00:00:00:11 - 00:00:22:21
Unknown
When you need guidance from someone you can truly trust, someone who aligns with your values of sovereignty and natural living. Look no further than Doctor Jennifer Tice. Doctor Jen's expertise in homeopathy and natural family care is unmatched. She is my personal go to when I need an opinion on how to best support my family and myself when we are healing and something I'm always telling everyone about.
00:00:22:22 - 00:00:54:10
Unknown
Doctor Jen runs a very specific food intolerance test. Having this information has quite literally changed my life once I decided to take it seriously. Knowing what our specific foods were to avoid has radically improved the health of myself and my children. So if you're looking to uplevel your health, head over to Doctor Jennifer TikTok and you can find her on Instagram at Doctor Jennifer Tice.
00:00:54:12 - 00:01:29:16
Unknown
Into the wild and go into the wild I am. It's been a while, freedom Child, since I left my roots back home into I don't go into the wild I hid. It's been a wild freedom child since I left my roots back home. Welcome to the Free Birth Society podcast. This is a radical space for women who are ready to celebrate their autonomous choices in birth, motherhood and beyond.
00:01:29:18 - 00:01:49:11
Unknown
Together, we'll learn about wild birth through personal narrative. We'll explore the politics of birth and will analyze everything that relates to our lives as women. From a feminist perspective, here's your host, Emilee Saldaya. While freedom check.
00:01:49:13 - 00:01:54:16
Unknown
Sense of love. My.
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Unknown
Bare home.
00:02:00:05 - 00:02:22:17
Unknown
Matriarch Rising Festival. Our annual Summer solstice Women's gathering is here on my gorgeous land in the Blue Ridge Mountains, and it is the place to connect with me and the free birthing women in sovereign midwives of this epic birth liberation movement. I teach classes and host and intimate meet and greet the very first night of the festival, and you will even catch me deejaying.
00:02:22:18 - 00:02:48:11
Unknown
Yes, I am matriarch one. You'll get to meet all of our free birth society luminaries, our wise women teachers who you know from your favorite FBS courses. You'll meet the very women I interview on this podcast. This is the place for wild women and moms to meet up, connect, and forge friendships that can last a lifetime. It's truly the climax of everything we do and MRF is so close to my heart.
00:02:48:12 - 00:03:11:21
Unknown
We're scaling back MRF 25 to be the most intimate yet, capping it at only 150 tickets because this year I want to go deep. I just love the experience of getting to know each and every one of you by the end of the festival. For a long time, I held the vision of creating a women's gathering where true sisterhood could be woven and Matriarch Rising is the manifestation of my dreams.
00:03:11:21 - 00:03:27:15
Unknown
I'm so glad I get to share it with all of you and I want you there this year. Come learn directly from me and surround yourself with powerful women from all ages, all walks of life, and from all over the world. Make sure you sign up for our mailing list so that you can be the first to know.
00:03:27:15 - 00:03:56:12
Unknown
When we roll out all of our insider insights of this summer's festival. I'll see you soon. Every now and then, a product comes along that our entire family can't get enough of. And lately it's masa chips. Delicious chips made the way food was meant to be. Just three simple ingredients organic corn, salt and beef tallow. No seed oils, no fillers, no ultra processed garbage.
00:03:56:14 - 00:04:23:17
Unknown
Just real whole food that nourishes rather than depletes. What we put into our bodies matters. It affects our energy, our mood, our resilience. And yet, the food industry today is completely disconnected from what's real and nourishing. Just like birth, food is one of the most powerful ways to claim sovereignty over our bodies, and it's no surprise that a sovereign birthing family is who makes these chips.
00:04:23:17 - 00:04:31:14
Unknown
When you snack snack on something real. Go to masa chips.
00:04:31:16 - 00:05:05:03
Unknown
Society and use free birth society for 20% off your first order. All right. Welcome, Anna. Hello, Anna or Anna? Anna? Yeah. Not like frozen. No. My daughter would probably want me to be on, but for sure. Okay, so you said you have a big story. I'm excited to hear about it. And all I really know is you're in Washington and you recently free birthed your baby.
00:05:05:04 - 00:05:42:01
Unknown
So tell us a little bit about who you are. And then that'll kind of go into pre motherhood. What's your relationship like to the medical system into your first pregnancy. Perfect. Yeah I have to say I mean most of my story has to do with I moved a lot as a kid. My dad works with hotels. And so we were constantly kind of up and moving to a different location as he worked for bigger and better hotels, which eventually at one point brought us to Hawaii, which was an amazing place to go to high school.
00:05:42:03 - 00:06:09:03
Unknown
But that's us, the Big Island. Cool. And that really opened my eyes. Before that, I lived in lots of like Midwest kind of feels where there's a lot of conservative Christian bubbles. And so I grew up with a lot of that, and my world was pretty small in that way of like, I thought everyone was the same. I thought everyone was a Christian.
00:06:09:03 - 00:06:31:11
Unknown
I thought everyone believed in Jesus, you know, everyone straight, all that stuff. And I moved to Hawaii and that bubble was burst quite quickly. And how old are you when you moved? This was right when I turned 16. Perfect. So I was I was still like, quite childlike. I was like very, you know, young at heart at that point.
00:06:31:12 - 00:06:56:21
Unknown
I mean, like Disney princess like. And then I got to white and I was like, whoa, there are a lot of different people who don't believe in what I believe in, who are all sorts of gay, lesbian, bisexual. And we went to this like liberal arts, private, small high school. So it was very different from my like Christian school before.
00:06:56:23 - 00:07:23:18
Unknown
And I find myself falling for a girl that was a big, big drama with my family and just who they thought I was and who I was learning who I was. And had. You had boyfriends prior? No. Okay, I had not. I had boy crushes and I still would say that I'm bisexual. I, I am attracted to both men and women.
00:07:23:20 - 00:07:47:08
Unknown
And so that kind of carried throughout. And as I was dating, I dated some boys, dated some girls. Once I got to college, and then I found myself going to France as an au pair during like my university days. And that's a really great place to go be a bisexual, I probably, but here's the here's the really annoying part.
00:07:47:09 - 00:08:08:10
Unknown
Okay? I was like three days in to my experience abroad for the summer, and I meet like the love of my life. And so that was like, I mean, great, but also annoying because I was like, oh, France, this is going to be so fun. So anyways, I'm over there and I'm in a different way when she hears this.
00:08:08:12 - 00:08:45:04
Unknown
No, we laugh about it all the time. So I met Rebecca over there. She was also an au pair taking care of a family, and we just kind of spent the summer together with lots of kids, you know, foreshadowing for a future. You talking about all these things? We had followed the same, like YouTube lesbian couple who were having kids because that was like, wasn't that long ago, but it was like 2017 and it just wasn't super popular for like two mom couples to be out talking on social media about having kids.
00:08:45:04 - 00:09:04:23
Unknown
And so there was a few that we followed because we knew we wanted kids, but we were like, how are we going to make that happen if we're end up with women? And so that was like really important to both of us, and we bonded on that and all that sort of thing. So came home from that, did long distance, got married in 2019.
00:09:05:01 - 00:09:27:12
Unknown
And pretty soon after we're like, we want to be moms. Like we both had always, always wanted to be moms and everyone around us was not really in that same stage as us. So we kind of felt different, but we just knew that's what we wanted. And so we started looking at different ways what we wanted to do.
00:09:27:14 - 00:09:53:09
Unknown
Rebecca has a little bit more of a regular cycles, and I knew my cycles were like super regular, so we knew when we wanted to get pregnant, we both wanted to get pregnant, but it might be easiest to get me pregnant first if we could just track my cycles and everything. So I started doing that like peeing on sticks once or twice a day for months to just kind of gauge my fertility.
00:09:53:09 - 00:10:29:15
Unknown
And everything was like, perfect. And was the time that you would, like alternate carrying? Yeah. Over the years. Yeah. So with that, we were like, we don't really love the idea of like a big sperm bank with like an anonymous rando. So we brainstormed known donors and ended up with actually someone on her side of the family was willing and very eager to help us out in growing our family.
00:10:29:17 - 00:11:00:15
Unknown
So we were like, we also don't really want to get into the system, so I guess I didn't really touch on that. I grew up pretty like normal mainstream medical system, like kind of standard American childhood with birth stories of me, you know, wrapped around my head with my cord and bunching back inside and, like, not coming out and taking forever.
00:11:00:15 - 00:11:27:01
Unknown
And then my brother had a huge head. And so that fear story. So like just those kind of like normal fear stories, I suppose, drama. And so before I met my wife, I probably would have just gone like more of the medical route. But she had trained to be a midwife in the Philippines before coming to France, but didn't end up finishing the school because she was like, actually, I don't like this.
00:11:27:01 - 00:11:51:05
Unknown
I want to do postpartum stuff. So she kind of swerved, but she had that kind of midwifery, more home birth. She grew up more in like the homeschooling world of lots of babies, babies born at home. So that was not like weird for her. And she had kind of talked to me about it, showed me videos. And so I was starting to be like, oh, you know what?
00:11:51:05 - 00:12:14:19
Unknown
That's actually looks way more enjoyable to be at your own home or a person or whatever is where I was at that time. So, like a picture of, like a woman in a tub in her own home versus like a woman strapped down on drugs, screaming strangers. I mean, it's crazy that people even choose that, right? Yeah.
00:12:14:20 - 00:12:40:03
Unknown
And I think that she had shown me, oh, what is that business of being born? So kind of like that starter pack starter kit of like, this is not actually have your best intentions all the time in the hospital. So that was kind of we didn't like let's try to keep it as close to home as we can just because that's the most like natural quote unquote.
00:12:40:03 - 00:13:01:01
Unknown
And it also is the most comfortable. And we started researching how to get pregnant and how to do with an icy at home interest, cervix insemination. And that's what we decided to do. So that was in.
00:13:01:03 - 00:13:31:08
Unknown
What was that June or July 2020? We invited our donor over, lived with us for a while, got it all up to my cycles, and we had to stay with you because he did live nearby. Yeah, exactly. Is the idea that your kid will know that he's the donor? Yeah. Okay. Definitely. Because it's just like a special uncle, you know, is what it would be.
00:13:31:08 - 00:13:55:23
Unknown
But then also knowing that he helped us make the family for sure when they're like, at some point they're going to be like, what's up with the dad situation? You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. And so it so he comes there. I mean just like how weird is it or how I mean, it must be such a combination of excitement and kind of awkward and like, oh yeah, gosh, I'm just doing it right now.
00:13:56:01 - 00:14:15:14
Unknown
It's definitely something. I think there's a lot of nervous excitement surrounding it, because you're just trying to play it cool and like, normal. It's like just another day at the house and then, you know, that night you're just going to be like both doing it in different rooms in a way, you know, because you have to. And you used it fresh.
00:14:15:16 - 00:14:50:07
Unknown
Yes yes yes yes yes, fresh. And right then and there on that night. And actually we wanted to do it a few times during that ovulation window. So I think total five times. And a couple of weeks later and I was pregnant the first try. It was amazing. We were I think we kind of joked that it's the most surprise pregnancy that two, like two women can have because we were expecting, you know, a journey it could take as long as it takes, like we're ready for it whenever, blah blah blah.
00:14:50:09 - 00:15:15:11
Unknown
So that was fantastic. And, super easy peasy pregnancy with her. But we did decide to go more of like a med wives birth center route. I think it was kind of my what I thought was my middle ground of not wanting to be at home, but not wanting to be at the hospital. And it was a completely standalone, like old house in downtown Dallas.
00:15:15:12 - 00:15:44:19
Unknown
We were in Dallas at the time, so it was like a completely separate building, not even like a wing of a hospital. So, you know, it kind of felt homey. And and what do you do? You know exactly why you didn't want to be at home. And now looking back, I don't know. I don't know why. I think at the time I was still working through like rewriting my, my brain and how I'd been grown up, you know, that's my that's my best guess.
00:15:44:20 - 00:16:13:23
Unknown
But yeah. And we had heard good things and it was really beautiful. I had a big tub, like we didn't have a big tub, just like some of those things that you're like, oh, glamor. And like, that could be comfy. So, it was a rotating midwifery group and you try to meet them all before the end. And of course, that I the night that I had her was my least favorite midwife on call always happened.
00:16:14:00 - 00:16:38:21
Unknown
Always. I'm pretty sure I know the exact place you're talking about. I think I've done two different birth trauma debriefs with women who have like transferred from there. There can't be many of what you're describing. Yeah, I think there's a few. Yeah, I think there's one that's in two different houses. And I don't know if I really want to given the gossip, but it's.
00:16:38:22 - 00:16:43:11
Unknown
Oh no, it's fine shutting. It's shutting down.
00:16:43:13 - 00:17:08:11
Unknown
They don't really survive. That's so interesting. Is that. Well I think they have way more restrictions on their, their rules and regulations are way, way, way, way, way more strict than being inside a hospital or being in a home setting. And so I think that alone makes it really challenging. I think they're also pretty expensive to maintain. Yeah.
00:17:08:12 - 00:17:40:18
Unknown
No, I think this one had a few suits filed and then there's that. Yeah. Anyways, so I yeah, really simple, straightforward pregnancy. I honestly had been having a lot of like health income before getting pregnant about like my digestive system and all this kind of mess that I had seeked out, sought out medical care for, even like in ERS and certain things because I was just extremely like unhealthy.
00:17:40:18 - 00:18:06:13
Unknown
I was just really anxious and healthy and healthy and nobody could give me an answer like there was nothing. There was no answer for me in the medical system. And I think I had to go through that to realize, like, oh, like you don't have the answers about my body. So that was another part of like, think that, because then when we moved into the pregnancy, my body just like turned 180 and was so healthy, I didn't have any digestive issues.
00:18:06:13 - 00:18:33:04
Unknown
I didn't have the anxiety anymore. I was just like, oh, my body is like literally doing what it was made to do. It's so cool. I love that. And really, the pregnancy with the midwife check ins was pretty smooth to pretty drama free. The only drama there was was that blood sugar test. It actually came up too low like I had high ho.
00:18:33:08 - 00:19:02:00
Unknown
What is it called? Yeah, yeah, the opposite of that. Whatever that means, whatever that means, whatever keep eating is basically they were like, just eat a lot. I was like, okay, I can do that. Yeah. And then it came around to birthing time and I started feeling like tightening and all the things right on 40 weekday.
00:19:02:02 - 00:19:32:20
Unknown
And I was like, is this it, is this it is this it? Every single day. But it wasn't until five days later that started leaking waters and bouncing on the ball. Like, I think this is the real thing. I'm trying to get in contact with the midwives. Can we come in there like, but wait, just stay home a little bit longer and we're like, okay, I don't want to go on this car ride when I'm so far along, you know, just like all this extra, like head stuff that I'm like, so glad I didn't have this time.
00:19:32:22 - 00:19:52:21
Unknown
It's just so much. I don't know how it is in Texas, but in LA, the in California, the patient isn't allowed to be at the birth center for more than 24 hours. And so that's a part of pushing them off, pushing them off. Because then there's also like a postpartum time, which is usually very short in a birth center.
00:19:52:21 - 00:20:20:03
Unknown
But yeah, it's pretty fucked up actually, because you actually and I don't really know, a birth is being transparent about that. So I wonder how it is in Texas. I don't know, I think they also often overbooked themselves. And so they only had two birthing suites and sometimes it would get really stacked. So anyways, I finally at one point come in because I had felt a pop, I knew some waters were leaking.
00:20:20:03 - 00:20:43:12
Unknown
I was feeling like pretty intensely, but I had done some hypno birthing like courses which which give or take I think were fine, but I think they were perfect for me at that time to enter back into my body, because I had not really done breathwork or anything like that. And the way that I took it through that was entering into my body instead of out of my body.
00:20:43:12 - 00:21:07:12
Unknown
And so it was just like lots of breathing and centering, and I felt like I was handling it well. It's also handling it pretty well. But also was getting so intense. So we got there and the midwife's, you know, checking my dilation, which was so painful. And she's like, oh, you're full. And I was like, what? Oh, you're fully dilated.
00:21:07:13 - 00:21:40:10
Unknown
And we were like, well, you know, then it's the freak out called birth photographer called doula called the birth assist. They all got to get here because this mom's like about to give birth, you know. And so we were like, oh, that's awesome. You know, like, wow, that was so easy and quick and blah blah blah. But as you can probably imagine, I don't have a baby for a long time after that because I was I feel like I probably had just kind of closed, you know, closed myself off because then we had gotten there.
00:21:40:10 - 00:22:07:10
Unknown
I was trying to settle in, and it was just really strange because I look back and I'm just like, why? Who in their actual right mind would tell a laboring woman to walk stairs? And that is what I was told to do for our worse, because they thought baby was wasn't descending. I just, I just remember, I mean, you just go along with it like you just do what they tell you to do.
00:22:07:12 - 00:22:33:21
Unknown
And that was the vibe, right? And so I was just doing that. And I look back even at like my birth video that I had of that and I'm just on the stairs puking my guts out because, yeah, I feel so much in that verse so much and just couldn't hold on to myself. Like, we got there around 10 p.m. and I didn't have her till 6:45 a.m. and I think I would.
00:22:33:22 - 00:22:50:23
Unknown
I felt like I was in transition that whole time, like I was in major pain. I kept putting me on the peanut ball to like, open up my cervix. And I kept asking. This was the crazy part two. I kept asking to get in the pool and they kept saying, well, go on, go in the toilet one more time.
00:22:51:00 - 00:23:07:03
Unknown
You know, go on the peanut ball one more time and then we'll get on the back. Okay? Go, go to the bathroom one more time, and then we'll get in the bath to the point where Rebecca at one point was like, she's going in the bath right now, so please stop. Like, just stop. She's going in the bath right now.
00:23:07:05 - 00:23:30:13
Unknown
And so I went in that bath and oh my gosh, that was when I went out of my body. That's when I just Zend. Maybe I just like relax a little bit, you know, because I've been walking stairs. Okay. Anyways, 40 weeks pregnant we, I finally like lay down Rebecca of course is like trying to like care for me as much as she can throughout it all.
00:23:30:14 - 00:23:55:10
Unknown
Like trying to give me back rubs and head rubs and all these things. But she's also in that power dynamic, feeling like we've kind of debriefed about it afterwards, too. She's like, I felt like something was wrong, but like, there's just such power dynamics that you don't know what to do with yourself. So finally got in the pool, was in there for a while, really relaxed, felt the sensations and the tightening, but not the pain.
00:23:55:12 - 00:24:20:20
Unknown
It's really great. And then all of a sudden, like, I think we, I think you need to start pushing. Do you feel pushy? Do you feel pushy? Do you feel pushy? Like she asked me that and I like that's pushy and I'm a mom. What the frick does pushy feel like? It's such an asinine question, because when you see a woman pushing, it's pretty goddamn obvious what I mean.
00:24:20:21 - 00:24:44:00
Unknown
Like, yeah. Can you imagine going up to someone throwing up or about to throw up and being like, are you gonna are you going to are you going to throw up? Like, if you aren't throwing up, then you're, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, you're not then you're not throwing. Right? If you're not pushing, it's such a dumb, controlling question that does so much damage to to the vibe you just got in.
00:24:44:02 - 00:25:02:22
Unknown
Yeah. For sure. Hate moving through. So of course I'm kind of manipulated out of the pool to push again, to go on the peanut ball, to lay on the bed, all the things. And then at one point they're checking again. It's like 3 a.m. and they're checking me again and they're like, oh, there's a lip to cervical lip.
00:25:02:22 - 00:25:23:00
Unknown
That's why he's not coming out their heads. Ace in clinic. It's not going to come out. You know, on its own. We've got to melt the slip on the peanut ball and oh my gosh, when they put me on that peanut ball again I, I punched her. I bit her like I was in so much pain. It was like it was so bad.
00:25:23:02 - 00:25:46:19
Unknown
But of course, I'm laying there with my leg of repeatable. Like sometimes I look back and I'm like, but you're laying there anyways. You're not doing anything else. Yeah. Torture. Yeah. It truly felt like torture. And then finally at that point, I think I was just kind of getting done with that. And maybe I started feeling pushy because I was like, I'm pushing now.
00:25:46:21 - 00:26:10:13
Unknown
And so I started pushing and of course with help and fingers in me pushing the lip aside, all of that crazy stuff. Baby came out in like 20 minutes. Very, very like I think obviously I was done. And so I was like, I am pushing this baby out with all of my might. Pushed her out. They put her on my chest pretty quick, wiped her face and things.
00:26:10:13 - 00:26:30:23
Unknown
But I remember laying there and like her on my chest and like not seeing her for multiple minutes because, like, her head was there and I hadn't actually seen her as she was being pulled up, so I didn't know what she looked like. I didn't know her eye color. I remember laying there kind of just frozen, right? And just like, oh, there's a baby on me.
00:26:30:23 - 00:26:56:01
Unknown
And like, I'm tearing, but I'm not crying. It's like those, like, kind of automatic tears and definitely a little bit overwhelmed with all the people and a baby on my chest. That's all done. But I still kind of hurt. And, you know, it was just, oh, it's it's, it's it was weird. It's traumatic. You know, if we were if we were to a definition.
00:26:56:01 - 00:27:41:05
Unknown
I heard of trauma a long time ago that I really liked, that I think about a lot. Is things occurring that your mind isn't able to keep up with in real time? Like not able to integrate in real time as it's unfolding. And I think about this situation, which is so common, and because your medical provider stole your moment, right where in a physiological birth, you know, in a, in a the, you know, in a, in a normal birth, there's steps of how the mother meets her baby that are really important for the mother's integration in her consciousness and for the baby, too.
00:27:41:06 - 00:28:00:11
Unknown
Sure. And, you know, women all the time. Tell me that, you know, they have this baby pulled out, placed on their, you know, after being abused for quite some time, and then the baby's there and. Yeah, like, just like how you described it's kind of almost this like flat moment where it's, it's not integrated because of how baby winds up.
00:28:00:12 - 00:28:41:20
Unknown
You know, you did not bring baby. And really most women don't actually bring baby right to the chest. They do a visual assessment. Assessment. Yeah I thought about that. Yeah. It's it's it's really sad and it's such a quick thing that I don't think women like really slow down to kind of credit why they feel so whatever the word is disoriented or like full of oxytocin or any of these things, a lot of women will just say like, you know, I just felt like shock or just like, glad it was out of me, but not actually like, yeah, but it was over to, you know, and and it's also hard when everyone's like celebrating
00:28:41:20 - 00:29:05:10
Unknown
around you, like with these big spaces and smiles and I mean, even Rebecca, like, you just pushed our baby out like she has the greatest of intentions of like, oh my gosh. It's, you know, it's intense anyways. Yeah. Big stuff. And then after that going back in the bath for like a little herbal bak we had afterwards. But four hours were up and they were like by, you know, like see you later.
00:29:05:12 - 00:29:25:11
Unknown
And that's when we were kind of like, okay, all right, I guess we'll go home now. It was just it felt very rushed. It felt very quick there. Like, watch this video, do this thing, read this, sign this. Right. Oh, man. Crazy, crazy. But we got home and it was pretty great and pretty so forwarded postpartum wise after that.
00:29:25:12 - 00:29:49:03
Unknown
I mean, Rebecca is just probably the best caregiver there ever could be of a postpartum mom two times now. Like just helping me to the toilet, helping me back, doing all the things. Good. Yeah. And how how did this kind of unfold? Like, I'm sure it happens in layers, but do you have a sense pretty early that you didn't like how that went?
00:29:49:03 - 00:30:21:02
Unknown
Or did that take years? Yeah, I think it took I think it took time probably until Nia got me interest. Like even listening to Free Birth City podcast and like her talking about her birth. And I mean, because we walked through our pregnancy together with her first as well. And so I think we are all kind of walking this together of like, oh, it could be better than that, right?
00:30:21:03 - 00:30:52:07
Unknown
Like that. We thought that was great in the moment, but oh, it could be so much better. Okay, so you did leave that birth being like, that was amazing. I think I felt empowered and most people were like congratulating me for doing it unmedicated. Right? So they're like, you just birthed a baby without drugs. Like. And I felt pretty proud of that because, yeah, I think there are a lot of women from that birth center who do transfer because they're so exhausted and they go get epidurals, which honestly, you know, don't really blame them.
00:30:52:07 - 00:31:19:06
Unknown
And or they go and get an emergency or whatever. So, like, I felt proud of myself for doing it. I think that was the biggest emotion. So at that point we were just I did a lot more. I think it took over a year because I was just reading back my birth like thing that I wrote about my first birth, and I didn't have the same sentiments that I do now.
00:31:19:06 - 00:31:44:02
Unknown
So that was a year after I birthed her. So she's three now. I think it took a couple years to fully digest that birth and hearing, birth center or midwife stories on the podcast too. And what did that like for you? Oh, just like, oh, that sounds similar. Oh, you know, like, oh yeah, that's kind of that's kind of what happened to me.
00:31:44:04 - 00:32:05:23
Unknown
And just a continual thinking, like, I think it was that little, you know, piece of my brain that's like, it could be better, you know, it could be better than that. There's so many layers to this. I have so much to say. But one of the things to about interesting about that whole postpartum was Rebecca actually induced lactation to also feed our kiddo.
00:32:05:23 - 00:32:27:07
Unknown
And she went through a whole like protocol multiple months before baby was born, pumping around the clock, doing all that sort of thing, wanting to have a breastfeeding relationship with the baby as well. And, you know, you you bring that up to people and they're like, oh, that's so amazing. Like, you can not have to wake up in the night.
00:32:27:07 - 00:32:55:03
Unknown
You can take turns, you can go do your own thing, and no baby is going to be breastfed at home. And so we were like pretty jazzed about it. You know, we're excited to experience that together. But after birth, I was extremely possessive of the baby. Yeah. And territorial and like out of my mind feeling which I know is postpartum hormones.
00:32:55:03 - 00:33:26:10
Unknown
And I also look back to thinking of like my birth was also kind of traumatic, like taking the baby out of me. And so I yeah, it was really, really hard for our marriage. Did you follow? Did you let her do it? Did she follow through? So the the thought was especially the first few weeks, I would obviously have primary because I was healing my body and connecting to baby and oxytocin and regulating my supply because I didn't know what my supply would be like, all that.
00:33:26:10 - 00:33:53:18
Unknown
So I was. Yes. So I was 100% priority and we all knew this. She just wanted to like maybe latch one search like once a day after a couple weeks to have the baby know how to latch and that sort of thing on her because it's different. So we tried doing that like once or twice a day, and that was not I did not do very well.
00:33:53:18 - 00:34:20:19
Unknown
But it's so personal. It's so personal and so emotional. Fill and motion filled, especially when it's two women. And she actually was like kind of one of her professions is like lactation consultant. Like she's really passionate about breastfeeding mothers. And so she wanted to have that experience herself. And I, we, we had not heard anyone doing anything like this before, so we had no way to expect it in our mindset that we were at the time.
00:34:20:21 - 00:34:43:15
Unknown
Would you say that you were 100% on board with that prior to the birth? I think so, yeah. I mean, I didn't know, right? Right. It's conceptual, especially because I didn't know how I would mother. I didn't know how I would birth, I didn't know how I'd breastfeed. So before that, you're just kind of like, oh, cool. We can kind of just do this thing like a team project, right?
00:34:43:16 - 00:35:04:18
Unknown
Like it? You don't have a way to. Yeah, well that's okay. Like when I like if if. Well, I mean, it has occurred when a, when a, when two women have to come to me before one of them births to talk about this, I have a whole like complete opposite and spectrum perspective of, of what I would say.
00:35:04:18 - 00:35:28:11
Unknown
And it, you know, like the whole really like that whole perspective you received from everyone around you, I'd say is like quite misogynistic and anti like anti baby really. Like it's anti-bias, you know. Did you know. And we're in an interesting culture. And I mean you're two women to begin with. So it's already opening up edges of conversation around parenting already.
00:35:28:12 - 00:35:48:16
Unknown
Right. Like even the way that you brought the baby in is, is, you know, it's different or effortful or like it's a different arena. Right? We know this. Yeah. Yeah. And so. Wow. Yeah. So you didn't have anyone to talk to to counsel who had been through it. That's such a that's such a big I'm really like putting myself.
00:35:48:17 - 00:36:13:16
Unknown
Yeah. In your postpartum and just how intense that must have been. Right? I felt crazy, especially when it was my own wife, the other parent of my child, that I trusted completely with everything. But if she would walk out of the room with the baby, I'd be like, is she going to breastfeed? Is she is she going to be, oh, she's gonna breastfeed.
00:36:13:19 - 00:36:37:13
Unknown
I can't do that. You know, I just, I, I would spiral and I would get crazy. And so were you forthcoming about that pretty quickly I think I know I'm trying to think back, but I think we, we talked about it as much as we could. She was very emotional about it. I was very emotional about it. But we like tried to like say that I was uncomfortable.
00:36:37:14 - 00:37:14:18
Unknown
Like, obviously I would just cry a lot. So like, you also can't really hide that. Yeah. So that was just so such a weird part of it. But then it was like 6 or 8 weeks in really started refusing her. Yeah, yeah. So then of course I'm feeling a little bit of positive feelings while Rebecca is melting down because her baby is screaming at her breast, and that is like a lot for her too.
00:37:14:20 - 00:37:38:18
Unknown
So yeah, then that just kind of came to be where she pumped for a few months more to kind of help supplement my supply as I went back to work because I'm teaching. I was teacher at the time, so I went back full time around four months postpartum. And so her supply kind of helped my supply keep up with release.
00:37:38:20 - 00:37:48:18
Unknown
And she stopped pumping around six months. Would you very briefly say what the.
00:37:48:20 - 00:38:25:18
Unknown
Protocol is to get a non-pregnant woman lactating? For sure. So it generally people do different ways, but generally you start taking birth control for two months to or a few months actually to tell your body that you're pregnant and you skip the placebo pills. And that kind of is to raise hormone levels, and then you stop. And along this way, you're also taking another drug that's not fully legal in the United States, but it's for helping breastfeeding in every other country of the world.
00:38:25:19 - 00:38:55:10
Unknown
It's like a drug, probably people know. And so you take that alongside while you're taking the birth control, and then all of a sudden, whenever you want to start feeding the baby. I know a lot of adoptive moms try this as well. They drop the birth control and then start pumping. And it's supposed to be that progesterone drop to like a birth and then pump around the clock every two hours like a newborn would.
00:38:55:12 - 00:39:28:16
Unknown
And some women's bodies respond in such different ways. And she actually got a really good response and got a full supply of milk from it. Wow. Yeah, she donated so much breast milk before the baby was even born, because it was just all filling up our freezer. Wow. Okay. Yeah. So by six months, it's done. Yes. I can only imagine.
00:39:28:18 - 00:40:05:03
Unknown
Yeah. The complicated vibes in the household. And so obviously you're still together. How how does that go. I think my question right. I think there's also something to be said about like women like we were we compartmentalized definitely in some, in some ways because it was just that side of our relationship that was like struggling. Everything else was like bliss of having a chunky, gorgeous, healthy baby.
00:40:05:05 - 00:40:08:17
Unknown
And so.
00:40:08:18 - 00:40:39:10
Unknown
It was definitely released, though for everybody when she stopped because she was no longer tied to a pump or like feeling the feelings of like, why am I pumping when I could be feeding a baby, but my baby won't feed off me sort of thing? Was she ever able in that window to. I mean, it's like a really personal question, but was she ever able to, like, really get and hear your, you know what?
00:40:39:10 - 00:41:22:01
Unknown
What is a very primal, protective, yeah, stance? I think so like I have heard now that I have now that we did it, we've actually come in contact with a couple different lesbian moms who have also done it and had, I think, bigger struggles because we are super communicative, that I think that she did get it. And especially since stopping pumping, I feel like that kind of helped to distance and like even a year later, having a more in-depth conversation about it was healing for both of us, because I think she completely understands where I was coming from now.
00:41:22:03 - 00:41:44:14
Unknown
And you know what? Some of it even having to do with the birth, because we didn't really understand the trauma that had happened in that birth for a year and a half or two. I think that also helped her frame it as well, that it's like, obviously it's not that I don't trust you. It's not that I don't love you or that I don't think you could help our baby survive.
00:41:44:14 - 00:42:14:15
Unknown
I don't have any of those, like, mental thoughts. It's just literally the primal things inside of me responding to what was happening. So yes. And then I think she's like in the pregnancy, it's a theoretical idea, like you can intellectually agree to it, but the lived experience of birthing you're young and nursing you're young is incredibly specific to that mother baby flow like ecosystem, right?
00:42:14:15 - 00:42:46:19
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it really just just the other parent just isn't a part of it. Yeah. You know, and like by design, I'm not talking about opinions or values or any of that stuff, but by literal design. Yeah. Yeah that's really, really complicated. So so you move through that. But everything else is wonderful. Yeah. And take us into then the next, the next pregnancy.
00:42:46:19 - 00:43:12:15
Unknown
And of course I'm curious why she doesn't then carry. Yeah. So right after that I have to say that we were still we definitely were still subscribing to some medical things at that point and a year after, because we wanted our kiddos to be two years apart, roughly because we wanted for. And it's like kind of wanted to have our babies now and then be out of that stage of our life and be with our family.
00:43:12:15 - 00:43:46:12
Unknown
So we started working towards reciprocal IVF, which is like the most medical like way you can do with two moms, I have to say. But we just had this envisioning of my biological egg with the exact same donor, all of the kiddos being the same biology and her carrying that embryo. So we. Yeah. So then we go to Mexico the year after our daughter was born.
00:43:46:13 - 00:44:16:02
Unknown
I mean, generally had a good doctor. I mean, he was fine. He was great. And the hormones jacked me up bad because you're doing egg extraction. Retrieval. Yeah. And I just wanna make sure the listeners are following what you're saying, that it's the same donor. So you're bringing it frozen down there? No. He came, he came? Yeah. So he comes down with you.
00:44:16:04 - 00:44:45:12
Unknown
He's just all in. Yeah. He is. He's awesome. He's, And then. But you do egg retrieval, which has its own, like, massive can of risks and. Oh, yeah. Wow. Like getting toll on your body, but it's successful. You get the eggs out. Oh, lots of eggs like 25. And then I think 22 were viable. And then when they made the embryos, it went down to nine after five days.
00:44:45:12 - 00:45:08:23
Unknown
So we had nine embryos down there and we decided to do one fresh. So like it didn't even get frozen. They matched them up and put it in her. And that was in July. And that one did not stick. There was no pregnancy after we had gotten home. And so, you know, we thought that it would be cheaper going to Mexico because it's so expensive here in America.
00:45:08:23 - 00:45:42:03
Unknown
But I don't think we thought through of like, except if it doesn't work, keep going down to Mexico. So anyways, so we decided to do the next month, Rebecca went down again with her friend. I had stayed back with Renly here, which was also really weird and wild. She goes down like gets shot up pregnant with two embryos, comes back and do we do get a positive pregnancy test from that?
00:45:42:05 - 00:46:08:11
Unknown
But then around I think it was six weeks she lost them both. And so then we're just reevaluating. Do we try again? Let's give your body a break. Whatever. So we give her a break, she goes back and we actually go back together in January without really we leave her back with grandparents and we're kind of trying to treat it like a baby making vacation.
00:46:08:13 - 00:46:28:03
Unknown
And we go down, put in another two embryos. We just thought that two for one would be good, like use of our time and money. It's so silly when you think about it. And also like if one sticks, maybe the other doesn't. But also we're down for twins. Like we're not scared of twins either, so we're like whatever.
00:46:28:07 - 00:46:52:05
Unknown
And we get a positive pregnancy test again when we get back. But then and we even go for an ultrasound because of course they're wanting an ultrasound to show that they're viable. We see their heartbeats at six weeks, and then we go back for the nine or 10 or 11 weeks, whatever it was. And they were not there.
00:46:52:06 - 00:47:18:03
Unknown
She was still having all of the pregnancy signs, like, because she was loading her body up with progesterone and like telling her body that she was pregnant, but they weren't growing anymore. They had probably stopped around six weeks around when we first got around, when we had first gotten that ultrasound, which was also fishy to me. But that was really rough because by this point.
00:47:18:03 - 00:47:57:04
Unknown
So this is January 2020. So starting to get weird. 2022 2022 2022. Yeah, January 2022. We're like starting to hear more about Faber Society, starting to hear a little bit more stories about sovereign births, not wanting to go into the system to let the babies go because the babies were still in there, they weren't coming out. And so it took probably about 3 or 4 weeks of waiting after knowing that they were not viable in there anymore.
00:47:57:06 - 00:48:20:07
Unknown
And then it was a pretty intense miscarriage when she finally did have it. So she stayed at home. Yeah. Actually we were out of town. We were at my parents house. Yeah. It was kind of crazy. We were supposed to go to a wedding that night and she's all of a sudden like, I'm not going to the wedding, not going to, you know, it's really sad, really hard.
00:48:20:09 - 00:48:46:04
Unknown
But yet again, we just had to regroup and be like, this has been so much, so much on her body. So many meds, so much junk, and we can't afford to go back down to Mexico. We just can't. And we were wanting a baby, and I was trying to kind of leave it into Rebecca's hands because knowing that she's one, she has a deep desire to be pregnant.
00:48:46:04 - 00:49:06:00
Unknown
I wasn't going to be like swerving in and saying, well, what about me? You know, I was just kind of waiting for her to give the. Okay, so because then that means by choosing a donor that was on her side of the family, that essentially without you guys totally realizing it at the time, signs you up as the birthing mother.
00:49:06:00 - 00:49:29:10
Unknown
If you want to keep the same genetics on the male side. So the other option would be different donor and let her be the birthing other. Yeah, I, I think a lot of it had to do too with like I have a brother too. But we were he's young and we didn't really feel comfortable with that. And so it just ultimately felt good to do it that way.
00:49:29:10 - 00:49:55:06
Unknown
But yeah, I don't think we understood what we were kind of signing up for in that way. All that being said, she was like, all right, like, I want a baby. Let's try you again. And so feeling still feeling very clear or attached to that, the male needs to be same person. Yes. Because I just like imagining myself in this situation.
00:49:55:06 - 00:50:17:10
Unknown
And I like if I really wanted to be the pregnant woman, I feel like I would less prioritize that. Yeah, yeah. I think it's also that we just we really love the way that it's been with him as our donor. Yeah, like he's just the perfect value. He wants to be a part of the life, but not too much.
00:50:17:10 - 00:50:40:14
Unknown
He wants to be involved, but not too much. He wants to help us out in all the ways. Go to Mexico, go here, there. And it's just been so perfect. We've got paper signed. Everything's like dotted, you know, all the eyes are dotted. But we, you know, in future we might be taking a different route. Like that's kind of where we're at for our future babies.
00:50:40:14 - 00:51:11:19
Unknown
If we want her to get pregnant, we might be swerving and having to do some deep figuring out of what we want to do next. But and and I want to hold space for the, the very real possibility that in making that if you guys, you know, go that route and make that decision to let go of him being the third or fourth whatever donor so that she can be the birthing mother, it's really within the realms of possibility that you find another really amazing option.
00:51:11:20 - 00:51:34:17
Unknown
You know, like he's not the only male out there who could be a really great fit. Yeah. For sure. Well so intense. Okay. Yeah, it's a lot. So she comes, she's like, let's just let's have you like let's do it. Let's start tracking cycle. Oh yeah I was I was down, I knew I wanted to be pregnant again.
00:51:34:17 - 00:51:55:23
Unknown
I knew I wanted to birth again. I was just kind of waiting for it. So yeah, that was I got my time wrong. That was 2023. So 2023 summer. We start trying again. I'm starting to track. He comes up to visit us in June. It actually doesn't work the first time comes again in July. It works again and we're pregnant again.
00:51:55:23 - 00:52:27:19
Unknown
And it just felt so easy. Like, especially after all of that wrap with IVF just to be in our own bed and like, making a baby was like, oh my gosh, like, this is, this is how it's supposed to be, right? Like, I mean, I'm picturing her and like, just how confronting that is, you know, like that really requires a high level of emotional intelligence.
00:52:27:20 - 00:52:54:13
Unknown
Oh, yeah. Maturity to. Oh, yeah. Hold the the pain. Right. Like there's got to be some layers of jealousy and comparison just because that's a natural to do in these scenarios. And also you're married in your family and this is the right family. And and she never like let's that on to me like rarely ever. It's always excitement.
00:52:54:13 - 00:53:15:18
Unknown
It's always wanting my body to be successful and like it is. And we celebrate that. And I do definitely think that if it was the other way around, I would have to do so much work, like mentally and emotionally. Me too. I'm sure she is. I'm sure she is doing absolutely, absolutely. Yeah. It's like in front of your face every day or not.
00:53:15:19 - 00:53:42:13
Unknown
Yeah. So okay. Pretty amazing. Yeah. I hope you will come to. Together we want to I know we want to so bad. We almost came this year. It was so. Oh, okay. So then, so you're pregnant. Everything's great. And now we're entering into. Okay, I have to. I want you to touch on two things. One, at what point do you align with the sovereign thing and like what is that all like?
00:53:42:14 - 00:54:10:02
Unknown
And is that happening once you're pregnant or before? Like, when are you like, I'm free birthing for sure. I also want to know about her and the nursing stuff, like, is that complete because it was such a last time or does she go again? So you know what? I think we were honestly leaning towards sovereign birth. When she was pregnant with the twins, she was actually thinking about having the twins at home.
00:54:10:02 - 00:54:31:07
Unknown
We have a in the area who's kind of like going back and forth to I think it's Alabama in here. But she would come up and like be here. Yeah. Oh she social. She's amazing. We've been to some women's circles with her and gotten to know her. And we were like, yeah, you can definitely be at our birth for her.
00:54:31:09 - 00:54:51:20
Unknown
Yeah. So she was actually planning on doing that with the twins. Now that I think about it and planning on having her come up. But obviously we had to kind of debrief with that. And actually it was perfect. Like I'm on a to talk to her about like grief and losing babies and all those sort of things was honestly really great and healing for her.
00:54:52:00 - 00:55:12:03
Unknown
So we were on that track, and then Amarna was being like kind of living most of the year elsewhere. So we didn't really have anybody else that was of option here in the area. I was honestly trying to get Nia out here, but she was like, I got to be honest with you. Like, I don't know if we can, like, we just moved to Hawaii, all that kind of stuff.
00:55:12:03 - 00:55:55:16
Unknown
So it was like more out of like there's just not really people around and I don't mind doing it the free birth way because, like, I know my body can do it and I bet it can do it better than it did last time. So constant harassment. Yeah. Well, that was that was actually a pretty easy decision. It was more just coming to terms with how to tell people if to tell people like in our sphere around here that are more medicalized, if to tell parents or not, you know, all that sort of thing, which eventually we did by the end, basically, you know, we have midwife no.
00:55:55:18 - 00:56:20:23
Unknown
Oh, and I, you know, sometimes I'd just be cheeky. It'd be like, I'm the midwife. I'm the midwife. Yeah. You know, so yeah, walking a wild pregnancy felt really easy. Felt just the way they were supposed to be. There was not really much exciting besides being exhausted with a two year old and full time working, I am still a music teacher.
00:56:20:23 - 00:56:45:14
Unknown
Right now. I'm doing elementary music and generally loving it like it's definitely right up my alley. The dream at some point to have like a little village school and be the music teacher there. But alas, here we are. And so I would like, dance and sing and like, move xylophone instruments all day and then come home and like, be jumped by a two year old and just bang out that three blind mice on recorder.
00:56:45:17 - 00:57:11:16
Unknown
Oh, it's hot cross buns, too. I guess that's fun at the same song, isn't it? Anyways, I know I was like, this baby will be able to sleep through anything because it is so chaotic outside this whole pregnancy. Yeah. So pregnancy. Pretty easy. We had a friend up here who is a midwife in the system who, you know, was one of those things.
00:57:11:17 - 00:57:35:08
Unknown
Like, if we need her, we can call on her for a test or an exam or whatever. But we kind of knew that we weren't going to do that, but that was almost for everybody else's, like, comfort level. You would just say that and they'd be like, oh, okay, okay, so long for as long as someone else is in charge, as long as it's not the parents.
00:57:35:13 - 00:58:05:06
Unknown
Right, right. Yeah. So interesting. Right. But what about the lactation stuff? Okay. Yes. So we had big conversations before and while I was pregnant, obviously in her losing the babies, there is that little fear ding ding ding in the back of her head that she won't be able to carry any of our babies and that I will mostly be doing it.
00:58:05:06 - 00:58:25:06
Unknown
And then she won't be able, because I had kept saying like, you'll carry someday and you'll know what it's like and you'll breastfeed like you'll understand someday. I was, you know, easily to say that before we went through all of this kind of trying to conceive stuff. So I think she had some fear that she wasn't going to be able to breastfeed any of our kids.
00:58:25:06 - 00:58:52:18
Unknown
And so she did want to try again, at least doing it for pumping. And she was like, I'm going to come to terms with if I'm just pumping and providing milk that way, then that's how I'm doing it, you know? And I think that that kind of helped take the pressure off of me. And I also thought in a sovereign birth, like in my free birth, where I was calling all the shots, maybe I wouldn't feel so territorial afterward.
00:58:52:19 - 00:58:58:18
Unknown
What do you mean, the pressure off of you? What pressure?
00:58:58:20 - 00:59:40:11
Unknown
I don't know, pressure to nurse. No pressure to have her nurse instead of me. Right. Okay. Because there is some level of. She's worked really hard to provide this milk. So pressure to let her nurse, I think is what I'm trying to say. Okay. But if she doesn't feel like she has to nurse, has to breastfeed on the breast, then I could call the shots I like as I felt like I should and as I felt like I would.
00:59:40:12 - 01:00:03:10
Unknown
It's so intense that the, the IVF way, you know, was her way of trying because of the situation, because that's also like the least likely to work. Right. You know, so it's it's it's like a brutal entry point for her for sure. Because the odds are are literally like very stacked against her. And that's not a reflection of her fertility.
01:00:03:12 - 01:00:24:06
Unknown
Right. You know. Yeah. That's pretty like and I think she already has like a pretty big like nervousness surrounding her fertility with what people have said about PCOS and all these sort of stories that she's been told that she already believes that she doesn't have, like the fertility and what the mainstream tells you to do then is go do IVF.
01:00:24:07 - 01:00:43:20
Unknown
If you can't, if you are going to have trouble getting pregnant, go do IVF, right? So I think when we were still in that mindset, we were when we were deciding, it seemed like, oh, well, it might be tricky for her to get pregnant anyway, so we might as well. Right? But that's what the story tells. But yeah, they don't.
01:00:43:21 - 01:01:18:00
Unknown
You don't know how brutal it is, how hard that process is. So yeah, like I said, we're kind of leaving things and holding things lightly for the future that will kind of see how things turn. That being said, she did decide to induce again and like, I guess she did, we did like I said, that's all right. Let's try this again and rewrite it and be more informed with what happened before, knowing that those emotions will be there, and knowing that we can kind of like nip it in the bud.
01:01:18:00 - 01:01:52:10
Unknown
If there is a similar issue that we would be able to talk about it and like adjust as needed. And, you know, it's been in the journey and I it feels much better this time for sure, because she's really primarily pumping and offering once or twice like a day, but never for a full feed. I don't really feel the same feelings that I did last time, and I'm able to communicate and be like, hey, I want to feed her now.
01:01:52:10 - 01:02:18:08
Unknown
Or like it's I'm feeling kind of full. Like I want to feed her now. And she's like, okay, here you go. Like, I feel like we're a lot more even and like our communication and aware that my emotions and my postpartum is priority, especially in these first few months. But here's here's the tricky thing to, okay, I am planning on going back to work again.
01:02:18:09 - 01:02:47:00
Unknown
I earn more for our family and so and I enjoy my job. And so I'm going to go back and work when she's about six months and Rebecca runs a daycare out of our home. So the girls get to stay home with her and take care of other kiddos in the home as well. And so she and I would prefer that she's like nursing versus being bottle fed throughout the day when I go back to work.
01:02:47:00 - 01:03:12:12
Unknown
And so the the hope was that she would take over daytime feeding and then I would have her whenever I'm home. So if that was nights, all weekends, all school breaks, she's nursing off of me. But when I'm at work, that Rebecca would be the one nursing. So I think that's kind of what we're doing right now is holding out for that, because I haven't gone back yet.
01:03:12:12 - 01:03:34:19
Unknown
And seeing how that pans out, because she definitely still has a preference. We, our babies, 100% have a preference for me and for feeding off me, which does make biological sense completely when if she is able to carry a pregnancy all the way.
01:03:34:21 - 01:04:03:12
Unknown
What do you think you're going to do? I know I thought for the longest time that I would also co feed because I was still breastfeeding Renly. I actually just this week stopped feeding her and she's three and so I was still nursing her. I still had no supply. The plan after she did IVF and gave birth to the babies was for me to help, especially with twins.
01:04:03:14 - 01:04:08:03
Unknown
For me to help feed.
01:04:08:05 - 01:04:46:05
Unknown
So if I'm still breastfeeding, I think I would try as well. I don't really want to do all of the extra stuff because I want to say I'm not lazy. I don't think it's lazy for not doing that. I just I don't want to. So you got the word okay? No, I just don't want to. So if I'm still breastfeeding our youngest, I definitely would try to breastfeed when I could for the same reasons that she.
01:04:46:06 - 01:05:13:03
Unknown
Of connection. Yeah, yeah. I was wondering if it had switched for you at all. Feeling. Yeah. You know, being the birthing mother. And. Absolutely. I think that there definitely is even more of a level of like continually checking in with her of like if it was okay because I know how it would, how it felt for me. We're also just very different humans.
01:05:13:03 - 01:05:34:05
Unknown
She's just much more practical brain. But we also know that postpartum doesn't involve practical brain. So, you know, I there's one way to like, talk through and be like, oh, she's probably wouldn't be as possessive as me. Like she probably wouldn't be as emotional as me, but maybe she would because it's her story and it's her birth and postpartum too.
01:05:34:06 - 01:06:00:03
Unknown
But that implies that it's like a personality trait. Yeah. It's not. Yeah. Yeah, I guess that's true. You know, whether whether she is going to be tuned into her primal nature to be the one exclusively nursing her, young or not, I don't know, she might be ignore our instincts all the time. So but I don't I don't think it would be characterized as because by that suggestion.
01:06:00:04 - 01:06:25:18
Unknown
Yeah, it means that it would be like a characteristic and I don't I don't think that's quite true. I think it's. Yeah. Anyway. Okay, so you said three months ago you had this sweet little baby three months ago. So you were tired and busy and wild pregnancy. You told everyone eventually. Yeah. And tell us your birth story for sure.
01:06:25:18 - 01:06:49:13
Unknown
It was funny how my dream birth that I had walked through multiple times before. It's pretty much how it panned out. It was around the same time line as Renly, right around 40 weeks actually. Before 40 weeks, I was feeling all of the tensions, all the tightening, you know, thinking it could be any day now. But knowing that it takes a while and it's just.
01:06:49:14 - 01:07:12:17
Unknown
And at this point we're also in the membership. And so I'm able to talk to all to the moms and free birthing and, well, pregnancy people on there. Like, is this normal or I'm in this waiting time and it's hard, you know. And about six days it was six days after 40 weeks. And I'm like, oh, I am leaking waters again.
01:07:12:18 - 01:07:34:10
Unknown
We know what this means. But I'm also trying to be like, no, it's nothing. And I just remember coming up to that point being like, I don't have to stress about going anywhere. I don't have to stress about making sure anybody's here on time. We had a photographer and she was like, really chill about, come tell me to come whenever, don't whatever.
01:07:34:15 - 01:07:55:11
Unknown
And so but there wasn't that heavy stress. I could just go into labor. And that was so nice. It's so simple. And I'm leaking waters. We're wanting to set up the birth pool, you know, not wanting to do it too early, but to have cold water. But then Rebecca is like, I can just keep boiling water and we can keep it warm.
01:07:55:11 - 01:08:22:04
Unknown
And I was like, okay, I want the pool. And then just rewriting that story, I can get in the pool whenever I freaking want and stay in the people are as long as I freaking one. And I did okay, I really did. So I got in that tub. And of course my wife is so like planning ahead in so many parts of our life.
01:08:22:04 - 01:08:43:15
Unknown
But we had not planned ahead on how exactly to fill up that tub and hadn't tried it out before, which of course was, yeah, how it was. And she was just bringing buckets, bringing bring in one at a time in there. But it was fine because we had plenty of time. Around midnight I was finally like, oh yeah, this is, this is it.
01:08:43:17 - 01:09:08:22
Unknown
And starting ramping up, listening to Yolanda's affirmations and like, some what's her name? Alexia. Oh, she's a really good music. Forget her name, but she got me through. And just doing my thing. Photographer came at one point, but I at one point I saw her, like laying on the floor on the side of my bed, just like full on laying there, just like chillin.
01:09:08:22 - 01:09:28:07
Unknown
And I was like, yes, this is how I want it to be. You're just a fly on the wall. You're laying on the ground over there. And it got very intense, like I did that whole thing of it's going to be pain free. It's going to be like a blissful birth. Nope. Not at all. Not at all.
01:09:28:07 - 01:09:55:19
Unknown
And it was intense for many hours. And I think I had also given myself the story of it was a quick labor last time, like 8 or 10 hours. This will be a quick birth. Like we all the people in my circle, Nia, all these people had had their seconds and it was like quick quote unquote. And I'm like, why is it not I am I not birthing it?
01:09:55:20 - 01:10:17:15
Unknown
It's supposed to be quick. I'm a good birther. What is this like? I'm a good birther. That's the silliest story. I'm walking back and forth from the toilet doing all the things. Rebecca's just like, you know, rubbing my back. And I'm loving the kind of, like, caretaking feeling and that sort of thing. It got intense, though, and I was kind of like, I need my space now.
01:10:17:17 - 01:10:45:05
Unknown
But all right. Up here in our bedroom, like, we were able to get the birth pull up here. And so it was all I was in here, just like in this cocoon. And it was dark and it was overnight. And I finally I get into, like, really heavy stuff of rewriting that first story. Like, I can't open up and open up enough for this baby, like the baby stuck.
01:10:45:07 - 01:11:05:11
Unknown
You know, I'm just like, saying these things out loud. I don't believe them, but I'm saying them. And, you know, Rebecca, he was saying, no, you you can do it. You know, know you're you're birthing your baby. And then I'm like, oh yeah. So then I call her because she's like on call for me. And it is hard.
01:11:05:12 - 01:11:31:08
Unknown
She's like, yeah, it's hard. You know, all of these things giving it back to me. And yeah, and eventually I felt pushy. You know? Now I actually know what it's like to feel like I'm pushing a baby out. But it was so intense in my hips, I had just, like, the hips screaming on fire. Fire. Hips still in the pool.
01:11:31:08 - 01:11:54:20
Unknown
Im holding on to the pool for dear life and just like starting to push because I'm like, I'm done. I want this baby out, I'm done. Push the baby where it feels like it's, yeah. Busting me open. You know, just expansion insanity. And I'm like, Rebecca, get back there. Get back there pushing this baby out. Get back there right now.
01:11:54:22 - 01:12:16:16
Unknown
You know? And so she just, like, barely, like, touches and pushes it to me through the water. It. Well, we didn't know if it was a boy or girl so. Okay. Kind of isn't it. Okay. And so pulling it up and I, I remember also doing the visual assessment now that you said it like that, I'm like, oh, I totally did that.
01:12:16:16 - 01:12:39:10
Unknown
But I did not look, if it was a boy or a girl. I looked at the face, I looked at that little face and everything was fine. She made sounds immediately. No worries. But we thought it was a boy the whole time. And so it was a major surprise when we were like, saw that. And there's a picture of us going like, you know, oh my gosh, it's another girl.
01:12:39:12 - 01:12:59:21
Unknown
And it was just pretty easy from there, when you're home, it's just easy, right. And I just like, waddled over to the bed. I was like, maybe I can birth my placenta in bed and start nursing and that sort of stuff. And we woke up our three year old, she came in, saw me with the placenta still in because we had talked about it all.
01:12:59:22 - 01:13:16:21
Unknown
If she was awake, we probably would have had her in there too. But it was just like, she's sleeping. Nah, but it was about 5 a.m. and we were like, let's go weaker up so she can still see it, like in process and fully integrate for herself. Like this baby was in me. It's coming out. There's still a cord, all that sort of stuff.
01:13:16:22 - 01:13:36:05
Unknown
So I finally got the placenta out, probably like 20 or 30 minutes of trying. I finally went to the toilet and sure enough, the toilet did the trick. But then. And I wanted it out. I was just like, I want just listen to out. I want to relax. I want to just get in bed and go to sleep.
01:13:36:07 - 01:13:57:13
Unknown
But not, you know, like you're in that adrenaline to where you're like, wanting to call everybody. At least I was. I was like, I want to call everybody and be like, it's a girl. This is who she is. Whatever. So I wanted to get in bed, though, and I did, and we did. And I stayed in bed for a long time and didn't really get out of my upstairs oasis for a couple weeks.
01:13:57:13 - 01:14:35:20
Unknown
So finally, when we braved going downstairs, I just remember starting to get that feeling of like, okay, I need to, I need to get out of here. But there was no pressure to do it. And. Right. Yeah. Yeah, totally. At your own pace. Yeah. So it was it was beautiful. But it was also really, really hard. And I think even listening to stories like yours or, you know, other births that are just like really intense and really painful has helped even me to integrate it more because you see all these pictures of home birth being blissful and beautiful and like, picturesque.
01:14:35:22 - 01:15:02:00
Unknown
That's all you see, I guess pictures of my birth, parts of my foot. Yeah, yeah. A picture does not speak a thousand words. Not all the time. Right? But also I was thinking when you were like. It wasn't blissful. I was thinking like, yeah, the bliss part comes eventually. Yeah. You know, it was my birth was not blissful at all.
01:15:02:01 - 01:15:28:11
Unknown
Mine was like traveling through a hellscape. Yeah, that was great. Yeah, right. But then it was great because especially, you know, you did it and like, you did it your own way and have your baby. And I was just thinking when I was listening to you, my kiddo is almost two. And I, as you were talking about the fire hips and stuff, I was like, I kind of can't remember it anymore.
01:15:28:13 - 01:15:42:08
Unknown
Wow, it's been long enough. It's young enough. Yeah, yeah, but I can't quite remember how horrible. And there's that biology that lets you have another baby.
01:15:42:10 - 01:16:12:17
Unknown
Amnesia. Well, thank you. Thank you very much. I appreciate you sharing the, you know, the more tender, sensitive aspects of, of this and the things you guys have faced because it, it is I mean, like, it's like beyond taboo. Like no one talks about this stuff publicly. I don't think I mean, maybe they do and I don't know about it.
01:16:12:22 - 01:16:42:22
Unknown
Yeah. Not at this point that we can find and which I think is good for our own, like figuring it out ourselves. We're forced to we're forced to figure it out ourselves into, like, forced about it together. I think even if you heard other people's opinions are still forced. You still have to go, yes, your life. And I mean, even just thinking, since we've had really our mindsets on so many things have completely evolved that we are like new mothers were new and different, and leaving space for that to continue is better.
01:16:43:01 - 01:17:06:07
Unknown
Yeah. Better. Yeah. Right. Like that's I just had that in the last episode, the last person I was interviewing like, if you're not, if you're not like constantly kind of evaluating and questioning what you're doing, that would imply that you're like not continuing to wake up even if you keep doing it with that's great too. You don't have to change.
01:17:06:07 - 01:17:30:00
Unknown
But if you're not waking up, what are you doing right? Which the more we wake up, the more things we change, it seems. Yeah. All right. Thank you. Yes. Thank you for your time. All right. Take care. You too. Have a good one.
01:17:30:02 - 01:17:55:13
Unknown
I hope you enjoyed the show today. You can support this podcast by donating to it through the link in the show notes below. And of course, leaving an awesome review on whatever platform you listen on. The more reviews, the more visibility the show gets. So let's spread the good word of sovereign birth. Don't forget, you can watch our podcast interviews on YouTube and see the women as they tell their birth and power stories.
01:17:55:13 - 01:18:27:23
Unknown
And you'll also find our viral free birth collection of epic raw birth videos on our YouTube. Make sure you're subscribed to our channel! We've always got a lot going on at Free Birth Society, and you can find out all about it at Freiburg Society, Freiburg Society on Instagram and opt in to my newsletter below. We offer courses on free birth, authentic midwifery, the blood mysteries, as well as one on one coaching, in-person retreats and of course, our annual women's gathering, the Matriarch Rising Festival.
01:18:28:00 - 01:18:53:04
Unknown
Our exclusive private vetted membership. The Lighthouse is definitely something to check out. If you're looking for a community of wise sisters to get guidance from and to meet in real life. Together we rise. Sisters. We must speak our stories, fully, claim our lives, and support one another. This is the living revolution and I am so grateful to be in it with all of you.
01:18:53:04 - 01:19:28:19
Unknown
I'll leave you with our gorgeous free birth society theme song, Wild Woman by Aruba. Read I honor you for the wisdom you held, the ancient traditions of plant medicine and womb magic. I feel the spirit of the ancestors as I place my hands upon my belly. This sacred water will be honored eons upon light. Themes of survival withstanding the eradication of your power by design.
01:19:28:21 - 01:19:55:04
Unknown
I will not allow the separation of our young to be forced upon me. My sisters will no longer birth in captivity the picket line redefine from burning our wild women to paralyzing us and drugging our babes. Strapped down in a clinical white bed, drying up the milk from our breasts. Keep your needles. My family will never again be doomed to chase those dragons.
01:19:55:04 - 01:20:21:09
Unknown
All your poison. We reject your fear. We choose love. Everything with intention, a death ascension. I will fly and bring her back from the stars. Just. Just conception of consciousness. While the moon is still lives inside.
01:20:21:11 - 01:20:28:07
Unknown
Wild woman from you I will not hide.
01:20:28:08 - 01:20:43:04
Unknown
They could not bend your spirit away. So please teach me your way. I'm ready to love from you. Why, woman.
01:20:43:06 - 01:20:50:13
Unknown
I still run, run, run, run with the wolves when it's time.
01:20:50:15 - 01:20:58:00
Unknown
I still run, run, run, run, run. We were all once wild.
01:20:58:02 - 01:21:05:08
Unknown
I still run, run, run with the wolves when it's time.
01:21:05:10 - 01:21:10:19
Unknown
We all came from. While the woman.
