00;00;01;02 - 00;00;42;25
Unknown
Highwomen. Before we dive in today, I need to name something important. This episode, along with all episodes that you will hear until our winter break in mid-December, was recorded before my birth prior to mid-August. Since then, our family has walked through the unimaginable. Our son was stillborn and we are in deep mourning as the shows air, you'll hear and see me pregnant, which now feels incredibly painful and weird given that you are holding the sacred knowledge of what came after.
00;00;42;27 - 00;01;15;05
Unknown
So please forgive the dissonance. These stories still deserve to be shared and heard. We welcome your prayers, your loving thoughts, and your support as we navigate this spiral of such deep grief. I hope you find resonance and nourishment in this conversation today. Thank you. Women, if you are ready to take full responsibility for your birth and you're looking for a clear, comprehensive, step by step guide to doing it outside the system, this is it.
00;01;15;05 - 00;01;36;08
Unknown
The Complete Guide to Free Birth is our flagship best selling course, and it has helped thousands of women and families around the world prepare for sovereign, undisturbed berths at home on their own terms. This is the integration of theory and lived wisdom designed to prepare your body, your psyche, your partner and your space for a truly powerful birth.
00;01;36;09 - 00;01;56;09
Unknown
We cover everything from physiology to wild pregnancy, how to rethink complications, what to do postpartum, and everything in between. You don't need to become a midwife. You don't need to be licensed. You just need to be ready to remember what you already know in this course will walk you through every step. If you're feeling the call, trust it.
00;01;56;10 - 00;01;59;15
Unknown
Go to Free city.
00;01;59;17 - 00;02;28;00
Unknown
To to learn more and register today. Your birth, your way in your power. Welcome to Free Birth society. I'm Emilee Saldaya, and this is where we break the spell of medicalized birth. Remember what's been forgotten and rise together into our birthright to live, birth and mother as sovereign women. All right, Ashley. Thank you. Emilee, I'm so excited to be chatting with you today.
00;02;28;03 - 00;02;44;11
Unknown
Yeah, it's good to have you here. It's good to see your smiling face again. I got to meet you officially at MRF this summer. I know you also took RPC, right? Yes. Yeah, yeah. Awesome program. Yeah.
00;02;44;13 - 00;03;11;18
Unknown
This summer, the my brain just went, what's it called? MRF. Thank you. I'm like, it's not my it's not everyone. That was so just like hugely integrating all of this transformation. It was really incredible for me. God it was so fun. It really was fun. It was such a great work. Yeah, yeah. You definitely like you were living it up.
00;03;11;23 - 00;03;37;22
Unknown
And did you, did you come with any of your kids? I did not. Well, they all stayed home with their daddy. So how many kids do you have? I have none. My oldest is 19 and my youngest is 16 months. Okay. And they all reach you to three years? Yeah. No multiples. All single things. Yeah. They all came out of your body.
00;03;37;22 - 00;03;59;09
Unknown
All came out of my body. Yeah. Cool. Okay. Awesome. So we've got a we've got a big story ahead of us, so I'm just going to pass it to you, like what happened, you know, eight, 19, 20 years ago. Who are you? What is it like to have have that first child and how does that shape you into being a three now three time free person?
00;03;59;09 - 00;04;22;26
Unknown
Mom. So I was 22 when my first was born and my lawn had had a baby. I say later in life she was in her mid 30s. I was born when she was a teenager, my sister was born when she was 20 and then later, you know, 35, and she had had her unmedicated like a hospital birth, all of that.
00;04;23;03 - 00;04;52;00
Unknown
And it clicked something in my brain. And when I went into that first pregnancy, I knew that I did not want to have enough. I didn't want that kind of birth. This was something that I wanted for myself. I wanted an unmedicated natural birth. I thought I would love to do a home birth, but like a lot of first time moms, I thought maybe I should just see how this goes the first time around before I do it at home.
00;04;52;02 - 00;05;19;28
Unknown
And I had a beautiful, beautiful, unmedicated, very powerful birth. Of course, my perspective on it has shifted a lot over the last 20 years. Yeah, and I don't necessarily feel the same way about it now that I did then, but at the time, it just filled me with this great sense of confidence that, yeah, I can absolutely give birth to my baby without needing to numb out my body or my mind.
00;05;19;28 - 00;05;46;08
Unknown
And it was a really powerful, transformative thing for me. I went on to have another unmedicated hospital birth, and then I had my first home birth with midwives in attendance. And that was another really big shift for me, like proving powerfully, like, oh yeah, I can totally safely do this at home. I can feel good about it. My husband was totally on board.
00;05;46;08 - 00;06;10;03
Unknown
I know that in that birth, he would tell you that the midwives gave him confidence that things would be safe. And of course, his perspective has shifted a lot too, especially since our last three were free births. But then I got kind of a monkey wrench in my birth story in my art, and my fourth baby was born by cesarean.
00;06;10;03 - 00;06;49;06
Unknown
I had no yes, I had a partial placenta so that I had two very large bleeds. And with the second one she was born by cesarean. That night. I was 37 weeks. What do you think about that now, knowing so much more partial version and all that, I often wonder. So I know from speaking to the obstetrician afterwards that it wasn't just low lying like it was partial covering, but I often wonder if her height had come down more.
00;06;49;10 - 00;07;27;00
Unknown
Would it have applied enough pressure to stem any bleeding from that? Had that particular lobe of the placenta bled out a little bit more with the rest have been sufficient? And then her, safe to keep her alive. And but of course, I'll never know. I'll never know the answer to that, but I and I can't even say with integrity, like, I know for sure now that I would choose a different path, but I would absolutely question it more than I did at the time.
00;07;27;03 - 00;07;48;02
Unknown
I would absolutely be a bigger consideration. Wow. That's crazy. Yeah, yeah, it was definitely the pregnancy was actually the traumatic part. Like the society and birth for me was it was all just very matter of fact. Like I believe at the time, this is what needs to be done. Yeah. Here it was pretty by the book. My recovery was by the book.
00;07;48;04 - 00;08;10;03
Unknown
But the bleeding and all of that during the pregnancy and the unknown was what would actually really scary. And worrying about the baby. Oh, yeah. Exactly, exactly. There is a, you know, just sitting there covered in blood, like, frankly. And my hands on my belly, just like, please move, please move, please move. You know, that's a scary place to be.
00;08;10;06 - 00;08;31;13
Unknown
And she's a healthy, thriving, beautiful 13 year old girl now. And so I can look back at it with a different view and perspective. But yeah, that was a big like fork in the road. Right. And you would think that maybe, just maybe, I would have shifted into a different choice for my next couple of babies. But I think I had a lot of fear.
00;08;31;16 - 00;08;58;17
Unknown
It was unaddressed. I did go on to have two hospital unmedicated backs, but the first one was actually the first time that I would say that I had had a traumatic birth experience, because the midwife who attended that birth was truly abusive to me and my baby. Why did you go back into the hospital for the vacs, any particular?
00;08;58;17 - 00;09;24;14
Unknown
It was the fear. It was the fear of what if this happens again? And that was just something that I was not in a place to address at the time. I wasn't ready to face that and to step into that full ownership of the whole process. That was something that took me time to come to. So your was the one that started that really felt like clear abuse from the midwives?
00;09;24;15 - 00;09;47;21
Unknown
Yes. Yeah. It's head was born and she reached into my body and pulled him out by his shoulders. That was the first time I'd ever torn during birth. I mean, I had a 9 pound baby born with this fist by his head and didn't have any tearing, but she forcibly removed him from my body and was very, very unkind to me.
00;09;47;24 - 00;10;07;05
Unknown
And to him. That was that is not a gentle way to bring a child into the world. And then, of course, I went back for the next baby, and I still I still look back at myself and say, what? What were you thinking? Why did you put yourself back? What were you thinking?
00;10;07;08 - 00;10;44;10
Unknown
I think, well, part of it was that my husband still had a lot of fear around being at home without a midwife, and we were in North Carolina, and it's, you know, you can't have a midwife legally tender. And financially we felt like we couldn't afford and under the table midwife. And he wasn't on board yet with the idea of free birth, though, it was definitely something that I had floated to him multiple times, and I didn't feel like I was in a place that I wanted to push, that my next babies, you know, baby number six.
00;10;44;17 - 00;11;07;27
Unknown
Her birth was actually really quite lovely. The midwife who attended was crying then. And, you know, she did her job according to the hospital policies. But she was me and good to me into my baby. And, I still walked away from that experience going, I don't want to do this again. Never again. I don't want to get in the car and go to the hospital to give birth to my baby.
00;11;07;28 - 00;11;31;17
Unknown
I just want to have my baby. And so when we got pregnant with our seventh, I was praying about what to do because I was already well into my first trimester. I hadn't gone to see any medical professionals. I didn't want to, and my husband was expressing his concerns to me. You know, safety concerns, whatever that means.
00;11;31;17 - 00;11;50;01
Unknown
And I had been praying about it, and I was out running my mom errands all on my own. And I said, you know, God, I just I really need some sort of, like, confidence giving side. And the Scripture came to me just like that. That was you've not been given the spirit of fear, but a power, love and sound mind.
00;11;50;02 - 00;12;13;25
Unknown
And I said, okay, I've not been given a spirit of fear. I can I can move past that fear. I have a sound mind, like I'm perfectly capable and wise of knowing what's best for me and my baby. And I went to my husband and I said, Peter, I'm not asking you to trust that everything's going to be okay, whatever that means.
00;12;13;25 - 00;12;44;00
Unknown
I'm asking you to trust me, to trust that I love this baby and care about this baby and myself and our our well-being, more than any doctor or midwife in this world is ever going to care. And I'm asking you to just trust me. And he said, of course, of course I trust you. And so he entered into that mindset of, okay, we're having this baby at home, just you and I and the kids downstairs.
00;12;44;00 - 00;13;13;03
Unknown
And it was the most peaceful, joyful, exciting pregnancy since my first. You know, when everything is so exciting and new. It was like a it was like the first baby all over again because it was all me now. It was all my own wisdom, my own inner knowing. Like checking in with myself, checking in with my baby, and just quietly preparing to give birth.
00;13;13;06 - 00;13;36;25
Unknown
How did you even hear about this option? How did that even come into your awareness? I actually had a friend, an online friend, way back in the day. I was in some of those natural parenting forums and boards online, and she went in France and she had had her twin boys at home with nobody else, and she had just said, yeah, I'm just going to have an unassisted birth.
00;13;36;25 - 00;14;09;20
Unknown
And she did, and it was fantastic. And I was like, that's yeah, that's what I want. And there was something that I had learned about myself, and that was that. When I had someone who I perceived as an authority over me in my birth space, even the most lovely home birth midwives like I had with my third baby, I found myself going into like a fun response, like just kind of shrinking into myself and not fully owning what was going on around me and not being able to speak for myself or stand up for myself.
00;14;09;20 - 00;14;23;28
Unknown
And I wanted to burst my baby from a place of authority in myself, and not trusting in what somebody else was saying was good or bad or okay or not.
00;14;24;01 - 00;14;40;14
Unknown
So he was born at home in the water. I had a big old garden tub. It was amazing. It was the best and it was so joyful. It was a fast labor, I think maybe like three hours until she was born and she came out and I was just laughing and I was like, we did it. We did it.
00;14;40;15 - 00;14;58;14
Unknown
Like, look at us. We we did it. I was like, you're here. You're healthy and well and alive and safe and I'm good. Of course we did it. And how does that how does that change you and shift your marriage and your family?
00;14;58;17 - 00;15;27;03
Unknown
I developed so much more trust in my own intuition. And it's my own inner knowing and the confidence that I then felt, even just as a woman, just as a woman existing in this world was just so amplified. I think my husband saw me in a different way, you know, to always appreciated the power of of what it was for me to, like, be bringing our children into the world.
00;15;27;06 - 00;15;52;24
Unknown
But yeah, it's it's a different thing standing. And I'm, I'm a hands off person. I'll talk to me. Don't touch me. Just let me go inward and bring my baby into this world. And so he was just always close, just nearby. And he just stood in the bathroom and took a few pictures and watched me bring our baby into the world.
00;15;52;24 - 00;16;28;26
Unknown
And I think that that was a pretty powerful moment for him to, to to like, witness in a way without any other, its appearance or anyone telling him, okay, dad, here's what you'll get to do now. He just got to stand there and be like the protector and holder of our space. I mean, it's a pretty big thermostat increase, you know, from verse four, it's a pretty big, like, I was thinking about how you said with your first birth, you know, you didn't, like, know any better.
00;16;28;26 - 00;16;53;18
Unknown
You might you might think about it a bit differently now, but at that time it really felt like you were connected to your power and you felt really good about your birth. And I think that's that's a really interesting aspect of what we're maybe this is the wrong phrase, but like what we're up against in, you know, in birth work and there's nothing wrong with it.
00;16;53;18 - 00;17;24;12
Unknown
It's just it that just reveals a low thermostat setting of how good it can be, which of course, like all of us have that entail we don't because of the culture worn into and the stories of our mothers. And, you know, everything we've ever seen on TV and, and all of that. And so that's an interesting thing that comes up a lot, I'm sure, in your work as well of, you know, there's a real what is the right word?
00;17;24;13 - 00;17;54;08
Unknown
I mean, one way it plays out is real defensiveness of women's, you know, births, but also just, like, good enough. Wow. That's you know, that's a really great way to describe it. Like, it was good enough. Yeah. Instead of saying, how good can it be? It's this is as good as it is and it's just an acceptance of the status quo because, well, at least they didn't do this to me, and at least they exist that to me.
00;17;54;09 - 00;18;16;26
Unknown
And so I didn't come away with physical or mental scars. So it's, it's fair to how much worse, you know, I mean, we do this with all sorts of stuff. We, we with sex, we do this with partners. You know, I hear women complain all the time about their partners and then be like, well, you know, at least he makes money, or at least he doesn't abuse me.
00;18;16;26 - 00;18;34;09
Unknown
It's like, oh my God. Yeah, that's such a low bar. I say all the time, why? Why would you choose to be someone who wasn't like, fully be with them if they're not fully in it with you? I had people say, oh, you, you leave your nine children for a week to go to MRF. Of course I did.
00;18;34;13 - 00;18;56;10
Unknown
Of course I did. I married a very capable, competent, good man who is my. Why would I have nine children with somebody who I didn't trust to be with them for a week while I'm not? And yeah, it is. It's a it's not just a good enough. It's like good like really good. It is a good point. Yeah.
00;18;56;11 - 00;19;27;08
Unknown
The, the especially when you have a lot of kids, the, the assumption around being with them all the time and, and the what is the right word. Yeah, I've seen that with other moms with lots of children. There's a like a real like no one blinks and I, if you leave like your two kids, you're the weekend I sometimes I've actually had the experience when people are like, oh is Peter staying with the kids this weekend?
00;19;27;09 - 00;19;58;26
Unknown
I mean I see okay. She. Does he need anything? Yeah. Nobody asks me that. Nobody. Right. I actually think that it's really just this assumption that men are incapable. And I mean, of course some of them are and just contribute to this ideology by not holding them to a higher standard. And most of the time, people are going to rise to the standard which you set for them for set a high standard.
00;19;58;28 - 00;20;29;24
Unknown
I mean, I think that really people don't know how like, I mean, it's not an excuse. You learn how. Okay. So then eighth baby, eighth baby. Now it's like we're a free birthing family. Duh. Right. Yeah. Exactly that. Her birth was her fourth was great. Her pregnancy the. I had a lot of anxiety during her pregnancy. I was just dealing with a different phase of, you know, self-healing and growth and all of that.
00;20;29;25 - 00;20;51;05
Unknown
But her birth was fantastic. It was another quick one. I had spent the morning out in my garden weeding and watering and fertilizing, and I sat down on my bench. And, you know, the shift in your body, it's not a it's not a contraction. It's not a sensation like that. There's just an internal shift. And I went, oh, okay.
00;20;51;06 - 00;21;15;22
Unknown
Well, today is the day when inside laid down, took a little nap and she was born in the early afternoon. I always laugh when I think about her birth because I had such a fight with myself. We had moved to a different house and we had this tiny little 1980s bathtub. It was just not large enough for a fully pregnant woman, at least, and not in a way that I wanted it to be.
00;21;15;22 - 00;21;38;14
Unknown
But I was in the tub and I could feel her moving down and the, you know, the pushing sensations were getting stronger. And I was like, this is going to be so uncomfortable if I tried to give birth to this baby in this bathtub. But I fought with myself for a solid three contractions before I gave up and said, oh, why, Peter, would you please throw some towels down on the floor and crawled out?
00;21;38;14 - 00;21;58;17
Unknown
And she was born at two contractions on the floor. I just really wanted another water birth. Couldn't have it, but that was okay. Why did you want a water birth? I just really enjoyed it with with the two that I had had before. My first home birth was a water birth, and my seventh baby was born in my big tub.
00;21;58;17 - 00;22;39;06
Unknown
And I find that it really does is some of the ring of fire sensation, pressure and burning it, crowning and things like that. I find it to be a relaxing experience, like just more, more comfort for myself. Yeah, I've only had two kids, but I'm on the precipice of having my third. And I've been thinking about water because with my first two, I really felt quite caged in the water low, and I didn't ever stay in the water long enough to get to the point where the head was coming out to feel what you're talking about.
00;22;39;11 - 00;23;00;11
Unknown
So yeah, I was thinking about it at this time, like, oh, I wonder if I can remember to try it, but I make up that. I remember just feeling not claustrophobic. That's too dramatic. But just like I couldn't, I don't know, I couldn't move the way I wanted to, but everywhere is different. So I'm going to give you.
00;23;00;12 - 00;23;24;03
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. And sometimes some people just prefer feeling like fully grounded. Right. I know it hurts. Well, yeah, you're not wrong. There's definitely that. But since I was actually watching back the video of her birth and laughing at myself because I was just, I was literally just saying, oh, oh, yeah, oh, yeah. Like as she was. Yeah. Like it was just like, that's the best word.
00;23;24;04 - 00;23;51;26
Unknown
Like it's a burning sensation and it's not comfortable. I wouldn't, I wouldn't describe my births and labors as like overly painful. Like for me that experience has never been like, oh my God, this hurts. I'm dying. Get me away from this pain. It's just more like, oh my God, this is really, really intense and uncomfortable. That's uncomfortable. That's been my experience.
00;23;52;00 - 00;24;22;28
Unknown
Well, until my last birth. So I read Yolanda's book. I read portal during my pregnancy with my last baby. And while I will say I don't think I was able to get to the place of like a truly blissful birth, my labor with her was so, so easy right up until the last hour. I laid in bed and basically slept for seven eight hours worth of sensations, just like off and on.
00;24;22;28 - 00;24;42;05
Unknown
I think to what if you on the meditations on my just laid next to my head and I was going in and out and just and till I fully woke up because I had a sensation that I recognized as her shifting gown. And I was like, my waters are about to release, I'm going to go sit on the toilet.
00;24;42;10 - 00;25;12;18
Unknown
And I did. And then the next, the next contraction, my water release. But her birth was actually really interesting, because I had been thinking about the idea of what it would be like if she were born in a less than optimal position, whatever optimal means, and I started having pushing sensations. But after my water to released and after about 15 minutes, I was like, this feels like it's taking a really long time.
00;25;12;21 - 00;25;40;15
Unknown
It's, you know, after so many babies, I yeah, you know, for me, my pushing has only been 15 minutes tops. By the time I get to that stage, I was like, why is this taking so long? And so I got down on my hands and knees on the floor, and I was hands and knees, and I was watching my mom up in the air and sitting back on my on my heels and sitting up straight and just trying to move my body in a way that I felt like would get her down.
00;25;40;17 - 00;26;10;16
Unknown
And I pushed with her for a solid hour, which, all things considered, isn't necessarily a long time. It just felt like a long time for me because my prior births. I mean, she was actually born face up so posterior or whatever, but she had molding, right? Like her hairline by her forehead. And I thought that that was really, really interesting that.
00;26;10;18 - 00;26;36;16
Unknown
It was not quite a face first presentation, but like a horrid ish presentation. And I knew from my experience in the past with the studying and learning about birth, that I've done, that had I been in a situation where I had allowed someone to put their hand in my vagina to see what position my baby was in, they very likely would have said, oh, this is a forehead presentation.
00;26;36;16 - 00;27;01;24
Unknown
She can't be born safely this way. And they probably would have wanted to try to turn her or to keep me open again. And so that was a really interesting experience for me to think about how because I chose to trust what my body and my baby were capable of doing, they did something that somebody else probably would have told me wasn't safer, a good idea, or even possible.
00;27;01;26 - 00;27;25;25
Unknown
And it was, well, that wasn't the first time. I mean, even just having, you know, a bunch of babies on your own at home. Yeah, they would have found something in there. Oh, yeah. For sure. The risk of hemorrhage, you're, you know, you've had so many babies, you. Of course you're going to hemorrhage. I've never once had a postpartum hemorrhage.
00;27;25;28 - 00;27;47;00
Unknown
I did have a really interesting experience with my first free birth. And I feel like this is just so much proof of how oftentimes, our thoughts and our beliefs can create our reality. One thing that was I was really stuck on was, what happens if the placenta doesn't come? What do I do if the placenta isn't releasing properly?
00;27;47;02 - 00;28;08;21
Unknown
It's taking a long time to come out. And for some reason I was really stuck on this and maybe I was stuck on it because it was going to happen. Or maybe it happened because I was stuck on this, this train of thought. But it took three hours for her placenta to come. She was born and I bled maybe a little bit more than anyone else would become full with.
00;28;08;21 - 00;28;33;09
Unknown
But knowing that true hemorrhage is a physiological state and not an amount of bleeding, I felt fine. And so I just knew that I needed to get to a place where I was actually ready to release the placenta, and and then it came whole and perfect. And all was well with the world.
00;28;33;11 - 00;29;15;15
Unknown
Down. So what? Talk to me about your kids involvement in the whole scene. If anything, how do you, like let them what's what's the deal? I prefer to be alone in my space. I know that I went back and forth quite a bit with with this last, with my ninth baby, my oldest teenage daughter maybe wanted to be there, but it was middle of the night, we hours of the morning, and it just didn't really cross my mind to like, go or have Peter go and get her.
00;29;15;18 - 00;29;35;23
Unknown
But I'm very much I just want to go internal. In fact, I'm happy to have my husband in the space, like supporting me. Just don't talk to me. Don't touch me. And I would probably be totally fine if you just put me in a dark room by myself. Yeah. Give birth. I'd never really cared for having my younger kids around.
00;29;35;24 - 00;30;03;27
Unknown
It's. It's a distraction for me in a way that doesn't feel like a good distraction. It wouldn't be a distraction from the discomfort or the work of labor and birth. It would have been a distraction from my ability to go in inward that I prefer to in order to bring my babies. So they're around. They're called when my knife baby was born, the youngest at the time, our baby number eight.
00;30;03;28 - 00;30;24;02
Unknown
She did wander into the bathroom. And so Peter was holding her, and I was pretty loud, which she still talks about. What made you remember when Daisy was coming out of your butt and which, you know, four year old language. So you were yelling a lot. Why were you yelling so much? Well, it was a lot of work.
00;30;24;04 - 00;30;34;14
Unknown
It was really a lot of work pushing that that baby up. So she was around. I actually, I feel like maybe,
00;30;34;17 - 00;31;21;14
Unknown
My toddler at the time when Ruby was born might have wandered into the bathroom as well, but I don't have, like, vivid memory of it because I was I was not here. I was on this earthly plane while I was, you know, giving birth. It makes it makes me wonder how many women would really choose to have their children around once they let go of, you know, like the heroic agenda to, like, teach their kids and show kids like, there's such a witch, you know, I mean, I understand the motivation, especially if you have birth trauma to rewrite the story and, and make up that it can be done with your kid and it needs
00;31;21;14 - 00;31;44;24
Unknown
to. You know, I think a lot of moms think that the kid needs to see the baby come out of the vagina versus what I would say is like, they can't miss it. Like if they're in, if they live in your family, if they see you pregnant, if they know you birth at home, if they see you postpartum, like it's the same thing they don't need.
00;31;45;00 - 00;32;12;04
Unknown
I don't think they need some specific proof for memory that the baby came out of your vagina. You know, if it happens that way, whatever. But it just seems like a lot of, a lot of women are motivated out of guilt of how the older kids births went well, that they really believe. And maybe they're right. Like, what do I know?
00;32;12;07 - 00;32;38;25
Unknown
That's not my experience. And I've only had two kids, so I'm very, very inexperienced. You know, compared to someone with five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten kids. I know with my the one birth I had where I already had a kid, I needed her away from me, like take. I was too maxed. I couldn't like, take responsibility for caring about anyone else's energy or other.
00;32;38;25 - 00;33;06;16
Unknown
So it's nearly impossible to turn the switch, right? Can't really just turn it off and say, oh, well, you can be in this space, but I'm not somehow going to be thinking about you or bring about whether or not. But okay. But I also know it is true, like I know and believe plenty of mothers that I've either personally seen or they've told me that they've loved having their children around, which I can't yet relate to.
00;33;06;16 - 00;33;40;03
Unknown
But of course, there's like many ways to to slice it. Yeah, yeah, on in their own perspectives and all of that. I found it funny that you mentioned though, like as a learning experience. Right? Yeah. The kids this I actually had that. And honestly, I think I could call it like it's almost like a savior complex with some of my prior births in wanting to prove you can have a baby without medication in your spine.
00;33;40;05 - 00;34;08;06
Unknown
I had so many people in the room when my first few babies were born. So many people, moms, mother in law's sisters, friends that like six superfluous people because I felt like I needed to prove to them that this was possible, that this could be done. And also like, well, my mom in the room, then maybe my mother in law's feelings would be hurt if I don't know, in the room.
00;34;08;09 - 00;34;30;03
Unknown
Yeah, it was a it was definitely a huge shift when I went from, well, it's okay if these people are here because this is actually really good for them to see, like how it can be to I'll just tell them how it can be later. They don't need to actually witness my baby being born to know that birth can be something really powerful and transformative.
00;34;30;03 - 00;34;51;14
Unknown
I think I definitely have a little bit of let me prove you wrong, because I love my mother in law dearly. But when I had mentioned that I wanted to have my first baby without an epidural, I didn't want any medication. I wanted a natural birth. She had made a joke and comment about me wanting to experience the full effect of the curse.
00;34;51;16 - 00;35;15;11
Unknown
So like the curse on Eve that you will experience pain in childbirth, which was so funny to me because she actually had all for her children without epidurals. So it was a very I think that my 22 year old self really just needed the proof for that. I was tough and I could do this. A lot of women do that, whether they're conscious of it or not.
00;35;15;12 - 00;35;36;13
Unknown
A lot. I had a dollar for how many women I have talked out of allowing a lot of people at their births. So I'd have a lot of dollars, you know. But yeah, I think it is very motivating. I also think is the first time mom, you have no effing clue for the most part. Yeah. What's your about to do?
00;35;36;15 - 00;36;02;10
Unknown
I had I mean, I had with my first, if you want to call it a textbook birth. Like these are the stages, the stages of labor, right. These are the emotional signposts. I had read one of the Bradley method books, or something like it was by the book eight hours. Like everything happening, like according to what a textbook might say is an ideal first.
00;36;02;15 - 00;36;31;00
Unknown
And my waters release while is standing in the shower in the in the hospital and, I maybe young nurse cry because she had never seen a woman give birth without medication before, and it was emotionally overwhelming to her. Yeah. It was a very interesting experience as a first time mom, to have all of that happening and then to have my my next birth be one where they said, you better get quickly.
00;36;31;00 - 00;36;51;10
Unknown
Your last birth was really fast. You're going to want to come in right away, all of these things, and then to have it take, you know, 21 hours and like five hours of transition and 45 minutes of pushing for this, this big boy that I had, it was just proof that birth is never what you think or expect it's going to be.
00;36;51;12 - 00;37;14;15
Unknown
That's just going to be what it is, right? Yeah. That's where I'd like to go next. As a mother of nine children was such a, such a diverse, you know, like scope of, of experience. And with me on the precipice of my third, I would like I would like some advice.
00;37;14;17 - 00;37;47;10
Unknown
That the third baby is the wild card and but every birth is a wild card. That's a disturbing birth is A1I want to know. Like, what have you looking back? Like, what have you learned when it's like game time or like close to game time of like what helps you and what has yeah. Helped you move the needle because I had a very, very hard time last time I didn't I didn't really.
00;37;47;13 - 00;38;15;09
Unknown
Once I finally surrendered, it was out of like just total decimation and and like, just kill me. I don't even care. Just take me. God. Just like, oh, my God, I'm so inside out, you know? Which is great. Like, that's a good place to hit and lots of lessons there. But yeah, I specifically wondering about any, any tips or support pieces around just like calling in that.
00;38;15;10 - 00;38;43;27
Unknown
Yes. You know, and and letting it all be there. And like intellectually I can go there, but I haven't I haven't gone there in in birth yet. I love that you said that intellectually you can go there, of course, very much an intellectual. I will intellectualize everything, which means it's been really hard for me to embody it, because I tend to stay up here a lot, even in birth.
00;38;44;00 - 00;39;08;26
Unknown
Leading up to. Yeah, it there's a lot of, like, for me, it stays a lot up here, but it's that it's that moment of knowing, oh, this is it. Because for me, there's always been the maybe this is it. It could this be labor and and I know everyone hates secure. And I'm sure you've experienced this when you tell women when it's time, you're going to know there's for me that has been my experience.
00;39;08;29 - 00;39;30;00
Unknown
Even with the non baby producing labor that can happen. I love that phrase instead of prodromal labor. So thank you for that. Emilee. I think you were the first person I heard call it non baby producing sensations, right? That I had for weeks. Maybe some of mine. There's always a shift. There's a moment of oh this is a.
00;39;30;02 - 00;39;52;08
Unknown
And for me that moment always comes with a little bit of white knuckle, almost like a panic, like, oh my God, here we go again. I thought this before. I know it's going to be really intense. I know it was probably maybe going to hurt a little bit and I don't know how long. And it's this moment of everything goes real big up here.
00;39;52;08 - 00;40;20;28
Unknown
And then for me, it's that it's that prayer or meditation or whatever brings you back in to self, right? And for me, that's often prayer, like talking to God, like, okay, I'm surrendering to this. I know that I was created for this and my baby has chosen me. You have chosen my for me. And like, we're in this together and it's it is.
00;40;20;28 - 00;40;47;04
Unknown
It's the surrender. Like you talk about the surrendering to the process, but yeah, it's whatever brings you into the into your body and out of your head. For me, that's the biggest thing. I love listening, like I said, but my last one to Johan does one of her birth meditations, and I wish I could remember which one. It was off the top of my head, but it was so good for me because it helped me to stay out of my head.
00;40;47;07 - 00;41;11;20
Unknown
It gave me something to let my mind. Yeah, to listen so that I could. My mind was busy listening to that myself. Could be in my body. So yeah, just whatever brings you back into your body, I don't know, I not that you're suggesting this, but, like, I don't know if I could listen to Yolanda in my birth.
00;41;11;22 - 00;41;44;10
Unknown
That is very valid. Yolanda has a very different relationship. I mean, Yolanda, that's great. So. Yeah, exactly. But totally different things. But perhaps there's perhaps there's. I'm sure there's other ones. I mean, her voice is so beautiful, though, and she loves me so much. So maybe it's the perfect move or it would just like it was not just like, maybe listen to it because I listen to it, you know, a couple of times a week leading up to because it's like a really beautiful, like birth preparation and all of that.
00;41;44;13 - 00;42;05;17
Unknown
And then water, like, I really like water. But you haven't had a great experience with feeling good in water, so that might be different. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I guess I liked it for a while last time, and then I could feel my waters were about to open and I just, like, had to get up. And when I got up, once that my waters opened, then I had to go puke.
00;42;05;17 - 00;42;32;01
Unknown
And I just like then it was on and I never wound up and never even occurred to me to go back into the water. So anyway, yeah, that, you know, it's fun. It sounds like you had a really, really intense, intense labor. The last one was. But it's like, wasn't it intense because of my resistance? Isn't that the like, you know, isn't that the whole point, chicken or egg here.
00;42;32;03 - 00;42;53;10
Unknown
What's happening with the resistance? Because it wasn't cancer wasn't. And because there was. Right I don't know. True. Yeah. I think both could be true. And so now you are I mean, I know you took RBK. I don't know really anything beyond that. Like you're interested in birth work. Do you work with women. How has this how has this shaped you?
00;42;53;10 - 00;43;17;09
Unknown
I, I do not yet work with women at this point in that way. So I've kind of had like a social media I, I always downplay it a little bit and that's not really fair. Like I to myself, I had built up a following of about like 40,000 women on YouTube and about like 12,000 on Instagram. And I stepped away from that last year because I needed to take a sabbatical.
00;43;17;09 - 00;43;48;17
Unknown
Like I felt very clearly that I needed time. And I had a huge just so much for myself personally in the last year of growth and spiritual shifts and changes that I've actually left those things behind and then starting over. Wait, why? Why would you leave a whole following behind? Because it felt like those people who were following me there new a completely different version of me, even just in the year.
00;43;48;17 - 00;44;14;07
Unknown
And for me, it felt like I wanted a clean slate of building up a following that was more aligned with where in that model versus just like, catching them up. Well, maybe I listen, I go back and forth with this all the time. Emilee, that seems absolutely crazy to me, but I don't know, I don't know. Well, it does seem crazy.
00;44;14;07 - 00;44;35;15
Unknown
And you're right. And like, even just having this conversation with you, it's like, well, you know, maybe like, why don't you just be like, hey, guys, I changed. I think, and that's totally that's a really valid point, Emilee. And now I'm going to have to sit with that, do some breathwork on why I feel like like we're I don't know, maybe you're.
00;44;35;17 - 00;44;57;17
Unknown
I don't know anything about you of of like how different it was and why you would believe it would be incompatible. So maybe there's something there that is accurate, but just like baseline, not knowing anything, assuming that your evolution is like within the realms of normal, I don't know why you draw. So I mean, I mean followers like, you're totally right.
00;44;57;17 - 00;45;22;01
Unknown
You're totally right. I'm going to spend some time with that today. Spend some time with that today. I'm only well because also also people are welcome to leave if it's no longer compatible with their interest. But but I think a lot of women are extremely interested in the evolution of someone they're following.
00;45;22;04 - 00;45;41;08
Unknown
You know, like because that's real and inspiring. Well, and that's true. That's a, that's a huge part of my story is in who I was and and who I am now and that it is safe and it is good actually to grow. And that anyone who says that my beliefs and who I am are the exact same now as they were ten years ago.
00;45;41;09 - 00;46;04;28
Unknown
If somebody goes right. So what is not authentic? What are you, like hiding from? Like what is the thing you don't follow? What am I what am I hiding from? I'm hiding from the fact that I. I am a follower of Christ. I am a I'm a woman of faith. But my faith has.
00;46;05;01 - 00;46;31;27
Unknown
The best way to put this is like I decided to take God out of the box, right? And to explore aspects of my faith outside of what is normative and okay, in Western evangelical Christianity. Great. And that means now I do things like, you know, where crystals and use and connect with God's creation through this way, connecting with spirit in in different ways that maybe aren't is okay.
00;46;31;27 - 00;46;42;18
Unknown
And so I am perceived I'm free judgment and condemnation from a community that knew me one way.
00;46;42;20 - 00;47;05;19
Unknown
No. Yeah, I know, and now you're saying it. I'm like, yeah, you can't run from. First of all, you can't run from that shit. That shit is gonna find you. It is. You're totally right, you know? Totally right. Even if this whole start over thing works and you build up a new 40 K or a new 12 K, you're you're therefore just because it's numbers going to deal with the same stuff.
00;47;05;19 - 00;47;35;22
Unknown
So the, the what's it called the the handle may change, but you can't escape the occurrence of. No you don't. But then on the flip side, well so you can't run away from judgment right. Like of course not. But you can know who you are and own your shit and not take it on and not, you know, not give power to strangers and projections.
00;47;35;24 - 00;47;56;06
Unknown
I just had a woman on the the show. I don't know where she'll fall in the order of your episode, so this might not make sense for listeners, but I had this woman on the show who was very, she had a really successful company, and it got basically usurped. And she got went through the cancel culture. Lib woke, you know, thing.
00;47;56;10 - 00;48;17;13
Unknown
And so anyway, her point was like, if everyone tells you your hair is blue and you know your hair is not blue, it's annoying that they think your hair is blue, but it's not like gonna shake you. It's only going to shake you. Yeah, it's only going to shake you if you're like, wait, is my hair? Oh shit.
00;48;17;14 - 00;48;59;13
Unknown
Is this blue? You know? And so her point was, you know, like, you have to know who you are and stand in in what you're doing with great courage and humility, or else they'll eat you alive. Yes, that is totally true. I guess then to, like, go back and answer your question fully is that my my work with women at this point has mostly leaned towards what I would consider like mentor or guide, especially for moms who experience a lot of anger and rage because of their own unhealed shit that they need to work on in themselves, and that they're spewing it out on their kids.
00;48;59;14 - 00;49;21;06
Unknown
Because that was me. I was a very angry, racial, not kind mother for the first 3 to 4 years of my children's lives. And so I take that as a way to share with women. These are tools. These are things you can actually do to shift that and then to repair the relationship with you, with your kids.
00;49;21;06 - 00;49;42;19
Unknown
Because my illness, I thank God every day for the relationship that I have with him now, because that child needs to be afraid of him. He's still legitimately be scared of me and it broke my heart. He did not. When I realized that he was afraid of me, that's when I said, this has to change. I have to change because this isn't about him being an obnoxious kid.
00;49;42;21 - 00;50;05;29
Unknown
Like too many moms think, oh, I can't be the mom I want to be because my kid won't be the kid I want to be. Grow up. That's bullshit. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. You're you're in your victimhood right now. Like I am at the effect of my children instead of I'm a grown ass woman who is responsible for her own thoughts, beliefs, feelings, and actions that come out of that.
00;50;06;02 - 00;50;33;08
Unknown
So that's kind of where I lean now. I definitely talk about birth related things or have in the past sharing my own experiences, but I will fully confess that I am still too immature. I suppose I still get too butthurt when people don't listen to me, because I think I'm right all the time and do things that I tell them.
00;50;33;08 - 00;50;53;29
Unknown
If you do this, this is what's going to happen, and then I'm exactly right, and that happens. And then I'm like, I'm not going to be the one who says, I told you so, but I'm definitely kicking. And so I fully acknowledge that I'm not yet in a place where I am capable of just like fully being with women and saying, you own your choices.
00;50;53;29 - 00;51;23;09
Unknown
Here's my experience and this is yours to have, like take practice, I think. I think I'll get there. I think I'll get there. I've always said that I figure that I would be like a middle aged midwife. And also I recognize that I'm 42, so that's probably middle age. But I still have young babies, and for me, that doesn't feel in integrity with with how I want to be with my kids taking on work, that then takes me away from them for potentially really long periods of time.
00;51;23;10 - 00;51;30;08
Unknown
And I know women do it all the time. It just doesn't feel right for me right now.
00;51;30;11 - 00;51;39;21
Unknown
Yeah, I mean, there's lots of ways to support women in birth obvious that aren't going to the to their births.
00;51;39;24 - 00;51;56;20
Unknown
Okay, so I guess the last thing I feel inspired to say or compelled to say is take it or leave it. But for whatever this is worth. I know that.
00;51;56;22 - 00;52;38;13
Unknown
Whenever you're ready to stop hiding and whenever there's no like. Like it's only for you to decide. But when you are ready to own like, fully, fully own where you're at and the messiness of that, right? Like you're never going to be like, so cleaned up that you'll be, like, completely bulletproof from, you know, so whenever you're ready, I think that there will be I strongly believe that there will be more women inspired by your creativity in in exploring your spirituality and in exploring your relationship to God outside the box as you framed it.
00;52;38;13 - 00;53;18;04
Unknown
I think from what I see, women are so, so many women are so curious about what that could look like. And there aren't a lot of, women like showing the way of what that could look like, you know? And so I think there is a real beauty and interest in inspiring gift in your own courage of going outside the box and really making your relationship to God your own so that it is the most authentic and real, which obviously only serves you and your family right.
00;53;18;06 - 00;53;54;11
Unknown
And then when you if you get to a place of of interest in sharing that. Yeah, of course it takes courage, but I think way more women would be inspired by that than judgy. Well, thank you for saying that, Emilee. I'm going to I'm going to sit with that. I'm going to sit with that. I think there's a lot of truth that what you're saying, it's definitely given me some food for thought and a different perspective, because I was coming at it from a perspective of almost like it was cheating if I tried to ride my own coattails, I don't know.
00;53;54;12 - 00;54;21;13
Unknown
That's so absurd. What I'm saying. So when I do what I know, it's socially. It's so silly. Yeah. No, that's some really great. I actually think it's kind of an obvious character arc that you are, when you're ready, are going to have to own. I actually think there's probably something here because of, like, the dramatic end and and the fears around it.
00;54;21;13 - 00;54;42;05
Unknown
I think it'll be a really important integration piece of who you are becoming to own to your followers this evolution, because you say, like, I know I'm allowed to grow. It's like, we'll prove it. Yeah. You know.
00;54;42;08 - 00;55;06;22
Unknown
Is it all in, all in good time, all in good time. Yeah, yeah. No, that's, Yeah, that's some good stuff. Okay. Well. Thank you. I can't believe we did nine birth stories in under an hour. I, I need you to know that I actually spent a solid, like, two days going over, like, okay, what is the most efficient and quick way that I can express each of these stories?
00;55;06;22 - 00;55;26;19
Unknown
Because I could literally talk to you for three hours or more. Of course. Like there's so much, but yeah, I'm really grateful for the opportunity to share them. I love talking about the movie, The Hard Parts, because I think that it's so valuable to hear women's stories and to know it's just it just shows us what possible.
00;55;26;21 - 00;55;48;11
Unknown
Yeah. That's important. Yeah. Well, thank you for your time. Thank you so much, Emilee. All right, women, I hope you enjoyed the show today. You can support this podcast by donating to it through the link in the show notes below. And of course, leaving an awesome review on whatever platform you listen on. The more reviews, the more visibility the show gets.
00;55;48;11 - 00;56;12;29
Unknown
So let's spread the good word of free birth. Don't forget, you can watch all of my podcast interviews on YouTube and see the women as they tell their birth and power stories. And you will also find our viral free worth collection of epic Raw Birth videos on our YouTube channel. So make sure you're subscribed. We always have a lot going on at Free Birth Society, and you can find out about all of it at Free Birth Society.
00;56;13;02 - 00;56;37;28
Unknown
And I am at Free Birth Society on Instagram. Please opt in to my newsletter below so that you don't miss a thing. We offer courses on free birth, sovereign birth work as well as one on one coaching, women's retreats so much. Our exclusive private vetted membership. The Lighthouse is definitely something to check out. If you were looking for a community of wise sisters to get guidance from and to meet in real life.
00;56;38;03 - 00;56;51;21
Unknown
Together we rise. Sisters. We must speak our stories fully, claim our lives, and support one another. This is the living revolution and I am so grateful to be in it with all of you. Till next time.
