10: Double the Responsibility: Birthing Twins in Sovereignty

Season #9 Episode #10 October 03, 2025

What happens when you choose a normal birth with twins?

In this episode, I speak with Nicole, a mother from South Africa now living in the U.S., who chose sovereignty in one of the most medicalized and “high-risk” experiences imaginable: an identical twin pregnancy. From the very beginning, she was met with fear-based narratives—warnings of stillbirth, premature labor, and twin-to-twin transfusion syndrome. But after enduring traumatic experiences in hospitals and with midwives, Nicole knew she would not birth her twins within the system.

Instead, she underwent a profound process of deconditioning and committed to trusting her body. With the steady support of her husband, a Radical Birth Keeper graduate, and a community of women walking this same path, Nicole carried her twins to 40 weeks and welcomed them at home, in embodied sovereignty.

Nicole shares the raw reality of holding responsibility for twins outside the system: the constant conversations about risk, the deep conviction it took to turn away completely, and the profound freedom of reclaiming birth on her own terms.

Inside this episode:

What Nicole witnessed in the hospital that made her vow never to return
How she carried her twins to full term, trusting her body’s wisdom
The support she found in a community of sovereign mothers
What labor with twins looked like at home
The double standard of blame when outcomes differ at home versus in the hospital
The freedom and healing that come with birthing twins in sovereignty

Timestamps:

[00:00] Introduction

[02:59] Two miscarriages and lack of support and answers from the medical system

[07:05] Receiving news of a third unviable pregnancy and deciding not to take the pill

[09:02] Discovering that the medical system was wrong about her third pregnancy, and that her baby was alive and healthy in her womb

[11:19] Birthing her first son in a birthing center with a midwife, forced interventions, a fourth degree tear, and newborn separation

[21:36] Postpartum hospital trauma, overreactions and threats

[25:15] Another miscarriage and humiliating hospital treatment

[32:13] Finding out she was pregnant with twins, midwife refusing to provide care, and choosing freebirth

[1:00:00] Freebirthing her twins at home with her husband and birth attendant present

If you want to connect more with Nicole, follow her on Instagram.

Find more from Emilee on Instagram, YouTube and the Free Birth Society website.

Disclaimer: Free Birth Society, LLC of North Carolina shares personal and educational stories and experiences related to freebirth and holistic care. This content is not medical advice, and we are not a licensed midwifery practice. Testimonials reflect individual experiences; results may vary. For services or scheduling, contact [email protected]. See full disclaimer at freebirthsociety.com/youtubeterms.

Episode Transcript

00;00;00;05 - 00;00;23;06
Unknown
A day postpartum with my son. We saw his breathing thought to go really fast. We had called the midwife and she said, go to the hospital. That was just enough. When we wanted to transfer him, the nurse was like, if you leave, your baby is going to die. The hospital system is based on liability. There's so much to this that has nothing to do with you and your baby.

00;00;23;07 - 00;00;45;21
Unknown
We got pregnant again. That's when we found out we had twins. When we called to say that we have twins with the midwives, they were like, we can't see you because you have twins. We find underground midwives or ones with certain certifications. After I had met them, I was like, okay, that's it. We are now going all in with the free birth route.

00;00;45;22 - 00;01;15;02
Unknown
Obviously the medical care is an epic cult, but midwives aren't exempt from that. They're totally a part of it by women. Before we dive in. Today I need to name something important. This episode, along with all episodes that you will hear until our winter break in mid-December, was recorded before my birth prior to mid-August. Since then, our family has walked through the unimaginable.

00;01;15;04 - 00;01;51;14
Unknown
Our son was stillborn and we are in deep mourning as the shows air, you'll hear and see me pregnant, which now feels incredibly painful and weird. Given that you are holding the sacred knowledge of what came after. So please forgive the dissonance. These stories still deserve to be shared and heard. We welcome your prayers, your loving thoughts, and your support as we navigate this spiral of such deep grief.

00;01;51;16 - 00;02;19;13
Unknown
I hope you find resonance and nourishment in this conversation today. Thank you. Women, if you are ready to take full responsibility for your birth and you're looking for a clear, comprehensive, step by step guide to doing it outside the system. This is it. The Complete Guide to Free Birth is our flagship best selling course, and it has helped thousands of women and families around the world prepare for sovereign, undisturbed berths at home on their own terms.

00;02;19;17 - 00;02;43;15
Unknown
This is the integration of theory and lived wisdom designed to prepare your body, your psyche, your partner, and your space for a truly powerful birth. We cover everything from physiology to wild pregnancy, how to rethink complications, what to do postpartum, and everything in between. You don't need to become a midwife. You don't need to be licensed. You just need to be ready to remember what you already know.

00;02;43;17 - 00;02;52;15
Unknown
And this course will walk you through every step. If you're feeling the call, trust it. Go to Freebirds.

00;02;52;18 - 00;03;21;13
Unknown
To learn more and register today. Your birth your way in your power. Welcome to Free Births. I'm Emilee Saldaya, and this is where we break the spell of medicalized birth. Remember what's been forgotten and rise together into our birthright to live birth and mother as sovereign women. All right. Hi. Nicole. From South Africa. Okay, Emilee, thanks for having me living in Asheville.

00;03;21;20 - 00;03;44;06
Unknown
Yep. From far away. Okay, so you've got a fun story. You've got seven month old little twins that you birthed with an K grad. That's so fun. Yeah. It's crazy. So at the beginning, what is your first birth like? Who are you? How do you relate to the medical model? I'm assuming your first birth is also in this country.

00;03;44;06 - 00;04;02;29
Unknown
So that's that's a trip to just birth in a different country. So yeah. How is how is all of that? Yeah. So yeah. From South Africa, I came over to America as an old pair, and I grew up in a family where we were all six years apart, having an assistant and a younger brother. And so we weren't really close.

00;04;03;00 - 00;04;25;09
Unknown
And I always wanted, like, a big family, like a close, close family. So I really wanted kids. And then being an old pair, I just like I just loved kids, like, I just, I always knew I wanted a big family. And so when I met my husband, literally the first thing I like had Austin was like, do you want a family?

00;04;25;10 - 00;04;43;09
Unknown
And he was kind of like, well, you know, he was on the fence. He had some trauma from his childhood, so he kind of, you know, had some things. And he was he was like, yeah, I mean, if I found the right person, I want kids. And I was like, I want someone who's like, I want kids. But I fell in love with him.

00;04;43;09 - 00;04;58;06
Unknown
And he was like, yeah, I don't want to have kids with you. I saw him with the families and Annie Gore and saw him with the kids, and I was just like, oh, he's gonna be a great dad. Super excited. So we have met. We got engaged six months later, and then a year on the day that we met, we got we got married.

00;04;58;07 - 00;05;18;14
Unknown
Oh yeah, it was Elizabeth was it was like when I met him, I was like, this is, this is my person. And so, yeah, forward to when we were like, do we want to have a kid? I kind of, you know, if I look back at like, what is my relationship with the medical system? Like I was always like against like I don't care to go to a doctor.

00;05;18;16 - 00;05;34;23
Unknown
I don't really care about the flu vaccine. Like, when I went to university here, I had to get like all the shots or had to show proof. I had all the shots and I didn't have it because growing up, like my mom didn't keep, she didn't give it to me to go put that. So I was like, okay, I'll just go get them all again.

00;05;34;25 - 00;06;01;09
Unknown
Like, no problem, just go give me all the things. And then I'm not gonna lie, there was another time after that, I forget what it was all I needed proof again. And I didn't have it. And I went and just got more to go. I know it's dang. I look back and like, But yeah. Anyway, so when I first got pregnant, our very first one, I had my period, my bleed, it was.

00;06;01;11 - 00;06;21;24
Unknown
But I was like, so seems a little off and I don't know what brought me to it. But as I let me test it, because we were we weren't trying, but we weren't not trying. So I tested and I was pregnant and I was like, excited. It was it was like a weird feeling. It's like, I'm so excited, but I have I'm going to tell him, but I'm going to be like, but don't get too excited because I'm bleeding and I don't know what's going on.

00;06;21;26 - 00;06;41;21
Unknown
So it kind of was like I wanted to tell him and did like a whole little surprise thing, but then it was like, but it could not be a thing. So at the time, I don't regularly go to like O.B. appointments or anything like that, but at the time I was like, okay, we got to go find someone, found an OB that would take me, went and like explain the situation.

00;06;41;23 - 00;07;04;02
Unknown
We did a really ultrasound and there was a very small like, like top beat, but they were like, doesn't it's the timing doesn't seem right. It seems very small. But let's test come back in a few days and we'll, we'll have another ultrasound to see. And then that ultrasound was like there's no heartbeat unfortunately. You know, it's it's not going to happen.

00;07;04;02 - 00;07;20;24
Unknown
And so they gave me a pill and I was just like, go home and take this. And I was like, why does this happen? And I was like, you know, it was just sometimes it just happens. It's just, you know, part of the process. And I didn't really like that answer. I was just like, oh, but like, what does this happen?

00;07;20;25 - 00;07;46;04
Unknown
But anyways, went home, took that pill. And then I guess a couple of months later got pregnant again, and the exact same thing happened. I was meeting again and I was like, it's happening again. So I called them and I'm like, I'm pregnant, but I'm bleeding again. Like, this happened before. Like, what's what's happening? That could be, I forget what kind of pregnancy, but it's like it's not actually a pregnancy if we get what they call it.

00;07;46;07 - 00;08;09;16
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. And so I was like, okay, but this happened. And they was actually even after bled, there was something. So we went and again, that one didn't have a heart beat was just it's there but it's nothing. So they're like, it happened again. I was like, okay, now can we try to figure out what's happening? And they were just like, only after three times will they start to test and try to figure out what's happening.

00;08;09;16 - 00;08;32;16
Unknown
And I was like, so I have to go through this again, like to try to figure out what's happening. And so at that time I started to explore, like, where else could we go like I had I mean, I don't know how, but I've heard about midwives and jazz. And so I started explore a birthing center, and then I went there and met the wife, and I was like, hey, this is happening.

00;08;32;16 - 00;08;50;08
Unknown
And she sat with us for like an hour, just like talking through this, what I'm experienced with my body is doing so for the first time ever, because all the other appointments is like, take this pill. The luck. She it felt like she was listening. So that was like, oh, make me this is wait, this is the thing.

00;08;50;08 - 00;09;08;03
Unknown
This is way better. And so she immediately was like, maybe your progesterone. So let's get that tested. And I did get a test and it was extremely low. And so like when she's like when you're ready try again. We'll get you on progesterone. And so that's kind of what we did I don't know how many months after but started trying.

00;09;08;03 - 00;09;26;21
Unknown
But I was on progesterone and then that one. So that was my son my first son. So you know it I didn't bleed, but I missed the Paris. I was like, okay, that's one good sign. I'm not bleeding. So this one's probably gonna hopefully work. But I did not want to go to A because we would go somewhere else to get our ultrasounds.

00;09;26;22 - 00;09;43;24
Unknown
I didn't want to go because I was like the last two. The lady was just so like. It was just like no emotion. And even with the second one, my husband said, please don't tell say anything to us because we just we just want you to do it. And then we'll go to the doctor to explain what's happening.

00;09;43;24 - 00;09;59;09
Unknown
Right? And she was like, oh yeah, I definitely will not do that. And then she went to go say, oh, there's nothing there. It's just like, because because we knew she was cold. It was the same lady. She doesn't have any bedside manner. So we asked the midwife, we're like, we don't want to go get an ultrasound there.

00;09;59;09 - 00;10;15;01
Unknown
And we saw there was an ultrasound, like an old school ultrasound machine in our office that was like we were like, can we just use this one? And she was like, yeah, I don't usually use it because that early it's tough to see, but sure. And so we did it. And then we didn't see anything like she saw nothing, like there was nothing on the screen.

00;10;15;03 - 00;10;32;00
Unknown
And you know, and she was like, you know, she was like, unfortunately there's nothing there. And I had asked. I was like, it just feels different this time. Like I wasn't bleeding my boobs of Bigorre, which didn't happen the first few times. Like I just felt like I was like, I don't know, it just feels this feels different.

00;10;32;00 - 00;10;52;08
Unknown
So if I were to not do anything, I'm not going to take the pill to toss stuff. Well, my body just eventually like let it go. And I think, like as I say, that I'm like, wow, I really didn't know much about my body, but I just thought like, because it kind of seemed like if I didn't take the pill, it's going to stay in there and we'll get in.

00;10;52;09 - 00;11;11;28
Unknown
You'll get an infection. So that's why you take the pill. And so I was like, well, my body pass it. Like if, if it's not viable, it eventually will happen. Right. And she was like, yes. The only downfall is you may be like at the grocery store and then you start bleeding like that's. And I was like, okay, that's fine, I will take that chance.

00;11;11;29 - 00;11;30;01
Unknown
And so I think we did that, but also how we I so the ultrasound showed no pregnancy tissue at all. Yeah. Like she could I guess she saw like a, like I guess the egg there was just she couldn't see a baby. She couldn't find a heartbeat. She couldn't see a baby like she didn't. And like, I don't know how to read the military sound.

00;11;30;01 - 00;11;49;28
Unknown
So I was just like, yeah, I guess there's nothing in there. Like, okay, good. Yeah. And so that was it. And I was like, I'm just going to wait. And those four weeks worked for just they were like, thank God you didn't take the freaking pill and kill your son. Oh my God, I know it's wild. It's so crazy.

00;11;50;02 - 00;12;12;13
Unknown
Like we think about that. We're like, thank goodness. I was just like, is it okay if I just wait? And so at 12 weeks when we went and she did the scan like, like, no kidding. We were like, okay, repair ourselves. This is going to be the, you know, third, three times it's been like just crappy news. Nothing's come out but nothing's come out, no bleeding, no nothing.

00;12;12;15 - 00;12;35;20
Unknown
And so we were just like, but carousels, we may not see anything. And then like, she literally put it on my belly and there on the screen was this little baby, like, bouncing around. And he was in. It's so like dark to spend your whole first trimester, like, disassociated. Like like you think it's there's no baby because of this ultrasound.

00;12;35;28 - 00;13;01;12
Unknown
Yes, but there's totally a baby that's so twisted, like, psychologically getting excited. Like just being, like, my body's probably going to fail me again. Oh, that's so weird. Yeah, it's. It was one of many reasons not to do an ultrasound. Yes. Yes. And so yeah. So then he was there and then the rest of the pregnancy. Oh my god.

00;13;01;18 - 00;13;20;02
Unknown
Psych. I think we did one ultrasound like the anatomy one. And then after that, because we just also did not like going to the place we had to go to get an ultrasound. But yeah, that, you know, doing it at a midwife at a birthing center, it was a standalone birthing center. We were like, we are crunchy. Like we're doing the like weird thing.

00;13;20;04 - 00;13;40;12
Unknown
And looking back now, obviously, like once your eyes are open, you're like, oh my goodness. There were so many things like that itself, so many things that was just like, not how it should be. Like even the fact that we were stressing like, if he doesn't come within 42 weeks or if he comes to early, like, then we can't have these people.

00;13;40;15 - 00;13;56;13
Unknown
You kind of meet all the midwives in the practice and we like wanted one person because we really loved her. But it's like we might get someone else. Like it's even just that, like you don't know who you're going to get on the day of your birth. But look like in that moment I was like, this, is that perfect?

00;13;56;14 - 00;14;15;14
Unknown
They care, you know? They care about me. The place was like, felt like it felt like home. Like I would go in compared to, you know, doctor's office, they would spend time talking, whereas a doctor's office is just like five minutes. He has a pill. I'm sorry. This kind of happens very old. So yeah. So then foster, forward to the birth.

00;14;15;15 - 00;14;37;24
Unknown
We were at home at 2:30 a.m.. My water broke. The contractions kind of happened, like, really fast. Like it came really fast. And I had said to my husband at one point I was like, if we don't go now, like, I'm not going to be able to leave the house because I was in like so much pain. And even looking back at that, I'm like, oh, like, staying at home is just so beautiful.

00;14;37;26 - 00;14;56;01
Unknown
Like, you break it like you like, I'm just thinking, like, we have to get to this place. You're just in a different, different headspace. And so we packed up, we went. The midwife kept being like, you know, it's gonna take some time, like, don't come. And that's why I was like, we're going to go. And when I, when we got there, I remember she checked me.

00;14;56;01 - 00;15;14;17
Unknown
And that's another thing where I'm just like, I didn't want her to like it doesn't feel good. Like, it's just, I just I don't I don't want that. But, you know, okay, I guess you have to check me. And I wasn't dilated enough to be, like, admitted into the birthing center. So she's like, you're going to have to go for a walk.

00;15;14;17 - 00;15;32;14
Unknown
And I was like, oh, I think she saw my face. I was like, I cannot walk. Like, I was like, this is painful. And she was like, oh, you could like go sit in the shower. And I was like, I'm doing that. Like, that's what I'm doing. So him and I were just like in the shower, like going, going through it.

00;15;32;14 - 00;15;53;07
Unknown
And then eventually she was like, okay, you're dilated enough to get in the tub, got in the tub. And then this is kind of where I look back and I'm just like, breaks my heart that this is kind of my first story, like birth story. But I was in the tub and I really just was like, I don't know when you push.

00;15;53;09 - 00;16;06;25
Unknown
Like I get so in my head I'm very type A, I'm not like in tune with my body, like at all. You know, when I stretch my husband's leg, I will be like, this is so painful. And he was like, are you just stretching too much? I'm like, I don't know. I feel like it has to be painful for it to work.

00;16;06;26 - 00;16;26;00
Unknown
Like I just have like, nobody awareness. Just the worst. And so I just was like, I don't know how I was like, how do you know when are you going to push? Like, what's it going to feel like? What is a contraction? Well, I know what a contraction is. And she's like, yes, you're not is but some in the tub and I'm like, like when do I push?

00;16;26;00 - 00;16;46;28
Unknown
And she's like, you can start pushing now. Like even that. Just looking at someone else to be like, okay. Oh weird. Now I push, I guess. So I was pushing and I was pushing like wrong. Like she was like, you're pushing like wrong. You're struggling. Let's get out of the tub and onto the bed. And so I get out, I'm on the bed.

00;16;46;29 - 00;17;13;05
Unknown
And so also she's checking me along all this, which I like heated. I just hated it. It's just not I just it was horrible. And then when I was pushing, she and I guess I guess she was also massaging stuff to open it, I guess did not feel comfortable at all. And so she was like, you're pushing like she would she bear down some area and was like, push.

00;17;13;07 - 00;17;41;19
Unknown
Yeah, like like push like where, where I'm pushing and I'm like, okay. And you know, just coach pushing. That's what she was doing. She was coach pushing me. And so, you know, pushed him out. And at one point I remember because she had me on my side with one leg up. It was a weird even I looked back at such a weird position, like I didn't feel good in that position, but it was like, you know, oh, but it's it's completely convenient for her.

00;17;41;21 - 00;18;06;05
Unknown
It's why she told you it was wrong in the tub, right? You know, like this, this birth center thing where everything looks so nice, you know, like, most babies are born in the exact same position as the hospital. Yeah, which is what's been for the provider, because she can see that's when I'm in the tub. She called. Well, she also can't abuse you.

00;18;06;06 - 00;18;27;28
Unknown
She can't have her fingers inside you. She can't do all her little obstetrical tricks that she believes in. Right? Right. Yeah. And so wishing him out at one point, she was like, I was getting tired. She was I can call you have to push him out now. So did like one big push and it was the most painful thing ever.

00;18;27;28 - 00;18;49;18
Unknown
And I was like, wow, that is like the ring of fire. Like, oh my gosh, I feel that. And so he comes out and afterwards I ask her, I'm like, did I tear? And she was like, yeah, I have to have someone else come in and check because she thinks it's a fourth degree tech. I actually had zero idea that there was like stages.

00;18;49;18 - 00;19;07;20
Unknown
I was just like, darn, I told like to me it was just terrorist attack. But she was like a fourth degree. And I was like, what that means? And she was like, you know, all the way from the front to the back. And I was like. Like what? That's like, I have a giant. And now it's like, I don't want.

00;19;07;23 - 00;19;25;25
Unknown
But she's like, I have to have someone else just come confirm. And then she's like, and we can't fix that. Yeah. So we have to transfer it to the hospital. And it was like a five minute drive to the hospital. So I was like, okay. And so and do you, do you understand that she caused that? Yes. She actually said it.

00;19;25;25 - 00;19;47;26
Unknown
She said, you can blame me because I went in there and I went in and grabbed him because the way he came out was his hand was like this. And apparently like he was getting stuck. So she went in and grabbed him and she was like, you can blame me, I closed it. She's like, you can blame me because I saved him, right?

00;19;47;29 - 00;20;17;16
Unknown
Right. Like he got it so dark and manipulative. Wow. I know, and in that moment, like, you know, when you're in that you're like, oh my gosh. Like, yes thank you. Like, and damn, I got a tab. But I guess that's that's it. That's that's how it is. Unfortunately, that happened to me. And she called the ambulance and asked if the baby would be able to travel with me, and they said yes, but it might cost eat and well, like when not putting a newborn baby in a car seat.

00;20;17;16 - 00;20;38;13
Unknown
So. So he stayed at the birthing center with my husband, and then they took me to the hospital to get stitched up. And already even that was like, oh, the doctor, that's uncool. Sometimes she can be very moody, especially with homework. Not like, you know, birthing is in a birth like so they hope we get her in a good, good time.

00;20;38;13 - 00;21;02;25
Unknown
And I was like, okay, let's hope she's in a good mood. Okay. Then she came in, my God. And she had a student with her. So she had the student looking over and like, I totally forgot this until this morning. And I was thinking about this. I was like, this student literally was gagging at the situation. So like, imagine how I feel like, yeah, like, great.

00;21;02;25 - 00;21;23;16
Unknown
I got a fourth degree. To which I didn't even realize there's a thing I have, like a tear from the front of the back. And then she's like, luckily it's like was a clean tear. So she's like, it's the best of the fourth degree. So I was like, okay, I guess I feel good about that. But then I have a student doctor or nurse or whatever looking and like, yeah, she literally the doctor is like, how about you go sit down?

00;21;23;16 - 00;21;49;13
Unknown
She literally had to go sit down. But I'm like, okay, I guess it's so bad and gross that this doctor is here gagging and you've been wrongfully separated from your newborn. Yes, yes. And I just didn't think anything of it like I do. Look back and I'm like, I miss those those moments with him. And yeah. So and it was a while, you know, you don't just go to a hospital and it's like in and out.

00;21;49;14 - 00;22;06;17
Unknown
We were there for a couple hours. I think I gave birth to him at noon. So it was like a ten hour labor, gave birth to him at noon. And I think like we had gotten back to the birthing center around 4 or 5. So I was there a couple hours. And so anyway, stitched me up. We left, went home.

00;22;06;17 - 00;22;26;00
Unknown
And, you know, we're just like, wow, that was an amazing birth. Like, that was an amazing experience. Yes. You just you never know. Otherwise. You're like, man, we did a real good. Like we avoided the hospital. I mean, I was then to get in. No way, in no way did you avoid the spittle. I know, I know, so, yeah.

00;22;26;00 - 00;22;53;03
Unknown
Oh, God. Isn't it crazy, though? Like when you're where you are now? You know, like looking back on that, because obviously so many women are still where you were. Yeah. Like, but now you're seeing, you know, once you see it, you can't unsee how women fight for their own abuse and for their own subjugation. And I know so intense.

00;22;53;04 - 00;23;16;24
Unknown
I know even when we tell stories to friends and family, it's like, well, well, I had to be a hospital because of X, Y, z. My husband and I were listening to a podcast at one of the Free Society podcasts, and a woman said, it's so clearly like you hear their trauma in their stories or like they don't even realize it, but you're like, oh yeah, they didn't have to happen that way.

00;23;16;24 - 00;23;49;15
Unknown
That's what they made you believe. Well, they just don't know anything different. And we all, in our own ways, get really attached to our stories. Yes. You know, so there is something when we are victimized or when we believe we are, when we genuinely are. There's something about our story and our problem that feels unique. And so then you pair that with the just blatant lies that the doctors tell and the midwives tell women.

00;23;49;18 - 00;24;11;25
Unknown
Because, you know, so many women emerging from what is actually unnecessary surgery are told while they're drugged. Yeah. You know, the cord was around your baby's neck or. Yeah, you know, your pelvis really did turn out to be too small. And so they go home and they're like, thank God. Like, who knew? I was like, so crazy thinking I got to have a home birth.

00;24;11;25 - 00;24;35;02
Unknown
And it turns out my pelvis is too small. And they feel unique about that. Yes. And it isn't until, you know, they sit with a bunch of women willing to speak that everyone was told the same fucking story. You know that those light bulbs can start going off. Oh, yes. Yeah. So many of you have asked me over the years about the choice to not register your baby after birth.

00;24;35;02 - 00;24;59;17
Unknown
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00;24;59;18 - 00;25;21;00
Unknown
Com and start your journey. Yeah. And so, yeah, a day postpartum with my son. My milk can come in. I thought he was latching and getting stuff, but we saw he's breathing like thought to go really fast. And so we had called the midwife and like what do we do. And she said, you know, go to the hospital.

00;25;21;02 - 00;25;46;15
Unknown
So we went to the hospital. And then that was so we already had bad experience with the miscarriages because the OB office we were was connected to the hospital. And then we go to this hospital. And that was just a matter of basically law enforcement because it was was not mad. But what happened is they put like the oxygen like test on him and it said he had really low oxygen and then they moved it and I'd said he had really good oxygen.

00;25;46;15 - 00;26;07;29
Unknown
But because of that one low reading, they were like, this is like serious. He could be having like heart failure. And we had seen like we've been here a while. His oxygen levels are good. Like basically we wanted to transfer, go go somewhere else and get a different opinion because they were just so locked on that one low reading.

00;26;08;07 - 00;26;47;20
Unknown
And eventually we were like, we're taking it where I'm hanging him and we're taking him and went to a second hospital, and they did a test and basically his he was a big baby. He was nine, five, 9 pounds, nine and a half pounds, and he's blood sugar was low. And even after all that, when we went to back to get checkups, the midwives were like, oh, we wish another midwife was on call because she would have known that and we would have avoided all like the hospital visits, but just the experience of them being like, oh, when we wanted to transfer him, the nurse was like, if you leave, like your baby is going

00;26;47;20 - 00;27;20;14
Unknown
to die. And like it was just the worst experience. And then that was that. So we're like, okay, hospitals suck balls, like we hate it. And so boss forward all the way to when you just have to understand that the hospital system is based on liability. Yeah. And so and profit obviously. But but from this lens once they get a poor reading they can't ignore it even if it seems corrected.

00;27;20;15 - 00;27;48;28
Unknown
You know, there's, there's so much to this that has nothing to do with you and your baby, you know. And it's it's all based in liability. And yeah, it just doesn't it doesn't fit for individualized family care obviously. No it doesn't, it doesn't at all. But yeah. So fast forward to we moved to Nashville. We're thinking do we want a second like okay, let's you know we're not not trying.

00;27;48;29 - 00;28;10;14
Unknown
And so we get pregnant. How old is your son at this point. Like one and a half. Oh quick. Yeah. So get pregnant and well, the first time because I'm not on progesterone. I'm not actually. No, we weren't planning it. It was a total fluke. We had just moved yet. So we're like, let's get settled and then we'll try.

00;28;10;18 - 00;28;36;28
Unknown
So we weren't even trying. Total flu. Got pregnant. I think I have my ovulation time like like messed up because it's like every time I'm like, no, we're good to have sex. Yeah, you have it. I get pregnant, so get pregnant. And for the first time I'm like, well, I'm not on progesterone because it wasn't planned and I'm not getting a period like, okay, maybe, maybe things have like worked itself out.

00;28;36;28 - 00;29;01;24
Unknown
So I'm just gonna like let it, let it be and we'll go at a 12 week appointment or something. And we went, we found midwives here, went to go meet with them. And then I had some bleeding. And then that's when we found, okay, that pregnancy is inviolable. Either that miscarriage happened in December and then in January had and I kind of was bleeding like on and off for like an entire month.

00;29;01;24 - 00;29;18;26
Unknown
And then in January I started passing like big cloth. And I had never experienced anything like I was like, what is coming out of me? And so I had called those midwives and said, this is happening, what do I do? And they're like, just see, you know how much of a pad you soak, and if it continues, then you should go to the hospital.

00;29;18;28 - 00;29;36;22
Unknown
And it did continue. So we went. I love how all these midwives you're trying to get advice from, they're all just like, go to the hospital, just go to the hospital. Just like cool. Yeah. Got it. I know, and we literally said to them, I literally was like, because we, we, we despise the hospital. Like we've never had a good experience.

00;29;36;22 - 00;29;58;26
Unknown
And so I literally said, like, do I have to like, is that money option? I was like, yeah, I got it. Okay, fine. So we go and oh my goodness, another horrible, horrible experience. So we go, I'm bleeding like crazy and passing these huge clumps and just very uncomfortable. So when we get there they asked me to put this diaper on.

00;29;58;26 - 00;30;15;28
Unknown
And it's a diaper that doesn't even like close. And I was like, do I have do they like. Yes, because we need to track your bleeding and we need to, you know, have that says like, okay, so I'm in this like diaper with a gown on and then and we're there for hours, you know, it just takes for someone to come.

00;30;15;28 - 00;30;42;03
Unknown
And eventually the doctor walks in and she first thing she says to us is, so what's your plan? And both I look at my husband and I'm like, we both are like, we're we're here. I had to figure it out, like, I don't know. And she's like, did you? Because they had heard that I had a miscarriage a month ago, said, well, did your midwives tell you that you can bleed for like, like eight weeks or so, like after you miscarry?

00;30;42;04 - 00;31;04;13
Unknown
And I was like, no, they didn't tell me that. And she was like, well, that's probably it. Like, oh, okay. Like, oh. But then they ordered, they're like, we're going to do an ultrasound, and an ultrasound tech comes in and she's like, I'm going to do two external and internal. Now I'm bleeding and very uncomfortable by tossing things.

00;31;04;13 - 00;31;22;17
Unknown
So I'm like, could we maybe just do that? Like why do we have to have both? We maybe just do like the external one. And she was like really thrown off. And she was like, well, the internal one gives us more like visibility into, like to see more detail. And so we were like, okay, could we try the external one?

00;31;22;17 - 00;31;40;24
Unknown
And then if you don't see what you need, could we do an internal one? And then, you know, after some debate just like, okay, fine. So you do the external one. Long story short, they come back and the doctor's act, we can't really tell what it is, but you still have some tissue in your uterus and it's now connected.

00;31;40;24 - 00;32;02;00
Unknown
So basically she called it a UVM. Basically like the veins, they're all connected. So if you pass it, you could bleed out and die. So now I'm like, okay, I could die. My husband's also like, okay, what do we do? And at the same time my son's daycare is calling saying he has a fever. We need to pick him up.

00;32;02;00 - 00;32;21;09
Unknown
And my husband doesn't want to leave me at the hospital because I get very like I don't I get very compliant, I guess even though I don't feel comfortable or don't like it, I will like be like, okay, I guess that's what we need. And he usually like will fight for me. Like. And so at one point when this doctor was saying stuff, he was like, Nicole, it feels like he could see I was uncomfortable.

00;32;21;09 - 00;32;39;06
Unknown
He's like, Nicole, are you okay with her at all these questions? Because she was grilling me on. Why did midwives do search and test? Why didn't they do certain tests? These are all the tests she would have checked. And like I was just getting very uncomfortable. And so when he asked me that, she was like, you don't speak for her.

00;32;39;06 - 00;33;01;12
Unknown
And then they got into her fat and he's like, I'm her husband. Like, I am here to protect her. Like. And then I'm just like, it's like, I hate this. Like, am I going to die or not? What's happening? And so after I called the midwives, they had a referring doctor, that that doctor was like, I think I think it's okay.

00;33;01;13 - 00;33;17;09
Unknown
Like because they spoke about some of the side effects. She wanted me to have a surgery, but if that surgery didn't go well, I could have could lead to a what is it going to take your whole uterus hysterectomy. That's it. And I was like, oh no, I mean I don't want that. Like I want to have kids again.

00;33;17;09 - 00;33;37;19
Unknown
And so she was like, okay, after talking to that doctor, she was like, okay, I'll let you I'll let you go. And yeah, some pills you can take to pause that. And in all that time, my bleeding actually had stopped. And at one point, you know, you wait hours in between them coming in and out. I went to the nurses and I was like, hey, I'm really uncomfortable.

00;33;37;21 - 00;34;00;04
Unknown
Could I change back into my clothes? And they were like, sure. And the bathroom wasn't in my room. So I had to walk down the hallway holding a diaper and they literally laughed at me. They were like, oh, poor girl. Like and like laughing because I'm walking like, like in a diaper. And I had changed. Miscarry. Yes. And I had changed.

00;34;00;04 - 00;34;17;26
Unknown
And I was like, what do I do with the thing that you told me I have to wear because you have to check it? They were like, oh, you can just throw it in the trash. And I was like, well, you you said you needed to check it. Oh, then just throw the table. And so I literally walked in and I just trashed it and I was like, it's, you made me wear this.

00;34;17;26 - 00;34;39;11
Unknown
And I didn't mean to. So tell me this is your last time that you. Yes, ma'am, yourself be humiliated like this? Yes, ma'am. I mean, so stand it. I hate this so much. I know we so we we went home. I took a pill because apparently had some tissue in there. Like. Are you angry at how you were treated?

00;34;39;12 - 00;35;02;15
Unknown
Yes, yes. It's like I was like, we are never coming here again. Like, never come into this hospital. Never, ever like like horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible. A couple weeks later I went to your check and I still had tissue in my uterus. And that dark bath doctor was like, it's okay. You'll probably get a period. It'll probably come out like there's nothing for us to do.

00;35;02;16 - 00;35;27;24
Unknown
So I was like, okay. And then I never got a period because we got pregnant again. And then that's when we found out we had twins. And obviously when we called to say that we have twins with the midwives, they were like, we can't, we can't see you because you have twins. And so then that opened a whole world of like, we can't be seen by midwives, we have to go to a hospital.

00;35;27;24 - 00;35;48;29
Unknown
And we were like, we are not going to in hospital. So then it was a fine of like, okay, how do we find midwives that will do it? Because we learned that they have two licenses. One of the license don't allow them to do with twins. And so if we can find midwives that don't have that license, then you mean, do you mean like CNM and CPMs?

00;35;49;01 - 00;36;14;06
Unknown
Yes, yes. So they have the nurse practitioner, then? I believe those ones cannot be at home birth with twins. No they can. Oh they can. I mean, I could be wrong, but Cam's have way more permission. Okay. Which ever one it is free. One could and one couldn't. Basically it's something like that. My guess would be Cam's in your state because Cam's are nurse practitioners.

00;36;14;06 - 00;36;40;06
Unknown
They are obstetrical trained. They are you know, they've worked in the hospital. They are considered in the medical world of higher status than CPMs, which are considered the lowest bundle you get, like unlicensed. Yes. So then we're like, hey, we got to find an underground midwife, you know? So wait, why didn't you just go with the license to could who could do a home birth?

00;36;40;07 - 00;37;04;09
Unknown
Yeah, well, they were saying we we could, they couldn't. Oh there are no I'm going to look it up really quick because I want to know since I'm okay. Talk about it like one of the ABA couldn't I mean because my guess would be neither can because that's most common. You were in Tennessee. Yeah, it's also stupid. It's like I can right away.

00;37;04;09 - 00;37;25;21
Unknown
It's like a licensed midwife can attend twin births in Tennessee unless specific conditions like more than one C-section, a recent C-section or a C-section with a vertical incision, I present like, just like a bit. A bit of it. Just like so dumb. But this says you can. It may even just be their thing because they're like, we don't want to take the liability of.

00;37;25;22 - 00;37;49;21
Unknown
Yeah, totally. Yeah. Can CPMs deliver twins at home? I mean, they probably cannot. Yeah, it says it can. I mean, you know, it's the robots on Google, but. Right. An initial they told me they cannot. So more like they won't. Right. And then I even called my midwife that we had back in Massachusetts. And she was like, oh yeah, we wouldn't be able to help you either.

00;37;49;22 - 00;38;11;22
Unknown
And that was already like, wow. Because at that point it was still like we were in that world. I was like, man, she wouldn't have seen us either. That's sucks. I mean, most medical midwives don't mess with twins. Yeah, yeah. Because it's so high risk. You know, it's saying that Cam's AMC PMS both can, but that doesn't mean really much.

00;38;11;24 - 00;38;33;15
Unknown
Yeah yeah I was told no okay. So they said no thank you. No thank you for like oh shit, what do we do? And have you learned at this point that a twin birth in the hospital is surgery? Yes. I would have to give birth in LA. And they would they you know, there are people that have done vaginally, both babies.

00;38;33;15 - 00;38;54;12
Unknown
But we knew we knew how things cascade so quick, so quick. And I was like, even if we have to be there and like fight for it. And then they would agree to things. I don't want to be fighting in the middle of birth at all. So I already was like stressing out about the fact that that's going to be our option.

00;38;54;15 - 00;39;14;14
Unknown
But we were told, if, you know, if I'm underground midwives or ones with certain certifications, I don't know. But then we could have it at home. And so we, I found to because they have to have two prison with twin that found two that were willing to do it. But they're medical midwives. Yeah. Actually one was in the process of getting license, but she would have been licensed by the time I gave birth.

00;39;14;15 - 00;39;30;23
Unknown
And so I was like, okay, let's meet. And I just did not connect with them. Their first meeting, like they were like, okay, let's meet in person. We met over zoom and I was like, okay, I guess they're on. I don't don't love them, but I don't eat them. When we met in person, they're like, let's meet at the farmer's market.

00;39;30;23 - 00;39;47;16
Unknown
And I was like, cool. You know, this is like, okay, we're going to go meet them in the farmer's market. I thought, I'm just meeting that, like, just like, hey, nice to meet you. We go to the farmer's market, I go with my son because I'm thinking, like, I'm just saying, like, meeting them as people to see it's a good fit.

00;39;47;19 - 00;40;07;03
Unknown
We go to the farmer's market, they have a bag, they check my. And, you know, as I said earlier, I'm just like, I don't want to be like, make them feel uncomfortable. So I just went with it. I feel real uncomfortable. They go and they check my blood pressure. What they're they they filling out, like, things on their iPad.

00;40;07;04 - 00;40;30;18
Unknown
Like, I guess my charts or something at the farmer's market in front of everyone, in front of everyone. And I'm like, okay, did you pay them? No, not at this point. Have not paid. What? This is so weird. So in so I'm like, the freak is happening. Then they say, okay, we want to hear that. Use the Doppler.

00;40;30;19 - 00;40;46;22
Unknown
I'm wearing a dress. Thank you. They're like, do you want to do it here? Or, like, we could go to your car for? I was like, I feel like the Doppler. You have to go on the skin, but I think maybe you don't. But I was like, let's go to the car because I'm feeling way uncomfortable at this point.

00;40;46;22 - 00;41;13;08
Unknown
So we go to the car and then, yes, I have to pull up my dress for them to do the Doppler. So I call people are walking by. It's a very, very busy farmer's market, like just outside of Nashville. Oh, this is one of the weirdest midwife stories I've ever heard. They, like, tricked you into a medical prenatal at a busy farmer's market and took you to your car to pull your dress up.

00;41;13;15 - 00;41;46;08
Unknown
Yes, dude. Nicole, that's really weird. Yes, I know, and I just let it happen. So now imagine me if I was in a hospital setting, what they probably could get me to do. Yeah. No. You're doomed. Yeah, you're doomed in a hospital. You know, I've been wanting to post something that I think about this all the time. That's like, God, free birth is so good for people pleasers and for, yes, what you haven't, like, trained themselves out of that yet because you're at such risk.

00;41;46;09 - 00;42;12;24
Unknown
I mean, everyone's at risk, you know, like, I don't want to paint this picture that like, being super assertive actually gives you that much better outcomes in the hospital. I don't think it does. But birth is good for people pleasers. Okay. Wow. Yes it is. So I immediately and actually all while we were in the process of finding them, I months back I actually did yoga.

00;42;12;24 - 00;42;35;00
Unknown
That's like, I'm sorry, I'm just here at the farmer's market. It's like it's like a like a skit that's like a monty Python like comedy skit. Like, that is so weird. That's really, really, very, very, very weird to do and did not prepare you for it. And like, why wouldn't they have just come to your home? Yes. And you know what?

00;42;35;01 - 00;43;02;12
Unknown
My home was like a ten, 15 minute drive from the forest market. I was so strange. That's why I thought I was just meeting them at a meeting. Yeah. I'm angry. Like a casualty injury. Of course. That's what I think anyone would assume. Yes. I mean, obviously, you just need to stop going along with shit. That feels weird.

00;43;02;15 - 00;43;22;26
Unknown
Yes, that is 100% true to 100%. Or bring your husband to everything. Everything? Yes, he he was like, oh, I know. I was like, I know, I know, I don't know why. I just kept going with it. Well, you do know why. I mean, you do know why. You know, like it's it's very relatable. It's not unique to you.

00;43;22;27 - 00;43;58;02
Unknown
Like we're all groomed to. Yes. Follow and, you know, put others before us. And I mean, we know why women are constantly co-creating these situations that extend their comfort zones and boundaries. Totally, totally. Okay, so you have this bizarre forced prenatal in your car. Okay. Then what happens? Yes. So leading up to that, I had actually because I did a yoga teacher training with Rachel Breathin yoga girl, and I had heard her free birth story.

00;43;58;02 - 00;44;20;18
Unknown
And when we were like, okay, the midwives couldn't see us. We have to find these other midwives. After meeting them on zoom, I still was like, I don't know. And I was like, that Freebird story was so beautiful. And it was like, that's amazing that she did that. I could never do that. That's amazing. So you had heard her talk about her own free birth, like on her Instagram?

00;44;20;23 - 00;44;44;23
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. And her podcast. Yep. Yes. Yeah. And so I had already before that prenatal I had already stopped to or now I know it's prenatal. I didn't know I had a really started to like explore that. And me and my husband were talking about it and it was like, that sounds awesome. And maybe we kind of have to go that route.

00;44;44;25 - 00;45;04;16
Unknown
Yes, but maybe not because there's these midwives. And then after meeting them, we're like, we met them on zoom. We're like, okay, like maybe. But I still was like, it just doesn't. I feel like I'm being more drawn to free birth. And then after I had met them and that experience happened, I was like, okay, that's it. It's not happening.

00;45;04;16 - 00;45;40;01
Unknown
We are now going all in with the free birth route. So Rachel, is how you learned about free birth? Yes. Yeah, yeah. And then from that then started to be like, okay, I saw I don't, I don't even think it was a post. Of course I may also want to seen a different post about Free Birth Society. And then I was I saw the podcast and then started to listen to like literally nonstop devouring all the stories and like, as you, I mean, there's no way you can listen to these stories and be like, maybe the midwives are still the ones on line.

00;45;40;03 - 00;46;02;02
Unknown
Like, there's just no way people do. I mean, for me, I was like, there's no way. And so but this is a very big deal. I mean, this is this is a huge pivot. Like, I get that you hate the hospital, but you still kept going, you know, and I'm saying that because this is a very big pivot.

00;46;02;03 - 00;46;32;05
Unknown
Like, as much as you hated the hospital, you and your husband still clearly had a, like, inherent trust or a belief in what they had to offer that you needed it or whatever, all the way up until, you know, pretty recently into the story. So then to like, realize midwives aren't an option and look at the whole other extreme is especially with twins, which is so like extreme and radical in our culture.

00;46;32;06 - 00;46;54;00
Unknown
That's just I'm just appreciating what a kind of intimidating pivot that is. It's like also because like, it just there was no options. Like my husband always says when people say like, you know, you had no options, you had to go that route. And I was like, why on there? Like, I mean, now when you look, you're like, I don't want any of you.

00;46;54;00 - 00;47;15;03
Unknown
But if why isn't the medical system supporting us in the way that like a birth keeper is like, why would it are you talking about? I know, I mean, it wouldn't it doesn't make sense. But it's like, why is it so? I always say to my husband, because we also listen to like, you know, podcasts of like biohacking and all that jazz.

00;47;15;03 - 00;47;35;13
Unknown
Like we're super into that and like, even just like eating organic food and all like crunchy, you know, people that they'll say that like, oh, you're super crunchy. And it's like, but I always say to him, I'm like, if I were a doctor and I like somehow came across this, I would be like, why am I doing things the way I'm doing?

00;47;35;13 - 00;47;56;26
Unknown
And he's like, Nicole. But they don't come across it. That's why, because I'm just like, it makes no sense. Like our bodies are made to birth. Like even as a midwife, I'm like, I just sometimes I have also a hard time putting myself and other people and I'm like, why are you doing it that way, when you could be supporting women in such a beautiful way?

00;47;56;28 - 00;48;20;25
Unknown
Like, you know, I think of our birth keeper, Mary, and like, she just supported us in such an amazing, amazing way and I'm sure it's super fulfilling and beautiful for her as well. So, like, why wouldn't I want that? And why do midwives want to like, stick their fingers in you and check like to me I'm like, I don't get how you don't see the other side.

00;48;20;25 - 00;48;38;17
Unknown
But I guess when you're in that world and you're told that that's the way, I guess that you don't know any other way. But it's just. It's just so crazy to see it. And like, sometimes I just want to, like, take people and be like, shake them and be like, see it the other way. Like, open your eyes.

00;48;38;17 - 00;48;58;13
Unknown
It's just a crazy because we're still in a world where, you know, I have a 9 to 5 job and I tell my coworkers these stories and I can see it kind of like, that's cool for you. And it goes over their head. But I'm like, no, but really, guys like, open your eyes. It's a weird place to be in.

00;48;58;15 - 00;49;24;20
Unknown
I know what they don't want to. Yes, they will when they want to, just like you did when you were ready to. Yeah. And for, for for many people, they have to be faced with serious extremes in order for big shifts to happen, you know? So you were you would have totally just gone with midwives again and done the whole midwife thing again and kept getting scans and kept getting them.

00;49;24;22 - 00;49;52;03
Unknown
You would have totally done that if they had taken you. And it's only because they didn't that pushed you into that stream. So, you know, most people are pretty asleep, pretty self centered in survival mode. And there's nothing in our default culture that teaches anyone to critically think, right? Yeah. It's not like a skill that we're being really taught and practiced as we grow up.

00;49;52;03 - 00;50;21;23
Unknown
So yeah, you know, it's you bring up like it's so innocent the way you're like framing it. I know, you know and I appreciate it. Like, I totally get it. And it is I think the simple answer is the hazing and indoctrination process of medical midwifery is so hardcore. It's so it is brainwashing. It's deeply misogynistic, and it's completely based on the midwife being the hero.

00;50;21;23 - 00;50;48;20
Unknown
And what gets really interesting about medical midwifery is that it's pitched to both the consumer and the provider, the midwife, as a healthier, more holistic alternative than the hospital. But what it's actually true is it is still obstetrics. It is still the medical paradigm. It is still fundamentally rooted in women's bodies or flawed women need help, blah, blah, blah.

00;50;48;20 - 00;51;22;04
Unknown
And so, you know, I think many medical midwives believe that they're offering a superior service because the vaginal exams will be done in your home. And the, you know, the the Doppler will be done, you know, with slightly more patience or I mean, it's just like such a till it's it's still nonsense. Yeah. But the mental gymnastics that I have observed midwives, you know, be willing to do is stunning.

00;51;22;04 - 00;51;49;02
Unknown
It is really stunning. But we all believe our paradigm. We all believe our story. We all believe, you know, our our frame. Right. And that's really dark. But it is just brainwashing. And then they get financially wrapped up in it and there's a cult like social element to it, you know, that you really can't step out of. I mean, obviously the medical care is like an epic quote.

00;51;49;03 - 00;52;15;13
Unknown
It's very obvious in every way. But midwives aren't exempt from that, you know, they're totally a part of it. Yeah. Yeah. So so yeah. So we decided, okay, we're going to we're going to go this, this route. And I was in what level of anxiety and like fear and intimidation were you facing around them. Yeah. Oh my gosh so much.

00;52;15;14 - 00;52;38;17
Unknown
Twins are high risk twin. And it was identical twin. So because we had ultrasounds in the beginning we knew okay their identity twins have 1% of. So they explained to us the difference between mono di di one and one zero. And then that these ones mono di is definitely they're all risky. This is like the middle risk. So you're not like the lowest risk level.

00;52;38;17 - 00;53;02;01
Unknown
You're in the middle. So high risk. You know they could have twin to twin transfusion syndrome. One could grow big. The other one could not. It was they going to come early. So they come early. So that's dangerous. Yeah. So all the things and so part of that was okay. We after Covid world we had learned to be like well what does risky mean.

00;53;02;07 - 00;53;24;26
Unknown
Like what does it actually mean when you say these things? And when we look like even like I guess the biggest concern for me was, I mean, they were all honestly, it was like, oh, no, like, we're going against it all, but the 20 twin transfusion syndrome. I was like, okay, if they got back, we wouldn't know, but what could they do about it?

00;53;24;26 - 00;53;52;01
Unknown
And then there's this crazy surgery that they could do that has very low success rates. And so we're like, okay, well, and then there's also stories that we read that was like they had it. But then by the end they're fine. So I was just like, so even if they had that, there's nothing to do because I wouldn't do the surgery because it has actually their studies showing that it has a very low success rate.

00;53;52;02 - 00;54;11;14
Unknown
So it's like I wouldn't do any of that. So, so yeah. So we just, you know, looked at what risky meant. And then, you know, we also were like, okay, if they come early like where is our comfort zone of, you know, what weeks do we want to get to where we would feel comfortable and basically what our conversations were when.

00;54;11;16 - 00;54;38;11
Unknown
And we obviously spoke about it like a lot, but our conversations just kept going to it's risky no matter what, no matter where, like what risk are we willing to take? And even in the case of like if there is a stillborn or if one is not growing and it doesn't work out and their only one is born, like I would listen to podcasts or story women's stories on this podcast.

00;54;38;11 - 00;55;00;19
Unknown
And it was like I've heard when they've had like a loss in a hospital and in a loss at home, and I'm like, I would want to be at home. And so we would have those conversations as if something like that does happen. Are we okay with okay with that? And then also the risk at a hospital like to us it was riskier to be in a hospital.

00;55;00;19 - 00;55;22;20
Unknown
And so yeah, it was constant conversations of the risk that we're willing to take. And are we okay with that. And also there was a lot of checking in. How do we feel about that? So if there is a stillborn like that would be devastating. Of course it would be horrible. And probably there may even be some thoughts after the fact.

00;55;22;20 - 00;55;47;23
Unknown
That's like maybe if we went to a hospital wouldn't have happened. But that's just like because we live in a society where that's what is believed, because we even had the conversation of, I said I was speaking to a friend and I was like, honestly? Like, what kills me is that if something bad happens at home, if something doesn't go right at home, people are going to look at us and say, we were irresponsible, it's our fault.

00;55;47;24 - 00;56;10;21
Unknown
But if something bad happens in a hospital, it would be like, oh, that's just sometimes how it is. And I did everything they could. Yes. And that I was like, that kills me. And my, my friend had said he was like, if that's what people think when that happened, like they are not people you want to call that.

00;56;10;22 - 00;56;32;12
Unknown
And I was like, that's actually a very point. Like, because like even what we learned, because we did a lot of like I listen to the podcast, we, we bought The Complete Guide to Rebirth. We did a lot of research on all these high risk things, and we learned so much about birth, and I learned so much about the woman's body.

00;56;32;12 - 00;56;53;11
Unknown
And like every little detail that like birth is like builds on one another and it's like you break that like that is a cascade of all these other horrible things that happened in the hospital. And when people would talk to us and be like, well, what about this? What about this? What we learned is that people don't even know, like they know nothing.

00;56;53;12 - 00;57;18;02
Unknown
They just rely on what has been told to them. And if you're like, well, did you ask your doctor why or how like common that is like, oh no, you know that famous quote that's like, if you wouldn't take advice from this person, like, don't give a shit what they think. Yes, yes. You know, like that's like so applicable to all applicable, you know.

00;57;18;08 - 00;57;45;21
Unknown
Yeah, it's you know, but it is a lot like it's overwhelming and it's like, are we doing the right thing. Are we not. But yeah, I, I think what was huge is I had come across a rebirth Facebook like Rebirth Connection Tennessee Facebook group. And in there, which is where I saw someone maybe have posted. And then there was a comment, but I saw Carry out Birth Keeper and I messaged her and kind of told her I experience.

00;57;45;21 - 00;58;01;20
Unknown
And I reached out and said, like I was like, I don't know how you go and find like a like a birth keeper. I don't know how you ask like, hey, so I know it's not like I don't think it's illegal, but it's not like a I don't know. It's not a thing you advertise. So do you do this?

00;58;01;22 - 00;58;24;04
Unknown
And basically we connected and that was amazing because she had monthly village prenatal. And so I would go to those and then going to those was there were all these other women that were free birthing too. And one of my I think it was my first or second village Natal, someone was sharing their free birth story and I was like, this cool.

00;58;24;05 - 00;58;43;10
Unknown
Like I hear it on the podcast, but it is a real person who did it and something she like said is like, and then there was another story after her is too. But it's funny because now I can relate to it. They're like, we're all so excited to hear their Freebird story, but it's like it's just birth. It's like a simple story, you know?

00;58;43;11 - 00;59;02;29
Unknown
It's yeah, it was just cool. So it was the village prenatal were like huge in being like, oh, like, oh, there are people here that are doing the same things and just so supportive, like just such a beautiful group of women that just support each other in this, like. And it was cool. There was a good amount of us, which was really nice.

00;59;02;29 - 00;59;22;22
Unknown
So I attended those, which helped. But I will say having twins and all the things you hear about twins, it was like the biggest be conditioning ever, ever, ever, ever because people would be like asking about ultrasounds and it's like, nope, not I don't know. I don't know what's happening in there that was happening when. We're not doing that.

00;59;22;22 - 00;59;42;00
Unknown
And it's like, well, have you seen a doctor? Like, no, we actually haven't. Like no doctor ever saw me. Yes. I had that weird green a little thing like I would never went and got checked. My belly never got pushed on. You had otra sounds. We did in the beginning. Like the very first one where we found out we were having twins.

00;59;42;00 - 01;00;00;00
Unknown
And then I did, like, you know, those boutique places that you go to. I did like two of those. And and it was around 20 weeks. I was like, I just want to see the same size because, you know, you hear all these things. I just want to see that they're the same size. And they were and we found out their gender.

01;00;00;01 - 01;00;20;17
Unknown
And then I think there was one. I was like, I just I just want to hear I just want to hear the heartbeat. Like I'm like stressing out because, you know, you hear all the things. And at the end. So we were like, okay, where we feel comfortable, we think is like 35 weeks. That was just our comfort level.

01;00;20;21 - 01;00;37;06
Unknown
But I did listen to I would search your podcast and I'd be like, twin births and then I would like I listened to them so many times I'd be like, when did they have their. It's like, because someone actually had their twins on the podcast very early. I think like 32, 33 weeks, something like that. And like it wasn't a thing, it wasn't a day.

01;00;37;07 - 01;01;02;17
Unknown
So I was like, well, maybe it could be a little earlier that if the babies come. So I was like, they're going to come early, I'm prepared. And then 35 weeks came and no babies in 36 weeks came, and no babies of 37 weeks came and no babies. And then I was, this is how crazy I am. I was like, is there something wrong with my body that these twins, that old twins come early, that they're not coming?

01;01;02;17 - 01;01;22;21
Unknown
Like, what if my placenta has degraded? Because that's the thing in it's not it's not a thing. But didn't you hear a bunch of term twin stories on the pod? Yeah, I think I listen like, well, they would come a little early. Like I would listen some of them, I don't know how early they came, but then some of them would come early.

01;01;22;21 - 01;01;44;03
Unknown
So I was like also just being like most of them came early. Like I had a little tag. I wrote all the stacks of all the twin rebirths. I know, crazy, but just in my way to to. I interviewed a woman yesterday for the pod who was 41, and the two twin births I've attended were both 41. That's amazing.

01;01;44;04 - 01;02;11;22
Unknown
That's amazing. Can't imagine. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That's like. And also you're so big at the end I'm like, I don't know how I can. My belly was so stretched the skin, I was like, it was on fire. Like so itchy. I tried everything, everything. Oh you poor thing. That's offense. So what gestation? Did you go into labor? 40 weeks.

01;02;11;24 - 01;02;26;23
Unknown
Okay, so it was over a month of me being like, they're going to come, they're going to come. No, they're not coming. And at near the end, I said to my husband, I was like, I feel like I just want to go get an ultrasound to see, because I had this story and I would talk to my birth keeper and we would like it out.

01;02;26;23 - 01;02;47;23
Unknown
But I had the story that like, maybe something's wrong with me that they're not coming early. And we spoke about, well, if I go get an ultrasound, what would that do? Like, and it always comes back to like nothing. And then I would also be like, do I feel like something's wrong? No. Nothing's wrong. Okay. Like stop that.

01;02;47;25 - 01;03;06;05
Unknown
Like stop going down that route. So yeah. Anyway, so they came up 40 weeks actually a couple days before they came. I was talking to my husband and we were like, it could be literally in an hour that they'd come. And then all of a sudden I feel water, like I'm like, I'm like, am I being? And I'm like, nope, it's not me.

01;03;06;05 - 01;03;23;15
Unknown
Because I couldn't stop my being. I couldn't stop this. And then so we're like, okay, well, this broke. I'm going to go into labor. And that was another area where it was like nothing was happening. I would wake up the next day and nothing happened, and the next day and nothing happened. And then it's like your water breaks.

01;03;23;16 - 01;03;47;05
Unknown
Oh, you could get an infection. So then it's like, like unpacking that and making, you know, and being okay. And we think that was just like a little, like a little punctual tan and but yeah. Then eventually on a Sunday at 2:30 a.m., my water broke and I was like, okay, this could be it now. But it also could just be in your first baby's water broke at 2:30 a.m..

01;03;47;05 - 01;04;05;27
Unknown
Two? Yes. Exactly the same time. Yeah. That's funny, I know. So we go to the bathroom, my husband starts filling up the pool I'm sitting on. I went and showered first, and then I'm sitting on the toilet, you know, having my contractions. And I literally said to my husband, I was like, this is going to be quick, like.

01;04;05;28 - 01;04;25;00
Unknown
And he had called carry out birth keeper to come. And I was like, it's going to be quick, like get the pool filled up. And once the pool was filled up, I got into the water and the one thing I was nervous about is because of my previous birth. I handed everything over to her to be like, you tell me when to push you.

01;04;25;01 - 01;04;42;16
Unknown
Like I knew my body would tell me what to do. But I was like, what if it doesn't? And so I was in the tab on my knees, leaning over the tub, and at one point I was like, okay, now I feel it. Now this is when you push. I felt him and I was like, okay, it's time to push.

01;04;42;16 - 01;04;58;15
Unknown
And so I pushed him out. So this was three hours in, I'm already pushing. And I said to my husband and I was like, get in the tub, you have to catch him. So had pushed him out. I was intense because, I mean, that was it was fast. It was more to break three hours. I pushed him out.

01;04;58;17 - 01;05;18;23
Unknown
It was he came out and I was like, that's the ring of fire for sure. Like it was crazy feeling. But I was like, it's amazing being in water. Like it felt so good to be in water. And so he caught our first, which you wanted with your first and that you made you get out. Get out. Yep.

01;05;19;00 - 01;05;42;14
Unknown
Yeah. So he called Ali his name. Oliver. Ali climb, Ali. He caught him and my cord was pretty short, so I. I wanted to turn it around now. Like my leg over his head. We put the baby on my chest and had to, like, have him, like, pretty much on my belly, actually. And then shortly after, I was like, the contractions are happening again.

01;05;42;14 - 01;05;59;02
Unknown
And I literally like I literally said, like, I don't want to do it. Like I want to do it too far. Like I was just like, I'm tired. Like it hurts. I don't want to do it again. But you know, you can't stop that. So I started having contractions and I was like, okay, I got to flip back over.

01;05;59;02 - 01;06;21;03
Unknown
I wanted to be in the same position. And so I get a leg over his head, look back over, and I started to push and I felt this crazy pain in my groin on the right side. Like every time I would push, it hurt like intensely. And so I said the word and I would try. I was like, okay, you have to move.

01;06;21;03 - 01;06;35;29
Unknown
So I would try and move my leg around in different positions, and every time I push it, I would get that pain. And I said the words, I feel like he's stuck. I didn't actually really believe that he he was stuck, but I said he stuck. So I was like, I need to take a break. I need to turn around.

01;06;36;00 - 01;06;53;10
Unknown
Said, you know, turn around, get my leg over my husband. I'm now sitting facing him. And like, the contractions didn't stop. They just kept coming. And so I would push. And there were times when my husband lived, like, Ollie out the water a little bit and I'd be like, no, no, you're pulling on the cord, like lower him.

01;06;53;12 - 01;07;11;26
Unknown
And so I would push and the the pain went away. So I was like, okay, this is the position. And I would push and at one point and just that thing was happening at one point, my husband felt he could see there was something sticking out, but it wasn't a head. It didn't look like Ali's. And he felt and it felt really bumpy.

01;07;11;26 - 01;07;35;11
Unknown
And after a while he figured that it was like his hand and his wrist that he was feeling. And so he was a little worried that it's the same thing that my son had experienced. But where is your older son? Oh, he's like 238 at this point. It's like 5 a.m.. Yeah, yeah. And so every time I would push, there wasn't really much progression.

01;07;35;11 - 01;07;55;25
Unknown
And my husband was like, Nicole, like, I think you should turn around again. And I was just. And I also think he could tell I was just, I was like so tight. And I was like, I know, but I don't want to. I don't want to turn around. I don't want to get my leg back up. I was worried that if I go back in that position, it's going to get that pain again.

01;07;55;25 - 01;08;14;19
Unknown
And so I kept trying to push in that position and I would lift my like pelvic, my pelvis up to like I was like, maybe if I lift it up, you're just like, I'm out. And eventually he was like, I think you should change. And so she was like, okay. And I turned around in the same position I was with Ali.

01;08;14;19 - 01;08;32;29
Unknown
And then like one person, he came out. And so he was holding all of that. He had he handed over Theo. That's the second one. He had her with Theo to carry out birth keeper, and he still had like half of his sack. It kind of had ruptured, but it kind of had like twisted a little bit. So they were still they had to like peel it all.

01;08;33;03 - 01;09;02;01
Unknown
And I just remember being like, oh, it's done like and it, it was Razi that there was two like it's like there's, there's two like this is wild. And so she had had on me and we were holding the boys in the, in the water. And he had come an hour exactly an hour later. So total birth was full hours, and Ali was 9 pounds and Theo was 7 pounds, 13oz.

01;09;02;01 - 01;09;21;04
Unknown
So he was a little smaller. But yeah. So I was like, I want to get out, I want to shower before I get into bed and like, wait, what about your placenta? It was still I still had that in. So they were still all they were both still connected to it and I was holding them. The tub was just like full of blood.

01;09;21;06 - 01;09;35;08
Unknown
And so I was like, I want to get out. I guess it was like, I want to get that out of it and then go to shower. But I stood up and I was like, yeah, no, that's not happening. So I got out the tab. Oh, I guess at that time I didn't say, I want to go out.

01;09;35;10 - 01;09;53;23
Unknown
I got out the tub, sat on the floor, and literally the placenta was like a little just it just came out like it was. It was that was easy. I was like, oh, that's out. It feels good. Like it was. I was not even stressed about that. And then that's when I said, I want to go shower. But I stood up and it was like, yeah, that's not happening.

01;09;53;23 - 01;10;14;24
Unknown
And like, I was like, I need to lay down. So I laid out on the floor for a little bit, just holding the babies, and then they got the bed ready and I was like, yeah, I'm not going to shower. I want to get right in bed. So got into bed. And yeah, that's when we noticed that Ali was very purple, like very purple, very red.

01;10;14;24 - 01;10;39;16
Unknown
But he was breathing like he was fine. His color was just weird. So we're like, is is this okay? And so that was a little bit like, what are we going to do. Are we doing like what is this? He was very, very different color. You could he nurse. We we tried but they were having struggle latching. So they were on me and we were like talking about okay what what do we do?

01;10;39;18 - 01;11;00;27
Unknown
And we, we know as you know, we don't like the hospital. And I just kept being like, I think, let's monitor him if he's eating and being and pooping, I think it's okay. And basically we wanted him and he was doing great. He was doing pot. He was no different than Theo. He just his color. And so yeah, we just were like, okay, we're going to monitor this.

01;11;00;29 - 01;11;19;17
Unknown
And for a couple days we monitored it and he was doing fine. So with my first I had troubles with latching and I was like, okay, I want to I definitely want to try with them like much harder. But it I was having struggles and I was in my head about I don't want them to have low blood sugar just like Levi did.

01;11;19;18 - 01;11;37;20
Unknown
They have big babies so I can't and then gave them milk that way through a bottle so I knew they were eating. I knew they were getting milk and they were peeing and pooping. Just thought. But that's when Kerry had asked in the group if that had happened, if anyone else had seen that before, and they were responses like, yes, it may be a couple days.

01;11;37;25 - 01;11;58;03
Unknown
So we were like, okay, we're just going to monitor it. So we monitored it and we never took him to the hospital. And he's a healthy, throbbing, happy boy. But it was stressful. It was like, why are we doing the right thing? What if something is wrong? And then I was like, I had such a bad tear with my first that I was a little worried about having a tear.

01;11;58;03 - 01;12;18;25
Unknown
And six days postpartum there was like something hanging out of my vagina and I tried to pull at it and it was like I could like feel some tension. And I just was like, is this is this prolapse? What is this? What is this tissue hanging out? And it was part of the sac. Yeah. So I was like, I don't know what this is.

01;12;18;26 - 01;12;39;25
Unknown
And so I had made the decision I want to go get it checked. And when I had looked down there, I was like, I think that also have a tear. I don't know what that is and I think I have a tear. I just want to go get checked. So I went to the hospital six days postpartum, and I had learned on the way there that like, if it is a tear six days postpartum, there's nothing really that they can do.

01;12;39;28 - 01;12;58;01
Unknown
I would kind of have to like, wait till it's all healed and get like something done, or they would have to, like basically cut it up and then fix it. And I was like, okay, but there's still something else. And what if it's prolapse? I don't know what this is. I'm going to the hospital. And I walked into the hospital and I was so nervous.

01;12;58;01 - 01;13;16;15
Unknown
I was like my hobby because I was like, I don't want to be questioned. I don't want it to be judged. I was beyond like, I have never, ever been through with the babies. We left them at home with some friends who were watching them. I was like, I'm not taking those because if I take them, they're going to see all these color and they're going to do something.

01;13;16;15 - 01;13;40;05
Unknown
And I'm not I'm not taking them. And I also was like, I'm not going to say I had meant. And so when I said I gave birth at home. I've never been so scared going, going into hospital, going anyway because I was like, I'm so scared of what if they report me? What if they, you know. And so, surprisingly, we drove an hour to a hospital.

01;13;40;05 - 01;14;01;23
Unknown
We heard we're okay with home birth. And so they actually did a really good job. They didn't question me, but the doctor checked and he basically was like, oh, this is just some retained tissue. And reflecting back, I actually think what happened is I had retained tissue from my miscarriage that never, ever cost because I never had a period.

01;14;01;23 - 01;14;29;06
Unknown
And I wonder if it was still from that, that it finally came out because it was it had passed when I was at the hospital. It was huge and it was a clump of just tissue. It was big. So and he did that. We're going to show you postpartum from your baby's extremely common, you know. So either way, I mean we'll never know either way.

01;14;29;07 - 01;14;55;22
Unknown
Yeah. And then he said I had a slight tear and even that was like, whoa, I just had this basically the same size baby. And I didn't care. I didn't like, oh, of course not. This new weren't being abused during it. Yes. So and you also weren't forced to push before you were ready. Yes. And that that also was like you will feel it if anyone's listening to this and is ever like, what does it feel like?

01;14;55;23 - 01;15;19;29
Unknown
When do you know? You will know? Well, we're on our third generation of women being so drugged up and disassociated from their bodies and then told to push. And so women out there who haven't done this this way yet, it's a wild, you know, concern because it's so obvious when you have a drugged birth. It's like, you know, when when will you know that you need to poop?

01;15;20;00 - 01;15;44;27
Unknown
It's literally as like, ridiculous as that. But we're three generations into. Yeah, being completely, you know, alien like, foreign to our natural, you know, spontaneous reflexes in this way. So, yeah, it's really a trip. Yeah. So, okay, I have a final question for you that's kind of in the back of my mind. Before we wrap, what would you say?

01;15;45;03 - 01;16;08;27
Unknown
You know, like with your birth keeper? Like she is a very new birth keeper. I am going to assume you were her first twin birth. What was it about her and the role? Like? What were you looking for? Out of that knowing, you know, because women all the time are like, I just want someone really experienced. But that's also in the sovereign birth world.

01;16;08;27 - 01;16;29;10
Unknown
I'm like, well, doesn't really exist yet. You know, like everyone we're training now is only going to be a couple years in. You know, everyone's kind of new to this work. Not everyone, but, you know, most people because of the like turning of the wheel of where we're at anyway. So knowing she was new, this was probably her first twin birth.

01;16;29;12 - 01;17;00;03
Unknown
What were you looking for and what did you get and why did you involve someone, particularly who is new? Yeah. And doesn't have experience with twins? Yeah. I think, you know, I just wanted someone who, because I knew she's not going to be medical like, I had listened a little bit already to some of the podcast and, and know like, you know, there's going to be no medical pieces.

01;17;00;06 - 01;17;23;12
Unknown
So it was like just someone to like, support and I guess like validate like that. Your body can do this, like because I can sometimes question it and be like, is this irresponsible? And just have someone that, like we did ask, but we did ask her, like, what if one comes out and isn't breathing? Like, what do you do?

01;17;23;20 - 01;17;47;19
Unknown
What would you do? And she would always just be like, she would look at me. And sometimes I will say that it was like, no, no, no, you have to have an answer. Like, because it'll be like, you know, just have you hold the baby and, you know, it would just be it wasn't like she was like, oh yeah, this is what I would step in and like say to you kind of thing where as.

01;17;47;21 - 01;18;06;11
Unknown
Right. That's kind of my point of the question. So like, what did you want her for and what did you get? I just wanted to feel like supported, like my husband, 100% support, like he didn't know question. He wasn't like, I'm sure we should do this. He was like, yeah, let's do it. Like, if that's easy to do with that.

01;18;06;11 - 01;18;36;29
Unknown
So I had that support. I guess I just wanted support from also a woman and a woman who knows that the body is made to do this. And because there is even when we had the scare with Ali and my husband would be like, what do we do? Should we go to the hospital? And it can be scary to be if it like, there may have been a part of me that's like, yeah, I think, I think because I had days where I was like, maybe we should go to the hospital.

01;18;37;00 - 01;18;56;28
Unknown
Then he kind of supported me. But in that moment when we looked at Kerry, it was like, maybe she will have an answer. She was like, she would look at me and be like, Nicole, what do you feel like? What are you feeling? And it was just that like person to like, have me look back in to be like, let's see how I feel versus like.

01;18;57;02 - 01;19;23;01
Unknown
And I guess that's what I wanted, like someone that because I am not totally with my body, sometimes I can question or just be like people pleasing. And she did an amazing job along at all to be like, let's go inwards, like help me go into it to see like, well, what do I feel even like just me being like a thinking about the pain of birth.

01;19;23;02 - 01;19;56;20
Unknown
Like she would just be that person that I don't have in my life that's like, hey, you all know. So let's tap into that. Like she helped me tap into that. And I think that's what was amazing. And she also helped bring me into a community that is just such a beautiful community. It actually breaks my heart a little bit that like, I can't I mean, I still go to Village Prenatal, but a lot of those moms, because a lot of the people in that Natal have had babies they can meet during the week, and I still have a non to five job.

01;19;56;20 - 01;20;17;26
Unknown
So it's like there is a piece of me that's like I want to be part of back to me to be still and I can't always be there. But even just bringing me into that and just seeing how there are women out there that do this and this is the way like to give birth like that was, I think, what she brought and it actually far exceeded my expectations.

01;20;17;27 - 01;20;41;00
Unknown
I thought it would just be like, we met her, you know, she came a couple times before the birth and she would be at the birth and and that's it. But that wasn't the case. Like the support afterwards, having that community was just she was amazing. Like, and she even came and visited like a few days ago. Like it was way more than just a transactional relationship.

01;20;41;00 - 01;21;20;20
Unknown
And it really, like brought me into a beautiful community. And so that's kind of like, I think I got way more than I thought. I thought it would just be support, but it was way more like she helped bring me see, like inward, bring me to myself and to my womanhood, I guess. Yeah, I wanted to ask that because it's often really hard for new birth workers who are training with us to understand why they would get hired and like what they bring to the table, even though, you know, the majority of them are totally capable of everything you just named, you know, but they they're new.

01;21;20;20 - 01;21;36;19
Unknown
So they walk with a big story around, like, but I haven't been to a back or twins or did or I haven't had my own free birth. So like everyone has their own unique excuses that are all the same. So I just wanted to hear what you said, because hopefully a lot of them will hear your answer. And it's it's exactly right.

01;21;36;20 - 01;21;58;02
Unknown
You know, like the women who want to birth in the sovereign way and hire women like our graduates are looking for what you just articulated. Yeah. You know, because if they wanted a know it all medical provider, they could go out or not. Yeah. She it's I guess it's empowering. Like empower me like, you know. Yeah. So she was awesome.

01;21;58;02 - 01;22;23;03
Unknown
So thank you. Yeah I love that the just the passing of the torch you know that happens through all of this work. It's so cool. Yeah yeah. All right girlfriend, thank you so much for your time and your stories. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for listening. All right, women, I hope you enjoyed the show today. You can support this podcast by donating to it through the link in the show notes below.

01;22;23;03 - 01;22;46;23
Unknown
And of course, leaving an awesome review on whatever platform you listen on. The more reviews, the more visibility the show gets. So let's spread the good word of free birth. Don't forget, you can watch all of my podcast interviews on YouTube and see the women as they tell their birth and power stories. And you will also find our viral free worth collection of epic Raw Birth videos on our YouTube channel.

01;22;46;23 - 01;23;08;00
Unknown
So make sure you're subscribed! We always have a lot going on at Free Birth Society, and you can find out about all of it at Free Birth Society. And I am at Free Birth Society on Instagram. Please opt in to my newsletter below so that you don't miss a thing. We offer courses on free birth, sovereign birth work as well as one on one coaching, women's retreats so much.

01;23;08;04 - 01;23;31;28
Unknown
Our exclusive private vetted membership. The Lighthouse is definitely something to check out. If you were looking for a community of wise sisters to get guidance from and to meet in real life. Together we rise. Sisters. We must speak our stories, fully, claim our lives, and support one another. This is the living revolution and I am so grateful to be in it with all of you.

01;23;31;29 - 01;23;33;05
Unknown
Till next time.

10: Double the Responsibility: Birthing Twins in Sovereignty

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