00;00;02;15 - 00;00;38;22
Unknown
Hi women. Before we dive in today, I need to name something important. This episode, along with all episodes that you will hear until our winter break in mid-December, was recorded before my birth prior to mid-August. Since then, our family has walked through the unimaginable. Our son was stillborn and we are in deep mourning as the shows air, you'll hear and see me pregnant, which now feels incredibly painful and weird.
00;00;38;25 - 00;01;14;24
Unknown
Given that you are holding the sacred knowledge of what came after. So please forgive the dissonance. These stories still deserve to be shared and heard. We welcome your prayers, your loving thoughts, and your support as we navigate this spiral of such deep grief. I hope you find resonance and nourishment in this conversation today. Thank you. If you are like most of my listeners, you are devouring these episodes and you're probably wishing that you could speak to the women that come on this show.
00;01;14;27 - 00;01;42;22
Unknown
Learn from them, even get to know them in real life. Right. Well, I would like to invite you into my inner circle. It's called the lighthouse. The lighthouse is my highly exclusive online membership, and it's where most of the women on this podcast are hanging out. It's by far the best social media platform on the internet. It's highly curated by yours truly, and our team personally vets every single member coming in to ensure the highest caliber community imaginable.
00;01;42;25 - 00;02;13;03
Unknown
I'm talking a full feed of free birth announcements every day, engaging and intellectual conversation about everything taboo under the sun, a ton of group calls every month to connect and be in circle. Not to mention the now seven year old matriarch search engine that will quickly replace your Google searching. Add your name to the list in the show notes below, and consider taking your place among us brilliant, sovereign wild women, because it's just simply better when we're all together.
00;02;13;04 - 00;02;40;21
Unknown
See you on the inside, sis. Welcome to Free Birth society. I'm Emilee Saldaya, and this is where we break the spell of medicalized birth. Remember what's been forgotten and rise together into our birthright to live birth and mother as sovereign women. Kristin Houser. Hi, there. Hey, girl. Back again. Again. I know you're you're a pretty high repeat guest.
00;02;40;23 - 00;03;08;23
Unknown
And this is so fun because your old school. Your old school. You were on the pod when I was even still kind of confused about what sovereign birth was. And you were on, do you know, first or second season? I was on the first season. I think about conscious conception. But you shared was that not your birth story episode?
00;03;08;25 - 00;03;33;23
Unknown
Like, I was on an episode before my first birth. Oh, and even know that. Oh my gosh, terrible host. Yeah. And then yeah, because you and I had some connection through the birth world back in LA. Yeah. Yeah. Forever. Many lifetimes ago now. Anyway, so we will put this in the show notes of your OG episodes because now.
00;03;33;25 - 00;04;12;00
Unknown
So you were on sharing your first birth, which was with a licensed midwife, but also very cool. And you did a lot of work, you know, in that, that pregnancy. And I remember the cord snapping and very unusual and. Yeah. So it's it's a cool episode. But now 700 years later, you have four kids, three have been free birthed, and I've known you now for several years, and you've been on a bunch because of the Blood Mysteries school, which everyone should go check out, and we'll put it in the show notes as well.
00;04;12;01 - 00;04;40;25
Unknown
But I want you here for the full birth episode. Every story, whatever lessons we can cram into an hour and and also, you know, whatever you're willing to share about the immediate postpartum, you know, of your fourth baby in which I was long distance, you know, a little bit a part of because I think it's a really, really helpful, important story.
00;04;40;28 - 00;05;17;13
Unknown
Yes, I'm really happy to share. It's unique and also not it's also very normal. It's like it was unique to my experience. It was not something I anticipated, but it was just a very average, normal situation. So we're talking about Kristen's relationship to blood loss essentially, and bleeding, you know, more than what you were comfortable with. I guess I'll just say that and, and and navigating that, you know, and staying home and doing the holistic measures that felt right and true for you.
00;05;17;13 - 00;05;43;14
Unknown
And so, yeah, I think it's an important topic because it was unusual for you, who's now had four children. So it was like a whole new terrain. And also, I mean, you could have easily dramatized it. You could have easily transferred. You could have easily called that a hemorrhage. And your the way you and your husband chose to deal with it, approach it.
00;05;43;14 - 00;06;10;14
Unknown
And I don't know the right word like the right word like. Yeah integrate it. Yeah I was thinking the same of like the integration of it was essential and how. Yeah. Because now with that part of the story, it's like it's not something I think about really anymore. It's not like stuck in my system anywhere. And that's not to downplay like in the moment.
00;06;10;14 - 00;06;34;24
Unknown
It was something that, you know, needed integration and support and scared you. Yeah. And scared me in the sense of like, okay, I, I'm going through my own checklist. Right. And like, at least for me, I know if that analytical part of my brain turns on during birth, like, that's not typically a good place or space to be in.
00;06;34;24 - 00;06;54;21
Unknown
So when I'm like, okay, this is the next thing I should do and this is the next thing I should do. And that was the point where I was like, I need a like outside kind of witnessing or support, essentially of like, am I covering my bases? Is there something I'm missing about the situation? Like, that was kind of what was in my mind at that time.
00;06;54;23 - 00;07;22;09
Unknown
So much, so much to say. Just about like blood reclamation, blood normalization and and the discomfort like that all of us carry with it. And then we get these experiences that are opportunities to learn more about our blood, which is like lol given your work. Yeah.
00;07;22;11 - 00;07;50;14
Unknown
Okay. So just who the heck are you? What should people what should people know about you? Mother of four. Yeah, so I have four kids, ages eight and under. At this point, my youngest is almost nine months old and I'm yeah, a mother of four. I have a company called Womb Medicine that I started just over ten years ago, and when I started I was a clinical acupuncturist.
00;07;50;14 - 00;08;11;00
Unknown
I worked in a clinical setting, and I supported a lot of women navigating fertility, both in the medical environment and not in the medical environment. And then over the years, I've kind of shifted further and further away from assisted reproductive technology and all of that. I mean, I've never engaged with that myself, but a lot of my clients did at that time when I first started out.
00;08;11;00 - 00;08;36;23
Unknown
And now I really work with women who are kind of operating their entire lives outside of the medical model and paradigm and supporting them fertility through postpartum. So that's what I'm doing in the world. However, I do do spend a lot of time with my family and in home life, and you split your life between Costa Rica and Kansas?
00;08;36;28 - 00;09;21;09
Unknown
Yes. Right now we are splitting our time between Costa Rica and Kansas City. Kansas City is where I grew up. My my parents are here, my family's here. And we moved from California after my set between my second and third, essentially right before my third was born, we relocated to Kansas City, and that was in 2022. And we spent a couple of years here before we kind of made the transition between here and Costa Rica, and we were pregnant with our boys at the same time and birthed two weeks or something apart, maybe really close, really, because Desi is my third and he was born September 27th, so he'll be three soon.
00;09;21;09 - 00;09;49;00
Unknown
At the time of this recording, and I think Sawyer was born a couple weeks after that. Yeah, that was fun. Yeah. Okay, so give us a quick overview. Like what wants to be said about your first birth that leads you into free birth? I think that's like the specific frame I'd like to hear about. Right. Yeah. So my first birth was like, I knew I was the type of woman, like, I knew I wanted to birth at home.
00;09;49;00 - 00;10;09;24
Unknown
I had worked as a doula. The the burst that I had attended as a doula were kind of varied a lot in the system, like fully in the hospital setting and some outside of the hospital setting, birthing center, home births. So I had seen a pretty wide range. I knew that birthing in the hospital was really out for me completely.
00;10;09;27 - 00;10;34;27
Unknown
And so at that time, my kind of level of awareness was like, if you want a birth at home, you hire the midwife, you kind of go into that type of care. So when I got pregnant with my first, I interviewed midwives. I, you know, decided on one that felt right for me, started that building, that relationship. And we lived in Orange County, California at that time.
00;10;34;28 - 00;10;59;00
Unknown
And I just I really tried to hire the person that was like, the most rogue in a way, who was like the most seemed the most relaxed around regulations and such. And obviously throughout the pregnancy, as I approached the end, it was like, well, there are certain situations where she's not going to be able to attend and I still want to choose to stay at home.
00;10;59;00 - 00;11;28;11
Unknown
So that was kind of my first introduction or or feeling into free birth and unassisted. And I knew as a first time mom, I personally did want some kind of support. So I also had a doula who was more than willing to attend if I ended up going unassisted. So in the end, it was like a little bit stressful because I felt like, okay, I might not even have the midwife that I hired, and I'm I'm okay with that.
00;11;28;11 - 00;11;53;17
Unknown
And at the same time, like, at least I have, you know, my husband was on board and I had this doula that was willing to attend as kind of like a, you know, unregulated midwife or whatever was needed, essentially. And it ended up that that birth was like totally normal and within the confines, I guess you could say, of the California Regulations on regulated midwifery in that state.
00;11;53;20 - 00;12;16;11
Unknown
So, yeah, I went into that birth kind of really with that. Let me just say that's such an important way to frame it. I appreciate that so much because, you know, to people listening, I don't know if you if you would catch that. But, you know, another way that women frame what Kristen just said was, well, my midwife was perfect and I got everything I wanted.
00;12;16;11 - 00;12;43;02
Unknown
And so not all midwives to your critiques and you know, everything. You know, my midwife was just totally willing to do whatever I wanted and said, it's like, no, no, no, no, no, no. You had a birth that fell into the center Venn diagram of everything that was allowed. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I just had nothing out of the ordinary or even pushing any of the boundaries happened.
00;12;43;05 - 00;13;00;24
Unknown
I called her, she arrived like 30 minutes before my son emerged. I had birthed or I had, you know, spent most of my birthing process at home with just my husband and a friend. And yeah, like you had mentioned before, the only thing that was kind of out of the ordinary in that birth is the core did snap when he emerged.
00;13;00;26 - 00;13;28;06
Unknown
That was kind of taking care of really quickly with a baby in my arms. It was not something that was a big deal. In that moment, he transitioned just fine and in our postpartum was all intact and everything was was good. Say that again. Were you standing? No, I was in the water and I was kind of like in a runner's lunge, I would say, like in a one knee down, one one foot up.
00;13;28;06 - 00;13;49;26
Unknown
And he just had a really short cord and, and emerged really kind of quickly, I guess you could say. Yeah. So I mean, I'll never really know why that happened, but I wasn't standing in he fell or anything like that. It was just he came out like that and a thinner part of the cord and the baby's fast.
00;13;49;27 - 00;14;10;19
Unknown
I mean, it's not that crazy that it would happen. Yeah, yeah, it was just I had never been to a birth that that happened. Yeah. But it's also not that, you know, you just need to clamp the cord and, like, that's it. It's not, you know, a huge problem. And on the baby side. On the baby side. Yeah.
00;14;10;20 - 00;14;34;14
Unknown
On the baby side. And so after that I, I just, I felt like, okay, I kind of know a little bit more what to expect at this point. Right? A birth always brings something unknown. But I felt like, okay, if I can kind of go through that first experience as I did, then it just makes sense to do it on my own next time.
00;14;34;14 - 00;15;00;04
Unknown
And then. So my subsequent pregnancy was about, let's see, I got pregnant at 14 or 15 months postpartum. And yeah, I was just like, kind of I knew that I would have an unassisted pregnancy and have a free birth. So that was my first rebirth with my daughter. So she was born 23 months after my son was born.
00;15;00;07 - 00;15;21;08
Unknown
And so that was my first time navigating, like being a mom and also being in labor. Right? So that was the big kind of question mark in that process was like, okay, is the is my son going to be at the birth? Am I going to organize for him to be away? And it just felt better for me and for our family to have him there.
00;15;21;08 - 00;15;40;09
Unknown
And it worked out just fine, like I did have someone that I knew I could rely on and call if I needed him to, like, be taken out of the room or something for a little bit or outside. But yeah, it was another really sweet, pretty easy birth that happened during the day. It was like I went into labor in the morning.
00;15;40;09 - 00;16;07;24
Unknown
She was born at lunch and by night we were all in bed together. So where was the kid? So this was we had moved to North County, San Diego, and I was there. We lived there for four years and my husband was my main support for that birth. And yeah, and my son was there. He was kind of in and out of the room.
00;16;07;27 - 00;16;42;10
Unknown
And yeah, there was nothing really notable. It was just I would say about like a four hour labor and she was born and. Yeah. How did, like, deal with mom and labor at two years old? Oh, he was great. I mean, he was really fine. I feel like intuitively, of course, he knew something was up, like, you know, and we had talked about it, but he was kind of in and out of the room he was playing, and then he'd come in and check on me, and sometimes he would pat my head or touch me or something.
00;16;42;10 - 00;17;21;09
Unknown
But really it was he never like, tried to get in the birth tub with me or anything like that. He kind of I feel like he just intuitively got it, and we didn't really have to do a lot for him. Nice. Yeah, it's not always like that. But for us it was. Yeah. No certainly not. I was at a birth one time where the baby was younger than he was, more like a year and a half, and she just was screaming in her mom's face while the mom was literally birthing the baby, like the baby was coming out.
00;17;21;12 - 00;17;46;12
Unknown
And this sweet little baby was just, like, so freaked out and literally screaming in her face, that would be out of there for for that once that started. But I'll never forget that because that's obviously quite dramatic. That was very dramatic and I would not have handled that very well. No, the mom did handle it well, though as far externally, I don't know what was happening.
00;17;46;14 - 00;18;05;06
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. Okay. So then now you're a mom of two pretty quickly. Yeah. So I had two just under two years apart, and then I had a little bit of a longer gap and that was really great. So my third was born when my daughter was three and a half, and then my son was five and a half.
00;18;05;06 - 00;18;34;20
Unknown
So yeah, I just really I think this the third was my favorite birth and postpartum time because of that longer gap for I think I just have to say that because I know there's a lot out there about like child spacing and all of that. Of course, every family comes together in a unique way, but for me, having that three plus year gap was just like so nice and so chill, and it just felt way more relaxed than having to close together.
00;18;34;25 - 00;18;59;03
Unknown
Of course, that's like arguable. I know, I know, but I mean, in American culture at least, it's like kind of not. I don't want to say it's expected, but a lot of people do space their kids closer together. They're bang them out. Yeah. Like two years, 18 months. Yeah. Which he is not ideal. I'm only about to have my third.
00;18;59;03 - 00;19;24;08
Unknown
But but my daughter was four and a half. Yeah. And so she had like her own life. But that's why go to dance and her sports and her friends. And it was like so chill. So I don't know how this will go. This is what, two and a half. Almost three of three. Yeah. I think you'll be okay.
00;19;24;10 - 00;19;49;08
Unknown
Yeah. So then when my third was born, it was again, just like unassisted pregnancy free birth. We did have my parents then since since I had relocated from California to Kansas City. And that was really helpful for the other kids in the end. So this was also one of my longer pregnancies. I think it was my longest pregnancy actually.
00;19;49;08 - 00;20;16;06
Unknown
So I was 41 plus weeks when I gave birth to my third. So I was like, really kind of I wouldn't say I was like to the point where I was like, I'm just so done and over this. But I was like, wow, okay, this is the longest I've ever been pregnant. This is kind of interesting. And what something that's common for me is like, I get a lot of lead up contractions and and stuff happening and that can last like weeks off and on.
00;20;16;09 - 00;20;34;22
Unknown
Not that it's like interfering that much with my day to day, but it's like, okay, is it happening? I don't know, probably not. And then I just kind of go back to my life. And that happened a lot with him. I would say for that third birth and then and you get a lot in that birth, right? Yeah.
00;20;34;25 - 00;20;59;06
Unknown
Yeah. That's interesting about that. So for my my first two were born in the water was just very clear like I would I got in the water to certain point during the pregnancy or of the burning process. I water 30 weeks, 336 weeks. I was like done. But it's a little come back around with my fourth because I spent a lot of time going to the river with in my fourth pregnancy.
00;20;59;06 - 00;21;31;08
Unknown
Anyways, so back to the third. I yeah, I, I went into labor, I think like officially or like more consistently on I would say like 11 or 12, like 11 a.m., maybe noon around lunchtime. And my son was going to a forest school at that time. And then I had my daughter here with me at home. My husband was working but working from home, and I was like, I'm just going to lay down for a little bit, see if I can rest, like see if this is just going to fade out again like it usually does.
00;21;31;08 - 00;21;53;10
Unknown
And it didn't. And then I had some bloody show and I was like, okay, I know the baby's probably going to come right. It's like that far. And so I told my husband, go pick up our son because the baby's going to be born like, I don't want you to leave later to pick him up from school. So he left I here, I'm home with my daughter and things are starting to get a little more intense.
00;21;53;10 - 00;22;13;18
Unknown
And she was three, just over three at the time. And I was like, okay, we're going to go inside because I had been laying down outside and so I'm inside with her and it I wouldn't say it was like super stressful or anything, but she wasn't happy with the fact that I couldn't always respond to what she needed.
00;22;13;19 - 00;22;31;05
Unknown
Right. So I think it was like she needed help with going to the bathroom or something, and I was like, I can't do it right now. I also couldn't even really tell her that I couldn't do it right now. Oh, you're like in it. Like I'm in it. I'm leaning over the railing like of the stairs. Okay. But literally, why did your man not take her with her?
00;22;31;05 - 00;22;51;21
Unknown
With him? I don't know, I was like, oh no, it's fine. I thought I, you know, my, my I think it's like my, my downfall but also like it works so well for me during labor. It's just like, just deny that, like it's fine. Like everything's just make it as easy as possible. Pretend like it's going to last forever.
00;22;51;28 - 00;23;16;14
Unknown
Like, that is my mentality in the moment. I'm like. And in that moment I was like, it's fine, she can stay. And so then by the time my husband gets home, I'm like, really, really in it. Like I'm not verbal. I'm like barely able to walk. And he's like, okay, like that happened quick. So he's trying to figure out like, what is he going to do with the other kids?
00;23;16;14 - 00;23;39;29
Unknown
And then he's like, I'd really like to call your mom to come over. And I'm like, that's fine. So my mom comes over. She's with the older two. They're like painting pumpkins outside or something. And my husband's like doing all the things because he's like, this is his second free birth. This is his third birth. And he's like, setting up the tub, like getting, like, doing some video recording and like, all that stuff.
00;23;40;01 - 00;23;58;28
Unknown
And I'm just laying on the bed like, that's at this point, like, I cannot really get up from the bed. I think I did maybe once to go to the bathroom or something, but I was just laying on my right side and that was like it for me. And he's like, okay, the tubs ready? Do you want to get in?
00;23;58;28 - 00;24;18;13
Unknown
Because that's kind of what he knew. And that's like what our plan was. And I was like, no fucking way. I'm not getting in that. I can't even walk like I see the tub. It looks nice from where, where I can see it, but like, I'm not going in. And so that was my first birth, not in the water.
00;24;18;15 - 00;24;45;13
Unknown
It did. I feel like it allowed the birthing process to go a little bit like slower and more titrated for some reason. And I gave myself perineal support, which I hadn't done before, and that was my first birth without tearing, which was kind of nice and also just maybe related to whatever else that was going on. But yeah, it was also like pretty short, maybe like 2 to 3 hours in the most intense part.
00;24;45;16 - 00;25;13;25
Unknown
And yeah, he was born around six or like five something I want to say we had dinner and like went to bed and and that was that. So was he born with you, Lane? Yeah. I was laying on my right side with my knee. And then your. You're holding your perennial. Yeah. It just felt good to apply some pressure there.
00;25;13;28 - 00;25;37;05
Unknown
Yeah. I had asked for a washcloth to apply pressure, but like that didn't happen fast enough. So he was born before I had like that washcloth support. But yeah, I was basically just kind of like feeling his head emerge. I would say I wasn't like giving a lot of counter pressure or something, but I was just had my hand there for whatever reason.
00;25;37;08 - 00;25;57;26
Unknown
I mean, I've certainly seen women, especially if the baby's coming fast, either want someone else or themselves to just be like, whoa, kind of hold it. Yeah, slow it like it probably doesn't slow it down, but it might feel like it feels different, I think. Yeah. When you have your hand there, I don't know, it was just an intuitive thing that I did.
00;25;57;26 - 00;26;22;01
Unknown
I didn't really think about it or plan for it. That's a trip. So just like laying down. Yeah, my right side. I was like, I had some counter like during during contractions, I would ask my husband to hold his hand and I would pull like against his weight. For some reason that was working for me at that birth.
00;26;22;01 - 00;26;40;26
Unknown
And then, yeah, I just had my like I had myself propped up to with I had a lot of pillows, and then I just had my leg kind of open and yeah, he emerged and just like went right onto the bed.
00;26;40;28 - 00;26;59;00
Unknown
Yeah. You really just can't plan what you're going to do. You know, like women all the time are like, I'm having a water birth or whatever. It's like, okay, we'll see. Like, you have no idea and just be open because you could never have guessed that you were going to, like, lay on your side and pull your husband's hand.
00;26;59;03 - 00;27;28;25
Unknown
You know, in this particular way. Okay, so he's born and now you're adjusting to three kids. Give me your tips. Yeah. You know, three was really easy for us. I felt like because of a larger gap between 2 and 3, he just. And his personality too, he just kind of fits right in. He's easygoing. Yeah. He was just like, oh, yeah, of course he's here now.
00;27;28;25 - 00;27;55;06
Unknown
And and this is it's great to have him. And he was easy to. Yeah easy to be around. Easy to take care of. Like it was a really easy transition for us actually I would say it was our easiest. And so yeah I don't know there wasn't really anything any tips that I can give besides maybe we had a lot of support, which is always helpful.
00;27;55;10 - 00;28;05;11
Unknown
Yeah, sure. And yeah, just having the older kids like, have their kind of rhythm and routine and other things to do, it does help.
00;28;05;13 - 00;28;56;28
Unknown
So before we get into your fourth one, anything to say about just like I know it's just like so normal. And the longer we live this way, I feel excuse me. Like the less I have to say about it, but, like, you know, it's still pretty radical that you just, like, get pregnant and have a baby in your house and don't dramatize it and pathologies it and complicated and yeah, I guess I'm just wondering, like if there's anything you want to say about your path and evolution as a woman and a mother, and how wild pregnancy and free birth.
00;28;56;29 - 00;29;23;07
Unknown
Like, what's the work of it? What's the challenge of it? What's the, you know, lessons of it? Like what is it given you? You know, I mean, you could go in any direction, but like, what do you have to say about that? Yeah. I mean, I can relate to what you were saying before is like, the more that I'm in it and the more that I've done it, it's like for me, it just is the normal.
00;29;23;07 - 00;29;54;01
Unknown
It is kind of the normal day to day. And there's less that I, there's less that I guess I could say over time I spend less time thinking about that. Yeah, right. I spend less time thinking about why do I do it this way or that. It's so different than the way everyone else is doing it. I mean, there are moments where I really where I'm reminded right by the external world, like, oh yeah, this is like outside of the norm.
00;29;54;02 - 00;30;21;12
Unknown
It's not normal to, like, never see a doctor refuse ultrasounds, like just go even refusing, you don't even refuse them. You know, that's like saying you refuse a Big Mac. It's like you're not even in a world where a Big Mac would be offered, right? Yeah. So it's just like. I mean, I guess I recognize that, yeah. People are like, whoa, I can't believe you would do that.
00;30;21;12 - 00;30;50;14
Unknown
Or, you know, I do occasionally get the odd question or something about it, about like, what are your, you know, that's so brave or you're so whatever the thing is, that is their projection. So I think maybe over time, what has gotten easier and more clear is like, I don't really take on the projections of others as easily as I might have as like a first time or even second time mom is I'm like, that's really not about me.
00;30;50;16 - 00;31;32;08
Unknown
Yeah, that's about whatever their thoughts or beliefs are or their own experience. So that part has gotten easier. And I think that evolution has just been, yeah, just a natural part of having more kids and having more experience and feeling like, yeah, it's it's okay like that. I'm making the decisions that I'm making. And I also I think over time it maybe Emilee, you feel the same as like and I know free birth society gets a lot of like hate around this to be honest, is I'm not trying to convince everyone else to do this, you know, like, I don't.
00;31;32;10 - 00;31;50;07
Unknown
It's not in my best interest or anyone else's best interest. Like, just because I'm doing this doesn't mean that I think everyone should do this or that. It's the right decision for everyone, or it's the best way or whatever. It's just like, this is what I'm doing, and if you want to do something else, like you do that.
00;31;50;08 - 00;32;23;22
Unknown
But but women are so insecure. Not all women, but like the women who perceive it like that, who interpret it like that, they're so committed to unconsciously seeing themselves as inferior, they're not even aware of it, that everything is in comparison. And so for someone to make a choice like that, somehow, it somehow means something about their choice to do something different.
00;32;23;23 - 00;33;09;12
Unknown
You know, it's like if if I could have a tagline, you know, it really should be like, hey, women, do whatever the fuck you want, you know? And you're the only one that has to live with that, you know? So yeah. Yeah, totally. Yeah, yeah. I was wondering when you were talking like, how does this translate to, like, relationships with women and feeling othered or outside of or like just not on the same page, you know, like there is kind of obvious gaps of connection when a woman is still really captured.
00;33;09;14 - 00;33;48;26
Unknown
You know, like there is a a cool resonance and ease and flow with our friends who this is also just their normal. And I've certainly like fallen for the unconscious belief that like, that's the only way I can have friends, which is not true. Anyway, I'm wondering how that, like, shows up. I guess, like you, you have a I mean, you have a similar dynamic, also very different, but like, yeah, you're just like friends with other free birthers and you're in this, like, cool community in Costa Rica where that's really normal and currently.
00;33;48;27 - 00;34;09;04
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. But I have to say, I'm like, I'm glad you brought this up because I think my, like, relationship to the idea of community and just relating to other women has evolved over time. And what I really try to orient to is like, okay, what do we have in common? Like what is the common ground that we can meet around?
00;34;09;06 - 00;34;30;07
Unknown
For example, like our home in Kansas City? It's like in a very traditional, like suburban neighborhood. And I'm friendly with the people that live here. My, my kids have some good friends here, and we are friendly with those neighbors. They're very different. But like I'm always like, okay, well, what we have kids that we love and our kids get along and like, what can we connect around?
00;34;30;08 - 00;34;59;29
Unknown
Like, what does make sense? Like we're clearly we're already in proximity to each other and in a way that is part of community is just like, who are who's around you, who's in your immediate environment. And so I do try to find ways to relate to people that even if they're areas where we don't agree or our lives are very different, it's like, yeah, I can still, you know, enjoy some common ground and like, not make it something that it doesn't have to be.
00;35;00;02 - 00;35;27;18
Unknown
And then of course, there's that other side of like, yeah, I still need close friends and people who really get the decisions that I'm making, and that's nourishing as well. So I don't think it has to be like, you know, one or the other. I think when you first get into this world or you like, are first starting to make more sovereign choices, it is really helpful to be surrounded by people who are at least understanding, at least making some of the same choices that you're making.
00;35;27;18 - 00;35;48;15
Unknown
Perhaps because it's such a, yeah, a radical choice in a lot of ways. But as you continue down that path, I think, and you just get more secure and more comfortable with the decisions you're making, then it's not that it becomes irrelevant, but it becomes less essential, I think. Yeah, I think that's true for all like core values and ways of life.
00;35;48;16 - 00;36;15;12
Unknown
Right. Like when it's embodied, then you become unshakable and your need for everyone to kind of validate it and understand it literally goes away, you know? And it's nice to have people in resonance. Of course, we're drawn to that. But I'm thinking about this session I did the other day with this woman, a pregnant woman, and she was like, wait, wait, wait.
00;36;15;14 - 00;36;54;26
Unknown
You've never had an ultrasound. Like you've never done blood tests. Like, even with your first. Like it was actually unimaginable to her. And it was in a professional setting. You know, it's it's not exactly the same, but I was just like my I was watching my reaction because I'm like, of course not. Like, that's insane to me. Like I'm so blown away of what women are just willingly doing to, you know, to their bodies and to their pregnancies.
00;36;54;26 - 00;37;14;29
Unknown
It like, blows me away. And I'm so, you know, I'm like such a no to it for myself. But, you know, just like you, I was thinking when you were talking about the doula life before, you know, how in our culture it's really common, people say everyone should have to be a waiter before they, like, grow up or whatever.
00;37;15;02 - 00;37;37;27
Unknown
Yeah, okay. That's fine. Yes, you should work in the food industry. It definitely gives you some compassion. But every woman should be a doula. Every woman should go to hospital birth and see what they're doing in there and get a real, you know, lay of the scene so that they can have some honest information about what they're choosing.
00;37;38;00 - 00;38;01;26
Unknown
You know, because that is a that is actually at the core, I think of you and I, you know, like obvious knowing that we were never going to mess with that. It was because we had like very real first hand experience. Yeah. And I think when you see it, it's like you can't unsee it. And you're like, okay, that's the that's what I'm getting.
00;38;01;26 - 00;38;35;09
Unknown
If I go there like, no, no thanks, I'm not going to do that. Okay. So you have this like easy integration with your third and then you get pregnant. How soon. How old is Desi. So Desi will be three soon. I got pregnant about six, I think between 16 and 17 months postpartum. Yeah. And was that a positive, purposeful.
00;38;35;11 - 00;39;01;17
Unknown
Call it. Or like, how did that go? Yeah, you could say that was like we we felt a fourth timing wise I would have waited a bit longer. Yeah. But that's not how it happened. Well we were we were visiting Costa Rica to kind of like scope things out, see where we would want to be. And I conceived while we were there actually.
00;39;01;19 - 00;39;27;13
Unknown
And yeah, it was like, okay, we're doing it now, I guess. What was it, the level of shock and like, terror. I wouldn't my level of shock was not that shocked. I would say maybe like a three of ten or so. Okay. Yeah. I think we just like, took it in stride, honestly. We were like, okay, like we're welcoming another little guy or little one in.
00;39;27;14 - 00;39;50;02
Unknown
Well, at the time I thought it was going to be a girl, but that turned out to not be the case. Yeah. So I was just like, okay, like, pregnancy is pretty. I mean, I wouldn't say it's like always easy, but generally speaking, I like being pregnant and the first trimester is always a little rough. Being tired and, like, taking care of the other kids.
00;39;50;02 - 00;40;10;16
Unknown
And I had a lot going on business wise. So there was that. But I got through it and then had a great pregnancy in general, like we planned our move. I was super active. I was doing a lot to prep for that and just a lot in my business to kind of make things ready for having an extended postpartum time.
00;40;10;18 - 00;40;46;15
Unknown
You're also like, by your nature, not very dramatic and not, you know, you're just like, chill. And so, you know, we birth how we live, right? Like you are obviously very actively creating with great intention, but also in keeping with who you are and your personality, how you respond to life. And yeah, surprise me that it's all like pretty chill.
00;40;46;17 - 00;41;11;03
Unknown
Yeah. I mean, I don't like we love having a like a larger family. I don't know if you would consider for kids a larger family, but it's definitely like teetering on that edge. And yeah, we just love our family life and we're like another baby. Like, what could be better than that? You know, it's like, I think it does get called a big family.
00;41;11;03 - 00;41;28;21
Unknown
When you see the picture that you sent me of you trying to have a work meeting in, I think you were in Costa Rica with a baby, maybe even two kids on your boobs. And then one was right behind you, and then the other one was like, right here from behind the scenes, you know, a picture I'm talking about.
00;41;28;22 - 00;41;46;01
Unknown
I know exactly what you're talking about. Yeah, I was talking to you, I think in Nancy, perhaps, and it was like I was holding the baby. That's a lot of kids. Yeah, a baby toddler, I think was playing or, like, having a juice or something. And then the two big kids are, like, back there, like, when are you going to be done kind of vibe.
00;41;46;03 - 00;41;54;14
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. That's that's maybe a big thing. It seems like a lot of kids in that pick. Yeah.
00;41;54;16 - 00;42;16;28
Unknown
Okay. So you're pregnant. You're figuring a lot out in this pregnancy. Yeah. Your business is popping off. You're moving international. I mean, that's a lot. That's a lot of stuff. It was a lot. It was a lot to manage. Like, retrospectively, I'm like, yeah, that was a lot. I don't know, I tend to like once I get to the second trimester, I do have a lot of energy.
00;42;17;02 - 00;42;54;00
Unknown
And so I kind of just knew I was channeling that in a particular way. And we ended up we left Kansas City around the time I was like 34 weeks, 33, 34 weeks and had everything set up for us to be in Costa Rica. And yeah, I wanted to use those last six plus weeks or whatever it was going to be to just really settle in, get my kids into this like little or little jungle school and organize things like, yeah, just all the things that need to happen when you move to a new country.
00;42;54;02 - 00;43;17;06
Unknown
We had to buy a car. And yeah, lots of things had to happen and I was still working, I would say up until about 37 weeks. And that's usually when I like, really try to slow things down and take more time off. And yeah, it was like similar to desis birth in the way that I started feeling things, you know, at 36, 37 weeks.
00;43;17;06 - 00;43;47;13
Unknown
It's like, okay, I'm really kind of starting to like slip into another realm at times. And sometimes that would last like just a few minutes, and sometimes that would be like a couple hours. And then I would be like in normal day to day mode again. And that's always such an interesting time because it's like birth could be really far away or it could be today, I don't know, be in it right now, birthing now, you know, and then it's just like it fades in and out so much.
00;43;47;13 - 00;44;18;06
Unknown
And it really did with with Emory's birth of just like, I don't know, I could be in it, I could be fine. And then often it would obviously, you know, I stayed in that kind of in and out process for several weeks and you're like, well, I just feel like I'm really in the waves. I'm super emotional. I just have to lay down and then like the next day I'd be like, okay, let's go to the beach, and I take all the kids to the beach and like, do a whole thing and like, go get insurance for the car, do whatever needed to be done.
00;44;18;13 - 00;44;35;04
Unknown
And so it's like a lot of that and you just have to I think what you just have to be in the present moment and like, forget the rest, you know, and not try to plan a lot. And, you know, we would try to make plans with friends and I'd be like, yeah, let's plan on that. And like, if I can't come, I'll let you know, you know, like that kind of thing.
00;44;35;05 - 00;45;04;02
Unknown
Like we did a lot of meetups and different things that with the community that we were kind of getting into. And yeah, it was really hot, obviously. I mean, coming from Kansas City, Kansas City in the summer is also very hot. But living in the jungle is like a different kind of heat. And so we were living pretty close to the coast, about 20 minutes from the beach, and we had a little bit of elevation, but it's still just really, really hot.
00;45;04;02 - 00;45;23;19
Unknown
And so I had more swelling at the end of that pregnancy than any of my others, but I just contributed it to like the heat and walking on tile floor all the time. So I had never had a pregnancy where I was walking on tile floor all the time. So yeah, I laid down. I rested a lot when I needed to.
00;45;23;20 - 00;45;42;15
Unknown
I, you know, stayed in a cool AC room as much as needed. And I went to the river a lot because we lived kind of close to this river crossing, and there was a nice little swimming spot. And so that water is much cooler than the ocean water. So I would go to the river and just like float or submerge.
00;45;42;15 - 00;46;05;13
Unknown
And that always really helped with mitigating that, like pregnancy heat that can kind of yeah, just be at the end of pregnancy. And yeah, that's kind of how I spent those last weeks. I got some help like I got I had help, which was great. So once we settled, like I hired someone to help with the house to help with the kids.
00;46;05;15 - 00;46;26;29
Unknown
I was working with a postpartum doula. And she was also she also does meals like meal prep. And so I got some meals and I had that a little bit of help there. So yeah, just really invited in as much help as I needed, like having just done the transition, plus having three kids that like needed a lot of different things.
00;46;27;00 - 00;47;09;08
Unknown
Yeah. And yeah, that's kind of what was going on at the end of my pregnancy. All right. Tell us your birth story. Yeah. So like I said, it was like off and on with contractions, waves, whatever, you know, was it was clear, like I was approaching the birth portal. And I remember, you know, at the, at the very last week or so, week or two, I would say I just, you know, I felt really kind of not here or there like really kind of just laying down a lot not oriented to like the normal day to day reality.
00;47;09;10 - 00;47;31;29
Unknown
And that was when I think I shared this maybe with you before we started the recording, but that was when I also transitioned my toddler to sleep with my husband. So I had like this. I had the nights to myself, which I hadn't had in a really long time, and I was just like, oh my God, like, the kids go to bed early and then I would like, read or watch a movie or.
00;47;32;01 - 00;47;54;01
Unknown
Yeah, just like enjoy that. I was kind of on my own and I and I slept alone to those last few weeks, and I wasn't sleeping great, so I was up a lot. But just the fact that I like, had my own space for those few weeks was really great and really helped me kind of get in the right headspace for like, birthing again and all that comes with that, getting ready to take care of a baby again.
00;47;54;02 - 00;48;23;21
Unknown
And so I was actively desiring that my birth would unfold at night because, yeah, I had never had a nighttime birth and I had three kids and I'm like, well, they're just going to be here. So mine as well be at night when they're sleeping. And that ended up being what happened. So I, I woke up at like 2 a.m. and I was like, okay, here are the contractions again.
00;48;23;22 - 00;48;43;03
Unknown
Probably it'll go away in like 45 minutes. And so I laid I went to the bathroom, I laid back down, put on some music or something that I was listening to, and it was just like, I'm going to go back to sleep like, this is what's happening. I'm going back to sleep. And I was like 39 and 39 weeks in six days or something.
00;48;43;03 - 00;49;08;17
Unknown
And so I personally inside I was like, I have another week to go and that's that. And I'm just gonna I'm tired and it's and I tried to sleep, couldn't sleep, couldn't sleep. And I wasn't getting that many contractions. But when I would get them I was like, whoa, okay, this is pretty intense. And so then I eventually I got up.
00;49;08;18 - 00;49;30;06
Unknown
I got a snack. I walked around a little bit, I did some pacing, and I was like, okay, I could probably still go back to sleep. And so then it's like 330 and I'm like, I'm gonna try again, go back to sleep. Lights off. Like listening to something propped up on this particular pillow situation that I needed at that time.
00;49;30;09 - 00;49;51;21
Unknown
Still couldn't sleep. Okay. This went on for like another hour. And then I got up to go to the bathroom and I was like, oh, there's like a little bit of blood. Some probably gonna have the baby today. And then it's like 430 and I'm still fine on my own. I don't want to wake my husband up yet, because I knew he's sleeping with the kids in the other room and I have to go in.
00;49;51;23 - 00;50;11;15
Unknown
It's like likely that I'd wake. I don't want to wake everyone up. Like, no, I'm not doing that. And I was like, quiet and nice. And so I just like started getting my birthing space ready, just like on my own, just like in a very relaxed way, like, okay, I want to get this blanket out and I'm going to get get myself some more water, like just the basics.
00;50;11;15 - 00;50;34;21
Unknown
And by five it was like barely starting to get light, I think. And I was like, okay, this is getting pretty intense. I think I'm going to wake up my husband. And I figure by that time it's like, it's 5 a.m. if the kids get up, like it's not ideal, but it's fine. And so I kind of this part is kind of funny.
00;50;34;21 - 00;50;58;23
Unknown
I like stumble into the room and we hadn't lived there that long. So it's not like I really knew the space, like super well in the dark. And I remember I couldn't been down, so I just and my husband's kind of laying on this floor mattress because he's with all three kids, and I just kind of kick his foot several times and I'm like, get up, get up.
00;50;58;23 - 00;51;14;22
Unknown
And then I just walked out because I was like, I got to get back to, like, where I can be on all fours, because that was the thing that was working. And so he luckily he did respond to that. He came out and like came into the other room and I was like, yeah, we're going to have this baby.
00;51;14;25 - 00;51;34;04
Unknown
And so then he's kind of going into his like get things ready mode, and he's just making sure I have water and all the stuff and ask me if I need anything. And I was on the bed and off the bed and I was kind of like in different places. But what was working was kind of standing up and leaning over the bed.
00;51;34;10 - 00;52;03;24
Unknown
So I was doing that. And I in my mind, I'm like, I probably have like 4 or 5 hours to go for, I don't know, for whatever reason. That's what I thought in my mind. And then I was like, man, I just feel like a ton of pressure, like what is going on? Like my tailbone is so like, I don't know, just like there's so much pressure on my tailbone.
00;52;03;24 - 00;52;22;04
Unknown
And I was like, okay, well, I'm just going to feel and see like what's going on inside. So I put my hand in like just, I don't know, one knuckle inside of my vagina. I was like, oh, there's the baby's head, okay. And so this is probably like 520 or 530. And so I tell Thomas and I'm like, oh, the baby's head is right there.
00;52;22;05 - 00;52;42;14
Unknown
Like the baby's coming out. He's like, okay, great, you're doing great. You know, all the stuff. And I had to have no. What did I do? Yeah, I think I needed help, just like getting my clothes all the way off at that point. And then I had set up, like this birthing pad or I don't know what else to call it.
00;52;42;16 - 00;53;00;10
Unknown
Like, I had set up like a mat and some chucks, pads and stuff and towels at the end of the bed on the floor because for some reason, just like being against the hard surface was what I needed at that point. It was we had a birth tub. It was like way beyond, we're not going to set that up.
00;53;00;11 - 00;53;35;08
Unknown
Yeah, like we're not doing any of that. It's like, that's over. And yeah, he just like came out just as the other side. I think I had one knee down, one knee up or one leg up, but I had mostly birthed on hands and knees this time. Like I spent a lot of time on hands and knees. And then he came out with just a few pushes, like just kind of naturally, I mean, not not me actively pushing, but just like, kind of fetal ejection reflex style.
00;53;35;10 - 00;53;52;25
Unknown
Yeah. He just came out right onto the floor and into my arms. And I was super surprised that it was a boy. So I was I think the first thing I said to him was like, wow, you surprised mommy so much. You're like a little boy. And he was just so robust and, let out a little cry right away.
00;53;52;25 - 00;54;13;10
Unknown
And and yeah, I just sat there with him on the floor and it was just my husband and myself at that time. My other kids had stayed asleep, which was like, fantastic. Yeah, nice. And after a few minutes I was like, let's get the kids. And so Thomas went and like woke them up and they came in and they were like, whoa, we have a new brother.
00;54;13;12 - 00;54;40;16
Unknown
They're like, what just happened? So, you know, he's the kids are meeting him and he's just in my arms. And and then I was kind of just sitting like on my heels or something. It was not the most comfortable position. And then I realized, okay, and I need a Bertha placenta. I'm noticing there's like a trickle of blood and that's I usually I mean, all my placenta bursts have been easy.
00;54;40;17 - 00;55;04;16
Unknown
They've always been within like ten, 15 minutes of the actual birth. And so that wasn't unusual. And so then I was like, okay, let's get the ball, I'll deliver the placenta. And so I did that and I would say like around that time I was like, well, that's quite a bit of blood. Okay. And at that point I was like, I should probably lie down.
00;55;04;16 - 00;55;23;21
Unknown
And so I just had my husband help me to the bed and I lied on the bed and it was already like, ready. And I had the baby. And I was like, okay, I'll just start nursing the baby and and like, seeing him, taking him in all of that. And so I was doing that. And then I was like, still feeling some gushes of blood.
00;55;23;21 - 00;55;45;20
Unknown
And it was like, that's quite more than I'm used to. Or then I can remember and I felt like, okay, I'm, I don't want to lose a lot of blood just in general. Like, I know that our blood is, like, so essential. And of course, it's normal to let to release blood with birth. And this is more than I've ever released, right?
00;55;45;21 - 00;56;09;16
Unknown
I could see that. I could feel that. And how were you? So then I start feeling wise. I mean, at that point, I think I was just kind of on that birth high. But I was also very surprised. I was very surprised by how fast the birth was. And I was kind of Shockey in that way of like, whoa, like that just happened.
00;56;09;16 - 00;56;35;05
Unknown
And like it was maybe a little bit quicker than I anticipated. So I think there was a lot of things going on, like one I just needed like integration with coming back into my body and being like a little more present and being like, wow, okay. That was like a little bit faster than I had anticipated. And then I also just needed like the physical support, like, okay, I hadn't slept, I hadn't eaten in a long time.
00;56;35;09 - 00;56;56;18
Unknown
I mean, not that long, but like relative to, you know, my other births. So there was just like a lot of factors. And then yeah, I was like still gushing and I was like, okay, I'm going to take a little bit of the placenta in my mouth. So I was doing a lot of the things that I had either supported other women in doing or knew that we're good to do.
00;56;56;18 - 00;57;20;04
Unknown
And then I hit a point where I was like, okay, I'm just really feeling tired and like not feeling great, and I want this to stop. I remember just thinking, like, I need this to stop now, and I'm going to do something to to like, facilitate that. And so then I'm talking to my husband. He's staying totally calm.
00;57;20;04 - 00;57;40;13
Unknown
He's like, you're fine. Like, you know what can I get you? What can we do? And then I'm like, okay, I'm going to reach out to a couple of women. So I reached out to you. But I think first I actually reached out to the local community because there's like this local birth worker group in Costa Rica, in the South Pacific zone where I was living.
00;57;40;13 - 00;57;48;13
Unknown
And just to be clear, midwifery in Costa Rica is all underground and.
00;57;48;15 - 00;58;16;09
Unknown
Yeah, it's it's very unusual to birth at home there. And it's there's lots of legality stuff around it. But of course you can always birth at home. Like it's not illegal necessarily. So all the birth workers there are not licensed, if that makes sense. So I reached out to a local group that I was in saying like, hey, I could maybe use some help.
00;58;16;12 - 00;58;32;16
Unknown
This is where I am. Like, I knew some of the women in the group already. I didn't know everyone in that group, so that kind of got activated right away. I had some people reaching out to me, and then I contacted Nancy and you, and I think I tried to call both of you. Nancy didn't answer, and I called you, and I was like, she's not going to answer.
00;58;32;17 - 00;58;49;18
Unknown
Like, it's, I don't know, 7 a.m. there on Eastern Time or something like that. 6 a.m. and you did you like, picked up I think right away, like the first time I called you and I was like, hey, this is what's going on. Like I'm bleeding quite a bit. I'm having a lot of gushing. These are the things I'm doing.
00;58;49;19 - 00;59;09;08
Unknown
It's like not stopping. I'm feeling kind of scared. And I basically was just like, what I, what I feel like I needed to receive is just like someone walking through the things with me, like, okay, did you do this? Did you do this like, did you do this? How are you feeling? Like, that's basically what I was needing.
00;59;09;13 - 00;59;31;27
Unknown
And I don't know, I think we stayed on the you and I seen on the phone together for at least half an hour, maybe more, 45 minutes, something like that, like 45 minutes an hour. And it did it just like slowly, it did slowly subside. And there was one thing that I mean, I did homeopathic, I did I had the placenta in my mouth.
00;59;31;29 - 00;59;55;06
Unknown
I did not do herbs like I just I don't keep herbs on hand for that particular reason for that thing. But it was when you were talking, we were talking and you were like, how's is how's your womb feel? And I was like, that was part of the problem is, like, I could feel that it was firm. And I knew obviously to feel it and I could feel that it was firm and then it would be lax.
00;59;55;06 - 01;00;15;26
Unknown
And I was like, oh gosh, that's not good. So I was trying to kind of hold it myself and not do like, fun. No massage, not like really dig in there or anything, but just like bring a little more awareness to that. And it was you that said like, no. Or maybe it was Sister Morningstar who was like telling you or something.
01;00;15;26 - 01;00;42;18
Unknown
It was like some web that was created around me. And Sister Morningstar, I think, told you she was like, no, the partner has to do her. Someone else has to do it, essentially. And so I remember there was this one, like really like clear moment where my husband came because you were like, no, Thomas, you got to try to do it and feel where her fundus is and like apply a little pressure like hold it.
01;00;42;18 - 01;01;10;20
Unknown
And so then I'm showing Thomas like, here it is. I'm like holding his hand on my body first and then I'm letting him do it. And in that moment, I don't know, just something coalesced like I had the containment that I needed. He just his presence. Like, I can still feel it right now if I just, like, drop in, I'm like, I can feel exactly how his his hand felt there, like how warm it was, the pressure he was using.
01;01;10;25 - 01;01;33;22
Unknown
And I just felt my womb contract fully and like I was like, okay, this is like complete. It's not going to be that. That doesn't mean I'm going to be feeling great in this moment. But like, I knew the spiral of that was over, if that makes sense. Like, I knew that it was that part of the story was complete.
01;01;33;24 - 01;02;06;23
Unknown
Yeah, I mean, I don't I wonder if you'd agree with me. But like when I think about your story and your year and landing there and your personality and your fourth kid and like when I, when I see all of it from kind of like a 30,000ft view, when I picture him putting his hands on your womb after having reached out for help and support to your web.
01;02;06;25 - 01;02;32;29
Unknown
It's like the word I just hear is like receive, you know? And you are. You're such as? As many mothers are. You're such a I got it, you know, like you said it earlier with Avani there in in that birth of just like. No, it's fine, it's fine, I got it. And there's something so big about like you trying to do it and it not really clicking.
01;02;32;29 - 01;03;10;23
Unknown
And then you're beloved, you know, really being the grounded warmth to your womb. It's just like, so beautiful. It's a beautiful like completion and acceptance and receiving and allowing. And it's so deep. It's also so like simple and basic and so, you know. Yeah. And yeah, that was sister because I was on the phone with you, but texting with her and yo to just like you said, like a web, just to see if I'm missing anything and like, am I.
01;03;10;24 - 01;03;45;10
Unknown
Is there any other, is there any other tips I should be passing and and so yeah, that was I mean, that's what's so fun about this kind of lineage of birth work. I mean, I hope all birth workers have it. But this like, you know, like it is a web if like, you're with the mom and you have people with you and they have people with them and like, that's how it's meant to be so that no one's ever, like, alone on a on an end, you know?
01;03;45;12 - 01;04;15;20
Unknown
Yeah. But anyway, I mean, I felt very honored that you reached out and was really happy to hold that space with you. I also, as you retell the story, feel like, yeah, just like real sadness around this funnel massage thing and how it's been co-opted and weaponized against women because what you experienced was so true and so real and so nurturing.
01;04;15;23 - 01;04;36;22
Unknown
And and like you said, was actually the thing that completed that spiral. But most women hearing this story will have only known fondle abuse. Yeah. And like and I.
01;04;36;25 - 01;05;06;03
Unknown
No. Go ahead. Sorry. Just it completely negates the I mean touch you know, like touch is, is so important loving respectful touch. And it's obviously not what women get in captivity. And when they birth with strangers and misogynists and perverts and all of what's happening in the hospital, you know, but but the the, the touch he gave you is what regulated your system.
01;05;06;09 - 01;05;27;11
Unknown
And it wasn't something that you could do yourself in that moment. It's just so powerful to touch it is. Yeah. And it's it's like he was and I mean, I think this is clear in the way I said it, but like, I mean, it wasn't like a deep pressure or like a pain or a pushing or any of that.
01;05;27;11 - 01;05;53;18
Unknown
It was literally just like warmth, a little bit of like a hold, you know, and I was just like, whoa, that was that was the thing. And it was powerful. And you're totally right is like, I had been, yeah. Just like doing so much, holding so much. And as many mothers are, especially mothers with multiple children, it's just like your capacity is expanding all the time.
01;05;53;18 - 01;06;23;01
Unknown
And and it's like, okay, that was really the that birth and that part of the birth in particular. Because also, you know, of course I rest in the postpartum period. And I've always been like really dedicated to that. And like looking back on it, it hasn't necessarily been because I had to do, you know what I mean? Like physically like I was doing it as a practice and like it definitely helped me regain my vitality and all of that.
01;06;23;01 - 01;06;39;10
Unknown
But with this fourth time, it was like, no, like, I'm can't leave the bed. Like that's the physical reality is like, I was not getting up to shower that day, which I had done with all my previous bursts. I had like been like, okay, you just I'm going to shower really quick and then I'll be back in bed with a baby.
01;06;39;12 - 01;07;02;19
Unknown
Like that was not happening. It was just really humbling in that way, and I was glad that I had the support. I had a local birth worker come over to me that same day and like check in. And she was so sweet and like, I was like, yes, this is what I actually needed. And like, my body created these circumstances that I could receive a little bit more than I had anticipated.
01;07;02;21 - 01;07;36;20
Unknown
And that was it. It was like sister talks about, you know, one of the, you know, like, forgive me, sister, if I butcher your beautiful way of explaining this, but she talks about the dangers or downfalls, pitfalls of blood transfusions, is that it shortcuts and bandaids exactly what you're talking about. And that when a woman. Yeah, when a woman bleeds and is is depleted after birth, which isn't everyone, right.
01;07;36;22 - 01;08;08;09
Unknown
But it is some women. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's not bad, you know any of that. But there's a wisdom in it to the deeper spiritual context of receiving and resting and all of these things that otherwise you probably wouldn't do. And by you, I mean, like whoever we're talking about and when you do the blood transfusion, I wish I could remember exactly how she she says it, which obviously you weren't going to do because you free birth, but like most women don't.
01;08;08;12 - 01;08;32;28
Unknown
And that when you get a blood transfusion you're overriding your need for rest and community care. And so when don't get they like miss out on the thing that their bodies wisdom was trying to help them call in, which was community care, I love that. Yeah, yeah. And that was it was like, whoa. Yeah. I've it was that reminder.
01;08;32;28 - 01;08;52;26
Unknown
It was like, okay, I've been over over functioning in some ways. And like of course we all do that at times. And it's like we hope there's an end in sight. And then it's like, does that endeavor come? I don't know. And I was like, okay, I really have to just receive. And so that looked I mean, my postpartum looked different than it did with my others.
01;08;52;26 - 01;09;19;00
Unknown
Not in a big way, but it was like getting up to go to the bathroom was like pretty big deal those first few days. Like, I didn't do much of it. Like I had blood all over me for several days, like I, you know, I had someone help me, like, wipe it off and stuff, but, like, I didn't take a shower for the first few days in that first shower that I did take my postpartum doula, like, set up a chair in the shower so I could, like, sit in the shower.
01;09;19;02 - 01;09;39;24
Unknown
And I was like, these are all things, you know, I hadn't experienced before because I bled like I released the placenta. A little bit of blood came out, and then I was like, I'm gonna get in the shower, lay down, you know? But that was just not my reality. And, yeah, I just learned a lot about rebuilding your blood after that kind of release.
01;09;39;24 - 01;10;16;09
Unknown
And, I recovered well, like, within four weeks, I would say. But it definitely took me a little bit longer than my previous births. Not. Not for my, like, vaginal tissues or anything. That all felt good, but just for my energy level. Just like my day to day. Yeah. Energy level. It's it's the same with with suturing versus not, you know, it's the same like principle of the wisdom in a tear should you choose to take this on and why?
01;10;16;09 - 01;10;45;03
Unknown
I one of the reasons why I would never suture someone's perennial and one of the big reasons, actually, I chose the birth witnessing that I did. You know that is so non non-medical is the wisdom I've seen in the tear and how it keeps your ass in bed, you know, and how if you keep getting up, you know, if you get up without sutures, you know you're going to reopen it and all of this stuff.
01;10;45;04 - 01;11;07;07
Unknown
And, and when you suture, you're overriding this body wisdom of postpartum, which is to chill the f out and to and to not go do the dishes, you know, and I've been in so many conversations with midwives who do suture, who are like, yeah. And then the other side of that is like, they're going to do the dishes no matter what.
01;11;07;07 - 01;11;34;10
Unknown
And so I want to help it be easier for them. It's like, okay that's fine. Like to each their own obviously. But for me, I just wouldn't feel right about that because I'd rather see if I can invite her. And it's not just a it's not just like a pitch, like you'd need to be really prepared again for the same thing, community support and receiving, because it's a big deal to have a bad or large tear.
01;11;34;10 - 01;11;58;18
Unknown
And it's going to take probably three times the length of time you want it to, and it absolutely can reopen. And you know, it sucks. It's hard. And the one response to it is to rest, which, yeah, I just think there's so much wisdom in it. Just like, you know, it's like, doesn't surprise me that your fourth baby moving to Costa Rica, you're over functioning like did it.
01;11;58;24 - 01;12;21;15
Unknown
What wisdom your body demanded you practice, you know, because it would have been so easy to not. Yeah. Totally. So. Yeah. And then there's something else I want to say about that immediate postpartum time. And just like the first couple of days. So, you know, like when I'm talking, I'm talking to you on the phone, I'm like messaging with some local women.
01;12;21;17 - 01;12;49;01
Unknown
And I mean, you know, I was scared. And at the same time, it was like leaving. I could recognize that leaving home would have been like the worst possible option. Like, you know, it would have made things worse, essentially. Like it didn't make any sense to me. And I'm like, I can't imagine. Or I guess I can't imagine.
01;12;49;01 - 01;13;08;22
Unknown
It's like if I would have had that amount of blood loss in a medical setting, like, that's kind of considered an emergency. Or, you know, I definitely would have gotten pitocin and all this stuff and that, just that cascade it like reiterates the the fear. Right? It's like reiterating like, oh yeah, this is something you should be afraid of.
01;13;08;23 - 01;13;35;11
Unknown
It isn't it isn't good like all that. And I'm like, wow, you can really like, see how quickly that kind of train of thought and that Cascade Falls and how damaging or how much it impacts, like the mother baby connection in those first hours and just all the things. And, you know, this was something that happened and I would say, like within, you know, he was born at five something 550 or something like that.
01;13;35;11 - 01;14;00;04
Unknown
And within 24 hours it was like integrated, kind of complete. It wasn't something I needed to spend a lot of time thinking about. And I just know that for so many women in the medical system, like that is just so far from the reality of any anything that happens during their birth that they can take with them for such a long period of time.
01;14;00;06 - 01;14;28;04
Unknown
Well, it's part of its in large part kind of summarize or gives an example of why we free birth, you know, which is really hard for, for certain people of, of, you know, of medicalized, you know, indoctrinated consciousness to understand because they're going to hear this and it's like, well, you got really lucky. I'm not trying at all to downplay the seriousness of a potential real hemorrhage.
01;14;28;04 - 01;15;07;06
Unknown
And at all. I'm not trying to downplay that. And this is why this conversation is really delicate and complicated, because what is normal is often treated as not normal or in as an emergency. And we know that what you went through was normal. We know it. Right? Yeah. I mean, there's a lot to unpack there. And like, you know, it's hard for me to imagine, like, if I would have experienced this in the medical model and then gone on to have, you know, subsequent pregnancies and births, like what that would look like.
01;15;07;09 - 01;15;33;06
Unknown
But what I can say is just like, you know, birth does always bring some unexpected or often bring some unexpected element to it. And it's for me, it's always been like the thing I never would have thought of. I think maybe with my third there was less of that. I didn't really experienced much unexpected in that birth. Besides the fact that I planned to, like, thought I would birth in water again, but didn't.
01;15;33;12 - 01;15;54;10
Unknown
But with this one, it's like I had a story about myself that I not a bleeder, you know, and so interesting. Like I've never had heavy periods, I've never had not had a lot of postpartum bleeding. I'm usually done with my postpartum bleeding within two weeks. And so this happened and it was like, whoa, that was not what I expected.
01;15;54;10 - 01;16;17;02
Unknown
And I think like we were saying, it's like my body kind of orchestrated this because I did need to go into a season of like really receiving care and care specifically from women. So it was my husband that came in and like we had that, that special resolution, like in the moment. But then in the following weeks, it was like I was receiving care from the postpartum doula.
01;16;17;02 - 01;16;49;16
Unknown
That was like coming to my home twice a week. And like that was really nourishment that I needed. And I already had that set up. I was going to receive that either way, but I was being called to like, receive it in the deepest way possible. Yeah. And just getting to that, like raw, like there is no shortcuts, which is part of the free birth, you know, commitment I think is like, yeah, really, really.
01;16;49;17 - 01;17;09;01
Unknown
I mean there's so many layers. It's not I am not a spokesperson at all for every person who chooses free birth. But for myself, that is part of the interest and commitment in it is like what you got for me? Like what? What's here for me to learn and what's here for me to to see differently and what stories do I need to confront.
01;17;09;01 - 01;17;39;24
Unknown
And there are no shortcuts doing it this way. It's very raw. No. Yeah. Like spiritually raw. Yeah. Yeah. Well, anything else you want to say to to wrap this up? He's he's what? You said nine months or so. I got to meet him at MRF. He's so bright and beautiful. He was so sweet. Yeah. Sweet. Yeah. Nothing else to add right now.
01;17;39;26 - 01;17;59;24
Unknown
Yeah. I mean, just like it's always good to have postpartum support and, you know, just to have other women around you. Like, even if you are choosing a birth alone, like, I think it is in our nature to have these webs of support around us that we can tap into. And just cultivating that is really, really so helpful in nourishing.
01;17;59;28 - 01;18;26;27
Unknown
Yeah. And if you're hearing that being like, well, I don't have anyone, you know, that is why we have The Lighthouse, which is our online community. It is not it is not a replacement for in person. But if you don't have anyone in person, it's definitely better than nothing. You know, it's it's really something to consider. We literally create spaces for you to connect with women like this.
01;18;26;27 - 01;18;47;11
Unknown
Women are virtually supporting each other all over. Women are finding each other, having circles, you know, put some effort into it, whether it's joining the lighthouse or not, I don't care. That's just here for you. And we have the directory as well. But there, you know, there is more available to you. You just have to put some effort in and oh my gosh, if so, worth it.
01;18;47;11 - 01;19;19;09
Unknown
Just having someone you can call having a web around you, you just you deserve it. And it doesn't just get offered to you, you have to really consciously co-create it, but you deserve it. I can't imagine not having it. I know, so true. Love you. Yeah. Thanks for having me again. Always, always and forever. Okay, well, we're going to put the show notes of previous episodes.
01;19;19;09 - 01;19;40;12
Unknown
Blood Mystery School, the stuff that you do. We will put your Instagram. You know, all the ways to find you, follow you. And. Yeah, I appreciate your time. Yeah. Thanks for having me, Emily. All right, women, I hope you enjoyed the show today. You can support this podcast by donating to it through the link in the show notes below.
01;19;40;12 - 01;20;04;02
Unknown
And of course, leaving an awesome review on whatever platform you listen on. The more reviews, the more visibility the show gets. So let's spread the good word of free birth. Don't forget, you can watch all of my podcast interviews on YouTube and see the women as they tell their birth and power stories. And you will also find our viral free worth collection of epic Raw Birth videos on our YouTube channel.
01;20;04;02 - 01;20;25;07
Unknown
So make sure you're subscribed! We always have a lot going on at Free Birth Society, and you can find out about all of it at Free Birth Society. And I am at Free Birth Society on Instagram. Please opt in to my newsletter below so that you don't miss a thing. We offer courses on free birth, sovereign birth work as well as one on one coaching women's retreats so much.
01;20;25;10 - 01;20;49;03
Unknown
Our exclusive private vetted membership. The Lighthouse is definitely something to check out. If you are looking for a community of wise sisters to get guidance from and to meet in real life. Together we rise. Sisters. We must speak our stories fully, claim our lives, and support one another. This is the living revolution and I am so grateful to be in it with all of you.
01;20;49;07 - 01;20;50;13
Unknown
Till next time.
