00;00;02;15 - 00;00;38;22
Unknown
Highwomen. Before we dive in today, I need to name something important. This episode, along with all episodes that you will hear until our winter break in mid-December, was recorded before my birth prior to mid-August. Since then, our family has walked through the unimaginable. Our son was stillborn and we are in deep mourning as the shows air, you'll hear and see me pregnant, which now feels incredibly painful and weird.
00;00;38;25 - 00;01;14;24
Unknown
Given that you are holding the sacred knowledge of what came after. So please forgive the dissonance. These stories still deserve to be shared and heard. We welcome your prayers, your loving thoughts, and your support as we navigate this spiral of such deep grief. I hope you find resonance and nourishment in this conversation today. Thank you. If you are like most of my listeners, you are devouring these episodes and you're probably wishing that you could speak to the women that come on this show.
00;01;14;27 - 00;01;42;22
Unknown
Learn from them, even get to know them in real life. Right. Well, I would like to invite you into my inner circle. It's called the lighthouse. The lighthouse is my highly exclusive online membership, and it's where most of the women on this podcast are hanging out. It's by far the best social media platform on the internet. It's highly curated by yours truly, and our team personally vets every single member coming in to ensure the highest caliber community imaginable.
00;01;42;25 - 00;02;13;03
Unknown
I'm talking a full feed of free birth announcements every day, engaging and intellectual conversation about everything taboo under the sun, a ton of group calls every month to connect and be in circle. Not to mention the now seven year old matriarch search engine that will quickly replace your Google searching. Add your name to the list in the show notes below, and consider taking your place among us brilliant, sovereign wild women, because it's just simply better when we're all together.
00;02;13;04 - 00;02;42;25
Unknown
See you on the inside, sis. Welcome to Free Birth society. I'm Emilee Saldaya, and this is where we break the spell of medicalized birth. Remember what's been forgotten and rise together into our birthright to live birth and mother as sovereign women. Celia, welcome. Thank you. You know my husband. I mean, you wouldn't know this, but my husband loves music from the 60s.
00;02;42;25 - 00;03;05;06
Unknown
And I think it's the Beatles. But we were just listening to the Celia song this morning, and it's actually in my head. Coincidentally, that you get to be on this the same day, so this meant I've had that song to me all of my life. Yeah, I bet. Exactly. I want a song. There's probably a song. My name is pretty.
00;03;05;08 - 00;03;38;13
Unknown
Pretty common. So. Yeah, I'm excited to have you on this season. Feels like a long time coming. I've known you for several years now. You've taken our beak. You have come to MRF. You have been in the membership. You've been, you know, really bringing this work forward in your own beautiful way out on the West Coast. You've become friends with so many women through this membership or, sorry, through this community platform, whatever.
00;03;38;16 - 00;04;14;00
Unknown
You came to midwife within? Yeah, just you popped in, you know, to this and Ben and Ben cultivating it in your own life for a long time. So what I'm really excited to hear about today is, of course, your evolution of these four babies and these four births. And then with this last one being a free birth, but also your journey as a birth worker and, you know, holding circle and stepping into this work and carrying this work in the ways that you and many of our mutual friends do out there.
00;04;14;00 - 00;04;38;20
Unknown
So, yeah, I just want to sit back and enjoy and have you tell me all about how these last how many years is it? How old is your son? He's almost eight. Yeah. So last, let's call it a decade of your life. You just give us the our summary of your total evolution of a mother and a and a birth worker.
00;04;38;21 - 00;04;41;05
Unknown
Go.
00;04;41;07 - 00;05;12;00
Unknown
Lexi. Well, I don't think. Yeah, the birth worker piece and the birth becoming a mother. And that whole evolution, they can't be separated, right? It's totally interwoven. I will start by saying I was just a birth my entire life. I was born at home. I don't know if that's why I'm a birth nerd. There are lots of people are born at home and not going that route.
00;05;12;00 - 00;05;40;24
Unknown
But I remember being obsessed from a very young age, like nursing my baby dolls, and my brother was born at home after me. So that was also part of, you know, me being a toddler and seeing that. And when I was graduating high school, I did not want to go to college. And so I looked for what I could do with this thing that I was obsessed with.
00;05;40;27 - 00;06;10;08
Unknown
So I found a dual in training and hopped right in there when I was 18, and off I went. It was I mean, I came from this background of like watching a baby story on TLC, which is all like very hospital and weird, and I can't even believe that they made that show. But, you know, going into doula work, I that was what was normal for me.
00;06;10;08 - 00;06;44;15
Unknown
So like the first birth I attended was a planned C-section because her doctor convinced her she couldn't have a B back. And I didn't even really know better at that time. I'm like, whatever you need to do, I'm there for you. And, so a few years later, let's see, I was 18 then attending hospital births. And then I meet my future husband in when I was 23.
00;06;44;16 - 00;07;25;09
Unknown
And long story short, we on our first date, both talked about how we wanted to have large families. Five kids to be exact. And six months later we were pregnant with our fourth. And so it was like a conscious decision. We kind of had this agreement or understanding that, you know, we don't know what the future holds or how we will be together in the future, but we have this fundamental commitment of what we want to create for family in the world.
00;07;25;10 - 00;08;00;18
Unknown
And we were we were clear on who we wanted to be as parents and the the whole marriage and relationship evolution was a new world that we are still, you know, still learning all the time, but we're still together, which is amazing. So pregnant with my first baby at 23 and I'm, I always knew I would have a home birth because that was normal to me, even though I was attending all these hospital births.
00;08;00;23 - 00;08;36;23
Unknown
I was like, those people are crazy. I'm obviously not doing that. And I found out that my one of the doulas from my training had become a midwife, and so it was kind of a no brainer for me to hire her. I really liked her. We had had this relationship already. I felt weird inviting some stranger into my birth, but free birth was not even on my radar yet as a thing, I thought I was like out there and crunchy and all holistic and natural, having homework with a license midway.
00;08;36;24 - 00;08;40;00
Unknown
So.
00;08;40;02 - 00;09;10;13
Unknown
We met with her about two times in pregnancy. One red flag that stands out now is that in one of our prenatal meetings, bless you. Go again. One of our amazing beginnings of a cold. So I'm like, oh no, I know it'll be a red line. Some lemon water. My husband had asked her, like, what's your favorite part of being a midwife or something like that?
00;09;10;14 - 00;09;39;23
Unknown
And she said one of her favorite things is being able to stitch people up after what it was like. I kind of felt weird in the moment, but I brushed it off. Whoa, what a weird, weird thing to say. Yeah. Of all all the all the epicness of attending birth, putting the needle in the swollen vaginas. What gets her?
00;09;39;25 - 00;10;18;06
Unknown
Yeah. Wow. Okay, man, just when I thought I heard it all. God, yeah, that was weird. But I did not flag it at the time. Yeah. So let's see. Birth. First birth. I remember coming closer to 40 weeks and talking to myself, being like, okay, I know I could end up going to the hospital if something happens. I don't feel like anything is going to go wrong.
00;10;18;06 - 00;10;47;10
Unknown
But I had I don't know, there was like a little journey within myself of like noticing where my attachment was to home birth and having to, like, choose that without being so attached that I would be, like devastated if I had to pivot. And that became irrelevant. So I did have a home birth, but.
00;10;47;12 - 00;11;01;06
Unknown
It was kind of a bumpy ride in the immediate postpartum. So the birth, I will say I love all of my births, even the interfered one.
00;11;01;08 - 00;11;30;22
Unknown
So my labor was barely mild. Early labor was, I think I was like the day or a few days after 40 weeks and, you know, it was like annoying having some patients all day long. I was tired, I couldn't lay down because that was really uncomfortable. So I was like trying to nap, sitting up, drinking lots of fluids, eating lot because we watched Men in Black for just a day at home.
00;11;30;24 - 00;11;51;07
Unknown
And by the evening, I was, like, frustrated because I wanted it to progress and I didn't feel like it was progressing. And midwife said, drink a glass of wine and take a bath. And either it's going to slow down and you'll go to sleep or it'll speed up and things will happen. While we lived on Treasure Island, we didn't have any alcohol.
00;11;51;08 - 00;12;10;19
Unknown
My husband like went and knocked on some neighbors door asking for wine. They happen to have half a bottle of wine they gave to us. He's like, yeah, my wife's and labor, she needs wine. So I did that, got in the bath, had my glass of wine and bam! All of a sudden the sensation started coming every four minutes.
00;12;10;21 - 00;12;29;24
Unknown
It was building up intensity. My husband sitting on the toilet like on his computer programing, because I didn't really need anything from him, but I wanted him to be nearby. Like, don't pay attention to me. Just be over there. And.
00;12;29;27 - 00;12;54;23
Unknown
After being in the bath for a little while, I had to get up, went and got in the shower, which was in a different room. In the shower for a while I think I started to sound really loud at some point. And so he called the midwife. She she showed up, she peaked in and said she was there, but I was just gone at that point, like in a different universe.
00;12;54;23 - 00;12;57;23
Unknown
And.
00;12;57;26 - 00;13;08;19
Unknown
What I loved about this birth was that I, I felt so in my body and so.
00;13;08;21 - 00;13;45;06
Unknown
Just good at riding the waves, like breathing and moaning and swaying like I found my rhythm. And I even though she didn't interfere at the end, I really appreciate how she stayed out of my space for the labor. She was like in a different room most of the time, and she only came in if she really, like, heard me changing what I was doing, and she would come and listen to the baby's heart tones and.
00;13;45;08 - 00;14;11;26
Unknown
Leave again. So at some point I go to the toilet to pee. My water breaks, big gush. She comes in and gets down low and whispers to me, okay, it's going to get more intense now. And I, I kind of appreciated that, I guess. I don't know. I also don't know what I would have thought or done if she hadn't.
00;14;11;29 - 00;14;46;17
Unknown
Who knows? But it certainly did. After the next contraction, it went from the moaning to like, oh, it was coming down and I felt like a bowling ball was coming through me. The pain shifted into a different kind of sensation, just this heaviness, this expansion. And I needed to get off the toilet. And I went over and just instinctively got on hands and knees on my bedroom floor.
00;14;46;19 - 00;15;27;25
Unknown
My body was pushing. I did not have any conscious effort, and I just roared through each sensation as my little firstborn was coming through. When his head came out. And oddly, I felt done after that, like there was no other sensation coming, at least not in the rhythm that it was before. I probably just felt a lot of relief because that was so big, but I yeah, I was just like waiting.
00;15;27;27 - 00;15;58;26
Unknown
She was nearby taking some pictures. Husband is waiting. It had been maybe a couple of minutes. And then she puts her phone down and she reaches inside of me, and I can't remember if she told me that she was going to do that or not, but I felt her doing that, and she put her hands around my baby and started pulling and rotating and pulling.
00;15;58;26 - 00;16;24;16
Unknown
And I see in the video now how strongly she was pulling because it like pulled my whole body and I wasn't having a contraction when she was doing that. So it just felt wrong. Felt wrong. And I, I like almost tried to like make myself have a contraction. Maybe it started to come after like while she was doing that and and I screamed.
00;16;24;16 - 00;16;48;18
Unknown
I just screamed like, I gotta get this baby out. So this stops and thank God she didn't hurt him. He was okay. He came out, and he was fine. He was crying. He picked up right away. I think she might have thought she needed to do something because he was turning purple. I mean, he was fine. He was fine.
00;16;48;21 - 00;17;41;27
Unknown
And, I mean, the medical providers are taught to do. If it wasn't going according to what she thought was. But if it wasn't that it'd be the placenta. If it wasn't that, it would be something else. Like there's always something. Okay. That's annoying. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I mean, being that it was my first birth and it was just so new to this whole thing, like I did a question and I just assumed he needed help getting out, and, it was a miracle I didn't have a major tear from that, but I just had a tiny little tear at the top of my labia, which, of course, you wanted to stitch.
00;17;42;00 - 00;18;13;24
Unknown
Totally didn't need me stitch, but I'm fast forwarding, so I'm sitting there afterwards. According to the video, it was like maybe 20 minutes later that she pulls my placenta out. I can see I was trickling blood up until that point. But more, more and more blood was coming out after the placenta. I think I got in bed for a little while, and then I went to go pee, left the baby with the placenta there, and I fainted on the toilet.
00;18;13;25 - 00;19;11;14
Unknown
I remember just falling into dream state and she apparently carried me back to bed. I lay there and the whole time she was very calm and quiet and present. And so I left that birth feeling like, oh wow. Like she really respected me because she just kept this bliss state for me. And but I think now that maybe I wouldn't have had so much bleeding and fainting and all the things that she did to stop the bleeding, like giving me an IV in a shot of pitocin and pushing on my belly and making the placenta, smoothie and herbs and all, pulling your baby out and pulling the baby out, even to out the spiritual context
00;19;11;14 - 00;19;44;19
Unknown
of a first time mother emerging from her birth with the story my baby needed help is so deep, you know, like I believe that that does something to a woman's psyche and creates a fracture that is hard to even describe, you know? And it's like the the water everyone is swimming in. But you've been on this track long enough, you know, and have obviously had four births.
00;19;44;24 - 00;20;10;26
Unknown
It sounds like you've got some real awareness of it, but that's something I just think about. Obviously. I'm sure you do too. So often, like, look at this normal birth that is framed culturally as as good as it gets because it's still under the correct paradigm of the mother would have died without the midwives, you know, the the baby would have died without the midwife.
00;20;10;27 - 00;20;36;20
Unknown
Like you were a good girl, like you were crazy to birth it home. But you did it right. You did it the good way, you know? And you made sure that midwife intervened and did her medical stuff to save your you and baby. So you were still obedient to the narrative and then wound up, you know, unconsciously walking with the narrative until you, you know, knew to question and learn more that your baby would have been in trouble without her.
00;20;36;21 - 00;21;18;23
Unknown
It's just such a big deal what that does to new mothers. Yeah. It's pervasive. Yeah. And it's awesome to have come on this journey so far in the other direction. But it it was it was a slow process for me. And I, I can appreciate it for for what it is like. I didn't have this major slap in the face trauma that like, had me shift gears, how we all have our our story as it's, you know, the medicine for each of us.
00;21;18;23 - 00;21;45;10
Unknown
So. Yeah. Cleaning up. I was on top of the world, but I did start to question it at some point after that. I did, like hypno birthing training, started teaching childbirth editor, and I was just, like, all about, like, birthing in power, like feeling like you are. You've got this, you're doing this. No one else is doing it for you.
00;21;45;10 - 00;22;12;00
Unknown
Because I really did feel that way in my labor. I even gave myself a pep talk at the early labor. Like nobody can walk this path for you. This is something only you can do. And I think that helped me not look outside of myself in that birth for someone to save me. And I learned also that like, like I had never even thought about breaking the placenta before.
00;22;12;02 - 00;22;48;04
Unknown
Like, there are things that are just not even in our awareness and then done to us that, I mean, in the end, it helped me claim ownership over my subsequent birth. So, yeah, continued with doula work after that. And, and I got pregnant with my daughter when my son was two and a half, and it was right when the pandemic started, which was actually kind of great because I just got to hang out at home and I didn't have to deal with people.
00;22;48;06 - 00;23;15;03
Unknown
And, I just really liked spending time with my family. And it was right when RBK school started. So I got to be at home and in this amazing group of women, just totally nerding out about about birth. I guess I had heard about it through listening to your podcast. I started listening to the podcast and like, yeah, this makes so much sense.
00;23;15;04 - 00;23;44;18
Unknown
And I, I hear all these stories like, oh yeah, maybe they didn't need to do all of that. And I just started to get really excited about normal birth. So I, I'm pregnant in RBK school and starting to attend birth outside of the system and getting excited about doing that myself. But I also am coming with a lot of fear because I bled so much in my first birth.
00;23;44;18 - 00;24;11;24
Unknown
And maybe that's going to happen again. And my husband's not on board because, I mean, that was kind of maybe a little traumatizing for him. And he had the view that the midwife saved us, right? So we thought it heads a lot. And there was a lot of crying. And I in the end, we chose to hire the same midwife again.
00;24;12;01 - 00;24;32;25
Unknown
The and I, I can see now that I didn't stand up for myself having a free birth at that time. Not because, like, he's the boss or like he convinced me, but I just wasn't.
00;24;32;27 - 00;24;55;03
Unknown
I wasn't there yet, like, I, I wasn't ready to commit to that. And if I was, I don't think it would have been such a bite. Of course it's never he is the boss. Like people, like women pretend that that's why they don't free birth. But it's never like I need to make sure he's comfortable and he feels safe.
00;24;55;05 - 00;25;16;18
Unknown
Those are like made up excuses because we do what we want to do. Yeah. Which is what I could I could also put that on the very beginning where like, I was going to have a home birth for my first birth. Like, that wasn't even a question. There was no conversation about that. He didn't have any choice in that.
00;25;16;18 - 00;25;42;27
Unknown
And it would have been the same if I knew that I was worse, because you would have just done it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I feel you. Yeah. What was that? What's like the overview of of that birth. So I hired the same midwife again. But I also loved this other midwife and I asked them to be partners. I had actually attended birth with both of them before.
00;25;42;27 - 00;26;03;04
Unknown
And so turns out my original midwife was also pregnant at the same time and ended up dropping out towards the end, which was meant to be. So the other midwife that I had really liked was attending me. We had prenatal meetings together and I.
00;26;03;07 - 00;26;31;11
Unknown
I really loved the prenatal part of this pregnancy because it was the beginning of me taking ownership of of my birth. So I really started to look at how I want my birth to be. And these pieces that didn't go the way I wanted before. And we had a lot of conversations about that, and these are conversations that I've never heard other women do in their prenatal care.
00;26;31;11 - 00;26;55;23
Unknown
So I would talk about, you know, when when my baby is coming out, I don't want anybody near me. I don't want anybody touching me like, you're not allowed to do that. And and it was interesting because it was she was sharing where her boundaries were to and like for for example, she did not feel comfortable not doing heart tones.
00;26;55;25 - 00;27;14;04
Unknown
I was okay with that. I just didn't really care. Like, you can do it in whatever position I'm in. And but I was not okay with the vaginal exam. She is fine with that. And I've never had a vaginal exam in any of my birth. So anyway, we met in the middle. We we figured out what works for both of us.
00;27;14;04 - 00;27;49;17
Unknown
And I was also very clear that if she could not respect my boundaries, that she had to leave. And I trusted her. I trusted her because of how it felt in those conversations. And I trusted my husband to be my protector also because he knew, like, about how clear I was about certain things. And and we talked a lot about birthing the placenta and what I would want to do before getting pitocin or, you know, going down that route.
00;27;49;17 - 00;28;26;05
Unknown
So I'd always envisioned, for some reason, this birth being in my bathroom like tiny little narrow bathroom. And I think that was because nobody else could fit in there. I just knew I needed to be alone when this baby was coming out, so that I could protect my baby and myself. My little full moon baby. My water broke after doing a forward leaning inversion off my bed right on 40 weeks the same day.
00;28;26;08 - 00;28;49;16
Unknown
It was such a magical birth. My water releases. Nothing happens for a few hours. My husband and my kid are at the park and they come home. The sun is setting and then the beautiful full moon rises and I make a bone broth soup and banana bread. And we watch My Neighbor Totoro. And then my son goes to bed.
00;28;49;16 - 00;29;26;16
Unknown
And literally the moment he's in bed, it's on. And and, you know, there I go, just swaying and rocking and moaning and breathing in my bedroom. The midwife comes at some point he calls her, I guess he's he's tuned in. He knows what he's getting more intense. I remember leaning on my back tub, getting to the most intense part and feeling like, oh, somebody just please take me to the hospital and cut this baby out, I am done, I can't do this anymore.
00;29;26;16 - 00;30;06;03
Unknown
And then it was like over the mountain. And interestingly, my body shifted into breathing and grunting her down like I could feel her moving down at that point. And I just stopped feeling the need to yell. And she just came down so gently and peacefully, and I remember feeling her head wiggling around in my Gina, and it hit me, oh yeah, there's a baby in there and it's about to come out.
00;30;06;05 - 00;30;45;20
Unknown
My midwife was in the hallway, my husband was behind me, and she just easily came right out and I guess in his arms, in his hands, maybe on the floor. I'm not sure. There were a bunch of towels there. There's just so, so peaceful. And it happened exactly how I wanted it to. The whole conversation of the placenta and bleeding, it just flipped my story around because the placenta was ready to come out pretty quickly, and we.
00;30;45;22 - 00;31;12;14
Unknown
She asked me before doing anything I did, I did want her to pull it out because I just was scared. I was like, I'm going to do it wrong. I don't know which is funny now because obviously she can't feel what is happening inside of me, so I, I'm not going to hurt myself. But it was fine. It all was fine and smooth and beautiful.
00;31;12;14 - 00;31;22;05
Unknown
And we got into bed and my husband's like, I need to tell every dad that. So awesome.
00;31;22;07 - 00;31;26;03
Unknown
And.
00;31;26;05 - 00;31;48;16
Unknown
I went on to baby number three a few years, not even a few years later. Two years later, just assuming I was going to have the same midwife. But I, I as I go through each birth, I get more fearful of the pain where I, I think a lot of women get less fearful. They're like, I've done this before.
00;31;48;19 - 00;32;13;02
Unknown
I've got this. No, I would now you know what's coming. Now I know what's coming. And even though I, I trust my body and I'm very confident that it's going to be a smooth birth, I'm like, my body is just like a fight of feeling that. And I get anxiety about it. And.
00;32;13;04 - 00;32;37;04
Unknown
So I go into my third pregnancy like, like I'm going to hack it. Like I've got this hypno birthing training. I'm just going to like, really listen to all the tracks and practice breathing and meditation. And my third birth is just going to be pain free. I, I wanted a pain free birth. Well, no, that was my most painful birth.
00;32;37;06 - 00;33;01;06
Unknown
I. I think the whole like third one is the wild card got to me also. That's not helpful. They're all wild cards. Yeah, yeah. And I tell people also like, that could be a good thing to, Yeah. So I.
00;33;01;09 - 00;33;33;22
Unknown
I am approaching that birth. Same midwife. She has a different assisting midwife this time and I did not like her. She came to my house for the birth team meeting and we were going through my birth supplies and I'm like, yeah, these are all the things I got. I've done this before, got our towels and my tinctures, and whenever random shit that I don't actually use and and then the assisting midwife is like, do you have something to protect your bed?
00;33;33;23 - 00;33;57;18
Unknown
I'm like, yeah, I have these little like, cloth bed pads. And she was like, you should get a shower curtain. And I don't know, I don't I don't need that. It's, I don't want to be on plastic and like crinkly. And she's like, well do you care about your bed? And I was just so put off by that.
00;33;57;20 - 00;34;20;14
Unknown
Like, why are you talking to me like that? This birth, I had the most people present than at any of my other births. So I had hired a doula at this time who I loved, and she was awesome, but still another person in the room. So I had the midwife, the midwife's assistant, the doula, and my husband.
00;34;20;14 - 00;34;53;25
Unknown
And when the labor started of my third birth, I was so freaking anxious. I was shaking and my stomach was turning and I just couldn't relax. And I was just in resistance the whole time. The whole labor. No. The thing that I look back on now from that that is so weird to me is that everybody was in my bedroom the whole time.
00;34;53;28 - 00;35;24;17
Unknown
I'm like, there's like a crowded people sitting around me while I'm laying on my bed just in agony. Also, this was the first birth that I actually felt good laying down, so I was laying there the whole time just yelling and moaning. And there's midwives sitting there on their computers or on their phone. It was not cool. Yeah, that was hard.
00;35;24;19 - 00;35;56;08
Unknown
I got to the point where I guess transition. And I told God, I don't know if there's a God, but I was talking to God and I was like, just take me. I give up, just take me away. And and then, of course, my body started pushing after that and I felt like he was stuck. Like I didn't feel him moving down in the same way that the other babies had.
00;35;56;11 - 00;36;24;17
Unknown
And my husband whispered to me in between contractions, I think maybe it would be good if you get on him the knees just get up like I don't wander. It's going to get more intense. I was really resisting. I was really resisting. And eventually I was like, all right, I want this baby to come out, so I'll do it.
00;36;24;17 - 00;36;38;07
Unknown
And I got up and I got on the floor. All of my babies have been born on my bedroom floor or bathroom floor on hands and knees. That's how my body likes to do it. And.
00;36;38;09 - 00;37;17;12
Unknown
I he yeah, he started coming faster once I was on hands and knees. And what was odd to me this time also was I, I didn't feel like a clear break between sensations during the pushing phase. It just felt like this continuous tightening and a lot of discomfort because he was right there. Everything was just like stretched to to Max and and I was just kind of like pushing and grunting and breathing without any break.
00;37;17;12 - 00;37;35;23
Unknown
And that was just what my body needed to do. But my midwife did tell me, like, you can stop, you can stop pushing. And that I tried to kind of threw me off a little bit.
00;37;35;25 - 00;37;47;18
Unknown
But he yeah, he came through and I yelled as he was coming out, get out. And.
00;37;47;20 - 00;38;25;26
Unknown
We were we were done. We were. I felt more dramatized after that birth. Just like that. That was horrible. I don't know if I ever want to have another baby. It was so hard and I really think it was just a mental thing for me being so much resistance. How much do you think, if any, I could be totally off here, but how much do you think it has to do with you being incongruent?
00;38;25;28 - 00;39;07;29
Unknown
Like, you know, knowing about free birth, desiring free birth, not being in alignment with your partner about it. I know you had a beautiful second birth, but does that play a role in this story? Your shaping for us about this like resistant hard birth with more people there than you've ever had. Like it feels. It sounds so counter to the track that I would think you'd be going on of, you know, your attending birth outside the system.
00;39;07;29 - 00;39;34;05
Unknown
You're questioning things. You had a beautiful it sounds like pretty hands off birth with the second and then you like, kind of go the other way and bring even more people in and assistant you don't like. And that's interesting. Like like what's up with that? And how much do you think that. Because I am making up in congruency, which is not the only reason we suffer in birth.
00;39;34;05 - 00;40;02;15
Unknown
Don't get me wrong, I'm not. But because I know a little bit about you, you know, and and you're like trajectory. What do you think about that? I think that's very possible. I haven't really thought about it that way, but that makes sense. Yeah. I was like more and more in this other world of like, I didn't even want to attend hospital births anymore.
00;40;02;16 - 00;40;36;22
Unknown
I saw that as abuse. And here I was inviting more of that into my birth. So I'm sure on on a deeper level, there was some in congruency. Yeah, misalignment and feeling just wrong about all the interference and being watched and and not claiming my birth the way I knew I could. Yeah, yeah. And obviously it takes the time.
00;40;36;22 - 00;40;55;20
Unknown
It takes like there's no there's no wrong way to do it. I had the right idea with the, with what I was doing prenatally and like the practices and whatever, but I was, I was looking in the wrong place for that. It wasn't that I.
00;40;55;22 - 00;41;25;28
Unknown
Needed to not be in pain, but like by doing that, I was playing into the fear totally and not actually sitting with it and working with it. Right. And then what is your journey like from that birth into what you choose with your force? I got pregnant sooner than expected with the fourth, so I still had a baby.
00;41;25;29 - 00;42;00;11
Unknown
I mean, he was. How old is he? One. He was just one year old, maybe. Wow. And I assumed. I honestly assumed we were just going to hire the same midwife again, like, I. I just loved her. And still, I still hadn't put together the whole like that. That was too many people at my birth thing until I edited the video a year later and I was watching it.
00;42;00;11 - 00;42;06;14
Unknown
And this is crazy. That's funny.
00;42;06;17 - 00;42;34;10
Unknown
I was like, oh, this grossed out watching it like, oh, she's sitting there. And then, yeah, it took me a while, but I'm pregnant with baby number four and I'm talking to the midwife. And then and it's actually my husband who was like, why would we hire her again? Like, we can do this ourselves. And I don't want to pay the $8,000.
00;42;34;12 - 00;43;14;27
Unknown
And and so then it was like, they're in my lap like, oh, oh yeah, I, I can't choose something different. Like I had almost forgotten about that. And so then I kind of grappled with it a little bit and was like, yeah, I don't feel any resistance to doing it on our own. So I talked to the midwife about it a little bit, and I, I inquired about doing some hybrid hybrid care for a little bit.
00;43;15;01 - 00;43;52;17
Unknown
She was not down for that, which I respect. She didn't want to be involved at all. If I if I wasn't going to, like, do the whole thing, you maybe you but that's her. That's her choice and that's the path she wants to stay on. Totally. I, I would prefer that than a midwife pretending that she sure can serve me in full authenticity when she can't.
00;43;52;19 - 00;44;23;19
Unknown
And it didn't feel good having those conversations. Like I felt like, oh, she doesn't want to support me. But it was. It was good because it it led me to really choose. Yeah. The conditional circumstantial, you know, element of medical midwifery is so gross to me, you know, and it's it's such a fucking lie. Like it is so not with free.
00;44;23;20 - 00;44;49;05
Unknown
It is such smoke and mirrors and it's, it's representative of, you know, so many like flawed, faulty out of integrity relationships. You know that the world and culture promote. But I mean, you know, you know the other way of just like I'm with you no matter what, I'm all in and I and like women deserve that. You know, you deserve that.
00;44;49;05 - 00;45;29;22
Unknown
Mothers deserve that. Anyway. Keep going. Yeah. And that's how I show up for women. And that is the only authentic way to me. Worse. Yeah, the licensed midwifery thing, I, I kind of just see as like a mask for the same thing that's going on in hospitals. Yeah. And yeah, it was time to shed that mask because I remember texting the midwife like when I got a pregnancy test, I was like, look, we're doing.
00;45;29;25 - 00;45;46;02
Unknown
So I started having those conversations with her before I was like, even before I was even having morning sickness. It was early. Early and I.
00;45;46;04 - 00;46;20;11
Unknown
Oh, God. It was like confusing and weird to me because I wasn't even, like, fully jumping into free birth at that point of deciding not to hire her. So I, I was then like, oh, I'm really missing my homework, prenatal care. Because now if I want anything, I have to go to the hospital to get it. Like if I want to, a test or, or anything, like, I can't just have her do it in her nice posey office anymore.
00;46;20;13 - 00;46;50;12
Unknown
There's there's a lot of unraveling that I did in that, in that pregnancy, because I really loved the care I had all the time before. And I will say, like, I was lucky that I never had any real variations of normal in my pregnancies. Like I didn't have high blood pressure or any kind of bleeding or like. So the prenatal care for me was more just about like connecting with someone and having them feel my belly.
00;46;50;12 - 00;47;23;06
Unknown
And she was like, it wasn't. It was. No it wasn't. It was a connection. It's the attention. It's the it's the bringing baby into the room. Yeah. Of course. Carving out time away from my mothering my kids to, like, be with the baby. And so I was like, I was missing that. And thankfully, I had this community of like minded women that I could lean on more than I had in the past.
00;47;23;06 - 00;47;48;13
Unknown
And and so Kate, who actually shared her birth story on the podcast, I had met her in some kind of, retreat. And we had stayed connected because she lives about an hour or two away from me, and she ended up being like the closest thing to a birth keeper for me through that pregnancy. So I got to share this stuff with her.
00;47;48;13 - 00;48;28;23
Unknown
And I complained a lot about missing the hands on, like palpation and, and whatnot. And she helped me talk through fears and, and all the things that were coming up, the what ifs and like, am I safer having someone there? If that happens or this happened, then, doing, doing, having her was amazing because she didn't she wasn't in this medical position of diagnosing or, just pathology, anything like anything that I brought to the table.
00;48;28;24 - 00;49;11;27
Unknown
She, like, reflected back to me for me to work with. There was no saving me. There was no putting it on someone else. So I really appreciated her for that. And and then I also got Yolanda's book portal and I signed up for her class, her program, and that kind of changed everything for me in the mental space because I was I was ready, I was like ripe to ready and excited to face whatever was there for me.
00;49;12;00 - 00;49;40;18
Unknown
And and the program in her book is all about Joyce and and even these things that we may not think are our choice is ultimately something that we've contracted into. And there was so much about working with the sensations and fears and stories that come up and playing around with.
00;49;40;21 - 00;50;15;02
Unknown
Like, I will know when there's a real fear of something that is wrong, and then there's like this made up anxiety type of fear that can come from our whole history and stories about what we've made things mean. And I also think we're we're until we're not most women people are terrified to take responsibility for their life, to own their decisions, to stand in their choices.
00;50;15;02 - 00;50;49;14
Unknown
And I think that's usually really what it's about spiritually, you know, or on the, on the like, core psyche level. And then we use the what ifs and the, the these like random, bizarre, super rare things as the content, you know, but it is so intimidating until it's not too choose to practice self-responsibility, especially in one of the most taboo, culturally backwards arenas of a woman's life.
00;50;49;15 - 00;51;13;08
Unknown
You know, it's not like, I mean, there's so many, like, lighter ways to practice self-responsibility versus fucking free birth, which is like just out here on the edge, like with life and death and all of the cultural, you know, norms and, and every person's opinion and every family dynamic. I mean, it's just really big. It's really, really, really big.
00;51;13;08 - 00;51;16;10
Unknown
It's a very.
00;51;16;12 - 00;51;50;25
Unknown
Obviously that offers a huge catalyst of growth and consciousness raising dove. And also it's not really about the what ifs. It's about owning our decisions and the, the, the growth and terror in doing that. Yeah. Yeah. I couldn't have said it better. Yeah, exactly. And that was the practice of the pregnancy. Yeah. It was in all the big ways and the little ways.
00;51;50;27 - 00;52;15;10
Unknown
How am I choosing this? What am I choosing? Declaring that you. And by you, I mean literally any woman who does this like that, you have the nerve to trust yourself this much is also pretty fucking edgy, you know? And so any part of us that is insecure, which of course, exists for all, has to be contended with.
00;52;15;10 - 00;52;47;07
Unknown
Because when you make a choice like free birth, you're basically saying, I'm just going to trust all this stuff that's out there. It's like actually walk the walk, you know? And you, you're a good example of like, wow, you were a birth worker for so long. You're a mother of three. Like, there's you could have really just stayed comfortable in the like home birth medicalized, you know, container that most doulas and birth workers like stay in and hang out.
00;52;47;07 - 00;53;19;15
Unknown
And you went further into really walking this walk of. Yeah. You know. Yeah. Like like true congruency. But I think that's the other piece. It's not just fear and terror of taking responsibility. It's also that when we do that, there's a real declaration to our community that we are going to trust ourselves. And there is an implicit kind of like, how fucking dare you?
00;53;19;18 - 00;53;43;05
Unknown
How dare you go that far of trusting yourself and making your own decisions and taking that much responsibility? And then what if it doesn't work out? Oh my God. You know, and yeah, I think it's so interesting because the only way that we can ever arrive at that fully embodied state is to keep moving that needle, keep moving the needle, moving the needle.
00;53;43;11 - 00;54;23;15
Unknown
And it's intimidating. Yeah, yeah, I could I, I was comfortable in that place I was before, but it wasn't authentic. And that was the part that was like pulling at me more and more over time. That as comfortable as it was, as much as I could justify it, it felt, yeah, that there was this inauthenticity. And when I would be talking to doulas, I just felt like that, like, this is raw.
00;54;23;19 - 00;54;56;06
Unknown
Like I'm not even in that world. And like, I can't even see it the way that they see it anymore. I, I just yeah, I chose to follow what I know to be true. And, and I had pregnant friends throughout this process, in this fourth pregnancy who jumped on the portal bandwagon with me. And it was very clear to me.
00;54;56;08 - 00;55;11;23
Unknown
That they were using it the way that I had hypno birthing for my third birth. Like looking to cover something up to escape something to prevent something.
00;55;11;25 - 00;55;40;08
Unknown
And and I just knew when, when they were in labor, all of that fear was going to come right back up and they were going to look outside of themselves because they hadn't done any practice in declaring and choosing to own all of it, which is fine. Like that's what they needed to do. That's totally fine. But I, I didn't want to do that anymore.
00;55;40;10 - 00;55;57;10
Unknown
And I still had Peter's come up, but it was not something I needed to escape anymore. And my gosh, I loved so much.
00;55;57;12 - 00;56;44;01
Unknown
Labor started when my kids went to sleep, as usual, and the anxiety started coming back because it was almost more just a body thing than than in my head. And this time I felt that anxiety coming up, and I don't even think I named it this time. I lay there and I listened to Yolanda's tracks, or some found singing gold or something, and I just, I had this context in this pregnancy and birth of playfulness and like, just this invitation to experience whatever is there for me.
00;56;44;01 - 00;57;19;16
Unknown
And, and I lay there shaking and just feeling that upset, turning stomach. And I just let myself shake and jiggle and and I it occurred to me, oh my God, my body just needs to do this right now. Like this. This just there's something shifting and my body is burning the energy around. What a wonderful thing. And I let it move through that.
00;57;19;16 - 00;57;24;28
Unknown
And it subsided at some point. And.
00;57;25;00 - 00;58;05;03
Unknown
Then of course, I jumped back into my brain and was like, why isn't it progressing? No. Gosh, watching like my contractions are not getting close together. And I call my friends. I called Lori and called Kate and and there, of course, just like there's nothing to do. Get off the phone. You know, they let me spill it all out, and and after I got off the phone with them, I felt so much better because all I needed to do was just like, get that out.
00;58;05;03 - 00;58;37;20
Unknown
And. And then I sat on my floor on top of my cloth, waterproof pads and towels. Just had my playlist going in the dark, and my husband's taking a nap on the bed next to me. And I'm just. I'm just in it and feeling feeling the rhythm kind of get stronger and.
00;58;37;23 - 00;58;44;07
Unknown
Gosh, this labor felt so different because.
00;58;44;09 - 00;59;18;09
Unknown
I had just I had I was still present and I had practiced so much in that pregnancy, welcoming in whatever needs to be there, whatever is there, whatever is arising. And and I took one of Yolanda's mantras of saying, thank you, thank you. And it I just felt so in control, not of the labor at all, but in control of how I was showing up, how I was meeting the sensations, how.
00;59;18;12 - 00;59;28;14
Unknown
Yeah, just my relationship to it all, which is like not just for birth. That's like how we can live our lives, actually.
00;59;28;16 - 00;59;52;08
Unknown
And of course, it got like excruciating at some point. I remember trying to hold a comb. I'm like, yeah, people say, this is great. I'm going to try this thing. I'm squeezing it. And and I just like this. What was I doing this to myself? I'm just in more pain. And I throw the comb that, And I just.
00;59;52;08 - 00;59;58;28
Unknown
I just needed to moan and yell and move and.
00;59;59;01 - 01;00;24;20
Unknown
Pee on my waterproof thing and tell my husband to bring me a new one. And that that labor. I did not get up and go anywhere. I just stayed right there and at the foot of my bed and I. Kate was on her way after we chatted on the phone, and I remember she came up the stairs and my door was cracked open and I could see her out there.
01;00;24;20 - 01;00;47;09
Unknown
And I remember thinking, I just want her to come in here like I'm going to be okay once she's in here. This moment of like needing to be saved. And she wouldn't come in. She was out there and I it looked like she was like, praying or something. She was like down on the carpet. And I think she was just, like, grounding herself and, maybe saying a little prayer for us, I don't know.
01;00;47;09 - 01;01;17;29
Unknown
And when she finally did come in. She was, you know, very quiet and put her stuff aside and just sat next to me and, and and then I didn't need any of these. Or she may have offered me a little coconut water or something. And then I'm doing my thing. I have the biggest inflation ever. My water pops, and I'm like, that felt so good to just get that pressure off.
01;01;18;02 - 01;01;31;29
Unknown
And then I knew my body was going to start pushing after that. And it did. And so I go into just fetal ejection reflex, I guess. And.
01;01;32;01 - 01;01;46;09
Unknown
My body is bringing this baby lower. Oh, also, this is the first baby. I didn't find out the sex beforehand. So that was really exciting to have that surprise. And
01;01;46;12 - 01;02;14;21
Unknown
Yeah, she was coming down. Coming through. I, I discovered in my second birth a mantra that it just came to me. So as her head was coming and stretching my tissues, I was saying to myself and to her, nice and slow, nice and slow, because I don't want to tear. And I could easily have just pushed through because it's such an intense feeling.
01;02;14;21 - 01;02;38;29
Unknown
But I, I really tried to just, like, soften and let it be there and not push nice and slow. And I remember she lit a candle behind me, and within a minute baby came out and my husband caught her and.
01;02;39;01 - 01;03;04;14
Unknown
So much relief and just magic in the air. And he has her through my legs. I turned over and instantly he announces, it's a girl like fuck. I wanted to look. That was the one thing I didn't talk to him about beforehand, I guess. But I'm like, I need to check for myself and make sure, yeah, it was a girl.
01;03;04;14 - 01;03;16;19
Unknown
We all thought it was going to be a girl. And, and and nobody did anything under that. It was just quiet and.
01;03;16;21 - 01;03;52;02
Unknown
Perfect. And she cried and and. Yeah. Kate just, like, stood back and maybe took a few pictures. And then she left the room. She was gone. And we just sat there and and had our time. And then I fell to gush of blood. And I, I think the one thing I had the most fear about leading up to this was birthing the placenta by myself, which ended up being my absolute favorite part of the whole birth.
01;03;52;05 - 01;04;02;00
Unknown
I mean, just being able to own that experience was so cool and so empowering and.
01;04;02;03 - 01;04;39;15
Unknown
I handed the baby to my husband. He's sitting right next to me, and I have a bowl nearby. Kate hands me the bowl and I get on my knees and I'm kind of upright on my knees, and I start feeling for the cord and really slippery. So she hands me one of my shirts that I threw off in labor, and I wrapped the shirt around the cord and give a little tug and kind of a little push around, just kind of release a feeling of releasing.
01;04;39;15 - 01;05;10;08
Unknown
And the placenta comes right out into the bowl. And I'm just in awe and I, I. The first thing I had to do was touch it. I just I looked at it and I put my hands around it and it was warm and just beautiful, and I, I just felt so in my body and powerful. Yeah. There's nothing there's nothing like birthing your own placenta.
01;05;10;10 - 01;05;24;17
Unknown
That was like the last, last piece for me is like, really claiming it all. And yeah, we got tucked into bed and.
01;05;24;19 - 01;05;59;16
Unknown
Tried cord burning for the first time, which was really smelly. And my husband was like, let's never do that again. Kate made us some yummy food and she cleaned up and like that. It was just simple and normal and there is nothing to do. Nobody wants to know that. Then we. And it didn't feel like there was anything to do.
01;05;59;17 - 01;06;29;13
Unknown
Like, I was tuned in with my baby and we didn't need to know how much she weighed right away or anything like that. Yeah, it was just it was hours. It was sacred. It was, having a friend there was sweet, and she knew exactly how to hold the space, and.
01;06;29;16 - 01;07;17;18
Unknown
It was felt so simple and perfect. I don't even know what else to say about it. Yeah, I mean, if only. Right. If we could if we could have a culture where we let birth be simple again like that, how different things would be. That's that's something that that I try to speak to more with all of the people in my life who want to talk about how they were saved by whatever medical intervention or, yeah, whatever it is that they think, I just want to communicate that it really can be so simple.
01;07;17;21 - 01;07;51;03
Unknown
Well, people are very attached to their stories and diagnoses and victimhood and, you know, they they, you know, part of part of believing your victim is it feels unique, right. So that's like so prevalent in obstetrical births. Of course, that you feel unique about why you needed the C-section or why your baby needed the NICU. It feels, it feels something that it's not, you know, which is the great lie.
01;07;51;03 - 01;08;07;00
Unknown
It's not unique at all. This is the assembly line, but the courage it takes to question the story, to get outside of that paradigm is pretty big.
01;08;07;02 - 01;08;16;06
Unknown
Well, I hope that that is. I love that Kate was there, and it sounds like such a perfect burst.
01;08;16;08 - 01;08;55;15
Unknown
I'm almost like, maybe I shouldn't have another baby because that was so perfect. Upper limit problem. There's more work to do here. Always always. Always. Right? Awesome. Well, thank you so much for your time and your stories. Yeah, thanks for having me. I hope that people can hear my stories and know that it doesn't have to take some crazy, horrible thing happening to you to choose to do it on your own, to claim your story, to claim your birth and clean your life.
01;08;55;18 - 01;09;10;20
Unknown
You can do it at any time. And I appreciate how in your story, when you know when your husband brought up the free birthing.
01;09;10;23 - 01;09;34;20
Unknown
You, you I mean, you were pretty primed, you know, you were pretty primed for that to be a yes. And when you flushed it out with your midwife, you know, you just like, didn't let your attachment and your fears and comfort direct this birth. And you did the work and you went into it and you followed your authentic.
01;09;34;21 - 01;10;03;28
Unknown
Yes. And like it's no surprise that you then go on to have this beautiful birth. Yeah. I mean, it was it was messy and confusing and like, if you're committed to to being 100% responsible, it will unravel itself. That's what happened. Even curious, you know, I think I don't even think most people know what 100% committed even means.
01;10;04;00 - 01;10;17;08
Unknown
Like, you got to just get curious first and you will find the way. Well thank you girlfriend. So nice to connect. Thanks for having me.
01;10;17;10 - 01;10;41;22
Unknown
All right, women, I hope you enjoyed the show today. You can support this podcast by donating to it through the link in the show notes below. And of course leaving an awesome review on whatever platform you listen on. The more reviews, the more visibility the show gets. So let's spread the good word of free birth. Don't forget, you can watch all of my podcast interviews on YouTube and see the women as they tell their birth and power stories.
01;10;41;22 - 01;11;02;26
Unknown
And you will also find our viral free worth collection of epic Raw Birth videos on our YouTube channel. So make sure you're subscribed. We always have a lot going on at Free Birth Society, and you can find out about all of it at Free Birth Society. And I am at Free Birth Society on Instagram. Please opt in to my newsletter below so that you don't miss a thing.
01;11;02;27 - 01;11;28;23
Unknown
We offer courses on free birth, sovereign birth work as well as one on one coaching women's retreats so much. Our exclusive private vetted membership. The Lighthouse is definitely something to check out. If you were looking for a community of wise sisters to get guidance from and to meet in real life. Together we rise. Sisters. We must speak our stories fully, claim our lives, and support one another.
01;11;28;24 - 01;11;34;25
Unknown
This is the living revolution and I am so grateful to be in it with all of you. Till next time.
