember thinking, like, there's no way, like, I feel like I'm gonna do damage to myself if I push. That's where I was at with it. I just for something was just telling me, like, just let him come down. Everything's gonna be fine. Don't rush it. And I feel like the more that I kind of gave in to that voice in me that was saying, like, don't rush things. Like, just let this happen. The less I was resisting it and the less painful it became for me. And it was, like, almost like a choice of letting it take over you. And, I was just I think I had I, like, felt to see where he was at, and I could feel his head. And I told Eli, I was like, he's gonna be here soon. I can feel him. And he was over there, like, readjusting the camera right after I said this. And, literally, I, like, kinda, like, sat back and thought I was just going through another contraction, and I just, like, sat back like this kind of, and he just, like, came out. Like, it was like it was the craziest thing. Like, there was no he didn't crown. Like, I didn't see his head ever. Like, it was just one big contraction, and he just shot out Woah. Which was amazing as well. And it's crazy, like, you know, when you're in the middle of giving birth, you're like, I am never doing this again. Like, I can't get through this. And then, like, as soon as it's over, you're like, I did that, and I can do that again, and I will do that again. Like, it's just the most amazing feeling when you finally get through it and you finally get to hold your baby on your chest for the first time.
Speaker 2
So he shot out into the water?
Speaker 3
Yeah. He just he shot I I had no idea that he was he was coming at that point. Like, I knew it was I was, like, thinking, like, oh, I have, like, maybe four or five contractions left, which, of course, I also didn't know. Right. But, yeah, he just, like, shot out into the water, and I looked down and saw that he was there. That's it was so weird. It was like, I almost didn't even feel him come out. Woah. Yeah. And I just, like, picked him up, and you can actually, like, hear Eli in the video. He's, like, behind the camera, and he's like, oh my god. Yeah. I was like, you did it. You did it. Yeah. Ew. And
Speaker 2
yeah. We're just like seen your I've never seen your video.
Speaker 3
Yeah. I need to I actually sent it over.
Speaker 2
So
Speaker 3
Did you? Watch it. Yes. Oh, cool. Yeah. Yeah. And I just was I was trying to chill in the pool for a little bit, and I was just thinking, like, I need to get out and get this placenta out of me so we can rest. Because I had been up all night because I laid down and went into labor immediately, so I was just exhausted. And, so I think I stayed in the pool just kind of, you know, collecting myself and, like, being with my baby for, like, maybe ten minutes. And then I got up, and Eli helped me to the bed, and we called you. And, it was crazy. It was like no one knew. Everyone that knew I was gonna be in labor, and they had all been, like, leaving their phones on high. And then that night, for some reason, no one did. And so no one knew until, like, an hour before he was born that I was in labor, which kinda worked out because then it just left no room for anyone to get worried or whatever. You know? And so we called you.
Speaker 2
Eli was like, she had the baby. He's here. What do we do what do we do next?
Speaker 3
What do we do? Yeah.
Speaker 2
So cute. Yeah. He was like, what do I do?
Speaker 3
He's like, Johnny, my son is here.
Speaker 2
Oh, yeah.
Speaker 3
But, yeah. So you just kind of, like, talked to I can't remember our exact conversation because I was, like, so out of it at this point. But I know that you told me that I needed to get the placenta out, and you told me how to get the placenta out. And I, at some point, got up, went to the toilet, got the placenta out, put it in a bowl, and I came back into the bed. And me and Eli and the baby and Zephyr, we all three passed out for, like, four hours and just slept. Yeah. Which felt so good to, like that's what I tell a lot of people. I'm like, the best feeling to me about being having a home birth was being at my house for postpartum. Like, immediately being able to get into my own bed and, you know, like, I just can't imagine doing that anywhere else other than in my own home.
Speaker 2
Oh my god. Totally. And, like, the strangers and the smells.
Speaker 3
Exactly. Like, I I was just so grateful. I was like, I'm at home. I can just go to sleep, and I'll talk to everybody when I wake up. Yeah. So we just I I do remember whenever I woke up, after that little three or four hour nap, first of all, I was, like, in total bliss because I, like, wake up and come to, and I look down and, like, I'm like, my baby's here. Like, I did it. I did it. I got through it. Like, it was amazing. Everything was perfect, and you're just on this huge high from all of that. And I looked over to Eli who was also exhausted because he had been up all night, and I was like, call my mom. I was like, she needs to come cook and clean for us and take care of us for today because neither of us have the energy to do it. Yeah. So my mom came, and she cooked us a meal. And, she cleaned everything up. She cleaned up my birth pool, like, just kind of was my my postpartum midwife. And, yeah, it was just all a beautiful experience. And I think it really healed a lot of stuff for my mom too. Like, just, like, seeing me experience things in a different way than she did, and that was kind of, like, a full circle thing for her.
Speaker 2
Yeah. How could it not be?
Speaker 3
Exactly.
Speaker 2
Yeah. My mom all the time, multiple times a year that she watches me mother, she just looks at me and goes, I wish I could have a redo. And it's, like, really sad. You know? But I always say to her, like, I'm your redo. Like, I'm
Speaker 3
not doing it. Exactly. I
Speaker 2
am. Don't worry. You don't have to redo. I got it. So Yeah. It's so profound.
Speaker 3
It really is. And I just, like, have such a deeper understanding now of my mother and my grandmothers. And just me experiencing birth in the way that I did and knowing that they didn't get that experience makes me understand them on such a deeper level. And, you know, I I have been able to move past their mistakes and forgive their mistakes, and that has also been a huge piece of me embodying embodying my womanhood. So
Speaker 2
Yeah. Like, moving out of the child, moving out of the teenager, moving out of the daughter. I mean, you're always a daughter, but, like, the maturation process of you really taking your place. Right? Yeah. As a mother. Yeah.
Speaker 3
Yeah. It's very healing.
Speaker 2
Tell me about postpartum and nursing and healing, and I'm assuming you didn't go take your baby to be circumcised and vaccinated. And
Speaker 3
I did not. No. He
Speaker 2
He didn't have any do
Speaker 3
any of that. Nope. Yeah. So postpartum was awesome. I mean, I just I really enjoyed, like, just having the space to just, you know, chill in bed. And Eli was off of work for two weeks. I think he was actually working for you at the time as well, and he was off for two weeks. And he just waited on me hand and foot, and we had a, meal train going. So we have people, like, constantly bringing us meals and, you know, anything we needed. And I think the hardest thing that I dealt with in postpartum was I had a lot of pain when I was breastfeeding. And, it was like I don't know. It it's not like it was, like, too much for me to deal with because, obviously, I dealt with it and got through it. But when you are in such a sensitive state and you've your body has just went through the birthing process and all that, like, it's, like, seems like so much more to deal with and so much more on your shoulders to be dealing with pain when you're nursing your baby. And so that was, like, something that definitely frustrated me a lot.
Speaker 2
And how long did
Speaker 3
that happen? It it was only maybe the first week and a half, And I slowly I mean, it was, like, really bad at first, and it just slowly was getting better and better. And I think I had talked to you actually about it, and, you know, you had said stuff about, like, ties and stuff could maybe be the issue. And I think that he does have a lip tie, but I was able to get through it without having to correct that. So, you know, I haven't after the first two weeks of birth, I didn't have any trouble nursing. Yeah. It was just like that transition.
Speaker 2
Yeah. And that's an important thing for women who aren't moms yet to hear because a lot it's very common for it to hurt in the beginning. And it staying hurting is different, you know, than, like, what you what you kinda gave the opportunity, you know, to to unfold, which was to kinda get with it and and and then it became pain free or painless. And I think that's quite common, but a lot of women, especially if you're working the system and you have fourteen different people consulting you and telling you what to do, if it hurts, they go right to the shields and the pumping and the it's just so complicated and getting the LC in and getting the lip tie assessment and scheduling the revision. And then it's like, oh my goodness. And the cranial sacral, and you just, like, go into all of this active management, essentially. But a lot of women don't even give themselves or know that they could give themselves the time to just see if you can make it work. And and be and I'm saying that because a lot of times, it will be what you described. It will hurt, and then you guys figure it out. And if you had a, you know, a different setup, it could have gotten a lot more complicated and then you and then you're on that train. You know? Yeah.
Speaker 3
It it definitely felt like this thing that I could've made into a bigger drama in my life
Speaker 2
For sure.
Speaker 3
Than I did. And I am glad that I didn't because I there were times when I was, like, thinking, like, I might need to do something about this. But it went away fairly quickly, and I didn't have to like, I didn't you know, after experiencing a free birth, you don't the last thing you wanna do is take your baby to the doctor to have surgery on its lid. I mean, that was just, like, not something I was interested in at all.
Speaker 2
And not all ties are created equal, and lots of newborns have ties and can still nurse successfully. And so, that's an important thing to know because if you are a woman birthing with providers or so called providers, their assessment of baby might put you on a track that you sincerely don't need to be on. Both my babies have restrictions and are totally fine, and they're totally fine, and that's not uncommon.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 2
So, basically, it was only a week and a half.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. So that was, like, the one downside. But other than that, like, everything just went perfectly, and my community really came together and held me and took care of me. And it was all just really great. And I also, like, wanna touch on the boundaries that I had because a lot of people initially like, it's just a cultural thing to the first day the baby's born, you get to meet the baby. Wow. Like, everyone gets to meet the baby. You know? And I was like, no. Like, I was like, you have to wait. Right. And that was just like that was a boundary that I had to make, and I probably irritated some people, but you can't get back those first days of postpartum.
Speaker 2
And no one is entitled to you No. And by extension your baby. And, obviously, we live in a society where they do feel entitled.
Speaker 0
And, you
Speaker 2
know, women Yes. Women were property. Women are still property around the world. You know? I mean, it's it's it's not great out there. And so there is a lot of our own social conditioning where we get to decide, should we be privileged enough, you know, to to be free? You know, should we, get to make these decisions? We do get to decide how much we want to, play or or entertain this idea of entitlement. And, you know, boundaries are the opposite of that, of course. And and, yeah, I think it's really different when you birth in a hospital and you're drugged and you're numbed, and, it's a performance. You get your makeup done and your nails done before you go in for your scheduled c section. And everyone's in the waiting room, and they have a scheduled time because you know exactly how long surgery is gonna be. And it it's a performance, you know, and a painful one, a very a very sick sick ritual of our times. But but that makes more sense that there's, like, everyone comes and sees the show. Right?
Speaker 3
And Exactly.
Speaker 2
The product. You know? It's a really different way of doing things than getting, you know, down and dirty in you in your house. Yeah. You know, and having, like, a spiritual, you know, psychedelic experience with your ancestors and, you know, doing the whole, the whole thing that that that we do over here. Yeah.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. And it's it's also, like, so, like, normal and and primal and just makes so much sense to me, and it's hard to see that the circus of the medical system is seen as so normalized. Like, it's just it blows my mind every day, really.
Speaker 2
You know, but all that really matters, like, how I reorient myself all the time is, like, well, it's not normal to me.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 2
You know? It's not normal to you. It won't be normal to Zephyr. It's not normal to my kids. You know, my my kiddo is six and a half, and she's like, what is a shot the other day? We, like, walked in on her and Solstice plane, and she she was, like, giving her fair shots. And we're like, what is happening right now? I don't know. I heard someone talk about shots. Is this how you do it? And we were like, wow. This is, really funny. You know? But but my point really is that, you know, women all the time will ask me, you know, when will free birth be normal? When will when will this stuff be normal? And I'm always like, it is for me.
Speaker 3
It's normal now if you want to be
Speaker 2
know about, and that is how change occurs. And it you know, change happens in our homes. It happens first within ourselves and then in our homes and our marriages and then in how we parent. And it's actually not that, it's actually not that hard to, like, steer the ship back. Right? You can do it in one generation.
Speaker 3
Exactly. Which is amazing
Speaker 2
Thank god.
Speaker 3
To know. Yeah. And I I think I really came to terms or I really, like, felt that what you just said whenever I had my closing of the bone ceremony with you guys and for me and Julia. And you said something to me during the ceremony of, like, you did it. Like, you you healed all of this for generations and for your, you know, whatever. Something along those lines. And I just, like, broke down crying, and I was like, oh my gosh. Like, that's all it took. Like, that was it. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Because it's not an isolated event. Right? Because it's the ripple effect we keep talking about. It's not just birth, except birth is everything. So it's like both and at the same time, like, choosing the free birth also then, you know, is all the stuff you already mentioned. Like, you don't take your kid into the system. You're not gonna indoctrinate your kid. You're not gonna hand your kid over when he has a fever. Like, it's just not like that. There's an intact, there's a there's a wholeness in the knowing of your own capacity as a mother and in your own trust of of your, you know, ability to listen and to exist as a mother with this baby. That that confidence really can't be, like, bought. You know? It's just it's so big. It's such a big deal, and it affects everything moving forward. And like we said earlier, it really shakes off a lot of the bullshit and just, gosh, it really does just change and and rewrite so much of the old story. It it is it it's like this one specific thing, and yet it sets a foundation for an entirely new slash old, you know, way of of being and living, that that feels better. It feels Yes. You know?
Speaker 3
Yeah. It it feels right. I mean, it it just is there's just this knowing.
Speaker 2
I mean, if you think about it, like, our entire culture is set up on making us, as females, the most insecure, the most, you know, self loathing, the most in competition, you know, to the degree that we would get plastic surgery and, you know, paint our faces and hate each other and, you know, all the crazy shit that's been going down out there. And this is just totally incompatible with that. It's a completely, like, who a woman is whole. She just doesn't surrender her baby to the system. She just doesn't. It just wouldn't even make sense. It's you know, sister Morningstar talks a lot about, about the she wolf or the or the mama bear and that the mama bear, you know, the mama bear would kill before she lets you take her baby. And I've I've cried a lot, you know, in my life as a birth worker to watch how tamed women are and tamed mothers are where they just allow people to take their babies. And and I'm saying this with a lot of sensitivity, you know, intended. Like, it's not it's not even a judgment of any particular story or person. You know, some of you listening have been that woman. But, wow, like, what a thermometer or what a what a barometer of where we're at in our tamedness that we've strayed so far from the mama bear. You know? And there is something undeniable in the way that I have birthed, in the way that I mother that I it is not in my consciousness. I'm not available for that. You know, I hear these stories about how when you get the tongue tie, you know, that that they don't let the mom go in or or the, you know, mom doesn't get to go in the ambulance or the mom doesn't get to go into the OR. And I'm like, over my literal dead body is anything happening without me there, like, for so many reasons, you know, and and the fierceness that I know and would actualize, you know, it's not erratic. It's not chaotic. It's, like, it's very intelligent, and it it would be very organized. And it you know, I wouldn't hesitate to get a lawyer, and I would do exactly whatever the fuck I need to do to make this go my way because I am the mama bear, and I've worked really hard to, allow that to come through me. Right? It's in all of us because we are, by nature's design, wild wild beans.
Speaker 3
Yeah. It's it's just something that has been really watered down. I mean Yeah. Over so many generations of it it is truly I mean, it it is really sad. Like, I've heard many birth stories of of and I've said this before. Like, a lot of women don't even know that
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
What happened wasn't okay and that they were violated. And they just can't even I mean, it's just it's incredibly, incredibly sad, and I I hope that one day we're back in a world where every woman gets to experience what we've experienced with motherhood and birth.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. That would be interesting. I can't even really imagine, like, what Yeah.
Speaker 3
We might not see it, but hopefully
Speaker 2
What what industries would still stand? Like, what Right?
Speaker 3
What what would it
Speaker 2
you know, we would we would be matriarchal, obviously, so the whole the whole structure would look completely different. Yeah. Okay. So then I'm gonna end this with, yeah, seeing what you wanna say to how how would you, how would you say that free birth has changed you? Like, who are you now that's notably different from this experience?
Speaker 3
It really has changed everything. I mean, in a sense, it's like I now in hindsight, I think that I was leading myself to this and to stepping into my power and embodying my womanhood. And I see all the steps that I took to get here, but, I mean, it really when you show yourself what you can do and when it comes to pregnancy and birth and transforming into your mother, it's like this catalyst in your life. And I just don't put limits on myself anymore. Like, I don't feel like, oh, you can't do that. You can't live that life. You can't create that business. Like, it has just, like, dissipated all of that for me. And I just feel I've honest I just feel very powerful. I feel like a very powerful woman, and I just am so thankful that I got to experience it the way that I did and that this is my only birth story.
Speaker 2
So far.
Speaker 3
So far. My first birth story.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Beautiful. Well, thank you.
Speaker 3
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2
I love you.
Speaker 3
I love you too.
Speaker 2
So proud of you. It's really cool
Speaker 3
Thank you.
Speaker 2
To see and really inspiring and, yeah, let's take over Haysville.
Speaker 3
Let's do it.
Speaker 2
Okay. So we're gonna put your Instagram handle on here, but do you wanna give your website for your clothes? Are you selling online yet?
Speaker 3
Not yet. That will be launching this, winter. So as of now, just Instagram is the best way to get up with me and see my business, my life, what I'm doing.
Speaker 2
Say your handle?
Speaker 3
It's at divine underscore Appalachia. Cool.
Speaker 2
Alright. Thank you.
Speaker 3
Thanks. See you.
Speaker 2
I hope you enjoyed the show today. You can support this podcast by donating to it through the link in the show notes below, and, of course, leaving an awesome review on whatever platform you listen on. The more reviews, the more visibility the show gets, so let's spread the good word of Sovereign Birth. Don't forget, you can watch our podcast interviews on YouTube and see the women as they tell their birth and power stories, and you'll also find our viral free birth collection of epic raw birth videos on our YouTube. Make sure you're subscribed to our channel. We've always got a lot going on at Free Birth Society, and you can find out all about it at free birth society dot com, at free birth society on Instagram, and opt in to my newsletter below. We offer courses on free birth, authentic midwifery, the blood mysteries, as well as one on one coaching, in person retreats, and, of course, our annual women's gathering, the Matriarch Rising Festival. Our exclusive private vetted membership, The Lighthouse, is definitely something to check out if you're looking for a community of wise sisters to get guidance from and to meet in real life. Together, we rise sisters. We must speak our stories, fully claim our lives, and support one another. This is the living revolution, and I am so grateful to be in it with all of you. I'll leave you with our gorgeous free birth society theme song, Wild Woman by Aruba Red.
Speaker 4
I honor you for the wisdom you held, the ancient traditions of plant medicine and womb magic. I feel the spirit of the ancestors as I place my hands upon my belly. This sacred portal will be honored. Eons upon light beams of survival, withstanding the eradication of our power by design. I will not allow the separation of our young to be forced upon me. My sisters will no longer birth in captivity. The picket line we define from burning our wild women to paralyzing us and drugging our babes. Strapped
Speaker 0
down
Speaker 4
in a clinical white bed, drying up the milk from our breasts, keep your needles. My family will never again be doomed to chase those dragons or your poison. We reject your fear. We choose love. Everything with intention. Death, ascension. I will fly and bring her back from the star.
