00;00;02;15 - 00;00;38;22
Unknown
Hi women. Before we dive in today, I need to name something important. This episode, along with all episodes that you will hear until our winter break in mid-December, was recorded before my birth prior to mid-August. Since then, our family has walked through the unimaginable. Our son was stillborn and we are in deep mourning as the shows air, you'll hear and see me pregnant, which now feels incredibly painful and weird.
00;00;38;25 - 00;01;08;23
Unknown
Given that you are holding the sacred knowledge of what came after. So please forgive the dissonance. These stories still deserve to be shared and heard. We welcome your prayers, your loving thoughts, and your support as we navigate this spiral of such deep grief. I hope you find resonance and nourishment in this conversation today. Thank you. Welcome to Free Birth Society.
00;01;08;23 - 00;01;36;29
Unknown
I'm Emilee Saldaya, and this is where we break the spell of medicalized birth. Remember what's been forgotten and rise together into our birthright to live birth and mother as sovereign women. All right, we're diving in. Rachel. Sweet. Welcome. Thank you all. So, yeah, I'm excited to have you here. And you know your and I is pre to this episode.
00;01;36;29 - 00;02;06;20
Unknown
Connection is a well in some ways a tragic one. And also about the birth of your child which is not tragic you know. But I just feel like I need to name out the gates the thing that connected us, you know, which was we had a graduate from our BCC, a very beloved woman named Candace, who was your birth keeper out in Colorado.
00;02;06;23 - 00;02;53;29
Unknown
And she got hit and killed in a car accident nine days before you gave birth. Is that accurate? Nine days. So that was how I came to interact with you. Was finding out about her death and somehow connecting with you on Instagram. You know, with you about to birth your first baby and just us exploring, you know, if there was anything I could do to help you, you know, connect to someone else or anyway, we just lightly, you know, kept in touch through that.
00;02;53;29 - 00;03;25;04
Unknown
So yeah, I just want to name that from the beginning. And that's going to be a part of this conversation. And it's also not the whole story. And yeah, I'm excited to hear the, the more positive aspects of your beautiful free birth. But just like, wow, what a crazy career for you. What a crazy.
00;03;25;07 - 00;03;57;14
Unknown
Freaking thing to contend with right before you give birth that the woman you've grown to love and trust and and hold your hand through this initiation just got pulled from the world so suddenly. So I just feel like we should start there because it's so big. The most fascinating thing is in my first trimester, I had I actually my husband woke me up from a dream.
00;03;57;14 - 00;04;25;02
Unknown
I was crying and shaking and sweating and I, you know, he was really worried. So he woke me up. He was like, what is going on? And I was like, I just gave birth. I was all alone. There was nobody there like nobody. I was just by myself, me and the baby. And he was like, wow. And I remember going to Candace's house, you know, later that month and telling her about this.
00;04;25;02 - 00;04;52;04
Unknown
And she was just so sweet and so loving and so kind and like, reassuring me that that absolutely wouldn't happen, you know, but our fears come up and it's so good to feel our feelings and to talk about, you know, what we're experiencing. And we sat in her kitchen and had a conversation for 30 minutes of, you know, what that was really representing.
00;04;52;05 - 00;05;27;09
Unknown
And, you know, fast forward to nine days before I was going to give birth. And what a wild premonition I had. You know, like, I don't in a way, I'm so grateful for that dream because it oddly prepared me for what I was walking through in those nine days. But at the same time, just like, whoa, nothing could prepare you to go through that portal without your wise woman support.
00;05;27;12 - 00;05;31;27
Unknown
So yeah, that was a really.
00;05;32;00 - 00;05;55;11
Unknown
Sad to heartbreaking. I don't think I had cried that much the entire pregnancy, and for nine days I just sobbed because I didn't know what I was going to do. I had just met with Candace. We had all just been with her a few days prior, and she had just met with her, and she was thinking about, you know, having Candace be at Herbert.
00;05;55;13 - 00;06;15;13
Unknown
And I have no idea how or why, but my friend called me and said, it's 630 in the morning. She says, Candace died. I'm like, what? Like I'm not even out of bed yet. Like, I don't even like, I don't even know what you're saying to me. I'm like, there's no way. And so I just like it didn't even dawn on me.
00;06;15;13 - 00;06;43;22
Unknown
And once it hit like what she was saying, she stayed on the phone with me for like, probably two hours a while. I literally just uncontrollably stopped. And then I was like, I have to pull myself together because I'm going to like, go into labor. If I continue down this path of hysteria that I'm on. And so I need to get outside and get some fresh air and take a deep breath and, you know, just I don't even know what what?
00;06;43;22 - 00;07;26;00
Unknown
You're my head, I really don't. I was in a total panic, you know, I honestly was panicked. And I knew the hospital wasn't an option. I just I knew I was very headstrong of under no circumstances for me personally is the hospital and auction. I live in a rural area. I had a very traumatic experience growing up with my mother, working in an ob gyn office, and I had to unpack a lot of trauma from, you know, that alone throughout the whole pregnancy that I just wasn't going to hospital.
00;07;26;03 - 00;07;52;17
Unknown
And I had a dear friend who had free birth, who introduced me to the free birth Society. And, you know, she had said, I'll be there. You just call me. And I was like, okay, I don't know, you know? And I started putting some feelers out there because I just needed to know what my options were even. And I contacted one of Candace's cohorts.
00;07;52;17 - 00;08;15;21
Unknown
Her name is Audrey, and I had gotten a wild pregnancy journal from her many months ago, so I kind of knew her and she knew Candace. And so that that felt like a really safe place to start of, like, do you know anybody or I'm just like, beside myself right now and I don't really know why I'm reaching out to you.
00;08;15;25 - 00;08;50;09
Unknown
And I'm not really sure if that's how you and I ended up getting connected. But, you know, shortly after that, you and I started talking, and then it was just like these floodgates opened of women just pouring through my field of one after another. And I'm interviewing and I'm talking and some came to my house. Yeah, it, you know, I had a few women locally who work as birth keepers, who worked with Candace.
00;08;50;12 - 00;08;54;05
Unknown
Call me and say, hey.
00;08;54;08 - 00;09;32;04
Unknown
It was actually a really fascinating story they shared. Candace had left a prayer circle with these women, and the last words she spoke at that circle is she had asked everybody there to pray for me, and that I had a swift, easy, beautiful birth. And she got in her car with her mom and her aunt and was driving through some construction and had stopped, you know, at this line of construction, and that a truck came up behind her and she was dead instantly.
00;09;32;06 - 00;09;35;25
Unknown
So.
00;09;35;28 - 00;09;40;10
Unknown
Did her mom and her aunt survive?
00;09;40;12 - 00;10;00;16
Unknown
Yeah. I don't I'm not close enough with them to, like, know their full background. But yeah, she Candace was in the back seat. And so because it was a hit from behind she just. Yeah.
00;10;00;19 - 00;10;24;04
Unknown
Yeah. And so I had all these women so kind of pouring in you know, and so many amazing stories and so much just heartfelt connection was happening. And I just remember thinking to myself, like, you know, I watched our cow give birth earlier in the year, I think I'm just going to go in the field with the cow we call our mumma.
00;10;24;04 - 00;10;33;01
Unknown
And, you know, she seems like a pretty good birthing companion. Maybe I'll just give birth with the cow. And.
00;10;33;03 - 00;10;56;16
Unknown
None of the women just felt right, you know, they were lovely and wonderful, but I just didn't. I couldn't imagine having my birth disturbed in that way. I mean, it had already been disturbed in a sense, but to have it disturbed in the process of having somebody there that I didn't know that I hadn't built that relationship with, didn't feel right.
00;10;56;17 - 00;11;18;18
Unknown
That's a lot. That's a lot to attempt to forge in a very short time. So what did you decide to do? How does it what is the pivot? What is the new vision? Yeah, I don't really know that I ever came to one. I literally for nine days was just praying about what to do and.
00;11;18;21 - 00;11;30;07
Unknown
Felt like a deer in headlights for most of those nine days. Truly. Well. And I just remember when you and I connected.
00;11;30;10 - 00;11;50;13
Unknown
You know, it's not even that you said or did anything that grand, but it was just like the fact that you reached out and you're like, hey, no matter which way this goes, like you've got this and you know, you have all the support behind you and, and and think, really? In that moment I was like, you know what?
00;11;50;14 - 00;12;17;08
Unknown
Like, yeah, I'm not gonna I'm going to stop worrying about this. And whatever happens, happens. And so that Thursday night of the 13th, I was sitting at the dinner table. I had that gush of fluid come out and wasn't much, but I went to the bathroom and I was like, let's, let's check, see what's happening here. And it was, you know, I'd been having small little releases, but nothing major.
00;12;17;08 - 00;12;31;23
Unknown
And this wasn't much more, but it was a pinkish color and I was like, that's different. Well, and it was so interesting because my mom called me at that exact moment. Moms are just they know.
00;12;31;25 - 00;12;58;26
Unknown
I never called her back because I was like, you know, I'm just gonna go, nah. So I got in bed and I laid there. And that night I have felt Candace next to me, holding me all night long and looking back on it, I didn't realize that I had like, some period, like, cramps. You know, I didn't think anything of it that at the time.
00;12;58;26 - 00;13;20;22
Unknown
But I was having a little bit of cramping. And when I woke up the next morning, there was this really light rain. And I always associate rain with my grandfather. And he passed away many years ago. So it was like I felt Candace, I felt my grandfather. And I was like, well, I'm just gonna go about my day here.
00;13;20;22 - 00;13;44;00
Unknown
And I don't know, you know what to I've never done this. I don't know what to really expect, so I'm just going to carry on. Friend came and we went to the bakery and well, actually, before that I went outside to milk the cow. And I do that every morning except this morning. I was like holding on to this pole like every few minutes.
00;13;44;00 - 00;14;05;10
Unknown
And I just had to catch my and our neighbors had come to help us, you know, they knew we were in a birthing window and they have six children. So they came to help milk. And they kept looking at me and they're like, are you okay? I was like, I'm fine. They're like, can we pray for you? I was like, go right ahead.
00;14;05;11 - 00;14;28;25
Unknown
There's, you know, I'm pretty sure I'm I'm fine. I'm gonna be here for a while. So they said a really nice prayer and and I moved on by my day. I met the bakery with my friend and we were in line. And I just kept having to, like, hold on to the counter every few minutes just to, like, you know, take a deep breath.
00;14;28;27 - 00;14;53;19
Unknown
And I ran around me as like, hey, Rachel, it's going on. And I'm like, I'm just here to get some bread. I went to the grocery store. I don't even know what I went there for. I literally ended up getting lines like, I don't even know why I was there. But while I was there, I had a huge burst of fluid release and I.
00;14;53;22 - 00;15;20;07
Unknown
Okay, I'm going to go home now. I went home and like, did you get it on the grocery floor? I actually had a pat I put a pat on because of the fluid from the night before. So luckily you caught it, had caught it. But I think what's really funny is it must be something about that grocery store because my friend her water broke at that store to like a year prior.
00;15;20;07 - 00;15;43;24
Unknown
Oh that's fun. Yeah, well, I go home and my friend is like, can I do anything to help you get right? I mean, I'm like, home by myself, you know, my husband's at work, like, can I do anything for you? And I was like, no, there's nothing to see or do here. Like, it's no big deal. Yeah. She's like, looking at me like I'm half crazy and I'm looking at her like she's half crazy.
00;15;43;24 - 00;15;58;05
Unknown
And I was like, okay, you know what? We have this bathtub and the sides are really, really high, and it's super hard for me to get in and out of. If you feel like you have to do something, please clean. My back's up. So she happily.
00;15;58;07 - 00;16;20;11
Unknown
And I went and I stuck some towels by the bed and I'm like, you know, what more do I need? I have my whole day planned. I was going to make a row, so I was going to bake a cake like I was busy. So she left and I remember it took me like an hour to gather five ingredients in the kitchen and get my roast in the crock pot.
00;16;20;13 - 00;16;49;24
Unknown
You're high as a kite. Like, so high I don't even understand. You know, like I literally right. No clue what's happening. And the doula that worked with Candace had I'd been texting with her and you know, she's like, oh, it seems like it's coming along. You know, I can come over anytime if you want me to. I was like, no, I, I really think I could be here for like weeks, like I'm fine.
00;16;49;27 - 00;17;16;16
Unknown
Just, I appreciate it. And and then I decided, you know, I should take a little nap, just, you know, feeling tired. So I went and laid down, and I didn't really nap. I was kind of just like, tossing and turning and not in pain, but uncomfortable. And I got up and I ended up losing my mucus plug around 1230.
00;17;16;16 - 00;17;42;07
Unknown
And that's when Candace Dull, a friend, was like, it's starting. You're you're going in. She's like, I bet you'll have a baby by tonight. I was like, I don't think so. But those regrow like, you can literally regrow your mucus plug. I think I'm going to be here for like weeks like those regrow.
00;17;42;09 - 00;18;16;02
Unknown
That's a good mindset to have. And what gestation are you. And I was two days before my medical due date. But those are so arbitrary and usually about two weeks off. So I honest, honest to God thought there's it's not happening. I convinced myself and everyone was like, you should tell your husband to control. You know, he works 45 minutes to an hour away like you should call him.
00;18;16;04 - 00;18;39;05
Unknown
I was like, man, I feel really silly. It's what I call home and nothing happens. So I'm just going to not do that. And I finally I was like, all right, I'll just let him know that I lost my make a plug and he can choose from there. So I told him and his boss was like, you've got to get her to a hospital, like immediately.
00;18;39;05 - 00;19;01;07
Unknown
And, you know, he just looked at his boss and was like, thanks. He ended up leaving work but ran some errands. It took him like another three hours before he got home and he found me in the front yard. I have really, really long hair and actually it was even longer than this. I cut 16in off of it recently and so he found me in the yard.
00;19;01;07 - 00;19;27;27
Unknown
I had a hairbrush, like dangling out of my hair. I was like, I need some help. He's like, what are you doing? I was like, you have to brush. Tell me you were naked. Tell me you were naked. That would have been great. I wish, I wish I would have one with the couch and like, movie crazy lady.
00;19;27;29 - 00;19;56;12
Unknown
Literally. Yeah. So, you know, he's like, all right, well, I gotta go do this irrigation. I'll be back. And I just started laughing, like, maniacally. I was like, that's hilarious. You're not going anywhere. You have to brush my hair. I like, really need a shout right now. It's like, okay, so he kind of hairbrush and got me in the shower, and we have this, like, window in our shower and it's got this ledge.
00;19;56;13 - 00;20;16;22
Unknown
So just remember I was like, had my arms up on the ledge and I was kind of like hanging a little bit like dangling off of it. And the water was hitting my back and I was like, oh, this is amazing. I'm just so happy to be here. Thank you for coming home to help me shower, if nothing else, and I, I got out of the shower.
00;20;16;27 - 00;20;56;16
Unknown
I hadn't really eaten anything, but I wasn't hungry. And, you know, I still wasn't in any pain, so I. I literally didn't think anything of any of this. I was just like, I'm experiencing something. I don't know what, but I'm having some kind of experience because I'm not like, what else could it be? Now? I never really liked any of those practice contractions, so I just assumed that this was nothing like I was just having a moment of I don't know what.
00;20;56;17 - 00;21;22;21
Unknown
Like, you know, I think from all the trauma I heard from my mom working in an ob gyn office, like I was expecting this, like, onslaught of pain or like some kind of, like, in total, more than just, like, being feeling high, honestly, you know, like walking around and a hey, and, like, enjoying a hot shower. Yeah. I was like, there's no way this could be it.
00;21;22;22 - 00;21;53;02
Unknown
Like, this is lovely. I'm having a fun time here, you know, and I, I remember hearing my phone ring, my friend had called who had offered to be there. She was calling to check in, and I was so far gone in that portal, it was like aliens talking on another planet. Like I could kind of hear them. I really don't know what they were saying, but it took it took a while to register.
00;21;53;03 - 00;22;18;08
Unknown
I was like, oh, wait, that's my friend on the phone. They're asking if you want some support. And I finally was able to blurt out, yes! So she packed up. She had the birthing stool from a doula, and she packed up her seven month old baby and had headed this way. She was about an hour away too. So I just remember in that our being uncomfortable, you know, I was moving around.
00;22;18;09 - 00;22;44;14
Unknown
I couldn't get into any kind of comfortable position. I was like hanging off the side of our bed. I was just kind of like rolling around. Not nothing was working. And then my friend shows up and she brings a birthing stool, and the birthing stool had this. It was a terrible design. It had like a bar in the front.
00;22;44;14 - 00;23;05;24
Unknown
So it's like it was in the way. But I was just so grateful to like, have this seat to sit on, like it worked. And I just remember my husband, she had my husband, you know, get behind me. So he was kind of like hugging me from behind. And I was able to, like, press into him. And she put her baby down on the floor.
00;23;05;24 - 00;23;33;14
Unknown
Her baby was just like playing right next to me. And my friend commented about how calm the energy in the room was. Her first birth was like 57 hours of agony, and even her second birth I think was much shorter, but still like a, you know, intense display. And I was just kind of tripping, like literally my vision was fractal.
00;23;33;21 - 00;23;55;04
Unknown
I was on another planet, like having a good old time. And so by the time she got there and got me on the stool, she's like, on the floor. She's got her feet pressing into mine. And, you know, she's like, just keep pressing into my feet. And I have him behind me. So I feel like really braced and supported.
00;23;55;07 - 00;24;22;15
Unknown
And then all of a sudden I was like, you guys, you got to get me to the toilet. I have to poop. Like, really? And I reached down for some reason, and I felt down there and I was like, wait a minute, I haven't seen my vagina in several months, but there's no way that that is anything other than head of hair.
00;24;22;15 - 00;24;46;29
Unknown
And my friend looked and she's like, the baby's like, right there. I was like, what? Like, I literally didn't even know I went through transition well. And and my friend that morning had said to me, she was like, it's going to feel like the most glorious poop of your life. Rachel and I was I just kind of laughed and I was like, okay.
00;24;47;01 - 00;24;54;26
Unknown
And sure enough, like that moment, I was like, oh, I have to poop. Like, there she was.
00;24;54;29 - 00;25;10;11
Unknown
So I'm so shocked to feel this head of hair. Like, I literally I'm so shocked. And then all of a sudden we hear this. Go, go go. And I'm like.
00;25;10;13 - 00;25;37;16
Unknown
Looking. I'm like to my friend, I'm like, is there a baby on the floor? Like already? What is happening? She goes, no, that's the baby in the birth canal. I was like, okay. And then all of a sudden her heads out and she's sunny side up and she's wide eyed and she's looking at me and I'm looking at her and I'm holding her head.
00;25;37;16 - 00;26;12;04
Unknown
And she was like, singing or calling out to me from the birth canal. It was I never what? I've never heard anything of the sort. Anything. You're a baby inside your body was singing like a bird was calling. Nothing. Never heard of that. I literally it sounded like she wasn't crying. It was like a like a call, like calling out I, I can't what how is that even physically?
00;26;12;05 - 00;26;39;06
Unknown
But her head, like her mouth was out of your vagina. Not yet. She was still in there. But like we all heard it. I wasn't just the only one tripping like everybody heard it. Do you have this on video? Wish, you know, like I didn't want it. No. But now, because of what happened, I would. Yeah, well, you didn't know your unborn child was going to sing.
00;26;39;08 - 00;27;10;10
Unknown
No, but I did. My last pregnant. My last dream in pregnancy was that she came out talking in full sentences. And that she had the world's longest eyelashes and. Okay, wow. He has the world longs eyelashes. And in some sense, she was talking. Yeah, singing like a little bird. Okay. And I have no idea. I've literally never heard that in my life.
00;27;10;10 - 00;27;33;12
Unknown
I love it so you can see her because you're on the stool. So she's coming out and you can see over your belly, and she's facing up at you, serenading you wide eyed, like, totally calm and peaceful. Like we're just embracing each other. So, like, connection. I was like, okay. And, you know, I had said like, nobody touch her.
00;27;33;12 - 00;28;07;08
Unknown
I want to be the first. And so I was, you know, I had my hand on her head. And then my husband came around and put his hand there. And, I mean, I never really even pushed, like I legitimately was so baffled that I now have a baby's head in my hand and singing like, killing. And the next thing I know, her whole body is out and she's up and she's on my chest and she, like, instantaneously latched onto my left breast.
00;28;07;08 - 00;28;37;13
Unknown
And it took me probably three solid minutes before I realized, wait, I didn't even look. Is she a boy or a girl? Like, I was so blissed out, but I knew if she was a girl, they already knew that I knew from the beginning. And like halfway through, my husband tried to be like, it's a boy. And I'm like, okay, they do that just.
00;28;37;16 - 00;29;01;10
Unknown
Which is funny because he really wanted a girl like. So yeah, she was there and perfectly formed and happy and healthy. And she had a, I guess they call him like a stalk bite. She had a little red mark on her. Right. I and my mom, when she got there was like, you know, that's an angel kiss, right?
00;29;01;11 - 00;29;31;17
Unknown
And I was like, oh, really? So I, you know, assign the meaning that Candace gave her a kiss on the way out, which totally is really sweet. So, you know, this nine day whirlwind of the lowest of lows of this tragic death of Candace to this wild. I mean, from the time my waters fully opened, at the time she was there was like eight hours.
00;29;31;17 - 00;29;53;07
Unknown
It was nothing. I was just had a baby. Like it was no big deal. I never felt any, like, pain, really. I mean, it was intense, you know, these waves were intense, but they were not painful. I wasn't like, never at any point was like, I can't do this. I just was like, I'm going to be here forever.
00;29;53;09 - 00;29;57;20
Unknown
And. And then she was here.
00;29;57;22 - 00;30;20;06
Unknown
And and and then what happened? And how many people get to, like, say that they saw their best friend be born. Her little seven month old friend was just right there watching the whole thing. So that was pretty sweet. And it probably about 30 minutes later, my friend was like, hey, you should think about birthing the placenta. And I was like, what?
00;30;20;09 - 00;30;40;25
Unknown
You know, kind of like jostled me back down to earth a little bit. I was like, oh yeah, this isn't over. So I just, you know, tried to do a few different, you know, I thought I was going to cough and it was going to come right out. That didn't happen. I, you know, moved around a little bit.
00;30;41;01 - 00;31;06;04
Unknown
Nothing seemed to like, do anything. I remembered a podcast with you and Sister Morningstar where you talked about the cord. You know, as long as it's the mother doing it and giving a gentle tug. So I tried that. It didn't work and the bath was cleaned and drawn. So I was like, well, let's get in the bath and just change up the energy for a minute.
00;31;06;04 - 00;31;14;01
Unknown
And I, my friend, fed me the roast and made sure I was hydrated and.
00;31;14;03 - 00;31;46;18
Unknown
I mean, we're talking about an hour and a half later, nothing was happening. So I was like, well, I'm standing in the bathroom. The baby's still connected through the cord. He's holding her and I, I just remember, like, praying. I'm like praying. Please, like, let this be complete. I want to go lay down. And it was, you know, I don't know, 8 or 9 at night at this point I'm like, ready for bed and nothing's happening.
00;31;46;18 - 00;32;16;02
Unknown
And I finally I'm like pushing and roaring and like, actually working for the first time this whole birth. Like, finally I'm doing something and it just wasn't coming out. And I don't know, everyone started to panic a little bit of like, oh, you have to get it out right now. And I was like, why? Like, I don't like this energy, like leave the room if you can't handle it.
00;32;16;02 - 00;32;41;11
Unknown
But like, I'm not done here and I'm not inviting that into my space. There's nothing to worry about. And I was just standing there. I had the bowl between my legs. I finally just roared this thing out. But it was a lot of work and a lot of pushing and a lot of traction on my cord. And it was intense.
00;32;41;13 - 00;33;05;20
Unknown
Like that was honestly the most painful, intense part of the entire birth. And that part was not fun. And I just remember feeling such relief once it finally came out. And, you know, all this blood came gushing out with it. And I was like, it literally looked like a bloodbath in my bathroom. I was like, I'm just gonna leave all this here and get in the shower and then go lay down.
00;33;05;23 - 00;33;32;22
Unknown
So I did that and I ended up having like a pretty long recovery. I didn't tear, I, but I feel like it had to do with the placenta and birthing. So like kind of aggressively, you know, it wasn't just like I feel like I didn't just let it come on its own, you know? So in hindsight, do you wish you had approached it differently?
00;33;32;22 - 00;34;10;24
Unknown
I do, you know, even even now, 13.5 months later, I still feel tenderness in my womb. And I don't know if it's, you know, because of that or not, but I do wish I had just let it happen. I was I, you know, I love the pod. So I was listening to another interview. The one of these women I don't totally remember, she birth really early in a third world country, I think, and she ended up like her neighbor.
00;34;10;24 - 00;34;42;21
Unknown
I don't totally remember a story, but somebody like had her pee after giving birth and then she was able to get the placenta out and I was like, oh, I never I never even thought about it. I didn't even, like, feel like I had to pee. I didn't, you know, I didn't didn't go. So, you know, who knows if that would have changed anything or if I would have just, like, not worried about this arbitrary timeline that I thought I had to get it out quickly, and I just would have let it happen on its own if my healing would have been different.
00;34;42;21 - 00;35;09;03
Unknown
But it's obviously something that I think about, you know, and wonder, like, oh, I had like this peaceful, I wouldn't say like joy, bliss, but like, there wasn't pain, you know, like I had such an easy experience birthing my daughter and then to end it with such a like, intense roar to get the placenta out was so different, you know?
00;35;09;05 - 00;35;41;14
Unknown
Yeah. I'm wondering, like, playing out the different scenarios. It's like, okay. So one possibility is it was genuinely still attached to your uterus and you pulled it off. That's possible because it was at what, an hour and a half, two hours postpartum. Okay. So that's possible. And then another option would be that it was suctioning over the cervix.
00;35;41;16 - 00;36;16;04
Unknown
Does that make sense when I say that yeah it's possible. And so really having to pull and work I think if I have any other theories because I know that many women are surprised by how effortful the placenta delivery can be. Obviously the spectrum is so wide. And, you know, I've seen women literally looked down and be like, oh, it's out.
00;36;16;05 - 00;36;41;12
Unknown
And like, they didn't even feel it. That'd be, you know, on one end of the spectrum all the way to what you're describing. And so it's all normal. But yeah, I do wonder if obviously we'll never know. But like, I wonder if it just wasn't fully detached yet and if you just needed another 15 minutes, 30 minutes, I mean, who knows?
00;36;41;16 - 00;37;16;11
Unknown
Or maybe it was a full bladder. I don't know though. Like if you didn't feel like you needed to pee, I mean, an empty bottle is going to help, but I don't know why that would make it, like, so hard, right? Or it could genuinely have just needed some effort. And because your orientation to the previous 8 to 10 hours was so gentle and so like in such a receptive, you know, to like switch gears, but it sounds like there was fear in the room and there was this sense of a timeline, which sucks, obviously.
00;37;16;11 - 00;37;50;17
Unknown
And that does that does change the energy, and it does put you in your forebrain and out of instinct. And it can be so subtle, like you obviously had a wonderful team. It can be so subtle, but there's so many stories in the room, and if you got it in your head that it needed to come out, which is like ultimately true, but not not right then necessarily, you know, and then the last option is that it was totally perfect and it was what you needed, and it was exactly the balance to, to her birth.
00;37;50;17 - 00;38;39;12
Unknown
And, and it was just right. But you felt fine. And so for, for women listening who are like new to all of this DIY stuff, you know, it is a it is a very subjective and personal line, you know. But what I hear in Rachel's story is she felt totally fine, and it was more the outside idea entering the space that it needed to come out versus what would have happened eventually and maybe even maybe you were right around the corner from this happening, but you would have gotten so annoyed that it was still in, you know, you would have gotten so uncomfortable and crampy and it would have happened.
00;38;39;13 - 00;38;59;11
Unknown
Like, this might be a weird way of saying it, like from the inside out, you know, because at some point it's like, okay, just I'm freaking done with all this anyway. Those are my thoughts. Yeah. And I mean, I feel like it was getting to that point, you know, it was like, yeah, yeah, hi was kind of wearing off.
00;38;59;11 - 00;39;26;29
Unknown
I was like, I'm over this. Like, I want this. Yeah. And so I board that thing out, you know, and looking at it the next day it was complete. Like it's not you know, there was a complete consent to there. It looked lovely. It wasn't anything worse, you know, to be worried about. And yeah, I felt great. It's not like I had some horrible healing.
00;39;27;01 - 00;39;55;09
Unknown
I mean, I gave birth, you know, it's you have to heal. It's. I bled for probably five weeks after, which is still in a, you know, realm of normal. It wasn't nothing I experienced I don't think was out of the box. But, I mean, maybe my mentality of thinking that I'm not going to give birth. But what a crazy story.
00;39;55;12 - 00;40;20;22
Unknown
You know, God. Well, it's nice. It's nice to hear these on the verge of me giving birth because I like I'm hearing you describe it and I'm like, I do not relate. I'm giving birth only two times. Let's let's do the let's do the Rachel way for the third. I want to just, like, casually reach down and feel that.
00;40;20;24 - 00;40;44;15
Unknown
Oh my God. And she freaking serenades you. That's such a great story. Well, it's so idea. If I was going to if I was having twins and my mom was pretty convinced it was twins. And so I like what she well, in her defense, I told her I was a month behind what I actually was so that she didn't push for an induction.
00;40;44;15 - 00;41;05;27
Unknown
So, you know, oh geez, I thought I looked a lot bigger than I was. And she. That's funny. You know, all these things again to your head, they do. So, you know, here we are. And I'm like hearing this baby talking. And I'm like, there's got to be a baby on the floor already. Like what happened?
00;41;06;00 - 00;41;36;26
Unknown
So how would you say free birthing your first baby has shaped you and and evolved you as a woman? Oh, I mean, it totally changed everything for me. It it was literally the most empowering moment of my life. You know, I've have had a lot of struggles in life. I've had a lot of triumphs, but this was literally showed me who I was.
00;41;36;27 - 00;42;05;05
Unknown
And, you know, especially I, I myself was born at 28 weeks in a hospital, you know, in a very medicalized setting. I was in the NICU for a very long time, like I had a very traumatic birth, and it was so healing for me in that moment to give birth to my daughter in the peace of my home, with no bright lights and no gloves and, you know, no monitors and nobody checking me.
00;42;05;05 - 00;42;31;15
Unknown
And to just have it be her and I, and to trust my body and to trust my baby and my husband the whole time was like, we don't need anybody there, you know, we can birth our baby the way we need our baby. And he was very much confident in support of which I am so grateful for, you know, especially with Candace passing away like, so soon before I gave birth.
00;42;31;15 - 00;42;54;15
Unknown
His unwavering confidence for the entire pregnancy really set me up for success. You know? I can't even imagine if he would have been a basket case. I would have I probably would have gone out in the field. But yeah, it just I mean, and seeing my mom, my mom was my my mom, you know, she doesn't understand physiological birth.
00;42;54;15 - 00;43;14;13
Unknown
And it took me being pregnant to like really get that. And, you know, she was so concerned about who was going to deliver the baby and who was going to deliver the placenta. And I said to her, said, the baby is not a pizza. The Domino's delivery boy can't help me. And she just couldn't wrap her brain around it.
00;43;14;13 - 00;43;36;17
Unknown
And I remember when she showed up like a day, two days free days after I gave birth and just seeing her, it just was such a healing moment, you know, you could. Nothing needed to be said, but just her seeing me at home of my baby, it was just like she got what she didn't get to have. Finally, you know, through me, in a way.
00;43;36;19 - 00;43;59;04
Unknown
And I remember my grandma when I was still pregnant, had said to me like, oh, well, you know, so and so gave birth and their barn back in their day, like so she had a memory of somebody in our family having their baby at home. And she goes, yeah. And this her sister was her midwife. And he goes, oh, I didn't know that, you know, so and so was a midwife.
00;43;59;04 - 00;44;25;28
Unknown
She goes, she wasn't. She was just literally there and attended the birth. And it really like made so much sense to me. I was like, well that's what happens. Of course, you know, before all the hospitals and the doctors and the poking and prodding like you just did it, it was a normal thing. And to be able to, like, bring that back into my family lineage was the most wonderfully powering, like, joyful thing I think I could ever do in my life.
00;44;26;01 - 00;44;44;16
Unknown
And it it is, it's life changing. Like I just remember wanting to like shout it from the rooftops afterwards for so long. And I wanted to tell everybody like, hey, you can stay home and have a baby. And it can just be like, no big deal. And you don't even have to know you're giving birth. And it'll just like it'll happen.
00;44;44;17 - 00;45;09;09
Unknown
Like bodies do that, you know, babies will be born when they're ready. And that's the miracle of women. And I went to the moms group a few months after my local town to, like, share my story, and I got ostracized for it. And they did not. Oh, I remember they didn't know it was a moms group. Not like a birth worker group.
00;45;09;11 - 00;45;36;26
Unknown
You know, the woman who runs it is a certified whatever doula. But she she called it a moms grip. Gotcha. So she but it's a hybrid clients really. And you know. Yeah. Really smart affecting her business by coming in there saying like, hey, if you if you don't want this, you don't need her.
00;45;36;28 - 00;46;09;10
Unknown
Okay, so what's up with that? What happened? You went into to speak your truth to power. And it was not welcome. Not welcomed at all. And so all these rules started coming down in guidelines. And how how how they're inclusive. But you know. Well clearly not. And you know she like inclusive to free birthers. Well yeah. Exactly. Come to find out there's a few other women who have had very similar experiences and very similar experiences with her.
00;46;09;10 - 00;46;34;06
Unknown
So, you know, and so much of it like we're all just responding to our from our own wounding. Right. Like I think that truly it triggered her trauma because she had a very medicalized birth and it's not what she wanted. And, you know, here I am like, hey, I just like was tripping and I gave birth and I didn't really feel any pain.
00;46;34;06 - 00;46;56;12
Unknown
And but there was there and here I am with my baby. And, you know, I never had a medical. I had a wild pregnancy. I never had an ultrasound. Like nobody checked me. I trusted my baby was safe. Like, you know, she conjured up this whole story of some blood condition she had, and it created a cascade of ripple effects for her and her birth.
00;46;56;15 - 00;47;16;18
Unknown
I mean, I could have done the same thing. Like, I had a long on my leg the week leading up to birth, and my mom had a blood clot that got loose in her leg and went to her heart and almost killed her. So I conjure. Yeah. This story that that's what was going to happen to me. And I kept trying to, you know, not say that, but it was like where my mind was just going.
00;47;16;18 - 00;47;42;09
Unknown
And I'm like, it was so painful. Like, literally my leg. I couldn't even, like, sit on my knees like it was so painful. I couldn't birth out like the weight. And so what did you do? Nothing. I just did nothing. You had a baby. I had a baby and I went away. You are totally allowed to notice something in your body and let it ride.
00;47;42;12 - 00;48;03;08
Unknown
You're like, allowed to do that, you know? And that doesn't mean someone else should or shouldn't do that. There's lots of ways to skin a cat. Terrible expression. So then what up happening you you get like, clearly not welcomed in this mothering group. And what else is there to say about that? I think we talked about this.
00;48;03;08 - 00;48;26;27
Unknown
I thought about going there and like, blasting one of your reels on the speaker just to, like, be annoying. Like in High Fidelity. Just holding. Don't play holding up the podcast on a boombox. You know, they already seem like that, so why not play the role? But ultimately I was like, boring, boring. These are my people, clearly. Yeah, exactly.
00;48;26;28 - 00;48;51;19
Unknown
And I don't need to waste my time and energy on them, so I didn't. I left the group, she did chase after me, opened my car door and was like frantically like screaming in my face and oh well, it was really weird. She and and I get it. Like, Candace, you know, this this whole thing is like, wrapped up in a trauma of Candace passing away.
00;48;51;19 - 00;49;15;18
Unknown
So, you know, she's like, Candace was my friend. And she was just, like, hysterical, you know? And it was sad. And. But, like, she's coming at me and my brand new baby. Yeah. What does that have to do? Hey, like, you're you're touching my personal property. Back away. Leave me alone. Whoa! Like. And. Yeah, I just never went back to that moms group.
00;49;15;20 - 00;49;24;17
Unknown
Yeah. So I live to tell about it. I survived the lump on my leg, you know, like.
00;49;24;20 - 00;49;55;14
Unknown
I'm still here, like, 13.5 months later. You know, like, our minds are powerful, and. And I have to remember that when, like, interacting with people who, you know, are on the same page is, you know, here I was, like, conjuring up that I can I get a blood clot in my leg and maybe that's what it was, but probably not because I nothing happened, you know, like the lump went down.
00;49;55;14 - 00;50;25;26
Unknown
I'm fine. Like I had already had a really not I don't interact with the medical system for a reason. And two weeks before we conceived, I crushed my foot. I dropped 200 pound marble slabs on my bare foot, and it was not pretty. Oh my God. And my husband was like, we have to get you help. Like, I'm going to take you to the emergency room.
00;50;25;26 - 00;50;38;07
Unknown
I was like, no, you're not. I just, I like I can't stop thinking, like, I can't believe you'd want to have sex two weeks after that happened.
00;50;38;09 - 00;51;00;13
Unknown
It was like the only thing. Are you kidding me? Yeah, right. Let me feel something good. So literally. So, did you not go and. And get what? What do you mean? Wait, what do you mean, crushed? Like broken like. Okay, I have these end tables for my great grandmother, and they're marble slabs. Like, they have to weigh 100 pounds.
00;51;00;13 - 00;51;26;09
Unknown
And they were together. So there are these giant marble slabs, and I was lifting them up, I don't know, trying to move them. And they slipped out of my hands and they just get teamed. Here's my foot. And they just like via tained onto me which and I literally, you know, talk. It's that same moment of like endorphins high.
00;51;26;13 - 00;51;46;07
Unknown
Like I didn't even know what happened. I mean, clearly you could look down the blood gushing like there's a problem, but like, I didn't know it. And I was like, yeah, it's fine, you know, just put a Band-Aid on it. I'm fine. And he's looking at me like, no, you're just like, divorced her. Like, literally. You are not fine.
00;51;46;08 - 00;52;14;12
Unknown
The my big toenail lifted immediately up from the base, you know, like where it's connected. And it was just, like, gushing out the that part of it. So I'm gonna throw up. But. And then is the point of this horrible story that you didn't seek any medical team days. I charmed my way through it. Limping along. And finally my mom was like, you need medical help.
00;52;14;13 - 00;52;41;16
Unknown
Like she kept looking at it 18 days later like there's a problem. So I actually went and got an x ray. After 18 days of just dealing with it myself, they convinced me to go get an x ray. But honestly, I am so grateful because that moment is what solidified and reminded me that, like, I don't participate in this system and it gave me the what was the X-ray going to help you do though?
00;52;41;17 - 00;53;10;19
Unknown
What did they actually help me? Yeah. Mostly nothing. They convince me to rip off. And that was actually worse because just leaving it. So that's when I was like, I'm involved with all being anyone outside of myself with my pregnancy, my baby and my birth, you know, medical team. Like, I'm not doing it because they're so like, I don't know, they was just so, like, sneaky and like pushy about it.
00;53;10;19 - 00;53;34;22
Unknown
Like, oh, we gotta get this off. And it's, you know, you have to do it. And it was just like, I felt so pressured. And yeah, I mean, a lot of people love that. Obviously not you or me. Power to him. Yeah. It's always like those women who are like, yeah, I'm planning a home birth, but here's like my backup hospital plan and I'm like, okay, but you know, that's you.
00;53;34;22 - 00;53;56;28
Unknown
I know for me personally, I that was not how I roll. Like, there was no backup option. There was no out. There was no way other way to do it for me. I had to give birth at home. It's like. It's like, here's here's my husband. I want you to meet my husband, but here's my backup husband. Literally.
00;53;57;01 - 00;54;01;02
Unknown
Case.
00;54;01;04 - 00;54;39;29
Unknown
Yeah, man, I know. Yeah, but I think for women like you, you know, there's just so many different relationships to this stuff. And there's such a such a spectrum and untangling. And everyone is moving their own needle at their own pace, you know, and and like, you can say the same thing and actually mean it in this completely different, you know, from a completely different layered, unconscious way.
00;54;39;29 - 00;55;15;04
Unknown
I don't know how to articulate it because I agree. I mean, I agree, Yolanda and I talk about this all the time. That's just like, man, I just like don't relate to so much of the the common orientation, you know, or the the drama stories about our body and, and the Savior, you know, the seeking the Savior and just all of these really hard core, common, common, common, groomed internal stories that we then or that people who are still into that, you know, play out and use birth to play these things out.
00;55;15;06 - 00;55;39;25
Unknown
It's also dramatic. Oh, I mean, I thought it was going to be one of them. I it was one of my biggest fears in my early pregnancy is I knew the medical system wasn't an option, but I was also really afraid that I was going to create some crazy drama story. In a way I did. It was just like in a whole other realm of like, I don't even know in birth.
00;55;39;25 - 00;56;11;04
Unknown
And, you know, I yeah, and I just need to say on record, I am not pretending. I don't create drama stories in my life like we all do. We all do. But, you know, it's like, yeah, I even went through this process of like, did I create Candace's passing? Did I create this for some drama? Oh, like, I mean, how you know, obviously I'm not that powerful, but.
00;56;11;06 - 00;56;37;02
Unknown
I was in a really tender place. The mind is allowed. Yeah, the mind is allowed to come up with creative nonsense. Oh, and that it does, you know, and especially like, after giving birth, you're just so open and. And then I was like, missing my support, you know, my mom was there, but my mom's experience of birth was in a hospital in a NICU.
00;56;37;03 - 00;57;06;08
Unknown
Like, she saw me through a box, like, stuck her hand through this box like she had no idea. Like I was having a really hard time breastfeeding, and I was. Well, that's when I miss Candace the most. I was like, wow, I'm really missing that support. How long did it take you and your daughter to find your flow with nursing?
00;57;06;10 - 00;57;33;10
Unknown
Oh, I mean, those first three days were so hard I thought I was going to give up. My nipples were cracked and bleeding. It was so painful, I didn't think I could do it. My mom showed up. She brought nipple guards, which I had never even heard of. But she's like, it'll help. And it did. But I didn't know anything about him and I just kept using them because I they were helping and my daughter didn't gain weight for the first month.
00;57;33;12 - 00;57;58;03
Unknown
And I finally was like, I need to find some support. And I found a lactation consultant. And she came over and she was like, whoa, you got to stop using these nipple guards. And as soon as I got weaned myself off those, everything was fine. You know? Again, it was just like, so how long did it take you guys?
00;57;58;03 - 00;58;03;02
Unknown
4 or 5 weeks. Yeah, yeah.
00;58;03;05 - 00;58;16;15
Unknown
And had I had just. Yeah. Pushed through and gotten off the nipple guard sooner it would have happened a lot sooner. But you know, I was. Yeah. But you didn't know. No.
00;58;16;18 - 00;58;44;09
Unknown
But you also didn't do anything wrong. I mean, your baby's fine. And you did find your flow, you know, like, that's important. And I think, you know, for any new moms listening or if your brand new to nursing right now listening to this, you know, it is my experience of being in birth work for, you know, 20 plus years that it is often quite challenging and awkward and weird in the beginning for lots and lots of moms and babies.
00;58;44;09 - 00;59;06;07
Unknown
But if you stick with it and keep it simple by six weeks, you're a smooth sailing like for the vast majority. By six weeks you will be the mom that's just like, oh, and just throws her boob in the baby's mouth wherever you are. But most women don't know. It might take 4 to 6 weeks to to find that flow.
00;59;06;07 - 00;59;39;16
Unknown
So I think that's important to hear. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I had no idea, you know, and I was so quick to give up because I, you know, my grandmother was told her milk never came in and just to not even try. So she didn't nurse. My mom's milk dried up pretty quickly. So she. Right, you know, so it's just like we have these, you know, whether they're stemming from formula companies or the medical industrial complex or all of the above, you know, these this perception of how it is and how it's supposed to be.
00;59;39;16 - 01;00;13;03
Unknown
And then, you know, a few days in and you're like, this isn't working. And all this pressure, your baby is hungry. And it's just like, just keep, keep going, you know? And like, I literally had a friend I hadn't seen in seven, eight, ten years maybe fly in and help me. She was massaging my breast. She was helping, you know, like she laid in bed at night, like she was like an angel, like literally, you know, like, how is it they don't see you in a decade?
01;00;13;03 - 01;00;36;05
Unknown
And here you are. So I love friends like that. All right, women, I hope you enjoyed the show today. You can support this podcast by donating to it through the link in the show notes below. And of course, leaving an awesome review on whatever platform you listen on. The more reviews, the more visibility the show gets. So let's spread the good word of free birth.
01;00;36;08 - 01;00;57;22
Unknown
Don't forget, you can watch all of my podcast interviews on YouTube and see the women as they tell their birth and power stories. And you will also find our viral, free worth collection of epic Raw Birth videos on our YouTube channel. So make sure you're subscribed. We always have a lot going on at Free Birth Society, and you can find out about all of it at Free Birth Society.
01;00;57;24 - 01;01;22;24
Unknown
And I am at Free Birth Society on Instagram. Please opt in to my newsletter below so that you don't miss a thing. We offer courses on free birth, sovereign birth work as well as one on one coaching, women's retreats so much. Our exclusive private vetted membership. The Lighthouse is definitely something to check out. If you are looking for a community of wise sisters to get guidance from and to meet in real life.
01;01;22;26 - 01;01;36;14
Unknown
Together we rise. Sisters. We must speak our stories, fully, claim our lives, and support one another. This is the living revolution and I am so grateful to be in it with all of you. Till next time.
