00;00;01;08 - 00;00;33;03
Unknown
Beloved listeners with this episode, we are officially closing out the year here at the Free Birth Society podcast. Don't worry, the podcast isn't going anywhere. She will stay warm and alive while I take the time that I need. I guess I'll I'll share that I've made the the hard and yeah, just like radically honest decision to continue honoring my my morning stay in my containment for a while longer.
00;00;33;06 - 00;01;05;00
Unknown
I'm completing this season not just of the podcast, but of my own rebirthing and allowing myself to just learn everything that is here for me in this grief, in this new, new way of living. So thank you truly, for the outpouring of love and tenderness and support that so many of you have shown my family. We've all been so moved and yeah, I feel very held.
00;01;05;02 - 00;01;33;19
Unknown
I carry you all in my heart and learning how to grieve tend has been a pretty all consuming job for me, learning a lot. It's really softening me and rearranging me, opening places in me I didn't totally know existed. And I'm just really choosing to listen. I'm choosing to be shaped by all of this rather than rush it, you know?
00;01;33;21 - 00;02;11;25
Unknown
So I look forward to continuing to integrate and to seeing what life and this loss of my son are asking of me next. So I'm going to take my time. I am so honored and sometimes overwhelmed to be such a big part of this great remembering. I pray for your healing as I know you pray for mine. I pray for your soul's growth as I know you pray for mine and I just thank you.
00;02;11;27 - 00;02;39;01
Unknown
I thank you for meeting me here in this way, where my offerings to you live, where they speak and continue to ripple out far beyond what any of us can even really see. So wishing you a beautiful holiday season and we will be back in the new year. Thank you. Welcome to Free Birth Society. I'm Emilee Saldaya, and this is where we break the spell of medicalized birth.
00;02;39;01 - 00;03;17;22
Unknown
Remember what's been forgotten and rise together into our birthright to live, birth and mother as sovereign women. All right. Welcome, women. So happy to have you here. Really good to be here. Thank you. Yeah. This is. I feel like a long time in the making. You know, Audrey, you and I have been talking about this for a little while now, so we're going to do something special today that we've never done on eight plus years of this show, where we have the privilege and joy of having a mother daughter free birthing duo, both with clearly very, very different stories.
00;03;17;22 - 00;03;39;22
Unknown
And yet, Audrey, I know through our beak and through now the free birth community at large and and yeah, you just told me one day like, oh, by the way, my mom also had a free birth. And so yeah, I knew I had to to get you both on to hear what that means. And I'm also just Audrey to you specifically.
00;03;39;22 - 00;04;02;15
Unknown
Just so excited to drop in more with your stories because you have free birth in the time that I've known you, and you've also grown a sovereign birth company in the time that I've known you. So just so fun that also your reference point, as I understand it, of your mom, is that she attended births while you were growing up.
00;04;02;15 - 00;04;30;27
Unknown
So there's just a lot of cool, good stuff here to talk about today. Yes, it's going to be good. Yeah. Okay. So Jenny, I want to start with you. You have seven children and you were, you were or are a birth doula. Do you still attend? I haven't for maybe a year and I probably I don't invite. But if I had someone that I knew, you know, I don't think I could turn down.
00;04;30;28 - 00;04;54;03
Unknown
You'll come, right? It's in your blood. Yeah, but you don't let me be the doula. No, I don't let you be the dealer. I watch the grandchildren at her births. Perfect. I mean, that's probably perfect. Yeah. Okay, so take us to however long ago and give us. I know that your third birth is your free birth. But. But who are you before that?
00;04;54;05 - 00;05;29;08
Unknown
What are your first two births like? You know, I'm really excited to hear about the context of your free birth because it sounds super interesting. Sure. Well, there's a backstory, of course. I had my first baby, 1970, so that kind of gives you a timeline. Really came in on just, I would say the crest of the wave of the whole natural birth thing that came into our culture, I would say at that point.
00;05;29;08 - 00;05;39;09
Unknown
So I went to childbirth classes. Lamaze got prepared for my natural birth with my first baby.
00;05;39;11 - 00;06;14;22
Unknown
Discovered that she was breech in that day. It didn't concern the doctor at all. Only guess what he did? He X-rayed my pelvis to be sure. Yeah, well, this is the way it went. Just to be sure my pelvis was the right size for breech baby. So that labor being a first, first labor and breech birth was intense, very intense.
00;06;14;24 - 00;06;35;28
Unknown
And they didn't look at it. No. Okay. Yeah. No, no. In that day you labored in the labor room, and then they wheeled you into the delivery room. And. No, no men in the living room because, you know, fathers pass out in delivery rooms all the time. So anyway, that and that was my biggest.
00;06;36;01 - 00;07;04;10
Unknown
Regret was here, here, here's my baby. And where's my husband? You know, to share it with me. That moment when I had her. So for my second birth, I was going to the same doctor and I said, I just want my husband with me when I when I give birth. He said, well, if everything's going good, what he's he was past retirement age, but he was still going, which I'm glad because he was workable.
00;07;04;12 - 00;07;30;24
Unknown
He said, if if everything's going good, we'll just stay in the labor room, do it that way. That's better. So my second baby, I went in, you know, when I felt like I needed to go to a hospital, went in. And fortunately, it's just amazing how things work out. My doctor, it was Friday. He was heading out for the weekend to be gone, but I just caught him.
00;07;30;24 - 00;07;55;06
Unknown
So he was there and I was laboring it. It was much less intense than my first baby. Of course. And in fact, when he checked me, he said, I think you can start pushing. And I said, I haven't even been through transition. I thought I had a lot more to go through, but he just let me stay in the labor room.
00;07;55;06 - 00;08;35;00
Unknown
So my husband was with me. The nurses said, you know. Should we be doing this? But he was comfortable with it. So that was a glorious birth compared to my first birth. Then what, six years later? There was little time span between those babies. My third birth, I felt like for some reason I had this little book, little paperback on home birth that I was reading, and it told you how to get prepared for home birth.
00;08;35;02 - 00;09;05;07
Unknown
At that time, everything was supposed to be sterile, and so you put all your towels or sheets or anything in a brown paper bag and heated them in the oven at 200 degrees for like an hour or something. But for some reason, I did all that. I was overdue. Okay. I had we had moved and so I had another doctor and I had gone through what I wanted with my birth, and he had agreed to it all.
00;09;05;10 - 00;09;29;09
Unknown
It was not in accordance with what that hospital was practicing at that time. But he had said, yes, we can do this, we can do this. Well, then I got a call from his receptionist that he's going to be out of town for that whole month. It was a month of July, right. And so he had told me, another doctor, and that he'd referred his patients to that I could go to let us over do.
00;09;29;09 - 00;09;53;01
Unknown
And so I finally decided, okay, I'll go ahead and go to this doctor for an appointment the morning before the evening before that appointment. The appointment was on a Monday morning, but the evening before Sunday evening, I remember we went to the store and we bought whatever supplies we would. The little book said we would need for a home birth.
00;09;53;08 - 00;10;16;12
Unknown
Not really thinking I was going to have a home birth at all. I don't live is doing this. I think someone else was controlling this. Next morning I wake up and I'm in labor, so I think this is great. I'll go with doctor's office and kind of find where I'm at. So I went. We were treated rudely in the doctor's office.
00;10;16;16 - 00;10;44;21
Unknown
My husband was sent out of the room, the exam room. They couldn't understand that. When I said I was already in labor, they kept wanting my due date, which was, I thought, maybe ten days overdue, I don't know. And he examined me. I was four centimeters. He said, well, we'll see this afternoon. I thought, I'm not so sure.
00;10;44;23 - 00;11;05;24
Unknown
Because I asked him about a few things. I asked him, I want my baby with me. He said, oh no, we have to. We want to give the baby. I used to give him sugar water. He said, we don't we don't want the baby to have like aspirate milk. And I thought, I don't need to tell a doctor.
00;11;05;26 - 00;11;36;06
Unknown
So we walked out of there. We drove around a little bit. We talked a little bit. We decided we don't have to go to that hospital. And we went home and my labor continued. I called a friend. I'd been training to be a childbirth educator with this friend, and asked her if she could be with us, but hesitant because she'd been at one birth and apparently it had not gone as well as she thought.
00;11;36;06 - 00;11;44;09
Unknown
I don't know, she didn't tell me. But anyway, she agreed to come on over later on that afternoon, and.
00;11;44;12 - 00;12;15;28
Unknown
I labored and gave birth. I knew very little. I've learned so much more since then. But we had the baby. It was it was a really the whole the whole difference I noticed in that kind of birth was I felt so comfortable with it, with my other births. I was just excited to tell my friends, to call them, to let them know we had the baby.
00;12;15;28 - 00;12;38;29
Unknown
And I was so comfortable with having my baby at home that I didn't have that urgency to share it with everyone. I don't know why, just there were it went. I went for days before I called people that I would consider my best friends to tell them about. I just it was a normal event, more than a big, exciting event.
00;12;38;29 - 00;13;05;10
Unknown
I guess in my mind when I thought about it, we went the next morning into the hospital to be checked because I thought I should. I mean, I really didn't know a lot about birth, and I was fine. They were kind of they were interested that this was a home birth that they got to check out, and everything was good.
00;13;05;12 - 00;13;36;13
Unknown
In fact, I was kind of afraid to go into the hospital. I was afraid I'd get chewed out. Yeah, because of mindset at that time. But no, the doctors I had or just kind of intrigued, you know? And baby was good, I was good. That was it. My next there were, what, six, six years between. Whoa. And which which child is Audrey?
00;13;36;15 - 00;14;02;16
Unknown
So I'm the next president. She's the next one. She's number five. Okay. And so, yeah, I'd love to hear what was my home birth. My free birth. Yeah. Right. Exactly. That was your free birth. That went so easy and you felt so comfortable. And so why the heck do you return to the hospital? I just didn't feel peace about it.
00;14;02;16 - 00;14;30;16
Unknown
I didn't feel the brightness. And I really trust those feelings in myself. I didn't feel the rightness. Did you consider it? What did you consider it like? What was that process like? For one thing, I went into labor six weeks early. And with Audrey. Yes. And my other, my other births. I'd been overdue on every one. Gotcha. That was a little concern.
00;14;30;17 - 00;14;33;20
Unknown
Like what is.
00;14;33;22 - 00;14;59;09
Unknown
And so I yeah, I just never felt the peace to do that. So actually, because I was six weeks early, I went to the hospital not to have the baby. You know, they were going to try to stop the labor, but that didn't work. So in that labor, I got a surprise. Wait, what is six weeks? Is that 34?
00;14;59;13 - 00;15;30;06
Unknown
Yes. Yeah, 34 weeks. Oh yeah. That's little. Yeah, yeah, she was little. I was really little. But I had a surprise because well she was breech as well. I've had four vaginal breech babies. You can do it. Yeah. And she was breech. And then after she was born I had this little lump, this little ball on the on one side of me.
00;15;30;06 - 00;15;59;14
Unknown
And I said, what is this? And the nurse put the stethoscope on it. It had a heartbeat. So that had little boy had twins. Whoa. Yeah. He was stubble foot long, breech. Okay, so that was my fourth pregnancy. But wait, you went. You had no idea there was a second baby in there? No, because I never had an ultrasound.
00;15;59;17 - 00;16;27;08
Unknown
Gotcha. And and I was friends with we had a whole bunch of us were pregnant that summer, and I was I never got great big. So it wasn't like I was the biggest. Yeah. Be concerned, you know, but you remember having a night where you thought to yourself, there's a lot of movement. Movement? It was more like little knobby, like elbows or knees, right.
00;16;27;10 - 00;16;48;22
Unknown
Like a little octopus. It gets real relaxed at night. And I just felt like, wow, there's a lot of little bumps in there. And oh my God, not in my mind. I just, you know, didn't even enter. It didn't stay with me. So I was totally surprised when I had. That's awesome. Okay, so a second freaking baby comes out.
00;16;48;23 - 00;17;09;20
Unknown
Yeah. And they're both healthy and. Okay. Yeah. Audrey was pounds six ounces. My little boy was 3 pounds and a half. And I kept saying we lived in a small town in Salt Lake City was the closest. And I kept saying, are they going to have to be transported to someone? Like, are they going to? And is it.
00;17;09;20 - 00;17;40;14
Unknown
No, they're fine. They were in the hospital a week and I was able to be with them, but not the NICU week. Not know? No, you, my little Audrey, had no issues. The little boy, three and a half pounder, had a little bit of flaring of the nostrils right at first, and we live at 6200ft. So for a premature infant, it's a little more of a challenge because of the altitude, you know.
00;17;40;15 - 00;17;49;29
Unknown
But they were both fine. They stayed. We stayed in the hospital week. I was in the room with them all the time.
00;17;50;02 - 00;18;19;01
Unknown
He was in. You both were probably in the incubator some at that time. He had he had trouble holding his body temperature because he was so small. But yeah, no, no big problems. I was so thankful because when I began reading about premature babies and finding out that so often there are brain bleeds and this and that, and God was good.
00;18;19;02 - 00;18;42;17
Unknown
They were healthy and they grew. Yeah. So that was my fourth pregnancy. Wow. Okay. So that's four and 5445 baby. Yeah yeah yeah okay. And then what do you do with your last two? I just went to the hospital and I tell you, I just walk in and have my babies and walk out. Yeah, it's kind of how I do it.
00;18;42;19 - 00;19;04;23
Unknown
Yeah. In fact, with with my next pregnancy, as we're leaving the hospital, we saw some friends driving up to visit me. We said, bye bye. We're done. I, I've always been able to walk in and do what I wanted. Good. My my business is having the baby and you going home. You do what you want though. She does.
00;19;04;24 - 00;19;32;00
Unknown
She just kind of says what she wants and does what she wants. And not everybody carries that presence. But you do more than other people. Maybe so. No, but it is. It is also a mixture of just total luck and willingness of the staff, because I've been to plenty of births with powerful do what they want women who get absolutely sideswiped, railroaded, in trouble, labeled non-compliant babies taken away, drugged against their will.
00;19;32;03 - 00;20;02;17
Unknown
So it's it's a combination, right? Yes, yes. Yeah, yeah. And you're right, I because I've been at many as a birth doula. Then later on as my kids grew up, as I birth doula, not very often, but once in a while met with some hospital personnel that thought they were running the show. But most often, if you go about it the right way, I always say if I walk into and I've done lots of home births as well as hospital births.
00;20;02;19 - 00;20;26;14
Unknown
As a birth doula. But when I walk in the hospital, I always say I keep the smile on because we're going to win and advocate and support that couple to have the kind of birth that they want to have in that setting. But yeah, it can it can be a challenge and it hasn't always gone. Just the way they wanted.
00;20;26;17 - 00;20;55;22
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. So anything else you want to say about your last two. Okay. Well pretty much walk in the hospital when I'm in labor and you're like, okay, I think I need to go somewhere where I can settle in now. And had, well, my next one. I mean, I have the baby in less than two hours after I met the hospital, and he was again.
00;20;55;22 - 00;21;18;09
Unknown
He was the early birth, two weeks early, but he was fine. And then I was out of the hospital, I think in less than 24 hours and back home, my last one, we discovered she was breech. And at that time.
00;21;18;11 - 00;21;41;20
Unknown
Thought doctor said then that the hospital and doctors had taken the position that a breach baby is a C-section. So my doctor said when we discovered she was breech. Well, we'll have to do a C-section. I said, oh, no, I said, I've already delivered three bedroom overreaches. So that was the end of conversation. Good.
00;21;41;22 - 00;22;11;22
Unknown
That labor was a little bit longer in the hospital than two hours, maybe six hours, something like that. But delivered her and all was well. And when do you start attending births? What does that go on to look like as you're raising all your babies? Well, I didn't start until I had my first grandchild. Okay. And that's what interested me.
00;22;11;25 - 00;22;32;13
Unknown
She wanted me to be with her because she was having a home birth. And actually, she had a home first. Breech birth breaches family. I don't know why, apparently. So we. I even have a little adopted grandson that was born breech. I mean, he belongs to us.
00;22;32;16 - 00;23;00;06
Unknown
So it was so it was then that I. Yes, I was with her and I had never been on the other side of birth, and I didn't know there was a name for what I was doing until my third daughter that I had the home that was my home. Birther was training to be a midwife herself, and she told me, she said, mom, there's a name for what you're doing and there's training that we can get.
00;23;00;06 - 00;23;26;05
Unknown
So we both went and got trained. You got certified with Donna and started, but you were all close to grown. I mean, when you started, I was like 12 when you started preparing for Amy's birth and then probably like 13, 14. I feel like when you were really going through, like, starting to go through your donor training. Yeah.
00;23;26;07 - 00;23;50;05
Unknown
I mean, I very much remember that. And remember looking at your books and everything. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. As a, as a young teenager. Yeah. So, Audrey, did you feel interested as a young girl with all of this flying around in your household? To me, birth was just so normal. My mom always talked about it like it was normal.
00;23;50;05 - 00;24;09;23
Unknown
And my dad would even introduce our family as, like, I have, like, these are my seven kids. Four of them were born breech, three of them weren't. And all the breech babies, we all have a names and the others have other letters. And so it was just like birth was just a normal funny. I don't really ironic because it wasn't planned that way.
00;24;09;23 - 00;24;29;10
Unknown
We didn't even I didn't realize to my last birth all the ones that had their first name started with they were the breech babies. That's funny. So for my last one, I had to give her an A name. Her name is something. Yeah, you kind of do. The other little name all started with a. And I didn't even know what we were doing.
00;24;29;10 - 00;24;50;29
Unknown
It wasn't planned, but turned out to be. Yeah, yeah. So that was a normal conversation. And then because my oldest sister, she's 12 years older than me, and they were having babies when I was in those forwarding years. And so my mom was doing that work. But even before then, because you'd been interested in world, you had the shelf of books that was still about birth.
00;24;50;29 - 00;25;11;09
Unknown
And I remember as a little girl opening up those books and seeing these women, you know, legs spread open, black and white pictures, babies emerging. I was really intrigued by that. But there was just like birth was just so normal. And I think that was the biggest thing. And then as you started to attend birth, you would go to births and then you would come home and talk about it.
00;25;11;09 - 00;25;31;06
Unknown
And I had my sister, who was six years older, who was going to midwifery school, and so she's coming home and talking about it. And so it just was such a normal conversation. And so I was I don't know that I was interested like, this is the work I'm going to do, but it was like such a normal, common thing that just felt so comfortable to talk about.
00;25;31;06 - 00;25;53;22
Unknown
And the terminology was all something that I was just really familiar with because our it was just common conversation in our household. And my dad, even for all the birds, my dad took like detailed notes for the birth of my contractions. And then you know how far along I was. And then his comments. Yeah, those are keepsakes. They are cute forever.
00;25;53;23 - 00;26;21;15
Unknown
So he was always interested as well. So it really was like dinner time conversation. Let's talk about birth, which now I'm realizing is not normal. But it was my normal. And so yeah, so I would say didn't know was going to be my work but was very comfortable with it. So tell tell me about I'm assuming that you become a mother prior to birth work.
00;26;21;16 - 00;26;39;28
Unknown
Is that true? Yes. For me? Yes, yes. So tell me about that arc, because you have for you have four children. I for children. And I'm pregnant again. Well, I actually have six children because I have two that are not good. Okay. So. And I didn't know you were pregnant. Congrats. I'm just coming off the edge of my first trimester.
00;26;39;28 - 00;27;02;04
Unknown
I'm glad we scheduled this far out, because I would have been. Yeah, right. So you. But you have a baby. Those are pretty close together, He's here. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Cool. Yeah. So he'll be. He'll still be not quite two years apart. A couple months off. So my husband, I got married and we were around 22, and we never prevented.
00;27;02;04 - 00;27;28;29
Unknown
But we never had children until I was 31. And I really thought we, I just we just couldn't have children. And we were medically minded at all. We never got anything checked it out. We just I was we just thought we probably won't have kids. And so wait, wait, that's a really big deal. Yeah. It really so did did you think you or he were infertile?
00;27;29;01 - 00;27;52;13
Unknown
I don't know, it's like I hadn't quantum. I would never have been like, I'm infertile. We. It was just like. Because I don't know, I never labeled myself as that. I just thought, we probably can't have kids. And I remember us having conversations and almost normalizing it. We knew a couple other couples who were older who didn't have kids, and we kind of tried to, like, acclimate ourselves for that world and be like, okay, like, look at what they're doing.
00;27;52;14 - 00;28;10;07
Unknown
Like they're traveling. They're doing these things like, okay, we could be okay with that. And I was growing a lot in my career. I was managing a running store. I was running a ton. I had done some elite running. And so, like, I felt like I had this trajectory of like, I'm just going to keep going this direction.
00;28;10;08 - 00;28;26;05
Unknown
My husband was pastoring, and so he felt like he was already taking care of a bunch of kids, basically. Right. And so we kind of but I will say there was a season in the middle there where every cycle, you know, I was testing because I was hoping that I would have a child that was going to be pregnant.
00;28;26;05 - 00;28;45;19
Unknown
And then that kind of as I moved into that career kind of stage, I kind of put that out of my mind. And so we were never preventing, but we weren't trying. I mean, for a season, we weren't really trying. We just if it happened to happen, you know, but actually God won't visit. What God does God like wakes me up in dreams.
00;28;45;19 - 00;28;59;01
Unknown
And he said, you're supposed to have a baby. Like it's time to have a baby. And I was like, I'm not. I don't want to do anything with this. I got a career. I got plans like, I'm not doing anything with this. And it kept us going through my mind, and I knew I had to mention it to my husband.
00;28;59;01 - 00;29;18;01
Unknown
And so I did. And he was like, yeah, this is the time. And so we were very we were very purposeful that cycle. And I got pregnant. Okay. And that. But it's not like I wasn't we weren't having sex when we were the other ones. Right. Like that's it just took some, some intention. Yeah. So that was the time that we were.
00;29;18;02 - 00;29;40;25
Unknown
Yeah. So we were pregnant that next cycle. And so we, we both knew we never had been a part of the medical system a whole lot. I'd had some really I was, had an eating disorder when we first got married, and I'd been a part of the medical system in my recovery, and it had been awful. And they had like at one point they put me on 11 medications.
00;29;40;25 - 00;30;00;18
Unknown
I had gotten off of all of those things by myself, and at that point, like exited the medical system because what there was a lot of there's a lot of things they should have never done, never put me on. And so that was a huge and we didn't grow up medical at all. So that was like my only foray into the medical system point.
00;30;00;19 - 00;30;25;00
Unknown
Like, yeah, what would you imagine? I mean, I would imagine the eating disorder may have had something to do with off the pregnancies. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And I think in many ways my body wasn't ready. And even consciously, I knew that, like, there was a lot of rebuilding that had to be done. But because of that journey, we automatically were like, we're not interested in the medical system.
00;30;25;00 - 00;30;45;10
Unknown
But then I have my mom's stories. And so we initially said, you know what, let's go to the hospital for our first prenatal. Our insurance will cover it. Let's see what it feels like. And we walk into this room. There was literally like like the size of a closet. And this remember this girl, I'm like 31. She probably was in her 20s, but I felt like she was a teenager and she had long nails and she could get clacking all of her keyboard.
00;30;45;10 - 00;31;05;10
Unknown
And I just was like, she's so stupid. I know more about birth than she does. Like, I was so annoyed with her and it felt dirty and like I was just like, why is she asking these stupid questions? Like I already more than her. So we left and were like, never again. Like, we were so excited about this and it was like the biggest damper.
00;31;05;10 - 00;31;25;28
Unknown
And so we left and said, no, we're not doing that. Who cares if insurance covers it? Like we're not going back in that setting. So then we went to a a birth center, and at this point I knew nothing. I didn't know there was a difference between medical midwives and unlicensed. I didn't know any of that. So we go to the sports center and we at least are treated well.
00;31;25;29 - 00;31;44;28
Unknown
We're like, okay, this is the route we go. And so that pregnancy was pretty simple. I had morning sickness, I had all the normal stuff. But, you know, I was I felt good for the most part. And at 36 weeks, I hadn't done any ultrasounds. I'd opted out of that. But at 36 weeks or like, we really think your baby's breech, let's check.
00;31;44;28 - 00;32;04;17
Unknown
And I let them probably shouldn't have, but I didn't know. And she was preach and I didn't realize it even that they could, you know, opt out of that. I had no idea. And in my mind I'm like this so normal, like my family has reached for babies. And so they dropped me. We'd already paid. I never got a dime back.
00;32;04;19 - 00;32;24;05
Unknown
And so we had no care. And so I spent a couple weeks, well, really only two and a half weeks calling all over to try to find it unlicensed. Midwife in like I was in Idaho in all the surrounding states. I'm calling, calling, calling. And they're all like, yeah, your best case scenario, but we're not going to take you.
00;32;24;08 - 00;32;40;24
Unknown
And so I'm trying to do everything to turn her. I did two huge regrets. I'm so glad she didn't turn. She was already wedged down in my pelvis like she wasn't going to turn. I mean, those are those are some cringey moments for me because I would never my wildest dreams put my baby through that again. Or myself.
00;32;40;26 - 00;32;56;20
Unknown
I don't know, I don't know though I didn't know. Yeah. And that's why midwife said. And so I'm just trying to still work with these ladies. Right. And I didn't know I could just stay home and have a baby. I mean, I knew my mom had, but somehow that really didn't even that never connected at that point. It didn't.
00;32;56;21 - 00;33;20;09
Unknown
And so at 38.5 weeks, well, actually, before that, we got Ahold of the hospital in Portland and they said they were retraining breech and we could come there. And so that was the plan. Well, we didn't make it there. And I went into labor. Yeah, yeah. My water broke at 38.5 weeks. And so our midwives at least said you can come in and we'll check you, you know, because I thought we had to do all that.
00;33;20;09 - 00;33;41;24
Unknown
So I went in and they said, you're almost six centimeters, you're not going to Portland. And the one thing is that my midwife did say is she said, you don't have to do anything you don't want to do. And so I'm a very defiant person, kind of do my own thing. Anyways, I didn't need any extra prodding, but like, like, yeah, I'm not going to.
00;33;41;25 - 00;33;55;16
Unknown
So we spent a lot of time, we drove around to like our favorite bakery and the and Whole Foods and like all the food we wanted. I went home and like, showered. We took all of our time. But what was the plan at that? We were going to go to the hospital. Yeah, we're going to go to the hospital.
00;33;55;18 - 00;34;15;27
Unknown
Not. But not the one in Portland, not the one in Portland. So we took like two hours, like driving around, getting our stuff. Finally decided, okay, you did you think you were heading in for surgery? Oh, no, I knew, I knew I was going into decline everything. So we were trying to bide our time to go in and decline, I see.
00;34;15;29 - 00;34;42;15
Unknown
Yeah. To try to show up and, like, without it, to have the baby. Yeah, yeah. So our midwife, what's your level? What's your level of stress at this point in your story? I wasn't stressed at all. Okay. I wasn't I'm and I actually, I feel like this was a god piece of the story that I actually do better under pressure and competition.
00;34;42;16 - 00;35;00;21
Unknown
Like, I rise to the top, like I would never rise to the top. And I actually think I was so much more of a warrior in my first birth because of that, that I would I would have crumbled more, possibly in a home birth. I just it's always what I've been like, present me with a challenge and I will overcome.
00;35;00;23 - 00;35;19;24
Unknown
And so I almost felt like it was meant to be that way. And I learned so much. And it really, I stepped into motherhood in a different way because for me, it feels really good to, like, show up and do something that nobody else thought I could do. And so that's what I did. So we arrived at the hospital.
00;35;19;25 - 00;35;44;15
Unknown
And so this was 12 hours from my water breaking to baby being born. So it was probably about, I don't know, not quite halfway through, but almost, it felt like, okay, it's time to be there. And we show up, they find out babies breech. I think they maybe already knew that because they had my paperwork, because the midwives sent it all over and they and we declined.
00;35;44;15 - 00;36;04;25
Unknown
So we said, no, we're not doing a C-section. They sent multiple doctors into our room to convince us. I already said no. This is what my family does. I'm not swayed. I already know it's safe. And so we finally said, we'll sign an AMA and please bring that to us. So they brought us to AMA, we signed the AMA and then the doctor on call.
00;36;04;25 - 00;36;23;28
Unknown
After I signed that, she came in and she totally changed her whole tune, right? She's been spending time like tons of time in her room trying to convince me otherwise. And so then she comes in and she says, so I just want you to know, she's older lady. Back in my early training, I was trained in breech birth and so I'm going to be had done breech person in the state but in her early training.
00;36;23;29 - 00;36;41;08
Unknown
Yes. And so she said this is what we're going to do. This is going to be hands off birth. And so I she would have never said that had I not signed the AMA. You know, she's not going to say she knows what she's doing, but she does. And so her only thing that she said is she said, I want you to push your baby out in the O.R..
00;36;41;08 - 00;37;00;19
Unknown
And at that point, I declined everything. I declined their gown, I declined monitors, I declined an IV, I declined everything. I left the premises and walked around the entire hospital grounds outside. They were already not happy with me because I had just been like, peace out. I'm in labor. I'm leaving. I'll come back when I'm ready to have the baby.
00;37;00;19 - 00;37;19;29
Unknown
And so I said, fine, I'll push the baby out in the Or so. That was our only thing that we had agreed to, and my whole goal was to not get in the bed. And so I labored in the floor on the floor for a long time. And then finally, at one point, she came in and said, okay, we're going to see how far you're dilated.
00;37;19;29 - 00;37;40;08
Unknown
And I was in transition at that point. And so once she checked me, I couldn't get out of the bed. You know, I was at the point where I couldn't. And so then I ended up being in the bed throwing up for, I mean, it was a couple hours of, you know, throwing up after every contraction. Oh, on my side, you know, and and I just closed my eyes.
00;37;40;09 - 00;38;03;23
Unknown
I mean, I really was in my own world, doing my own thing. Really didn't pay any attention to anybody else. My mom was there, my husband was there. My midwife who dropped me, she came, she came to to be supportive. And her presence probably was somewhat she was a good link to. Yeah, I think I think us in.
00;38;04;00 - 00;38;26;12
Unknown
But like the combination of all those people made them less likely to maybe do something that they didn't need to do. And so then finally she said the OB came in and said, you're fully dilated. I want you to wait another 45 minutes to push, which again, like, that's probably what every I mean, nobody should be pushing wonderfully.
00;38;26;15 - 00;38;49;22
Unknown
Who cares? Like wait for the baby. But she kept telling me, breathe through these contractions. We want to make sure there's no cervical lip left so the baby can come out easily. And so I did. I worked really hard to not push on those contractions and had everybody saying, don't, don't, don't push, blow. And then finally probably been about about an hour.
00;38;49;24 - 00;39;10;29
Unknown
She had everybody get garbed up in blue. So my husband's all in blue, my mom's all in blue. And I remember looking over at them and being like, later, I'm going to crack up because they look so stupid. Like they've all got their hats on and stuff, and they wheel me into the O.R., and I had to get off the table by myself and climb up onto the operating table, which, as you know, is just like a metal, slack, narrow thing.
00;39;11;00 - 00;39;31;08
Unknown
Yeah. And the room is always cold. Freezing, freezing cold. There's nothing to prop me up. So my husband and my mom are helping me, like, sit halfway up, and then I yell at young male nurse. So this is also a teaching hospital. So there were 18 people in the room. Yes, my mom counted them. This. This is. Hate this for you.
00;39;31;14 - 00;39;51;14
Unknown
It's a circus. They don't have this happiness or a bad reach birth. Yeah. So everyone's got to come in and see how it goes. Yeah. So I yelled at this young male nurse to hold my legs, and he just was like, oh, what am I doing? He was not prepared for for what he was being asked to do.
00;39;51;14 - 00;40;08;23
Unknown
But he did. He held my leg and and then they were telling me like when to push, when not to push. I didn't even care, actually, for her emergence. It felt like I need to continually push. And I just remember I felt like I was pushing out a loaf of bread, like in my mind, visually, I was like, this is a loaf of bread.
00;40;08;25 - 00;40;32;21
Unknown
Like it's the same circumference forever. And so I visualized like, you know, loaf of bread coming out of my body. She looked for bread, you know, she turned on a leg or funny, and she shot meconium everywhere. And even at that moment I was like, I hope it's I hope it's hitting all these people, you know? And she's like spraying meconium out.
00;40;32;24 - 00;40;57;22
Unknown
But the OB did. She did completely hands off until she was out, you know, past her shoulders. And then she supported her body while I pushed her head out. So I'm so grateful for that. I'm grateful that I at least had didn't have an OB who knew nothing about breech and screwed it up royally. And then place baby right up on me.
00;40;57;24 - 00;41;15;24
Unknown
And of course, there's still all the hands, you know, rubbing your baby down. And the one my one piece of regret in that story is that they just jabbed me in the thigh with Petrossian and pulled my placenta out, and I didn't even know that was a I didn't even know that was a thing, you know, then even education and not gone that far.
00;41;15;24 - 00;41;34;20
Unknown
But I, I have no memory really from that until probably four hours later. And I felt like I and like my husband and I've talked through it and he's like, yeah, we weighed baby. We measured baby. Other people in the room. You had your first meal? I went to Whole Foods and bought you these foods and we, you know, we ate and like, I don't that I don't remember that.
00;41;34;20 - 00;41;58;02
Unknown
And so my memory is of being then in the whatever the room is afterwards. And like holding my baby in this bed, it's at night, middle of the night. And like like I felt like then I was meeting her for the first time. And that man. So many women report memory loss with pit and so few people truly connect those dots.
00;41;58;08 - 00;42;28;22
Unknown
It's so scary. Oh yeah. Okay. Wow. That's a very intense first birth. It was. It was wild. I left feeling victorious, though, because I knew I had to. I knew I defied their wishes and done what I wanted. And it really, in some ways, it set me up to be very sovereign in my motherhood choices and realize I will make the choices that I want and nobody will tell me otherwise.
00;42;28;23 - 00;43;02;10
Unknown
And so I'm I'm grateful for that, you know, and and that postpartum was. I, I wish I knew then what I know now as far as being connected to a baby and keeping my baby with me all the time and so many things that I just, I wish I had been more connected. I would say that we are probably more connected than most mothers, but also the connection I have with my other babies was was stronger in that first year of life, and some of it probably was due to the initial bonding that just literally wasn't there because of the Josten.
00;43;02;13 - 00;43;28;20
Unknown
And so that's that's kind of my my regret in that birth is that I lost that that bonding. But breastfeeding went well. Having my mom with breastfeeding, that initial baby was huge because she also went on to be a lactation consultant. And so that was just like getting those basics down made for I've had great breastfeeding experiences with all my children.
00;43;28;22 - 00;43;36;05
Unknown
So yeah. Shall I move into the next one? Do you have any I don't know, yeah. I'm I'm wondering.
00;43;36;07 - 00;44;04;29
Unknown
Obviously what you do next because I don't I don't remember when free birth starts to enter your your storyline. Is it. It's your third. You right with my third. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So so how soon how old is your first when you get free birth. I second was almost. Yeah. Yeah yeah. Really close. Yeah. So how does this first birth, you know, shape you into how you make different decisions?
00;44;05;06 - 00;44;25;12
Unknown
Well, I would say all of a sudden my interest in birth peaked, you know, because I've now done birth. Been there, done that. I start having birth conversations with women around me and saying, and we're telling them, you know, you don't have to do what they say you have to do. And I realize I do have a passion for that now.
00;44;25;13 - 00;44;49;11
Unknown
I didn't fully step into that until my third, but but I would say my interest and I started learning, so I did I started doing way more learning and even than, yeah, learning about tossing and learning about all these things that I was like, okay, it makes sense why I felt the way I felt the whole sense of of the awareness, even with your first birth and which we had birth is our thing.
00;44;49;13 - 00;45;12;22
Unknown
Yeah. We make the calls, we make the decision. Yeah. This is this is my birth, my baby. That whole mindset carried over and lent so that that with your first birth, there is no way you're going to have a C-section. That's ridiculous. Plus, my first birth had been a breach, so. Right. What's my oldest sister first had been a breach.
00;45;12;23 - 00;45;47;20
Unknown
It just felt. Yeah, yeah. So. Yeah. So why would we have a C-section for a breach? Yeah. Don't make sense. So I think just even that taking ownership of birth was present in us initially. Yes. For sure. Initially that lent itself to. Yeah. Yeah. Well it's a really interesting moving of the needle because like there's some ownership. But also I mean, you know, because you've moved the needle a lot, like you're also giving birth in an or getting jabbed up and like you're not in control at all.
00;45;47;21 - 00;46;19;00
Unknown
Like the bar is so low that to just not have a C-section totally feels victorious and is victorious. But you obviously know, like it's very complicated because you're you only you can only push against what you're ready to see and deal with. And we know this story goes like so much bigger, right, of how you how radical or how much ownership you you've grown to take.
00;46;19;00 - 00;46;40;12
Unknown
So it's I think it's a really good like checkpoint for all of us that we're just all moving our needles at the paces that we're like up for. And yeah, it's it's a really complex conversation. Yes. And I wouldn't have been up for what I know now with that first birth, I simply I hadn't lived long enough. I didn't know enough.
00;46;40;12 - 00;47;10;27
Unknown
Even if I, even if I had, you know, come across the fact that there's actually women other than my mother doing this, it would resonated with me in that first birth. It wouldn't have. I wasn't to that point. And my second, I still used medical midwives, but I was going to do it at home this time, and I had a precipitous labor with him, and it was 2.5 hours long, and they didn't get there till the last 15 minutes, and I didn't at the moment they came in, I didn't like it, and that really stands out to me.
00;47;10;27 - 00;47;41;26
Unknown
I hated their presence and their kind of glamorous women. And that part right there, just me. Weird. It really did. It really just it made me mad that they like, showed up with, like, their bangle. Like, you know what I mean? Like, that just kind of bothered me, I think. Okay, wait, I have a question. How how did you rationalize in your mind hiring medical midwives again who won't attend breech?
00;47;41;29 - 00;48;02;29
Unknown
Isn't that stupid? I don't know, but you were going. I mean, I'm sure you thought about it, right? Yeah, I, I think I thought surely I won't have to breach in a row. Oh, okay. Well, it wouldn't have mattered if it was home or not. There still wouldn't have been license to cover it. No, but still that. No, in your mind, as that needle is moving.
00;48;02;29 - 00;48;32;06
Unknown
You're talking about that? Well, yeah, but but I don't. But as far as still hiring them. Yeah. I mean, somehow, I don't know, I don't know. I think I must have thought that that's not going to happen again, you know, two in a row and it didn't. But I, I love that labor. That was actually probably my most challenging labor because it was so fast and it felt like there wasn't a single it felt like just one long, you know, continuous contraction really.
00;48;32;12 - 00;48;52;16
Unknown
And I did a lot of healing after that birth where I would replay my birth playlist and try to slow it down in my mind. And I, I felt like I never had time to integrate because that was my biggest problem is like, I never integrated that birth because it was so fast. But when they came in. Then I had headphones on so I couldn't hear them.
00;48;52;16 - 00;49;22;13
Unknown
But I, you know, I could feel the Doppler on my belly. I didn't like that. And then after a few minutes, I remember my, my midwife saying in my ear, honey, you should probably take your shorts off. And I was like, oh, I'm so mad at her. I don't like somebody should have told me that sooner. So I remember kind of struggling to get my shorts off and and feeling so done and caged and crazy because I thought, this can't keep going.
00;49;22;14 - 00;49;40;06
Unknown
Like, I just had this 12 hour labor. And I just thought to myself, if this is going to stay like this, like, I can't, I can't do this. And how long was this home birth? It was 2.5 hours, two and a half. And they showed up, right? Yeah. And they shoot up at 15 minutes till the before baby emerged.
00;49;40;09 - 00;50;07;28
Unknown
And so and so the other RFU were like things that I hate in this. My husband was right behind me. I was on hands and knees and they still came in and caught baby. That's that's angering to me. Yeah very angry to me. And still, you know, baby came right out to my chest, but because they came up 15 minutes, they that third stage of labor, they everything felt so rushed because I truly believe in their perspective.
00;50;07;29 - 00;50;35;08
Unknown
They're like, hey, we barely got here. Let's get this done. Let's get cleaned up, let's get out. And so it was a really pretty snappy like, okay, are you ready for the placenta? Let's see if you can get a little push, which really, really sucks in a precipitous birth because that could have been if they were good birth attendants, they should have understood that was the integration time that you didn't get in your labor.
00;50;35;08 - 00;51;01;29
Unknown
And to if they had backed off and slowed the whole pace way down for you with placenta in assuming that it needed a minute to like speak your story and go what the fuck in like real for a while while you were still in the birth process that is integration in real time after a precipitous birth. That's so important.
00;51;02;01 - 00;51;24;27
Unknown
I would I would agree that those hours after he was born again, I had that feeling that was taken from me with my first birth, that was taken from me with my second birth, different ways. But I had that same feeling that kept coming up for me as my husband. I would talk about birth that I just was like, I felt like both of those were were taken from me.
00;51;24;29 - 00;51;42;00
Unknown
Yeah. And I, I mean, I really was just kind of spinning and I couldn't stop shaking like the journalist kept on coming, you know, pulsing through me. And I was already, like, set up in bed eating while I was still shaking. I think I would have rather have been still just sitting on the floor holding my baby, you know, like that.
00;51;42;00 - 00;52;10;08
Unknown
That was probably it, you know, 45 minutes out and and I wasn't I wasn't ready for any of that. And so that was that was my worst postpartum. I had tons of anxiety really, really. And had the most grief after his birth. Like, I really every single day I plan time to go in my room, hold my baby in the dark while I was nursing him, listen to my music, and just cry like every day.
00;52;10;08 - 00;52;35;21
Unknown
It was like planned. Planned cry. Well, I tried to integrate. It's going to make me cry out what had happened because it was such a whirlwind. It really pisses me off because you think that's why you're hiring midwives, you know, like that's that's the idea is like, however it goes there, the containment. And that should be the truth.
00;52;35;21 - 00;53;08;01
Unknown
That should be the containment. Like very often when I attend precipitous birth, I spend the night that night. Yeah. Because they're going to need that level of ongoing integration, witnessing and support, you know, because of course, I mean, some women integrate it as it's happening, but it is extremely common for you to feel earth shattering whiplash that is not that is not supportive and helpful to your next phase.
00;53;08;02 - 00;53;24;14
Unknown
Yeah. It's really intense. Yeah. And that's exactly what it felt like. Like I would say by far, that felt like we most challenging birth for all the people out there who are like, I'd love to have a short birth. I, I don't, I know, I mean, it's not it's not exactly what you think it's going to be.
00;53;24;16 - 00;53;52;20
Unknown
And maybe some people have that ability to just integrate it, but, well, they are saying that because they're afraid of pain. Yes. Right. That's the only reason anyone wishes for a quick birth is what the implication of that is. I don't want to birth. And so give it to me as quick as possible so that it can just be done with, which is, you know, some serious cognitive dissonance you got to look at because you're you're interested in escaping, it is going to get you.
00;53;52;21 - 00;54;15;17
Unknown
Yes, totally. And my next birth was probably my easiest, which ends up being my free birth because I. Oh yeah, give me all the third birth. Good story after that. That really is. That's when I really started. I mean, we had we had a period then of not having children again still not preventing actually trying. How long did how far apart are they.
00;54;15;18 - 00;54;44;06
Unknown
Three to their five years there and started doing foster care in that time. Have two children through foster care. They're adopted into our family in that period of time. Lots of others who came through. So I still had babies in my home constantly during that time. But that during that time also, I was started doing tons of learning actually, like I actually need to fully understand physiological birth, what's happening, doing my own learning, research, talking with my husband and we both were like there was.
00;54;44;07 - 00;55;10;24
Unknown
They had nothing to offer us. Neither situation had anything to offer us. Why would we ever go that route again? And and actually, what they did offer you was counterproductive. Yes, yes, very much so. Very much so. And so we we had talked about that then at this point now for years before I get pregnant, I'd been learning for years.
00;55;10;27 - 00;55;33;14
Unknown
I had friends that I had not not been there, not been their midwife, traditional midwives, birth work, but had played roles in their birth, in their postpartum. As I'm learning and starting to like, integrate when I'm learning and and then women just come into your life, you know, this comes up and and so I'm helping them with different things both in pregnancy, birth and postpartum, you know, and all those.
00;55;33;15 - 00;55;54;17
Unknown
And so then when I got pregnant with my third, we I automatically both automatically knew that would be a free birth. And at this point, prior to getting pregnant with him, he had come into my radar and I was kind of like, oh, okay. Also, people are doing this like there's a name for the thing that my mom did and for the feeling that I'm having about my next birth.
00;55;54;17 - 00;56;24;20
Unknown
And so that I soaked up all of that information. I soaked up the podcast. I, I felt like this camaraderie between these women who finally I was hearing that they were having the same stories and feelings that I was. And that felt very that felt good to me. That felt like very, very like solidarity to me. And so from the very beginning, I remember, like, you know, googling midwives in my area, which I already know them all.
00;56;24;22 - 00;56;41;18
Unknown
So it's stupid that I've been to that and being like, oh, like I can't even click on their website like, oh, I literally could not bring myself to even like look it up. And so people would ask us, you know, what are your birth fans? And we just jokingly be like, well, probably just, you know, my my last birth was 2.5 hours.
00;56;41;18 - 00;57;06;02
Unknown
We'll probably just have this one at home by ourselves. And we would say it jokingly, but it finally probably not until like after 20 weeks, we finally, finally were like, yeah, we're actually doing this. And so I remember calling my mom and telling her, hey, I don't know if you're up for coming to a birth without somebody else there, but if you want to, you're invited to come watch my kids.
00;57;06;02 - 00;57;28;25
Unknown
I don't want you there to be my doula. But you can come and watch my children. I would love for you to still be present. And. And how was that for you, Jenny? To hear that? Was that like, oh my God, or was that an easy yes? No. That was I had a little concern because I've been at some bursts where there have been emergencies, you know, no matter if that birth had been at home, it still would have been the emergency situation.
00;57;28;27 - 00;57;58;05
Unknown
I've been at a few of those, so I know there can be the unexpected. Hardly ever is there, the unexpected. So I, I had a little concern about about that. But also you were training I think. I think you were training during that time I was to become a midwife. So you had you learned a lot. Yeah. You gone past me in what you learned.
00;57;58;06 - 00;58;17;14
Unknown
So where were you training to become a midwife? I mean, I just was doing my own things online. Reading. Yeah. And then I ended up going through RBK, but I literally. So I had interviewed I interviewed with all of our local midwives. They're probably going to hear this. I interviewed or had conversations with them kind of seeking out like, do I want to internship underneath somebody?
00;58;17;15 - 00;58;41;25
Unknown
Like, it's not what I want to do. And those were the most eye opening conversations because they're talking to me like, I'm going to work with them. And I mean, one gallon particular she had like all of her trophy stories, basically, of how she saved these babies. But they are awful. They're awful stories that they were like outing themselves about how they, you know, manipulate.
00;58;41;25 - 00;59;02;04
Unknown
This is what we do. You know, we take on this mini because we know that we can transfer X amount of women in this month. I mean, like it was like seeing the inside that I already knew, but it was exposed and it was so gross to me. And so from that, I left that and said, no, I'm not going that direction.
00;59;02;04 - 00;59;34;14
Unknown
So I was I was doing my own learning online. I was taking courses, reading books, educating myself in my own, my own ways, knowing that I was I didn't need to go through anything because I wasn't going to be licensed. That that would came so clear to me. Like, that will never happen. So yeah. So I felt because I'm curious about your family dynamic because it's an interesting it's an interesting dichotomy where you're so birth is normal in your family.
00;59;34;14 - 01;00;01;13
Unknown
You have a sister midwife, you have a doula mom, but they're all still very much within a paradigm that isn't free birth. Right. And and so then you go like outside of that and invite your mom in. Yeah. Like what? How is that for your family? I'm thinking about your medical midwife sister, you know, like, well, it's not all the same paradigm.
01;00;01;15 - 01;00;29;24
Unknown
Yeah, our midwife sister, I wouldn't say. Yeah, her Midwest is my daughter, not clinical. I mean, her, her first two, three births. She had home birth. Her own by herself. Yeah, the first two times because the midwife didn't get there. No, no, but I times her, she had a midwife, but they didn't make it in time. So she ended up with her first three births.
01;00;29;24 - 01;00;49;07
Unknown
I don't know what she's done since then. So really her training is is in a medical, a medical midwife model. Yes, yes, she had had her own free verse. Yes, but I actually don't. She was comfortable with that. She was comfortable. Totally comfortable with it. Yeah. But I actually don't have a relationship with her at all. And so this hasn't.
01;00;49;09 - 01;01;12;16
Unknown
Yeah. I don't even know if she knows I free birthed. Yeah. Got our lives. So it's mostly with mom. Yeah but I have yeah. It has been the more radical decision within my sibling group I've made. So they probably you know I'm sure there's I have siblings who think I'm a little crazy. And they've always thought that, you know, I've probably always kind of pushed that.
01;01;12;19 - 01;01;34;18
Unknown
So it's been okay. Nobody's been nobody's been against it. They kind of just like, Audrey's going to do what Audrey's going to do, because that's what mom gets on board. Yeah. So she. Yeah. She agreed. Yeah. We we talked about it. I would say we have passively free birth. Those of us that have had birth without an attendant.
01;01;34;18 - 01;01;52;08
Unknown
And you have actively free birth. Yeah. When they just didn't show. Yeah. Well, I chose that way ahead of time. Yeah, sure. But you did. You got on board and you said, okay, I'll come and I'll be. I found myself having no choice. My. Oh. With yours. Yeah. With. Well, you could have I believe you could have gone to the hospital.
01;01;52;14 - 01;02;18;07
Unknown
You know, I really believe I believe we were protected from. I'm not sure what, but I believe we were protected in staying home for that. For sure. Very much. We both felt such peace. Yeah. And actually, my mother was there to be with my two little ones during that time. And I was her third baby and I was home birthed.
01;02;18;09 - 01;02;46;11
Unknown
Oh, so three, three, three. It's kind of in our generations. And hers was not intentional either. But she was she was out on the farm in Pennsylvania. The snow was heavy. The doctor had been to see her that afternoon and said, oh, you're not going to have this baby for a while. But she did. So yeah, yeah. But you think you got on board with coming to my for free birth, even though you shared your reservations?
01;02;46;11 - 01;03;06;16
Unknown
I was like, yeah, you can say it. Yeah. And for us, dessert, you know, I mean, everything she says. Good. Yeah. We had already talked about this was not new information. We already knew this. My husband and I had already discussed all the possibilities, all the emergencies. You know, possibly that you could lose your baby anywhere at any point.
01;03;06;18 - 01;03;16;17
Unknown
You know, in any model of care, you can lose your baby. So we had we felt very confident in that and that birth.
01;03;16;19 - 01;03;34;08
Unknown
I was like 40 and four, and I was feeling pretty annoyed that I just wanted to have this baby. You know, how you kind of get you're like, oh, I'm ready. And I was, I did I felt pretty ready to just be done being pregnant. But, we were headed to the chiropractor and contractions just kind of hit me in the middle.
01;03;34;08 - 01;04;04;10
Unknown
And they had two that hit pretty quick. And I thought, you know what, I'm just going to time these and just see where they're at, because I'd had this precipitous birth beforehand. And so I had been carrying around my birth stuff with me. I drove and I had had dreams. I had this dream of this car side birth where I had all my kids, my foster kids, everybody in this in our little hatchback Subaru and I like pulled over at a way station and like pep got in the back and like, had my baby and my dream.
01;04;04;10 - 01;04;22;06
Unknown
Like, I was literally, like, holding up my. I had an infant. She had she came into her home the moment I got pregnant. So she was nine months by the time I was giving birth. And so in my dream, I was like holding her up, keeping her away from the placenta. Anyways, it was a very, very vivid dream and I just thought, you know, I'm going to have a baby.
01;04;22;09 - 01;04;38;06
Unknown
It's going to come faster and more furious. And so I was so like, okay, wherever it is, just please don't let it be the grocery store because that's disgusting. So like that's that was really like the I felt fine wherever I was going to be was going to be fine, but I just didn't want it to be the grocery store.
01;04;38;06 - 01;04;58;05
Unknown
And so I timed him and they were they were pretty quick. And we thought, you know what? We were picking up our raw milk somewhere. We're like, let's pick up the raw milk. Forget the chiropractor, let's go home. Because I felt like this is happening snappier than, you know, it doesn't feel to spread out so that that birth ended up being six hours, which was very beautiful and perfect.
01;04;58;06 - 01;05;17;25
Unknown
So we got home and it was it was lunchtime. Got my little ones down for naps and then I just my husband, I went for a walk and I just felt like, you know what? I want to stay outside. I can't stay outside any longer. And so we just walked and walked and walked around town in between contractions, same little loop around and around and around.
01;05;17;25 - 01;05;41;23
Unknown
And then I finally remember getting to a point where I thought, you know, I'm feeling really vocal, like it's time to go inside because I'm going to start being loud out here. And so went inside and had it planned. My plan had been doing a birth in my bathroom. And so that's where I went. Labored there at the counter, just swaying through contractions.
01;05;41;25 - 01;06;03;09
Unknown
At one point my my water broke all over the floor. My little three year old was in there, and he was kind of like, what is that? My mom was there just with the kids because they woke up. They were like, watching a show kind of coming back and forth, check on mom, go back. And it was it was really like the most simple labor, like just the simplest thing that ever happened.
01;06;03;13 - 01;06;29;14
Unknown
Finally, transitions really prepared your kids. Well, yes, we oh, totally. I mean, we were like the oldest one. She was. She was a tall. Yeah. And she took some amazing pictures. Yeah, yeah. Pictures are always I can I can see him now. Oh. Beautiful pictures. How old was she? He was seven. I want to say seven. Yeah, she would have been seven.
01;06;29;17 - 01;06;46;14
Unknown
So. Yeah, it was just like the most normal family thing to happen. And then finally contractions got so strong and they kind of threw me to my hands and knees. So I was down on hands and knees, and then all of a sudden, I was pushing, you know, it was time I could tell. Like, nobody had to tell me.
01;06;46;15 - 01;07;07;15
Unknown
It was just like. Like I knew I knew all this about birth now, but it was so beautiful to experience it myself. Like nobody had to tell me anything. And I was pushing his. His head was out. That felt totally fine and good in the normal pause. Who knows how long it was? I have no idea. Until my next contraction.
01;07;07;15 - 01;07;38;11
Unknown
And then he came all the way out. My husband kind of directed him underneath my legs and I picked him up, and that was like the or moment of finally just me and my baby. And like nobody else to regulate the time afterwards. And that feels very much burned in my memory of like, I finally got to meet my baby by myself with nobody else to on your page, on my own pace.
01;07;38;12 - 01;07;58;17
Unknown
Yes. To look at him. To discover him. We talked a lot about, you know, nobody else is going to tell me his gender. Anything else? It had been a wild pregnancy. But my daughter, I have a video of her, and it's it's probably the first one that went viral because I don't remember hearing any of this, but she's watching from the outside and just going, oh, mommy, you did it.
01;07;58;17 - 01;08;22;15
Unknown
You're so strong. You did it, mommy. And I didn't hear any of that. Like I was just gone in my in my baby bubble with with my son. And then it just was so it was just so easily I remember being there. And then finally, I think we tried for the placenta. I kind of thought, you know, I like it wasn't out before I laid down, but it wasn't ready.
01;08;22;15 - 01;08;43;14
Unknown
And so went and finally got settled on the bed. Ate something. And then after a while it was like, oh yeah, it's time. And I had probably my worst afterbirth pains with that one, which I kept just telling myself, this is really, this is really good. This is my body is doing what it's supposed to. This feels like hell, but it's so good.
01;08;43;17 - 01;09;09;11
Unknown
It's awful. Yeah. Like, this is what's supposed to happen. This is what's supposed to happen. And I decided I was going to go all natural and do like these, these, like, cotton pads. Anyways, blood was pooling more than felt comfortable. So that was probably the hardest part of that. Birth is like a visually. I hadn't seen my own bleeding after birth because when you have in the hospital with medical midwives, like they're taking care of all of it.
01;09;09;12 - 01;09;28;15
Unknown
Yeah. And and they're moving it very quickly. I haven't really seen that. And so I did we called a friend and said, can you go buy Chuck's pads? Because seeing the blood kind of pool on these like cotton cloth things that we had was just like visually like I was not. I was not feeling good with that. I wanted to see it absorbed.
01;09;28;17 - 01;09;45;08
Unknown
And so that I had like, I've had a huge season of anxiety coming out of my eating disorder, where I did tons of mental work and how I control my mind and my thoughts. And I realized at that point I was having like anxiety and fear that was coming up, that was making me feel like, oh, I'm not okay.
01;09;45;10 - 01;10;13;28
Unknown
You know, because I was telling myself this story that I was hemorrhaging. I wasn't, but I recognized that, and I and was able I was I was able to be fine. But I realized I'm having a lot of fears coming up about I'm feeling fine. I'm fine. Still in this is after the placenta, okay. The placenta. But then I also recognize, you know, seeing this pooling blood is not helping me.
01;10;13;28 - 01;10;32;17
Unknown
So let's get rid of the pooling blood. Let's get something we can absorb that can absorb. And that that helped I was I was fine. It was such normal bleeding. I mean, in retrospect it was such a normal bleeding. But I had just never seen that for myself. And so that was probably the like there was no fear in the entire birth.
01;10;32;17 - 01;10;57;00
Unknown
But that was my moment of fear was like dealing with my bleeding for the first time. But that was a beautiful that was a beautiful postpartum. I had a weird so I had another moment here. So this was this was my pain point, my fear. Not my pain point. My fear point. Like five days out, I had gotten up and around more than I should have, and I passed a bunch of clots.
01;10;57;00 - 01;11;17;01
Unknown
And I had this moment of panic again. And this, this, this, like, took me back a decade. So I used like probably a decade before. This is when I went through anxiety and I would call 901. Like, I'd just do it like we would just like, yeah, I'm telling you, this is a whole nother story. But like I was I went through severe, severe anxiety to where, like, I didn't even want to leave the house by myself.
01;11;17;03 - 01;11;38;11
Unknown
We would drive to an emergency room and park outside until I was sure I wasn't dying like it was bad and I and this was coming off all the medications that they had given me. And so that part of it, you would say that again, that probably were making you crazy. Exactly, exactly. But this moment. So I had this moment of fear that felt like the old version of me.
01;11;38;12 - 01;11;59;00
Unknown
Like what? And I told my husband to call 911, and he did this five days out. And after I told him that, I realized, oh my goodness, this is this is fear, adrenaline. I'm not bleeding out like, this is ridiculous. And like I have to change my mind. And I started singing and I started praying and the EMTs rolled up and I was fine.
01;11;59;00 - 01;12;16;26
Unknown
I was totally fine. They walked in. I was already casual and like, I'm good, I'm fine. They're like, do you want to check your bleeding? I was like, there's a woman. You're like, you're like, I'm just breaking mental patterns. I know it, it has nothing to do with you. I told you I was like, I had a moment of fear.
01;12;16;28 - 01;12;31;06
Unknown
I think I'm fine. We'll take your blood pressure. Yeah. Your blood pressure is good. Like it was. It was kind of a laughable thing. And the gal who showed up, there's lady there, and I actually know her personally. And she was like, going to look at your bleeding. I was like, sure, you can look at my bleeding. And she was like, yeah, honey, you're fine.
01;12;31;06 - 01;13;00;09
Unknown
I was like, I know, like, I already know I'm fine. So I already realized that. But it was it shows you actually what can happen, though, in that panic moment where people make these, you know, these, these quick decisions where, and so that was I never haven't experienced that in my fourth birth at all. And I had to overcome that, I did I realized that's that's the thing that's the story that I had been telling myself was that like, the one thing was that I could I could bleed out.
01;13;00;11 - 01;13;21;15
Unknown
And after that, you know, that was everything else was was beautiful and fine and lovely. Postpartum had none of the anxiety or the disconnect or anything that I had felt with, with either my, my actual birth or even like integrating the birth. All of that felt integrated. And even I think of that second birth, had I not been.
01;13;21;16 - 01;13;46;16
Unknown
Yeah. Had nobody's been there when he did emerge, it probably would have been just fine. I probably would have dealt with the same integrating problems as much. It sounds like the clots on day five were your like opportunity to replay a pattern that then thank God because of the work you've done, you were able to interrupt it instead of just repeat it like you started to repeat it.
01;13;46;16 - 01;14;11;10
Unknown
And then by the time they got there, you had completed it. Sounds like it. Yeah. Which makes sense. I mean, we do this, we bring our unconscious stuff forward, and then we're at these crossroads where if we're not conscious and have done no work, we just repeat patterns constantly, or you interrupt it and complete it and end it, which you literally did.
01;14;11;10 - 01;14;32;11
Unknown
It sounds like in real time. Yes, that was totally it. But this is a cool part of it. Between 3 and 4 is when I started supporting Burroughs and my first birth, I supported. I realized I'm like, walking. So the mom, you know, she's giving birth, beautiful, beautiful birth. Placenta has been birth or doing the first little journey to the bathroom.
01;14;32;11 - 01;14;52;23
Unknown
And so I'm holding a Chuck's pad underneath her as we make this journey to the bathroom. And the same feelings wash over me. Like. Like I'm like, I'm hemorrhaging, you know? But I'm. I'm really fine. And I realize this, and it's like, whoa, this is so crazy cool. I still have this story in me. And I was able to be like, no, this is not my story.
01;14;52;23 - 01;15;14;17
Unknown
This is not her story. I am fine, she is fine. Everything is totally okay. But I realize, like, it's still there and it totally went away. Like once I was able to pinpoint it and be like, I mean, I verbalized nothing, you know, this is all inside my mind that I'm like, whoa, I still have that story. I thought.
01;15;14;18 - 01;15;36;09
Unknown
I thought it was totally, you know, I'd gotten I dealt with it with these clots. I thought that was gone. And so. Well, I would argue in a way, I mean, it's just semantics, but I would argue in a way it is gone if you are so consciously resourced to handle it every time it surfaces. Exactly. So I would totally agree.
01;15;36;09 - 01;15;58;07
Unknown
I would totally agree. Those things love to come back up if they can. Yes, it's having that. It's like bigger than us. It's like, yes, it's the water we're swimming in. Yeah. So okay, so then it sounds like from the time you have your third until your fourth, this is when you've now taken our book, you've had your free birth.
01;15;58;07 - 01;16;18;21
Unknown
So I feel like a lot changes in your life in that next year. How old is your fourth. You said he's a year now. My. Yeah he's a he's a year. Yeah okay. So it's been so I've been it's been like three years. Oh wait. What do you mean he's just. When is his birthday. Oh yeah. He's 14 months.
01;16;18;21 - 01;16;47;14
Unknown
Yeah yeah yeah yeah. So I've been I've been supporting women for about three years. Cool. Yeah. So tell us about that into your so and I had, I had done some I wouldn't say I was like had a business model prior to my third birth. But after him it like solidified. Yes. This is the work I fully want to be doing, not just offering to kind of support in ways I can for women who are pregnant, which has been was kind of what I was doing.
01;16;47;14 - 01;17;11;23
Unknown
And so then it became it became a business. I was like, I'm, I am doing this. And so, yeah, was I put myself out there, I, you know, started growing my business. RBK school was pivotal in that, in me being able to put a framework to what I already felt the calling to do. It was like the needed pieces for me of, of of putting it all together.
01;17;11;26 - 01;17;33;28
Unknown
So that felt huge because there were questions in my mind of like, I know I don't want to be licensed, okay, but how does this actually look? Right? I already know what I know, but how do I actually make this happen? And so that was that was exactly what I needed at that time and really, really pivotal in yeah, in in putting it all together.
01;17;33;28 - 01;17;57;09
Unknown
And then obviously from there on out, the only, the only thing to do would be to stay home and have your baby. But this my fourth birth, that pregnancy I had felt beforehand like I would have twins that had kept coming up for me. And then in pregnancy, I was I felt so sure that there were twins. And so I spent a lot of time with the fetus listening around.
01;17;57;10 - 01;18;17;07
Unknown
Are there twins? I just I had this intense feeling like there's two babies in there and, and I couldn't and sometimes I'd be like, maybe I'm picking up something double. I'm not sure, but that might be the center. And so I had a few times where I'd be like, maybe. I'm not sure. And I talked to my mom several times.
01;18;17;07 - 01;18;39;11
Unknown
I've been like, you know what? This one could be twins. So, you know, she didn't she didn't make it. I had that maybe a little early. But I just said, just so, you know, it could be twin, because that kept that kept coming up for me that entire pregnancy. His labor was 11 hours and started in the night.
01;18;39;11 - 01;18;56;25
Unknown
It was my first labor that ever started in the night. All my babies were day babies. The births happened during the day. Oh, right. But also your mom lives in a different state. So how did you guys orchestrate that? Well, we would I mean, with the other birds we just planned, you know, she was going to come out, like, 39.
01;18;56;27 - 01;19;14;20
Unknown
Told me when to come. Yeah. Whenever I say come, she comes. Come. Yeah. And so my last two had been like 40 and 45. And so the plan was like, well don't even come until 40 weeks that week. I said there early, several times we had like a month ago, we hang out and do all kinds of things.
01;19;14;23 - 01;19;31;22
Unknown
Oh yeah, we totally have. And so I said at this point, I said, mom, I don't care if you're they're not there. Like, I love to have you postpartum because she does the best postpartum care. And so I just was like, if you make it great, if you don't, but don't even come to 40 weeks because like, that just doesn't make sense.
01;19;31;24 - 01;19;52;05
Unknown
Probably, you know, don't even worry about it. So so the way it went and this was another so my first and my fourth were like 38 and five. And so his birth yeah. Started in the night, kind of slept throughout as I could throughout contractions until 5 or 6 in the morning. And then it was like, forget this, I got to get up.
01;19;52;06 - 01;20;14;29
Unknown
We need to get like, I need to be moving. Ate a little breakfast, was in my bathroom, sat on the toilet a lot for that one. It just felt right to be on the toilet, have music going. My kids got up, you know, they come in and greet me, I'm going through contractions and everybody's just kind of like playing, you know, outside, inside eating whatever snacks they want.
01;20;14;29 - 01;20;38;15
Unknown
They always like, mom, you let us do whatever you want when you're labor, you're like, yeah, this is the life. Like, we get all the snacks. We get all the shows like wow, live it up when mom's in labor. So they've joked about that. They're like, we had the iPad and the TV and the phone and they were all going all at the same time, totally like, yeah, it's your it's your lucky day.
01;20;38;18 - 01;20;58;15
Unknown
I moved outside and I kind of thought, maybe I'll have this baby outside in the yard. It'd be amazing. And so I had my husband bring out a blanket and did a lot of just walking through the yard. What time of year? He was born in May. Really? And May here you can have cold days or you can have warm days, but it's a really beautiful day.
01;20;58;18 - 01;21;16;04
Unknown
I had music playing out into the yard, and my kids were kind of walking around behind me and I told them, don't talk to me. You can walk with me, but don't you dare talk to me. I was past way past talking. And that with his work I felt the most. And I'll tell you why. You'll find out at the end.
01;21;16;05 - 01;21;33;19
Unknown
But I the most pressure like I just I was I clicked my nails the nail the day before and I could feel the, the stack starting to bulge down. And I wanted to rip it so bad, like the pressure was just exploding inside me. And I was so upset about it, and I was pulling at it and I couldn't rip it.
01;21;33;19 - 01;21;48;06
Unknown
And I had my husband get a ball to bounce on because I'm like, God will do it. Nope. I was like, go get me a kitchen chair. I'm going to sit on a kitchen chair that didn't do it. And the pressure was like it was. It was the most intense pressure I felt with any birth. Just like I can't even explain it.
01;21;48;06 - 01;22;06;15
Unknown
It was so much pressure. And then I finally felt so fed up with being outside, like, fine, not gonna have it outside, baby, because this is not working. I'm not doing it. And and I felt like he was right there, like he's right there, but the stupid sack won't break. And so, came inside, tried the toilet again, couldn't handle it up.
01;22;06;15 - 01;22;33;06
Unknown
Back on my hands and knees and the same. Exactly the same place where I'd had my baby before. And at this point, I felt just. I honestly, I felt angry, like, why won't this amniotic sac break? Like it would just break all have my baby. And so I just remember being like, oh, and like roaring and pushing for all my mind and my water both broke and his head emerged at the same, the same time.
01;22;33;06 - 01;22;51;00
Unknown
Oh my God. And like, it literally was like a it was a roar. And then his head is out and my husband was trying to wipe my butt because poop is just like, come and come and come and and I just remember being like, don't touch me. I'm fine, I'm fine, it's fine, it's fine. Stop touching me. I don't even know.
01;22;51;00 - 01;23;06;10
Unknown
I don't even think I said don't touch me. I think I just said, it's fine, it's fine, it's fine because I couldn't verbalize anything. And then yeah, there's I think there's like we went back and we watched the video and we're like, yeah, like 4.5 minutes. It definitely didn't feel like that. The next contraction was just a normal rotation.
01;23;06;10 - 01;23;27;09
Unknown
And he was he was right out. And that birth I'd been so sure was a girl. So then I remember picking him up and being like, you know, you feel little testicles and you're like, oh, I was like another boy. It's another boy. And that was again like, oh, just the best. Oh, it's just the best feeling in the world is you and your baby and and you're still coming.
01;23;27;10 - 01;23;46;18
Unknown
I mean, so I feel like I see some videos where women, like, immediately are like, and I never am. I'm still kind of traumatized, but like, oh, this is amazing at the same time. But I thought after that I said to my husband, I don't know if it's a placenta or a baby coming next. I just feel, I don't know.
01;23;46;20 - 01;24;08;29
Unknown
So I felt like something needed to come out. And so I, I bear down and I pushed and like this. I literally like, blasted the side of our door with blood because I, like, pushed a, like clots out like, like, and I was like, oh, that's on a baby. And it ended up. And then I later on, if he was like probably ten minutes later, I finally I birthed the placenta.
01;24;08;29 - 01;24;29;00
Unknown
But I had just been so sure that this was going, this was a twin birth. And so that felt kind of like you were actually you actually felt. Sure. Not just like I did twin, I did, I can't say like the only my only lack of sureness was that I had never felt two hiccups or like, consistently felt two heartbeats.
01;24;29;01 - 01;24;55;14
Unknown
Okay, so we have a beautiful first, a first day with our baby. Like just amazing, you know, just the most perfect postpartum day. And so the next day I get up to go look at my placenta, take it to the kitchen sink, and there are two sacks on one placenta, completely separate sacks. The start of like where in a cord had been attacked like would have started like you can see where it would have come out.
01;24;55;16 - 01;25;19;16
Unknown
So it was they would have been identical twins. So it was vanishing twin and it was. And so when he had to break through, he was breaking through three layers of amniotic sac because he came through the middle and the two layers on the outside. Does that make sense? Like you could see where he tore through the amniotic sac, which is why that pressure built up so much, because it was.
01;25;19;17 - 01;25;42;13
Unknown
There was more he had to burst through to come out. So he was a birth. And I mean, it was a twin pregnancy, a twin pregnancy. And that was like I just remember like, like chills and like crying at the sink and be like, oh my goodness. Like, there was a there was a brother. Like I had been so sure there was a brother and their totally was.
01;25;42;15 - 01;26;06;26
Unknown
He didn't make it, but like it totally started out that way. So that was really that was really, really cool. That's wild to see. Yes. That was amazing. Yeah. And that was she is honored. She is honored that little. Yeah. So he named him. Yes, I mean him. And even on there they have on their wall all her children in the meanings of their names.
01;26;06;27 - 01;26;22;11
Unknown
Yeah. And he's included. Yeah. He's a there's a little inset, I mean, included in it. It's like how it felt to me was like I knew he was there and then he was gone. And so I was searching for him. The whole pregnancy is how it felt because I constantly was searching, like, where is he? Where is he?
01;26;22;11 - 01;26;39;21
Unknown
I know he's supposed to be there. Yeah. And so then I was like, okay, I wasn't, I wasn't it made me be like, I wasn't crazy because I remember, I feel crazy, I keep searching for another baby and like, why am I? Why do I keep searching? And he was and, you know, he was just totally supportive and listening to me.
01;26;39;21 - 01;27;06;08
Unknown
And so that was very reassuring. Like, you weren't you weren't crazy. There were two babies. And then there wasn't. And so I kept my heart kept, like, looking for that second baby. So, yeah, that was my most lovely postpartum. It was the first postpartum that my husband took time off. About time. Man, I know, I know, 27 kids later, I know that's how it feels.
01;27;06;09 - 01;27;32;25
Unknown
Oh my goodness, oh my goodness. And I told him I was like, I'm not doing this again without you. Like, there's no way. And so that was really just because the tilt, the tilt of postpartum being like epic and heavenly to nightmarish. Hell yeah. It's like really they're due to not support. Yeah, yeah. And support being the like one of the biggest pieces of that.
01;27;32;26 - 01;27;52;27
Unknown
Of course. Yeah. So that was yeah, just lovely dreamy. Soaked every bit of it up and and maybe be like, okay, let's do this like ten more times because that was amazing. I don't know that I have ten more birthing years in me, but keep going. I think your body is fooled and thinks, well, what am I supposed to?
01;27;52;28 - 01;28;13;08
Unknown
I guess that's what if you bang out a couple of twins, I know exactly, I know, and my Instagram algorithm keeps sending me triplets and I keep being like, no, no, no, stop it, stop it. That's not let's do that. Let's not do that. So although you could be the first free birthing triplet birth that I've ever heard of, that would be cool.
01;28;13;08 - 01;29;01;00
Unknown
That would be cool. I, you know, I like to do epic things. So, yeah, you know, I'm down for the challenge. I won't know because I'm not getting anything checked out. So we will just, you know, we'll see. So yeah, I think I'd like to hear before we close a little bit about your, like, your community's response, your, you know, not just being a free birther, but also being, you know, professionally in this world and putting yourself out there online, being in a small community, your husband being a pastor of your church community, like, that's a lot that of course, I am familiar with in my own way.
01;29;01;03 - 01;29;33;18
Unknown
And I know a little bit about some of the stuff that you've you've dealt with, but I think that would be I feel like that's an important part of this because, you know, there's there's free birthers who who can keep it pretty quiet and pretty personal, you know, pretty private and stay kind of under the radar. And then there's women like you and I who have taken it up 17 notches and are not here to stay under the radar.
01;29;33;21 - 01;29;54;14
Unknown
So what's that been like for you? How is your business going? What have been the trials, you know, and pain points of being public about something so radical? Yeah, that's a really good question. I was never meant to be somebody under the radar. And I've realized that, like, the times where I have lived that way have been my most depressing times of life.
01;29;54;15 - 01;30;14;17
Unknown
Like, I'm I meant to say I, you know, the truth that I believe to be true. And also I feel very grateful to be an organ. Organs one of the two states that actually recognizes unlicensed midwives. So it gives me I give a little bit more, I feel a little bit more comfortable even with that in, in being vocal.
01;30;14;17 - 01;30;37;15
Unknown
But as far as my my local community, church community, there are like a very small handful of people who are supportive of what I do. And there are a lot of people who either don't understand at all what I do and are against the things that I share and the things that I say and have a lot of ridicule before I open my Instagram account.
01;30;37;17 - 01;30;55;03
Unknown
I went through and blocked a lot of people because I knew it wasn't going to be good for them to even be aware of what I was doing, you know, and I thought, I thought I blocked them all, but I didn't know way. You've never blocked them all know. And so, you know, the gossip, the gossip ring starts.
01;30;55;03 - 01;31;19;26
Unknown
And so then the stories are told about you that are not true whatsoever. And then that might give us. Well, give me one of your craziest. Oh, people. There was some story going around that we drink blood. And I don't know. I don't know where that comes from. I'm guessing it comes from, like, the knife that I have put a piece of in my mouth after the birth, I'm guessing, but I don't.
01;31;20;00 - 01;31;48;28
Unknown
Well, it doesn't have to come from anywhere. Lots of this stuff they said about me. I am crunchy and they drink blood and I'm like, cool, where do we source this? Is it like, whoa, yeah. Anyway, so that was like, oh, that's a good one. And honestly, I don't I really don't know many of them. A lot of them have probably to do with my conspiracy minded everything which I choose to share as well, because if somebody's going to work with me, I'd rather they just know what I think about the world around me.
01;31;49;01 - 01;32;09;01
Unknown
And people will tell me, you know, I heard something about you, and I'm like, I don't want to hear it. I don't I don't care to know. So I really stay as far as I can from that. But there are definitely people who like who left our church because I do and say what I do and say, wow.
01;32;09;01 - 01;32;50;15
Unknown
And that's big. Yeah, yeah, that it is. And my husband and I have been on the same like to be so to be so projected onto perceived hated. You know, I don't believe people actually hate me or you because that doesn't even make any sense. But they can believe that they do and project that onto it. But that's a really big deal that somebody or a group of women or whoever could be so upset about your choice to be who you are and, and and yet under the same faith, like, not not be interested in being.
01;32;50;18 - 01;33;20;08
Unknown
It's just that's like a that's really I mean also great. Like please go. Exactly. Please. For sure. Please. Please go. Please go. Absolutely. But just really the how triggering and how much trauma really is here with women and mothers about birth is really what this is always about. And how dare you bring that up or say that they're that they're trauma, that what they experienced was trauma and not the solution.
01;33;20;08 - 01;33;41;16
Unknown
And the savior in their own. Yeah. In their own worth. So I would say yeah there's definitely been fallout and, and gossip and I mean I felt it's felt a little bit like, you know, The Scarlet Letter you know by show up at church and, and when we, and when we, we just keep having children and not everybody likes that.
01;33;41;16 - 01;34;05;11
Unknown
We keep having children. Yeah. Which is weird because it's none of their business, but people have, you know, people have their weird, but aren't you supposed to populate the Earth with your. Right? Right. I think that was mentioned. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's so it's so hilarious, right? It really is so hilarious. Does it make any sense whatsoever?
01;34;05;14 - 01;34;20;00
Unknown
You know, and we homeschool our kids. You know, we do. We all all the things we're not we're not messing with the medical system in any way, shape or form. It's like all those things added up. And then I decided to share about it to the world. You know how there are better when I was quiet? How dare I share it?
01;34;20;01 - 01;34;49;25
Unknown
And you have you also have the nerve to add in humor. Don't do that. Which is incredibly offensive as a woman, because then it's our and rude. And how dare you say that? Because they feel called out and that's uncomfortable. Yes, exactly. So it's. But at the same time, I've grown the most beautiful community of women here that I have both served, and other women who have come into that group, which is just it's just lovely.
01;34;49;25 - 01;35;13;22
Unknown
It's just the most beautiful, authentic, loving group of women that feels like such a like walking into that group versus walking into the other group is like, whoa, this is incredible. And so that's been such a huge blessing to me. And I know, I know that birth is my calling. I can say that like, like 100% like, that is what I'm called to do.
01;35;13;22 - 01;35;32;11
Unknown
And when I am supporting women in birth, it feels it's such a flow state, like I can't even put into words. It's so it feels. Yeah, I don't know. I don't have to understand it. There's nothing else that I do outside of even my own birth. I mean, being with my children. But like that, sometimes even. That's hard.
01;35;32;14 - 01;35;53;13
Unknown
My children are challenging. You know, being a mom is hard, but that feels like such a natural outpouring. And I and I feel so comfortable in that. And so it's not something I'm not I'm not going to keep sharing or doing just because I upset somebody. I just simply don't don't care. Does it hurt? Yes. Yes. Those things hurt.
01;35;53;15 - 01;36;08;22
Unknown
They do. Yeah. Like it would be stupid to be like that then affect me at all. Like I wouldn't be human. Those things do hurt. And some of the people that turn on you are the people who are closest to you. And so that does hurt. And so there are people that I thought that I could trust and I definitely cannot.
01;36;08;23 - 01;36;32;12
Unknown
And so that's definitely been, yeah, grief that I have walked through and continued continued what I'm doing. And so my business is going well. And it's something that I'm really doing as I can between babies, because there's only so much I can do. I see so much potential, but also like I'm only one person and I'm still having babies.
01;36;32;12 - 01;36;53;12
Unknown
And so it's been beautiful because I can only do what I feel up for. And I have I've done a few things that I've been like, well, that was too much like, pull back, I can't do all that now. I'm sure, I'm sure, I'm sure you've felt the same thing. But even I think it even validates you that you were in the middle of what you were offering to other.
01;36;53;15 - 01;37;16;29
Unknown
Yeah. That valid? Yeah. Oh, totally. Whole thing. Yeah. So yes. And it's really as I mean, I'm 42 and there's this really beautiful thing I'm realizing about these like young moms that I get to support that because I've walked through motherhood for quite a while. I just, I, I have a wisdom that I didn't have when I was a new mom, and I didn't necessarily.
01;37;16;29 - 01;37;41;06
Unknown
I mean, I had my own mom speaking, speaking into me, and I'm grateful for that. But I didn't have these other women speaking into me. And I feel like that's given me so much depth and perspective that I'm almost grateful that I like that. I started it when I did, when I had already accumulated a lot of just even wisdom and perspective from life that had I jumped into this after my first birth, I wouldn't have had.
01;37;41;08 - 01;38;25;27
Unknown
And so that's been a yeah, that's been really lovely as well. So yeah. So I have another baby coming sometime in 2026. Writing. Yeah. Maybe more. Who knows I don't know. Yeah, it's definitely good vetting to the more the more you craft yourself in who you really are. Like in your most authentic congruent self. That is the best vetting that we have for the people around us, because the people who shake off weren't here for your for your most congruent self, which is so disorienting and confusing because of our attachments.
01;38;25;27 - 01;38;53;19
Unknown
But also it's all in the highest. The highest track. Yeah, exactly. And the people then who stick around mean a lot more. Exactly. Yeah, because you're real. I thought of you in the middle of the night, since I'm obviously getting up to go pee every 15 minutes. Is it 15 minutes? Really good. By making it through this? Oh my goodness.
01;38;53;20 - 01;39;20;00
Unknown
I know if I sit, I can kind of like forget about it for a second. But anyway. But I thought of you in the middle of the night. This is very anticlimactic story, because I thought of something hilarious that was really, really funny about the birth world, and I had the thought, I need to tell Audrey this funny ass thing so that she can make something with it.
01;39;20;02 - 01;39;43;21
Unknown
And no, but this is so anticlimactic because I woke up, and all I remember is that I thought of something hilarious like, yeah, I can't remember. I can't remember what the thing was, but if it comes back to me, you're going to get you're going to get a super random DM of it was really, really funny. Okay. I hope it comes back to you on another I do too.
01;39;43;22 - 01;40;07;25
Unknown
Middle of the night P venture. Yeah. And please tell me. Well, I just listened to your podcast last week and just felt a lot of comfort at how awful your first trimester was, because my horrendous and I told myself, really good at this. Now you're going to have a really good first trimester because you're really good at this now, which is silly, but it's mine's been horrendous as well and just, just awful.
01;40;07;25 - 01;40;34;14
Unknown
So I was like, oh, I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm like, thank you. Yeah, yeah. Well, we can be good at I mean, maybe there's a hack. Yolanda, I don't know. I don't think about about the liver and gam or she has she teaches something in him in my that I didn't that I didn't take about how to hack your first trimester, but I don't know what it is, and I obviously don't know it.
01;40;34;17 - 01;40;54;21
Unknown
Well, you're on the other side now. Well, almost getting there. Yeah. Close. Close. Yeah. Oh, God. Feeling a little better, but it is miserable. And I did think, oh, I mean, I really would like to have as many children as I can, but at that those three months, I thought to myself, this happened the last. Oh, it was dark.
01;40;54;28 - 01;41;18;16
Unknown
It was, it was it got dark for me. Yeah. Mine was, mine was too. It was. Yeah. I had a few do I do I want to be alive? I'm not sure. Let me think about it. Yeah, sure. So. And then it's just so crazy how you snap out of it, and then everything is, like, cute again.
01;41;18;20 - 01;41;39;19
Unknown
Really? Yeah, it really is wild. What? What adventure it is. Yeah. Well, thank you both for your time. Thank you. It's been really fun. Thank you. Yeah. I've never done this before. Yeah. Oh, you were great. What did dad say this morning? Oh. Never mind.
01;41;39;21 - 01;42;02;24
Unknown
Awesome. I appreciate it, and. Yeah, this was so cute and so excited that you're pregnant again. And keep in touch. Yep. And congratulations to you, too. Yeah. Thanks. Thanks, Emilee. Thank you. All right. Bye. All right, women, I hope you enjoyed the show today. You can support this podcast by donating to it through the link in the show notes below.
01;42;02;24 - 01;42;26;12
Unknown
And of course, leaving an awesome review on whatever platform you listen on. The more reviews, the more visibility the show gets. So let's spread the good word of free birth. Don't forget, you can watch all of my podcast interviews on YouTube and see the women as they tell their birth and power stories. And you will also find our viral, free worth collection of epic Raw Birth videos on our YouTube channel.
01;42;26;12 - 01;42;47;19
Unknown
So make sure you're subscribed. We always have a lot going on at Free Birth Society, and you can find out about all of it at Free Birth Society. And I am at Free Birth Society on Instagram. Please opt in to my newsletter below so that you don't miss a thing. We offer courses on free birth, sovereign birth work as well as one on one coaching women's retreats so much.
01;42;47;21 - 01;43;11;16
Unknown
Our exclusive private vetted membership. The Lighthouse is definitely something to check out. If you are looking for a community of wise sisters to get guidance from and to meet in real life. Together we rise. Sisters. We must speak our stories, fully, claim our lives, and support one another. This is the living revolution and I am so grateful to be in it with all of you.
01;43;11;22 - 01;43;12;25
Unknown
Till next time.
