Speaker 0
Into the wild, I'm going into the wild, I am. It's been a wild, freedom child since I left my roots back home. Into the wild I'm good. Into the wild I am. It's been a wild freedom child since I left my roots back home.
Speaker 1
Welcome to the Free Birth Society podcast. This is a radical space for women who are ready to celebrate their autonomous choices in birth, motherhood, and beyond. Together, we'll learn about wild birth through personal narrative, we'll explore the politics of birth, and we'll analyze everything that relates to our lives as women from a feminist perspective. Here's your host, Emilee Saldaya. It's
Speaker 0
been a wild freedom check since I've left my rules back home.
Speaker 2
Matric Rising Festival, our annual summer solstice women's gathering, is here on my gorgeous land in the Blue Ridge Mountains, and it is the place to connect with me and the free birthing women and sovereign midwives of this epic birth liberation movement. I teach classes and host an intimate meet and greet the very first night of the festival, and you will even catch me DJing. Yes. I am matriarch one.
Speaker 3
You'll get
Speaker 2
to meet all of our Freebird Society luminaries, our wise women teachers, who you know from your favorite FBS courses. You'll meet the very women I interview on this podcast. This is the place for wild women and moms to meet up, connect, and forge friendships that can last a lifetime. It's truly the climax of everything we do, and MRF is so close to my heart. We're scaling back MRF twenty five to be the most intimate yet, capping it at only a hundred and fifty tickets because this year, I wanna go deep. I just love the experience of getting to know each and every one of you by the end of the festival. For a long time, I held the vision of creating a women's gathering where true sisterhood could be woven, and matriarch rising is the manifestation of my dreams. I'm so glad I get to share it with all of you, and I want you there this year. Come learn directly from me and surround yourself with powerful women from all ages, all walks of life, and from all over the world. Make sure you sign up for our mailing list so that you can be the first to know when we roll out all of our insider insights of this summer's festival. I'll see you soon. Welcome, Kiana.
Speaker 3
Hello. Hello.
Speaker 2
Hi. Nice to have you here, and I'm excited to hear your story as it comes out today. I guess it could never be your whole story, but however it's
Speaker 3
gonna Yeah. There's so much to say, but I'm really excited to share it with you. I guess some backstory with me is just that I always knew I wanted to be a mom. And kind of early in my life, I just decided I'm gonna have a home birth one day. It just kind of came out of nowhere because I didn't really know anybody who's doing that sort of thing. And then later in life, I just decided, oh, I wanna be a midwife. And that also just kind of came a little bit out of nowhere, but it just felt like this deep calling. And I probably read some horrible birth story once, and I just thought, I have to be I have to get in, to this world and just be an option, for women. And so I just kind of a little while after I guess not too long after high school, I started to train, to become a CNM just because that was the only route I knew of at the time.
Speaker 2
And where are you located?
Speaker 3
So I'm in Arizona.
Speaker 2
Okay.
Speaker 3
At the time, I was in Southern Arizona, and then, later on in the story, I moved up to Northern Arizona. Yeah. And so I just started training for that, or just doing the schooling for it. And so you have to become a nurse first, and that was the route I was on. And later, I realized that there was this whole other route to become a CPM. So I just, like, hard turn, switch gears, and I started doing that. And so I did that for three more years. What school did you go to? It was Mercy in Action. So it's a meek accredited school, and I actually had a really good experience with it. It was just, you know, down the line, you just see that you can't bypass the regulations and things like that. And so that just felt too restrictive for me, and, I just felt like I started knowing too much about the system and why they do what they do, and it just didn't resonate with me at all. And I knew that I didn't want that for my birth, so why would I want to be that in someone else's birth?
Speaker 2
Yeah. That's exactly what happened to me. So were you were unpacking this while in school. Like, did you have other peep like, how how were you grounding yourself in an alternative way of thinking as you're going through medical midwifery school? And and you said three years. So, yeah, what happened?
Speaker 3
Yeah. I think it just was so deeply ingrained to me naturally because my parents always raised us to be very connected to nature and thinking for ourselves. You know? And so just my inclination always was to the natural world and, you know, I just saw how up and down science really was. It was like they change their minds about one thing, and then years later, they would go back to what they said, which always felt to me like it came back to just, you know, the idea that nature is is, I think, the the kind of the cure for most things. And just connecting to that resolves a lot of issues in our modern life. And so I think I just saw that, and I have a good memory. And so it was just easy to to see how fickle everything was, I think. And, so I just remembered that going through, nursing school and then midwifery school. And, and my mentors were very also you know, they really did believe that it was a natural process, and, they actually opened my mind up to a lot of things that Faber Society eventually like, I started learning from you guys. But, again, I just kind of kept coming back to where, okay, the system doesn't align with, with me, you know, and with taking that really flexible approach and individual approach to every single woman in birth. And so, yeah, it just so it wasn't anything super dramatic. It's just, like, I really saw my path just kind of going a different direction. But I didn't really have anyone that, was also on that train of thought, I guess. It just felt like I just felt like I was seeing so many inconsistencies with the system and the evidence and all that. So
Speaker 2
So then did you quit the school, or did you become a CPM?
Speaker 3
I quit the school.
Speaker 2
Okay. That's a big deal after three years.
Speaker 3
Yeah. It was. And, yeah, I quit kind of towards the end. And, yeah, but I guess that's kind of my personality is right when something doesn't align, I can't stand it anymore, and I just have to I just have to get back to balance for myself. And so, right when I felt that that wasn't the way I wanted to go, I just couldn't take it. So even though, again, nothing really happened, I just it just wasn't for me at that point. And how long ago was this? This was last year.
Speaker 2
Oh, recent. Okay.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. And it was funny, actually, because right when I left, you guys announced MMI, and I just thought, okay. You know, this can be kind of my a transition point and get the mentorship that aligns more with just kind of where I feel like I'm going. And, yeah, so it kinda felt like a little bit of a godsend at that point, and I just felt, okay. Well, this will be me just taking still that last year of mentorship and, you know, just kind of and a lot of it has been really validating. I think that's what I was looking for with it was I'm seeing all these things, but I don't really have, just like a solid person who's been walking the walk outside of the system for a while. And, so yeah, and I really felt like I got that. You know? Just it's been it's felt really good, way more aligned. So that was a big part of my journey, and I was pregnant at that point too.
Speaker 2
Yeah. I was gonna say, and you also prebirthed while you're in MMI, so this has been a really big year for you.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. It really has. It's been really awesome. I got pregnant right around with this, baby, last year, probably just before I left my midwifery school. And that was the other thing. I actually in total, this was my fourth pregnancy, and I had lost the three Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2
That's a lot.
Speaker 3
Yeah. It was, and that was such a journey. It really felt like it, led to just obviously who I am today and who I was when I gave birth. But every every loss really, like, pushed me into some direction to let go of something that wasn't serving me anymore. And, the last one was kind of my midwifery school. I just or or sorry. That was this pregnancy, and and, yeah, it just kind of led me to, just take another path. Every single one was so inspiring every pregnancy. But, yeah. And so, yeah, I guess that's my backstory. And I had these other pregnancies. We moved off grid to right around the time that I started midwifery school and into a trailer and eventually into a yurt. And, you know, I'm joining you here from my friend's house for their Wi Fi. But yeah. So a a ton of big changes for me. It's totally a different mode of living to be off grid, and I went from somewhere with no seasons to all the seasons, and that was a big adjustment. But, yeah, I took my time, and we consciously conceived all of these pregnancies. But I really felt at some point, like, I just lost my vitality, and I really felt like I did everything I would ever recommend somebody else to do when it comes to taking care of self. You know, I was eating organic and getting sunshine and just doing all the holistic care, but I just kept losing these pregnancies. And, you know, it was very devastating, but I never doubted my body just because I knew there's a reason my body is releasing these pregnancies, and I trust that, and I trust God. And I just kept I never went to the system for any of that. I just went through it at home.
Speaker 2
Were they all on the early end of things?
Speaker 3
The first one was very early, four weeks. The next one was ten weeks. And then the next one was maybe eight weeks or something. So, yeah, on the early side. And yeah. So Ugh. That's a headache. Fuck. Yeah. Oh my gosh. It was. And but, yeah, I really tried super hard to not doubt my body and not, you know, just be mean to myself that way. And Sure.
Speaker 2
But it's a big did. I mean, one versus three is Yeah. I'm just putting myself in your shoes. Just three
Speaker 3
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
Is just harder to stay in that state of trust. And, I I mean, if there's anything else you wanna share about that because I also know that it's not uncommon. And I Mhmm. I hear from women pretty regularly, actually, who have had two or three or even four losses and, especially on the early side. I don't I don't know that that's, like, super uncommon.
Speaker 3
Right. And I think about that too. And how many women just don't know? Because that one did line up with where I was supposed to have my cycle, but I just knew because I was tracking and doing all the things. And so and I felt it. You know? I feel I really tried to be in tune with myself and my spirit, and I just knew that I was pregnant. And and, yeah, that one, it was that one was painful and really sad. And then the second one, that was a little harder for me to integrate because, yeah, you know, it's kind of it's another one, and it was farther along. And so that was really sad. And I passed this beautiful little sack perfectly intact and, again, so heartbreaking, but it was so beautiful to just see how it all I don't know. Something just felt really beautiful about it because the body was working, and I got to hold this little baby. It was very obvious that that they had stopped developing a few weeks prior, probably more than that. But yeah. And it was yeah. I don't know. It was very sad, but I used ceremony to integrate, and that helped me so much. And so that's a big part of just who I am today. It always had been, but after that, it was, like, an almost daily thing where I was trying to use ceremony to just integrate and ground and, you know, just I think just enjoy life because to me, it just feels like such a celebration ceremony. And, even with that, I use ceremony to celebrate that life and to celebrate how it changed me because it absolutely did. And and, again, every single pregnancy really prompted me to make a change in some way, and that one really showed me how my inner perfectionist just put me in such a mindset of lack. I'm usually very just grateful about everything and blah blah blah, but I got pregnant. And for both of those, I just really felt like I couldn't do enough. And I was eating enough, and I was, you know, getting sunshine and sleeping and yada yada, but I just kept feeling like I need to eat more. I need more whole foods. I need more this and more that. And, yeah, I just realized at the end of the day that my body was registering that I wasn't doing enough. And, that to me really felt like a reason that maybe my psyche would register that it wasn't time for pregnancy, because I just was yeah. I think I was just being really hard on myself for no reason. And, yeah, but I I use ceremony, and I integrated that. And it helped, like, immediately. It was day and night.
Speaker 2
So what does that mean when you say I use ceremony? What does that look like?
Speaker 3
Yeah. For me, it was, just kind of being really, like, symbolic and taking a night. And I wrote a letter to my be both of my babies, and my husband was involved. And, you know, we spent time in prayer and we had a fire and everything associated with my babies. I I threw in the fire just to symbolize, like, that smoke going up to them and God and yeah. So just kind of making stuff up. I mean, I also use certain ceremonies, that are more organized. But that one, I was like, I'm just gonna do whatever feels really good to help, like, close off this chapter of that experience and just go walk into the next one. So, yeah, that was a big relief for me. I got myself a charm bracelet with my baby's birth months. And, yeah, oh my goodness. It really it really helped to, just process. And I'm very much a person who feels my feelings through to completion, but that helped so much. And, yeah, you know, and and after that one, we took a little bit of a break for sure, trying to conceive. And, then the year goes up at some point, a little while later. And so we move into the year, and I had well, I guess I should say with this last pregnancy, when I realized that I put myself in this lack mentality, I just immediately changed my mind. Once I realized I was doing it, I was like, oh, that's nonsense, and I just stopped. So Love that. It was yeah. Oh my goodness. It was yeah. It was funny. But yeah. And I just felt really great, and the year it goes up, we move into there. Take some time still, and then we conceived again, and lost that one pretty early, but I felt so much more at peace. Like, I felt like I could integrate that a lot quicker. And, also and at this point, I'm definitely using ceremony pretty often, but I have realized that a couple more things. But one that I hadn't been including my husband in these ceremonies, and I really felt like it was important for him, to join me because that's, you know, also his essence. And, you know, I wasn't really checking in to see if he was in that state of abundance either. And I think he I mean, it really helped him to join me with a lot of these things. But yeah. And so lost that one. Oh, and then another thing that felt like it just came to me was that I still was I was still pretty resistant to loss. And in these years passing, I had kind of, like, these sudden losses on my homestead that were so unusual for me, and I saw how much I really resisted all of that. And with this last one, it just I really learned to surrender and also, like, realize that children are gifts, and that means they are given. And I don't have to do do do, like, I'm programmed to. And so I really let go of that on that last pregnancy, and so did my husband. So I realized that it was the first time we were both kind of on that same, path. So
Speaker 2
That's beautiful.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 2
It sounds like this baby that that came through really worked your ass before.
Speaker 3
You know? Yes. That's what
Speaker 2
they do, those high vibe babies.
Speaker 3
Yeah. I love that you said that. So true because just not too long ago, that's how it felt. I just was looking at my daughter, and I thought you so came for me. You know? It wasn't that I'm here to help you and blah blah blah. It was that you came to rock my world and just change me.
Speaker 2
Well and but but for her.
Speaker 3
Mhmm. Right. Yes.
Speaker 2
You know? I mean, it is for her. You can't separate
Speaker 3
the two. What is for you is
Speaker 2
for her. Right? But they I think they, yeah, they really work. They can. It's I mean, I guess it's just a perspective, but it seems like these babies can really work us before they are physically here.
Speaker 3
Yes. Yeah. And I love that. I mean, I really I felt that from childhood just that, okay. Life is this, like, it's this journey to prep for when I'm a mom. So I just really tried to take every lesson I could knowing that it would be for my babies later on. But, yeah, I definitely was you know, felt like I was going through all these changes and trials at the time. But, again, I mean, I'm really I'm always really grateful for that kind of thing. And so I'd really tried to stay in that mindset while I was going through it, just being grateful and knowing there was purpose behind it all. Yeah. But, yeah, I totally love that you just say that. That's how it feels.
Speaker 2
So at what point it sounds like this was really aligned in the same phase of your life where you're wrapping your head around regulated midwifery isn't for you, and you get pregnant with this baby who stays. And so at what point are you clear on a wild pregnancy, a free birth, like, the whole that that whole thing.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Right. Yeah. So that actually was something I decided pretty early into my midwifery school too. It was, like, the first year, and I just kind of again, I just assessed all the information, and I just I don't know. It just again, it just didn't feel like this at least the way, again, the system's doing it and whatever regulations, it just felt too restrictive for what I know I'd want and how I know I'd be because I would definitely say no to all the things. That's just kind of I don't know. My that's how I was my personality then too. And, and I'm just very confident in my choices, and I knew that that wasn't going to be something that was easy to do in the system. And I would just feel attacked and, you know, I think it's really easy to see those patterns play out, and I just decided, you know, I can just be that for myself and then some. And if I want some of the extra, you know, support, I'm sure I could find somebody who could do that for me if I felt that way. Like, if I wanted body work or just kind of the actual self care stuff that I think is really helpful. But so that happened really early on, and I just kinda knew it was a thing. I think, you know, you're in the birth world, and you know people are having babies without anybody there. And I think especially when you think about the world, because, of course, in the world, women are having babies at home with no one there all the time. It's just kind of this western idea that it's so managed, it feels like. But yeah. And then and then so I decided that, and I told my husband, and he was like, yeah. Cool. He's he's super supportive. And
Speaker 2
I mean, usually dudes that live off grid in yurts don't require their partners go to the hospital.
Speaker 3
Very true.
Speaker 2
There tends to be a bit of a consciousness track there. I've told I've told so many women I've done coaching with that live in yurts who were, like, nervous about their free birth. I'm like, look. I have a theory that's never been proven wrong that if you live in a yurt, you will have a successful free birth. You just will.
Speaker 3
Love that. That's awesome.
Speaker 2
I haven't yet heard of a yurt transfer.
Speaker 3
Oh, that's so funny. I love that. So it's such I really do feel like just that lifestyle. Yeah. It absolutely
Speaker 2
helped for sure. Of course. You're pooping in the woods. You're figuring out how to how to be without you know, you're totally, like, rewilding. Of course, there could be exceptions. Someone listening to this is like Mhmm. I transferred out of a ear. Okay. So I'm sure it exists. But I have this, yeah, I have this theory that so far, I haven't met anyone that's that's debunked my theory, but it makes sense because of the track of wildness and deprogramming and and all the stuff that comes with why you would choose that kind of lifestyle.
Speaker 3
Yeah. So true.
Speaker 2
So you knew you were gonna free birth in year one of medical midwifery school.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 2
That's interesting.
Speaker 3
I think I just felt like, oh, I wouldn't want any I just felt like I don't want any people at my birth. You know? And I don't know. That just felt being in it, it felt so I felt so confronted by that system, and I just knew that I wasn't gonna want it. And yeah. So I just decided that, and then I looked for any kind of free birth informations resource, and then I found you guys. And so that really was so inspiring to just all the, you know, years after, listening to the stories and just yeah. It was really beautiful. So I appreciated that a lot, that story medicine. And, yeah. So I just kept was chugging along and then going through those losses and all the things, and then I get pregnant, with this this baby, who's yeah. I ended up, you know, going the the whole pregnancy with, and I'm in the yurt. And, you know, I really had to walk the talk because I was trying to come out of this lack mindset, and then I'm in this not finished yurt. Mhmm. And still not finished, but, yeah, I really had to just be at peace with everything how it was. Life just is. I just am. I didn't have to do anything. And, you know, the lesson with that pregnancy was that I literally don't need anything outside of myself. It's just me and God and my baby. And, you know, even my husband at the end of the day, he's laughing like I didn't do anything. And so he was nice to have, but I didn't need him. Right. And so that was just a really amazing lesson. But, yeah, I get pregnant and join MMI about halfway through, which was just really cool. It was so awesome to just further integrate myself with that, that consciousness and just see a lot of other women doing this. And, yeah, that was it was really awesome to just go through the modules and feel so validated and a lot of the things that were just kind of hitting me throughout the years. Yeah. And so I go on, and I just have a really great pregnancy. I wasn't gonna let myself not. You know? Even when I was throwing up, I was like, look look at me go. I would yeah. I just was celebrating every part. I really used ceremony through that pregnancy too to just, ground every day to really let what was trying to come through for me come through, just connecting to my baby. It didn't that I didn't really feel fear, and I didn't feel the need to, like, analyze everything. I just felt that it's just so in my body. And it was really cool because, of course, that whole wild pregnancy prompts that so much. Like, you don't have the option for someone to tell you a, b, and c, and so you really have to go inward and and just fill that out for yourself and, just take everything lightly. I just decided that I can change my mind whenever I want. But right now, this feels right and nothing feels wrong, and I am really enjoying it. And, yeah, it was honestly just really peaceful and, lovely. Well, this
Speaker 2
whole this whole, you know, frame that you're talking about of shifting out of doing or the the belief that you need to do and and really just allowing, to me, is the, like, core gift of a wild pregnancy. And not everyone will get there. You know? And and there's not just disclaimer. There's no one right way to do this. Do whatever you want. Move all that. But, you know, some people will have their wild pregnancy and still, like, do fundal height and weigh themselves every day and keep a food journal and basically mimic medical midwifery, but feel, you know, hashtag empowered by doing the medical assessment themselves, which I think Mhmm. Is cool if that's what you're into. I think that that's still shifting your needle, you know, moving your needle towards, let's say, self responsibility. But I also remember in that first pregnancy having this epiphany that there was nothing I needed to do. And I think it was I think it was, like, I default bought prenatal vitamins or something
Speaker 3
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
And then realized I didn't really want them or, like, feel called to take them or care about them at all. And it was just that simple thing of, like, you're supposed to. And and also when you're pregnant, especially for the first time, it's, like, fun to do things because it's validating the phase you're in. It's fun to what? You know, have a registry or make a nursery. I don't know if people do that, you know, or take the vitamins or, like, you know, to go to the doctor to get measured. It's like there's a it's like this old it's actually really sad and pathetic because that is our way of, like, celebrating or not celebrating, but acknowledging this sacred phase we're in, this sacred season we're in. And especially as a first time mom, you know, we all know the culture that we live in and that the performance of pregnancy is that you do do do do do do do do do. Right? Even down to, like, the maternity photos and the the the everything. Mhmm. Everything. Everything. All the stuff you buy, all the stuff you set up. And I'm not saying anything is wrong with that, but it's a pretty, like, outward facing it's almost performative. Right? I guess you could say anything's performative if it's, like, not deeply authentically for you.
Speaker 3
Right? Yeah.
Speaker 2
Anyway, so so so just this idea, and I really felt that too in in my first pregnancy of, like, woah. What epic freedom? Like, real liberation and security and confidence was embedded in realizing and then practicing that there was nothing I needed to do. And that by simply continuing to stay alive was it. And my that it was just happening just like my heartbeats and just like my liver cleans and just like my brain does all of its epic stuff, this baby is growing. And that is a really, really big consciousness shift towards ourselves, you know, and towards nature and towards what is versus this busyness and this outwardness. And, of course, you carry that into your birth. And even perhaps more importantly, you carry that into motherhood.
Speaker 3
Mhmm. Yes. Absolutely. And that's what really it all felt like it came down to was this is just changing me to become a mother and to really practice that. That. Like, I can't let go of those lessons, just like you're saying. You just yeah. You don't have to do, and in a way, yeah, I felt like and I totally did some of the, like, oh, where's my baby's butt and head? You know, feeling my belly and, doing that kind of thing. And I feel like, yeah, maybe that's a fun tool for women when they're learning to come back, you know, and, like, re you know, just, like, feel what embodiment feels like and explore. But for sure, yeah, I even did some things just for the fun of it, like hearing the heartbeat. You know? And none of it was in this, yeah, in a sense of feeling like I needed to measure or check or anything, but it was just so, yeah, so amazing to just feel my baby, hear my baby's heartbeat.
Speaker 2
Of course. And and we talk so much about that in MMI, like the difference of assessment versus exploration. And you can do the exact same thing, but with a totally different, lens on it. You know? And, like, palpating I mean, of course, your own belly or another woman's womb in a sense of curiosity and playfulness and exploration is so different than assessment and, you know
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. Trying to get some false sense of security, for sure. And so, yeah, there's just yeah. It can be so playful and so fun if we just let it. You know? And, again, that was for sure the lessons from my bosses was just to have fun with it and be light, and it's it's doing its thing. You know? I don't have to tell myself to breathe or to, like you said, like, live function and Yeah. It's just working. And so, yeah, the pregnancy, you know, just super simple, really lovely. I was prepping for all the variations of normal, once the birth came, which totally didn't happen. It was actually very just, like, straightforward and whatever. But, yeah, the only kind of birth prep I did was to watch primates give birth because that's some advice from sister Morningstar, which was awesome. I love to watch this birth. And I have animals, and so I've seen what that looks like, but they're not wild. And so it was so fun to see these creatures just giving birth with no story, you know, no stories that we make up in our heads, and they just, you know, pop a baby out and they're on their way. And, yeah, I really resonated with that really deeply.
Speaker 2
And And, like, how not gentle they will be with their young, I also think is, like, so interesting and fun. Like, the the there's an elephant one. Maybe you've seen it of the elephant has the baby, and then the baby is transitioning, you know, I guess we could say slowly. Of course, totally normal. And the mama elephant is like just like pounds on this baby, and it's fine for them. I mean, I would not pound on a human baby, obviously, but it it like, she's pretty rough and aggressive with this baby, but she's resuscitating it. And then she and then the baby comes around. And, anyway, it's just I love it because we've just separated ourselves so much from it. But when when females feel, they're not in their forebrain, you know, they're in their animal brain, what they do is really different than, again, the kind of performative, forebrain behavior.
Speaker 3
Yes. Absolutely. And I, yeah, I love that so much. I really love the idea of just being so wild and, yeah, I really so much inspiration I've gained from animals and just watching nature and just kind of trying to find the wisdom and how they function. And, for sure, I'd I'll it's hilarious how, you know, it's not prim and proper out there, and No. We don't have to be. Yeah. So then towards the end of
Speaker 2
my pregnancy you were pretty chill and confident, and it just sounds like you didn't have, like, a lot of headiness to work out in this pregnancy. Is that true?
Speaker 3
Yes. That's true. Yeah. Uh-huh. I felt like I went through and, again, even in my losses, I didn't really go through doubt, but I just felt like, you know, it prompted me to think about a lot. And, of course, I'd been studying midwifery for a while, so I had so much time to just play with the different routes and possibilities and, of course, you know, having to find out what your relationship is to death. That's and that was so that's that's something that I'm really resistant to, I think, just kind of growing up. But, I really had to just play with that. And it's also not the worst case scenario necessarily when, like, for me, I'm very spiritual, and I don't feel that's the end. And so, you know, I think just it just didn't feel like something I had to think about, and I didn't want to stress about a reality that didn't happen yet. Like, I didn't I wasn't going to stress.
Speaker 2
Define that's just defining anxiety.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And that for sure like, I sometimes I feel like that had been my default growing up, but I really tried to tackle these things before I got pregnant, as much as I could. And then even then, there was stuff to hash out when I did get pregnant. But but at least in that sense of not fixating on a future that could never come, I, you know, I just didn't do that. I didn't wanna ruin my present moment for that. And even if something happened, I mean, what can you do except just handle it in the best way you can? So I just especially, again, being in birth a little bit and seeing kind of how they resolve emergencies. It's not rocket science. And if you are comfortable going to the hospital and calling it at some point, just call it at some point. You know? That even just the emergency scenarios felt like really, like, they didn't have to be complicated decisions. So I just got clear about what my just what I knew I could be at peace with if it came down to it. My husband, again, he's super supportive and, very he's not afraid to live. You know? And that means not afraid to die and kind of that, relationship, but he definitely didn't project anything onto me. And I knew he wouldn't when birth came, and so he was a really awesome presence for that reason. He's he's just super, like, grounded and quiet. And And
Speaker 2
was it just the two of
Speaker 3
you? Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. My mom did come on to the property, at some point towards the end of my pregnancy, but it's a big property, and so she just kind of stayed in her trailer. Mostly just if I felt like we needed that postpartum support. And yeah. You know? So that's just us.
Speaker 2
What about your year it's not done?
Speaker 3
Yeah. Everything. Really? What what's the deal? We don't have a bathroom in there. We barely have our little, like, corner of a room. We just a few weeks prior, we got a fire a wood stove in there Yeah. Because we're approaching winter. Thankfully, it was a warm winter, so we also could kind of push it off.
Speaker 2
And you don't have utilities?
Speaker 3
No. So we have a little bit
Speaker 2
Mhmm. What about water?
Speaker 3
So we do have water. That was something, that we were able to get in beforehand. And it's on a well, and it's on a a storage tank. And then we have a little solar setup. It's like Because of our solar.
Speaker 2
Oh, got it.
Speaker 3
Oh, yeah. Yeah. So yeah. Not not fancy stuff, but just barely enough to, like, facilitate some of these things. Yeah. So it just felt
Speaker 2
Do you have Wi Fi there? Like, I've seen you in your yurt on the calls, or are you on data?
Speaker 3
Data.
Speaker 2
Gotcha. Okay.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Which is why I came here. It's like a camera scanner.
Speaker 2
So it's just like the yurt is up, floors are in, there's water. Can you get water into your yurt?
Speaker 0
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. That's nice.
Speaker 3
Like, do
Speaker 2
you have a sink?
Speaker 3
Yes. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Okay. You're getting there.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. We got some stuff. Yeah. So that even that, it's like, oh, we have just barely what we need, and it's perfect. You know? It's I can drink water. And even when we didn't, I just went outside and got it from the freeze faucet.
Speaker 2
And Yeah.
Speaker 3
So it was just funny. But, yeah. So it's really there's not a lot of systems, but I have a bed and a couch and a chair and, you know, things to make it cozy. Just enough to give birth, I guess. But
Speaker 2
And what is your bathroom situation?
Speaker 3
We have a separate outdoor bathroom. Okay. Because we actually got married on this property, and we built those for that. And yeah. So just it wasn't inside, but we still have access to some stuff. But I definitely sometimes don't wanna use that stuff. I'll just pee outside or whatever. Yeah. But it's really yeah. It's an awesome opportunity to just be in touch with nature. At some point towards the end to the birth, I just really felt like I was living in a Yoni too because, like, this pelvic wall and this opening at the top of
Speaker 2
the Yeah. Yeah. With the lattice. And
Speaker 3
That's funny. Yeah. So I was like, I just feel like I'm in my own little womb and whatever.
Speaker 2
So it it wasn't, what's the right word? Like, it didn't feel too much like you were roughing it?
Speaker 3
No. And we had a lot of these things were not in there necessarily right away. Like, we spent a whole winter without a lot of without any running water, any fire and stuff. And so, I felt just with these little additions, like, I was in luxury. Totally. Yeah. But still knowing for sure, I'm like, oh, this is definitely not set up, you know, like a like a house or anything. Just we just have just barely what we need, which was kind of my intention with living out there. I wanted that humble experience, and so it's been really fun. But yeah. And then the birth came or or birth was approaching, and we went to the store one day. And I just felt like my energy was so diffuse, and I could feel everyone's everything, and it was way too overwhelming.
Speaker 2
Get me back to the Yoni.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. I did. I I did not leave my property after that until, like, more than forty days after. I was just, like, in it. So, yeah, we went back, and then just days passed. I canceled my holiday plans because I just I wanted to really honor whatever little thing my body was telling me to do. And so it's, like, done done with all my plans. I'm just gonna stay home until it feels right to not be home. Yeah. And then my husband and I, I had another ceremony just saying bye to my maidenhood. And then my husband and I had this night where we were just out loud welcoming our daughter, not to try to start labor. We just were talking out loud. But, yeah, then I woke up the next day, and my water's released in bed. I just sat up. Yeah. And they just came, and I was so excited. And I was laughing, and I was like, oh my gosh. My husband's name is Michael. I was like, look at this. And then he's just watching me just, like, kind of drip, and and all of a sudden, the whole thing just released. So that was fun because part of me was like, I wonder if I'm just peeing, like, sometimes happens. But then right when I said that, the whole thing just came out, and I was like, okay. I'm not. But I had prepped for the possibility of a three day labor, so I didn't want to get ahead of myself. And I have I have been at birth at a birth where the the water broke, and and baby didn't come for seven days. And so Mhmm. I was like, that could happen, because I didn't have any sensations that felt like anything. I did have practice waves starting from, like, twenty two weeks, so I just didn't feel anything kind of more intense than that. And I just it's like I'm staying home. I'm just gonna relax and do my thing. You know, it was very I like to joke that it was super National Geographic in there because for sure, I just I you know, it was just in my little scarf around my waist just doing my thing. Yeah. And then nothing happened. So then the next day, we just were taking it easy again, and nothing really was going on. I was using those practice waves, like and I had been doing this, but just using them as practice to go within. So I was just doing that and praying and just getting ready for three days. And so I was like, let's watch a movie. So around it was just lunchtime. We started a movie, and then around three o'clock hits, and I just needed to concentrate. And so I couldn't keep watching this movie, and I just was doing my thing. I was very silent. I was on my little birth ball just sitting there. I thought I was gonna, like, walk around, you know, and just be so exploring my space, but I just was on my ball and I wasn't moving. And, yeah. And, actually, that was amazing because the it wasn't painful. I did not have a painful birth. I had this interesting just range of sensations. There, I for sure felt the expansion, which just felt intense when I felt it. And then I felt, some of them were pleasurable. Some of them were completely silent where I just felt the wave, but I didn't feel anything else. Mhmm. So that was so interesting. And I yeah. So and I wanted to be open to whatever birth had to offer me, and so I kinda laughed because I got a little bit of everything. Mhmm. And yeah. And so at some point, I'm going through that just, like, intense expansion, and I realized that I'm still kind of resisting where I'm at in labor because I was committed to the three days. And so I just had to kind of reground and just say, you know, I am where I am and just let it let it happen. Maybe you're further. And and yeah. And then so I actually was going through that for just about two hours. And when I made that shift in my mind, I immediately started just grunting, and and all the intensity went away. I just felt waves. Just I could visualize my whole wound just waves, and my baby moving downward. Yeah. And so that was it was so satisfying. It was a really awesome feeling. And I just sat there for ten minutes grunting, and then all of a sudden, I just had this knowing I need to get onto my bed, and just shift already. And so my husband, he made me this pile of pillows, and I just kind of leaned on it. I stopped grunting completely, and all of a sudden, I just start doing this very deep breathing, and it was slow. And, yeah, it was just it's so not there it's just very normal and straightforward. And, I'm doing that for ten minutes, and I can just start to feel my baby's head crown. And that stretch was so intimidating. It didn't hurt, but I could totally understand, like, why this is such a a stressor for women, you know, feeling like they're gonna tear. And and something you said actually popped into my head on a podcast episode. You're like, you won't care if you tear. You won't notice, and it's okay if you do. And so I just kind of said that to myself, and, and she was actually I felt like she was being so gentle with me because she would just kind of, like, ebb and flow and go back and forth. And then at some point, she kind of made a little more progress, and I just relaxed completely, and she shot out. And it was so simple that way, and she was so awake and, vital. Her cord was pretty much white, and it was short. And my husband just scooch her through my legs to me because she just fell on the bed. Yeah. And it was really great. I held her as much as I could. Time felt so strange, but I felt so energized. I was so amazed by that, feeling postpartum, and that lasted three days. And I had this whole amazing forty days because I really committed to keeping that birth energy going for the whole time and just integrating and resting, but I felt so energized. I did not feel I felt the invitations to assess, like, how much are you building right now? What's the placenta when is the placenta gonna come? I didn't worry about it, but I I felt those little pings in my head just, giving me the opportunity to think. You know? And so I just said, well, actually, even out loud, I said, Michael, what's how's, my blood look? He's like, great. And I was like, okay. And I just took that as the opportunity to, like, I'm not gonna think about it. I'm not gonna waste time. I feel great, and that's all that matters to me. And my baby's doing great. And so, yeah. And then later on, the the birth of the placenta is amazing too. I thought that at some point, I I just felt like I need to finish birth. And I tried to cough and, like, pull a little bit, but I realized and I know that works for a lot of women, but for me, it was like, oh, that doesn't feel like what I need to do right now. And so I just got back into my birth mindset, and I told I told my placenta out loud, very grateful for you. My baby's here, and she is breathing, and she is so strong, and the cord's white, and your job is done. And just taking that time to honor my placenta. And then immediately, that same, like, reflex that birthed my daughter started pushing my placenta out, and, it came out halfway. And I got to just kind of feel it, and it was so glorious. And, and and then it just came out the rest of the way. So that was amazing. We had a cord burning ceremony after a few hours. And and at this point, I invited my mom in and, my dad too because he actually had come to the property, just to hang out with my mom. But we, yeah, we let them come in. There was just all this ceremony around that, which is really nice. And, they fed us and cleaned up and all the things. So sweet. Yeah. It was really beautiful. And then again, that that forty days, that postpartum, I felt so electric for the first days. I didn't sleep, and it wasn't because of my baby. It was because I was just, like
Speaker 0
Oh, yeah.
Speaker 3
Enamored watching her sleep, and I couldn't I couldn't rest. But I didn't feel like I needed to. And so, yeah, so that three days goes by, and then I really felt like the whole forty days, like, I was coming down from the clouds, you know, kind of that saying that you go and you do your work up there and you grab your baby from the stars and pull them down, and it really felt that way. And at some point, it was around day seven, I really felt this animal, like, this animalistic feeling. And I was going through these scenarios, and I just remember feeling like I could bite somebody if they got me and my baby right now. It was so interesting to experience. Oh, nothing triggered it, but I almost felt like it was still my energy being so diffuse and feeling things that weren't serving me anymore and just kind of the reality of the world. Mhmm. And yeah. So, yeah, it was nothing in particular happened, but I felt like, oh, I would totally bite somebody. And, still feeling like I was in that primal brain, but it was funny because then I had this thought that, oh, in my training, this would be a trigger for me to think that someone had anxiety, postpartum anxiety. Oh. And so but then, again, I really am inspired by my animals, and I was thinking about this, basically feral pig I have. Her name is Vanka, and she is kind of arthritic, but she will come at you if if her baby's squealing and you're right there. And so I really related to that, and I I just thought this is not a bad thing I'm experiencing. I'm experiencing this killer mama bear instinct, and I made a commitment in that moment that I would honor that feeling going forward. Like, this is just my brain turning on
Speaker 4
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
In this new way, and I'm gonna honor it right now. And if I feel this ever in the real world, I'm going to act on it, however that looks. Mhmm. And it immediately just quieted down. And I just trues the rest of the way postpartum really at peace, and it was just really amazing to feel all the the wildness of the whole whole process.
Speaker 2
What's really shocking and depressing is how many women will never feel that. Yeah. I guess.
Speaker 4
That's Mhmm.
Speaker 2
I mean but if you're drugged and surgically removed and separated and don't nurse and have a totally sabotage postpartum and, you know, the whole thing, it's not as likely that those protective instincts will turn on at all or even a little bit. You know, a lot of women that birth in the system will report that they, you know, very, very, are very upset by the fact that they'll look at their baby and feel nothing.
Speaker 0
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
You know, which is so intense and so sad and such a a clear, you know, nod to the destruction, to the intended fracture, you know, of industrial birth. And then you see women that birth, let's say in the wild, really just in their in their year in their half done yurts, you know, allowing allowing just life to happen without all the stuff and and this and this comes through very commonly. And and in many ways, I would say, I know many women who birthing this way and connecting to this has healed their anxiety.
Speaker 3
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
Not given them more. You know? Right. And it's not a it's not a foolproof recipe. Of course, you know, I don't ever mean to imply that it's gonna happen to everybody, but there is a Right. There is a understandable formula to enacting and being as present and allowing that the confidence and and intactness that you emerged with will turn on more parts of your instinct. That just makes sense.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I totally agree. And I really also I mean, you use the word intend that the system intends for that fracture. And, yeah, that's that was a big thing I walked away with is that, this is what women are not being allowed to experience, and it really allowed me to empathize so much more in that way. And it kind of outrages me now in a way that it didn't before, because just knowing what is possible even for myself and, knowing that that means it's possible for so many women. For and so
Speaker 2
For all for all pregnant women. I mean Yeah. Because it's our animal. It's our instinct. It is a part of it. And the truth is most women won't even know what they're missing, you know, which is really sad and really depressing. And then there's, like, another layer of women who, you you know, hear conversations like this and will feel very, offended and very defensive about Mhmm. Their industrial birth experience. And then you keep going, and there's another layer of women who will feel, awareness that they lost it. You know? And then and then that just keeps moving up into, the willingness to have it. You know?
Speaker 3
Yeah. Mhmm. Absolutely. Yeah. And, you know, it's my main thing is that, like, again, at least now is I'm not trying to I love to share just because I want people to know it's possible, but definitely not critiquing women. It's critiquing a system, you know, and a system where there's plenty of evidence that this stuff is not necessary and comes from almost no foundation. And so I know. It's sadistic. Yeah. Absolutely. But yeah. So it was just so beautiful, and I was so grateful for all the, stories, you know, that you guys have shared through FBS because, yeah, it just kind of opens this world of experience, and they're all so beautiful, and such a mirror who we are at the time. And just honoring that part of us, you know, whoever it was when that birth happened and that birth, and they're all gonna be so different. And so, it was, yeah, it was so beautiful to go through it. And, man, yeah, it's been so peaceful, and I really I was so glad that, yeah, I just honored myself from the first time because you always hear too, like, oh, maybe for your second, but not your first or this or that. And I just thought I can't live with myself if I don't honor myself from the start and what I'm feeling instinctually that I should do. And so
Speaker 2
like, what would we say to our daughters about losing their virginity? Like, yeah. Yeah. Like, betray yourself the first time. Everyone everyone doesn't consent to the first time. Everyone, you know, has sex with someone they don't really want to the first time. But by your third time, you should really want it. Like, what the fuck kind of advice would that be? It's the same thing.
Speaker 3
Such a good yeah.
Speaker 2
Absolutely. Sex and birth, I mean, are are are very similar parallels, you know, and and the willingness to accept sexual assault in both arenas, you know, are are is commonplace, obviously. Yeah. Of course, women say that all the time, maybe for my second baby. Like, oh my god. But that's not really I mean, that there's more to it than what they could what the how do I say this? There's more to it than what they are consciously articulating. You know? Mhmm. Because they're not thinking I'll get abused and traumatized and risk everything for this first one
Speaker 3
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
Which is ultimately usually what winds up happening.
Speaker 3
Yeah. And I think they're just really looking for the ceremony. You know? The ceremony, the celebrations like you mentioned earlier, just throughout, you know, that, oh, when I go and get checked, it's gonna it's not gonna be something that stresses me out and makes me Well
Speaker 2
and their husbands aren't comfortable. They aren't confident. I mean, your your story, like, the through line of your story is that you have a strong sense of self. Right? And so, unfortunately, most people don't. It's something I think a lot about because, you know, I I'm very, like, hated or at least the perceived projection of me is very hated, and there's lots of, like, angles of of why we could unpack why. But one of them is I think that my sense of self is incredibly, triggering to people who don't have that. You know? Because, really, people with strong senses of self don't really care what other people are up to. You know?
Speaker 3
Yeah. It's kind
Speaker 2
of there's just kind of an inhale. Like, when you're, like, pretty secure and pretty confident, you you're not really spending a bunch of time, like, hating people and making up stuff. But, anyway so the through line that I hear one of the through lines is that you have an inherent and earned sense of self that you've worked really hard on pre motherhood, and so that carries through, obviously, as it would. And I think when you hear when we hear women, you know, talking about making these concessions, what I hear and I mean this very compassionately. It's not it's not like anything shitty, but what I hear is there's lacking sense of self, and maybe they will hopefully find it. And, unfortunately, a lot of women will use a negative birth experience for that transmutation or, you know, or whatever. And that's just where people are at. I mean Right. There's lots of ways Yep. To do this.
Speaker 3
Mhmm. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Well, I'm proud of you.
Speaker 3
And, you know, thank you so much, and thank you for all the kind things you said. I do really feel like I worked really hard to try to get to this, like, place in my life, and that's the point of life. Like, I think all of us start off not really or at some points in life not having that strong sense of self, but that's that's the purpose. You know? It's just finding it. And so I think it's so okay for everyone to just be where they're at and and own it and then just keep going and, walking on their journey. And so yeah.
Speaker 2
So we just need to choose Mhmm. Yourself in whatever messy, insecure, perfectionist, anxious, fucked up state it's in in order to move through the swamp to get to, you know, a cleaner river or whatever.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 2
And I think a lot of people are so in there. You know, they're so disembodied. They're so, like, fundamentally insecure, and they're in such survival mode, meaning, like, in such a threatened state that that at least at least it seems like they don't know how to even begin, you know, cleaning up the swamp. Like, of course, there's ways to do it always. But you have to be willing to meet yourself where you're at, and I think a lot of people would rather not. Right.
Speaker 3
Yeah. And you know what even Exactly. It kind of comes down to even making decisions that might not please everybody. Right? And so even just confronting that part of ourselves, which was, again, something I gained so much wisdom from from the podcast and hearing your experiences and Yos was, like, you have to be willing to say no and to draw the line and to, you know, that do that for yourself and for your family, especially around birth. And there's a way to do it lovingly. You know? And Sure. Absolutely. And so So many women that I
Speaker 2
work with will be like it's clear that they're still, like, so rooted in making their life's decisions based off of approval. And I'll always say something along the lines of, like, it's guaranteed there's someone out there that already doesn't like you. Like, because, you know, so many women will be like you know, but, like, if I do this, if if I step into this work, if I free birth, if I do what's really in my heart, like people aren't gonna like me as if everyone likes you already. Like, what are you what delusion are you living in that you've played it so perfectly that everyone in your life thinks super highly of you because you're what? Does it that's that's insane. That's such a silly, silly, silly made up lie to justify disembodiment. You know? Like, just assume. Mhmm. There's already people that don't like you.
Speaker 3
Absolutely. Ugh. And even just that yeah. That word embodiment. Absolutely. And it just it's gonna come I don't know. We're gonna feel how we're embodied or disembodied, and I really feel that birth mirrors that back to you too. I know that when I, when Camille was crowning, I felt completely embodied. I felt like I could visualize every single part of my body and just have a piece about it. And and, again, if we're taking those lessons and and not letting it end with birth and just doing it every single day, trying to be embodied and, you know, all the things and love ourselves and know, yeah, we're not gonna be totally accepted. It's so freeing. It is it's all about freedom. Yeah. And it's just the ultimate love that you can give yourself.
Speaker 2
Yeah. And then your children.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. All the things that they are not gonna have to like, stories that they won't have to undo if we just do like, work so hard in our lifetimes to undo it.
Speaker 2
Well, thank you so much. How can women find you online if they wanna follow your journey?
Speaker 3
So I am on Instagram at curandera kiana, and curandera kiana at g mail dot com because I do support women right now virtually, but through ceremony, through processing, birth trauma, and just kind of birth education and just throughout and women's wellness, you know, just kind of the whole spectrum or anything I can do. But yeah. So that's just kind of where I'm at right now.
Speaker 2
Beautiful. We'll drop it in the show notes too.
Speaker 3
Thank you. Thank you so much for having me on. It's yeah. You guys have been so inspiring to me.
Speaker 2
Yeah. You're so welcome. Thank you for your time. I hope you enjoyed the show today. You can support this podcast by donating to it through the link in the show notes below and, of course, leaving an awesome review on whatever platform you listen on. The more reviews, the more visibility the show gets, so let's spread the good word of Sovereign Birth. Don't forget, you can watch our podcast interviews on YouTube and see the women as they tell their birth and power stories, and you'll also find our viral free birth collection of epic raw birth videos on our YouTube. Make sure you're subscribed to our channel. We've always got a lot going on at Free Birth Society, and you can find out all about it at free birth society dot com, at free birth society on Instagram, and opt in to my newsletter below. We offer courses on free birth, authentic midwifery, the blood mysteries, as well as one on one coaching, in person retreats, and of course our annual women's gathering, the Matriarch Rising Festival. Our exclusive private vetted membership, The Lighthouse, is definitely something to check out if you're looking for a community of wise sisters to get guidance from and to meet in real life. Together, we rise sisters. We must speak our stories, fully claim our lives, and support one another. This is the living revolution, and I am so grateful to be in it with all of you. I'll leave you with our gorgeous Free Birth Society theme song, Wild Woman by Aruba Red.
Speaker 4
I honor you for the wisdom you held, the ancient traditions of plant medicine
Speaker 3
and womb
Speaker 4
magic. Magic. I feel the spirit of the ancestors separation of our young to be forced upon me. I will not allow the separation of our young to be forced upon me. My sisters will no longer birth in captivity. The picket line redefined from burning our wild women to paralyzing us and drugging our babes. Strapped down in a clinical white bed, drying up the milk from our breasts, keep your needles. My family will never again be doomed to chase those dragons all your poison. We reject your fear. We choose love. Everything with intention, death, ascension. I will fly and bring her back to the star.
