00;00;03;09 - 00;00;38;12
Unknown
Welcome to the Free Birth Podcast, a supportive space for people who are learning and exploring and celebrating their autonomous choices in childbirth. Together, while unpack truths, share personal stories and claim our ability to birth freely and intuitively. Here's your host, Emily Saldana.
00;00;38;15 - 00;01;06;14
Unknown
Today on the podcast, we have Maya from Oregon. After intentionally conceiving her daughter Shasta in, well, Mount Shasta, she got intuitive guidance that her baby wanted to be born in Maui. So at eight months pregnant, she made her way to the beautiful island of Hawaii and with the help of a dear brother of hers, birthed her baby in a small hut on her own.
00;01;06;17 - 00;01;31;15
Unknown
Welcome to the Free Birth podcast. Today we have Maya with us. Hi, Maya. Hello. Thanks for joining us. Know she is a free birthing mama, so she's here to share her story with all of us today. Where are you living now? Maya. I am in southern Oregon in Grants Pass. And how old is your little one?
00;01;31;17 - 00;01;54;12
Unknown
She is a little over two and a half now. She's pretty awesome, but definitely two and a half. Yeah. What's her name? Her name is Shasta. She was conceived on Mount Shasta. And actually the woman that inspired me to do, my free birth also did a free birth. And I met her while we were on a retreat on Mount Shasta.
00;01;54;12 - 00;02;12;08
Unknown
And she was about seven months, seven months pregnant at the time. So she's really, like the first woman I'd ever met who wasn't, you know, getting all sounds and going to prenatal and all the stuff. And she was just kind of living on the mountain and just totally present and in great shape hiking. And I was just like, you're seven months pregnant.
00;02;12;08 - 00;02;31;25
Unknown
This is amazing. And she really inspired me to follow my own path. Most of my life, I've just intuitively felt like the way that people were doing it was wrong. Like that. Just the idea of a woman lying down to give birth didn't make any sense to me. I was like, you would think you'd want gravity. Helping like that just doesn't seem right to me.
00;02;31;27 - 00;02;56;21
Unknown
And I already had my own views of, like, the medical industry, and I'd had, some positive experiences in alternative medicine and an alternative health. And so I kind of just started researching on my own, like, you know, nonconformist alternative, birthing, I guess, ideas, though I don't think I really knew about free birthing until, you know, I was just I was totally for natural birth.
00;02;56;21 - 00;03;19;01
Unknown
But I didn't know about free birthing until, I met this woman, Rachel. And I don't. Yeah, because she just had no plan. She's like, I'm just present. I don't, you know, I don't have an ObGyn. I'm not planning on having a baby in a hospital. She was just totally, like, in her power. So. And then I later I started reading about free birthing and Doctor Laura Shanley and other people.
00;03;19;04 - 00;03;28;25
Unknown
And so at what point in your pregnancy did you align yourself knowing that that was going to be your your path with this baby?
00;03;28;28 - 00;03;57;25
Unknown
Well, I was kind of open to finding a midwife. So I actually did meet with a few midwives when I was living in Mount Shasta, but, because I was living there at the time. But I'd also early on, like maybe two weeks after conception, a friend who's, very psychic and intuitive had asked me where the baby wanted to be born, and I never even heard that question before, but Mallory just came out of my mouth and totally surprised me because I'd never been to Maui.
00;03;57;25 - 00;04;24;12
Unknown
I didn't have any connections in Maui. It's not like I have a lot of money. Just go flying off to Hawaii to give birth. You know? I was like, what? But throughout the pregnancy, I kept checking in and my intuition just kept saying, you should. You need to go to Maui, you need to go to Maui. And so, so I guess I met with some midwives, but I didn't really feel like I was going to be, you know, in, in, Mount Shasta or Oregon for the birth.
00;04;24;15 - 00;04;42;12
Unknown
And I just kind of felt like it'll work out as it's meant to. Maybe I'll have a midwife. Maybe I'll just, you know, do it on my own. I did feel. I feel like that the free birth. I just feel like it's more natural and, like, you know, you don't have the inhibitions. You don't have the,
00;04;42;14 - 00;05;02;10
Unknown
What do they call it when you're being disturbed? Basically, in undisturbed birth. It just made so much sense to me intuitively and logically. So I flew I flew to the Big Island. First I was, I was in Mount Shasta, and I was just freaking out, trying to make the decision of whether to stay or go because I still, like I knew what my intuition was telling me, but I was terrified.
00;05;02;10 - 00;05;21;01
Unknown
Like, sure, I was basically going on my own. I, I've been trying to find connections in Maui, but just nothing had panned out. And so it came down to just, I guess I was, I was probably seven and a half months pregnant when I came down to the point of like, okay, I need to decide now.
00;05;21;02 - 00;05;44;09
Unknown
Like I can't, you know, I need to make a decision. And so a couple of signs and, and, and synchronistic meetings with people in Mount Shasta connected to Hawaii. Made me make the final decision, like, okay, I'm going to go to Hawaii, but I made a safer decision for me, which is flying to the Big Island first because I did have multiple connections and potential places for birthing, on the Big Island.
00;05;44;11 - 00;06;04;01
Unknown
So I flew in there when I think I was eight months pregnant. So yeah, about a month before she arrived. And, I spent two weeks on the Big Island. I was living with these amazing midwives and dolphin birth retreat women. They would take me out some of the dolphins every day, and, everyone's like, just stay there, stay there.
00;06;04;01 - 00;06;17;26
Unknown
And I was like, I have to go to Maui. Like, it just didn't feel right. And again, I had to make that choice. Like, I was terrified to, like, leave this situation that I'd found on the Big Island because I still hadn't found any connections on Maui. But I was just like, I just I just have to go.
00;06;17;26 - 00;06;35;11
Unknown
Like, I just don't I don't know why I have to get to Maui. And the energy on the Big Island is much different. And now it's I just had some kind of like, low lying anxiety. I don't know if it's a volcano energy or what, but I just, I didn't feel like I was in the right place. And when I got to Maui, I completely felt like, okay.
00;06;35;12 - 00;06;59;17
Unknown
Like I felt it. I was like, I'm supposed to be here. Like, this is the best place for me personally to give birth. Wow, talk about listening to your guidance. I landed. Yeah. And I'd been I'd been practicing that for. Well, yeah. You know, it's always a long story, but I've been kind of on a a path. I used to work in, the tech industry in Los Angeles.
00;06;59;17 - 00;07;22;23
Unknown
And I had been doing more meditating and yoga and stuff, and I got laid off. And then I decided to sell everything and move to Argentina. And then I lived in Italy for a year, and then in Italy, I was living in an ashram. So there's lots of meditation and just really connecting with intuition. And so I've been practicing, you know, taking those terrifying leaps and following intuition for a couple of years at that point.
00;07;22;25 - 00;07;39;19
Unknown
And I don't think, you know, if I hadn't have met Rachel, who is the the woman I talked about the free birth from Mount Shasta. If I hadn't met her, I don't think I would have been able to conceive the way that I did. And then, like, make those those leaps of like, okay. But, you know, I was like, okay, she did this.
00;07;39;19 - 00;08;00;12
Unknown
Like, she totally was following intuition and she trusted. And it worked out perfectly. And like, she had an amazing birth and like, I don't have to be scared and like, this is doable. And I feel like this is the right thing for me to do, even though it's terrifying. Totally. It's so important to have those guides in our life, especially entering, you know, a birth, a birth stage of your life where so much of it is fear based.
00;08;00;12 - 00;08;30;00
Unknown
And, you know, the default model is is quite the opposite of what clearly your intuition was guiding you towards. Yeah, it's so important. And it is it is such a practice that intuitive listening and it's, you know, it speaks volumes that you've fine tuned it to a degree that when your intuition or your baby's telling you to go to a place you've never been and leave the dolphins and leave Mount Shasta and all of the stuff that you just knew to do it, and you know, and it was the right move.
00;08;30;00 - 00;08;40;01
Unknown
So. So then so you arrive in Maui and walk me through kind of the the weeks leading up to the birth.
00;08;40;03 - 00;08;57;19
Unknown
So it was it was two weeks before the birth, I think. Was it? Yeah, two weeks, because I did two weeks in the Big Island and then two weeks on Maui. I think I could be wrong on the timing, but I arrived there, and it just happened. Synchronous. Synchronous that some of my friends were on vacation in Maui.
00;08;57;22 - 00;09;16;26
Unknown
A couple that are just beautiful people. And they'd arrived the night before I did, and I was couch surfing. Also, like doing this, I couch served on the Big Island. When I got there, until I found an apartment with the midwives and then going over to Maui, I was going to be couch surfing. Because, again, I had no connections.
00;09;16;26 - 00;09;35;06
Unknown
I didn't know anybody there. And my friends had arrived and they got to their resort, and they just happened to have like a little extra twin bed in the corner of their, of their room and they're like, hey, we have a bed for you. And I was like, yay! So I spent the first two nights with them. And then I found a couchsurfing host.
00;09;35;06 - 00;09;53;21
Unknown
And so I spent the next probably couple of nights at his place while I was looking for my own, I was looking for a rental, like where I was going to get birth, you know, and he he was just amazed that I was doing this, you know, pregnant and couchsurfing and, like, about to give birth. And his mother lived next door.
00;09;53;21 - 00;10;13;01
Unknown
She was a French chef. And she totally took me under her wing. And she's like, come like, you know, come stay at my house. I have a spare room for you that, So I stayed with them for a few days, and I ended up finding a little bungalow about a mile away from from the two of them on the same street, on Kapalua and Maui and haiku.
00;10;13;03 - 00;10;31;28
Unknown
And I found it on Craigslist and that because, again, I've been talking to everybody and trying to find, you know, find some place to go. And it just wasn't working, wasn't working. And then I saw this on Craigslist, and it was just perfect because it was a free standing space where basically I had my own little tiny house, and it had two twin beds in it again.
00;10;31;28 - 00;10;49;05
Unknown
So, like, I had a bed and then my, one of my best friends was coming to be with me for the birth, and I call him my man doula. He'd never attended a birth before, but he's just very intuitive. He's a body worker. He's like my soul brother. And we had a very intimate, relationship emotionally, but never sexually.
00;10;49;10 - 00;11;06;20
Unknown
And so it's just it's very interesting dynamic, for the two of us. But he wanted to be there for the birth, and I was like, I would love to have you here for the birth. So he came and stayed. He was there. You read one week before Shasta was born, and then one week after. And then my mother came shortly after that for a few weeks.
00;11;06;26 - 00;11;28;08
Unknown
Wow. I know I feel like Hawaii has this magic that everything just flows and everything is just offered and the right timing. And yeah, it's very it's very unique. So okay, so we're settling into. Yeah, we're settled into the bungalow. You got your your brother soul brother with you to support you. And so then the walk me through the birth house.
00;11;28;09 - 00;11;55;03
Unknown
Oh, wait. I'm sorry. Before we get to that, I did want to ask you. Did you have any prenatal care? What was that? What was that like for you? How did you navigate all of that? So I did, early on in the pregnancy, probably, I think I was about 13 weeks and I was having some really intense pains, and I, I did some research and I was like, okay, it's either the some of those tendons, I forgot what they're called now.
00;11;55;03 - 00;12;16;08
Unknown
The anyways, it could be like some things moving around as you're like growing or it could be an ectopic pregnancy causing the pain. And so I was concerned, you know, I was like I don't want any topic pregnancy. So I went into Planned Parenthood or something and got, one ultrasound just to make sure that, like, she was in the right place and they're like, yep, she's in the perfect place.
00;12;16;08 - 00;12;35;19
Unknown
You're all good. And I was like, okay, so that's the only ultrasound that I had. Because I did, I again, it just ultrasounds don't really feel right to me. And I did, extensive research on them and they haven't been studied. And really, the only reason to get them is if you're going to abort the child if they have some kind of deformity because it doesn't improve.
00;12;35;22 - 00;12;54;08
Unknown
You know, the rates of successful births and all this other stuff. So, so, yeah, I had a quick check at 13 weeks and they're like, everything looks good. I had the easiest pregnancy. I felt super good. I didn't have any side effects. I didn't have any morning sickness. I felt a little tired the first month, but that was about it.
00;12;54;11 - 00;13;08;14
Unknown
Was there any. And so I just felt, you know, I was like, I feel great. Was there anything you were doing in your pregnancy that was that you felt was really contributing to how great you felt?
00;13;08;16 - 00;13;32;22
Unknown
Following my intuition, because I had all these ideas, I was like, okay, I'm going to do yoga, you know, like crazy yoga all through the pregnancy. And I'm going to eat green juices and smoothies and eat super crazy good. And and my intuition is like, no yoga. Like I didn't do yoga until after the first trimester, I think, because, like, my body was like, absolutely no yoga, which I was like, what?
00;13;32;22 - 00;13;52;09
Unknown
And then, I didn't want any vegetables. I wanted dairy, wheat. And, what was the other one? Mostly just like dairy and wheat and some fruits, but not like strawberries. It was it was so strange because, you know, I just had all these ideas of what I was going to be doing that were going to be good.
00;13;52;12 - 00;14;09;18
Unknown
And my intuition was like, nope, you're doing this. And I was like, okay. And I think if I had tried to follow my mind, I think it would have my body would have reacted negatively because I would have been doing things that my mind thought was right. But wasn't necessarily right for my body. Sure. So I found that kind of interesting.
00;14;09;25 - 00;14;33;08
Unknown
Yeah, because it definitely wasn't what I expected, you know? Yeah. And it might be totally different if you have another pregnancy. So that would be interesting to to see. Yes. So and so just regarding the definitely with the prenatal care. So you nobody ever oversee any care for you. Is that accurate or did you do any prenatal care to myself.
00;14;33;10 - 00;14;58;07
Unknown
I did good. Well I did a ton of research and like, you know, just lots, lots of reading, lots of internet stuff, lots of, there's another podcast called optimal, the Optimal Parenting 101, by Brian Johnson. And Alexandra J. Johnson. And they interviewed like, 100 different people and did a really amazing, series. And they're all slightly alternative.
00;14;58;09 - 00;15;18;24
Unknown
You know, midwives, doctors, all kinds of really fascinating people. So I was taking in a lot of information, but I did go to two prenatal appointments in Mount Shasta because, again, I was kind of exploring options. You know, I was kind of open, and I was like, well, I'll just go in and get checked and make sure all my blood levels are good and just everything, you know, checks out.
00;15;18;26 - 00;15;37;12
Unknown
So I went, I chose a doctor and she was younger. She's 33 is a it was a woman. And so I thought maybe she'd be more progressive. But I get to the doctor's office and I, you know, I walk in and I was 30, I think I just turned 35 like a few weeks before. And she's like, oh, well, you're 35, so you're high risk.
00;15;37;14 - 00;15;55;26
Unknown
And I was like, excuse me? Like, I'm not high risk. Like I, you know, I walk three miles a day. I eat super healthy. I've been meditating for years. I do I'm doing yoga like there's no way I'm high risk. And she's like, well, you're 35, so you're high risk. So just like that initial engagement with her, I was just like, no, like, this isn't for me.
00;15;55;26 - 00;16;19;26
Unknown
And so I did the full blood test and they did the gestational diabetes test. I was like, I don't have gestational diabetes. I'm like, well, you have to do the test. My fine. And so, I went back to get my results and she's like, oh, everything's fabulous. Except, you know, you have slight anemia. So here, here's a prescription for iron tablets and here's a prescription for the laxatives, because if you take iron tablets you get constipated.
00;16;19;29 - 00;16;32;17
Unknown
And I asked her I was like isn't there something I could eat like food. Some kind of food. She's like no, no you need to take this. And so I was like I'm not taking those. And later I talked to midwives and they're like, well you can just drink nettle tea. And that gets give you, gives you all the iron you need.
00;16;32;19 - 00;17;00;23
Unknown
And so it's just, you know, it's just kind of a confirmation of like this is I don't want this. Like I don't want any kind of medical input or intervention. Yeah. It actually is unhelpful sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. I don't need to be constipated right now. Gosh. Seriously. Okay. So so how did you in your pregnancy navigate and obviously have a very strong connection to your intuition.
00;17;00;23 - 00;17;28;00
Unknown
And that was a big guiding force. And how did you navigate the choices in free birthing. And then and you know, in walking that line of, you know, the, the, the worry question, you know, what? If something goes wrong, what if, what if what if that worry question, how how did that present for you, if at all, and how did you navigate, you know, being new to birth and obviously you'd you had read a lot and researched a lot, but yeah.
00;17;28;00 - 00;17;32;21
Unknown
How did you find that comfort zone for yourself?
00;17;32;24 - 00;17;54;06
Unknown
Well, definitely reading certain books. Like, I think the first book I read was Childbirth Without Fear by Grantley decreed. And I think, like for me, that book was just amazing because it talks about how all of the pain and suffering that women in our culture, and most cultures nowadays experience during childbirth is because of the fear of the pain.
00;17;54;08 - 00;18;21;22
Unknown
And that actually causes, you know, our system to shut down and less oxytocin and all of these chemical, you know, reactions in our body that the fear actually causes physical, physiological reactions that cause the pain. And so, you know, reading that book really started to move me towards, like, okay, like if I can work on my fears and release as much as possible on the next nine months, you know, I think that will be the most helpful thing that I can do for myself.
00;18;21;25 - 00;18;51;13
Unknown
So and then there's other books, and I'm thinking in the title now, but there's another book that has a lot of exercises in it, that you do during your pregnancy. And a lot of those are working through your fears, like doing different meditations or journaling. And I really spent time, you know, looking at my fear of, of having to go to the hospital and having to have a cesarean and, like, being trapped in this, like, you know, abusive medical system.
00;18;51;16 - 00;19;12;13
Unknown
Because I definitely, you know, had some fears around that. The thing that helped me is, is connecting with the soul of the child because, you know, I think, you know, the child has its own soul and has its own plan. And like my soul has its own plan that I don't necessarily agree with. Like the things that happen in our lives aren't all things that we've hand-picked with the mind.
00;19;12;15 - 00;19;29;23
Unknown
And so just trusting that, okay, this is what I prefer. This is what I think is best. But I also have like a deep trust and faith that it's going to go perfectly and exactly as it's meant to. And, and I also looked at the, you know, the possibility of dying. I was like, I could die, my baby could die.
00;19;29;23 - 00;19;56;24
Unknown
You know, that's a, that's a that's a potentiality, that I was willing to accept just because it felt like I really felt like I, it was my time to die. And my daughter, my connection with her was so strong initially that she wanted to come down, like with with her father and I as the parents. I was like, I don't feel like she's coming down here to die either, but I really it was something that I accepted.
00;19;56;24 - 00;20;15;23
Unknown
I was like, okay, I could die and she could die, and am I okay with that? Yes, because I trust that, you know, we are on the soul path and what's going to happen. It's going to happen. And again, like I did my research and my preparedness and all that stuff. But ultimately, even if you go to the hospital, you can die and your child can die.
00;20;15;27 - 00;20;43;00
Unknown
Exactly. I mean, yeah. So culture paints it as successfully has really let a propaganda, you know, scheme against the out of hospital birth that if you birth out of the hospital, you're going to die or somebody's going to die. And if you birth in the hospital, all the heroes will save you. And it's it's obviously yeah, you can look at actual statistics and know that that's not true for low risk, you know, healthy women and healthy babies.
00;20;43;02 - 00;21;08;15
Unknown
But yeah, it's nice to hear you talk about that because it's something that I feel as well. And, and it's, it's almost taboo to say, you know, that, that you are willing to sit with the reality of life and death, which of course, makes sense when you have life inside of you. And and you know that that death is a thin veil that could happen at any time in our lives, including when we get into the car or go to sleep or whatever.
00;21;08;18 - 00;21;36;20
Unknown
Definitely. Yeah. And there's just there's just so much, there's so much just in our programing and in our culture and just it's so it's all fearful. And, you know, I feel like you know, it was I feel like what we created in the birthing realm and you know, nowadays was started with good intentions. Like I feel like it's basically it was men who had no control and didn't know how to help the women do what they're doing because they can't, you know, they the woman gives birth, the man can't do anything.
00;21;36;22 - 00;21;54;07
Unknown
But I think that fear of like being powerless is what led the men to try to help. But in they're helping. They're interfering, you know, and they're making it worse. And then they're also taking their they're taking the power away from the women, and the women are giving up their power to. But is this, this whole convoluted thing?
00;21;54;07 - 00;22;14;07
Unknown
And, you know, it's awful and it's sad and it's tragic. I don't think it was started with like, malicious intent. I think it was, you know, male doctors that were trying to stop death. I, I happens I think that that against death, you know. Yeah. I think that's super generous. You know, because this is a whole like other topic.
00;22;14;07 - 00;22;38;14
Unknown
But you know, they, they got. Yeah very heavily funded, propaganda, you know, out into the media to, to say that midwives are drunk witches and that, you know, not birthing in the hospital is dangerous. And, you know, those are those are real things you can look up, you know, on the internet today and see these old ads that were funded by these, you know, British, you know, white male doctors that came over here.
00;22;38;14 - 00;23;09;12
Unknown
But but yeah, the hero complex is, is very, overbearing in the hospital system because nobody is allowed to die in our culture unless they're a hundred. It's failure. Yeah, it's a failure. It's nobody's allowed to die unless it's of, like, natural causes at old age. There's a beautiful quote that I just wanted to throw out there, and I don't remember where I read it, but it's somewhere in the readings, that the woman goes to the edge of death to escort the new soul back, like to this side.
00;23;09;14 - 00;23;26;26
Unknown
And I just always love that concept of, like, when a woman's in childbirth, like, she's going to like the very edge of death, and she might not come back, you know, but she goes there to bring this new life from the other side into this world. And just that image for me is such a powerful one. It's so beautiful.
00;23;27;00 - 00;23;56;27
Unknown
Yeah, so much surrender there. And you can see it, you know, as a as a birth keeper who's attended so many births, you can see it at the birth when she goes there and, and it's a lot harder to identify, you know, in a hospital system, particularly if she's medicated, you know, but but if she's. Yeah. In her zone and in her hypnosis and in her, you know, sacred feminine meditation, you can see it.
00;23;56;27 - 00;24;19;20
Unknown
You can feel it when you walk into the room where she is and and it's exactly right, like going to this edge. It's really, really cool. It's really powerful to see. So thank you for sharing that quote. Okay. So let's get to your actual birth story. So walk me walk me through it.
00;24;19;22 - 00;24;40;13
Unknown
Okay. So let's see about a week before the birth happened. I've been reading this book. I was a dream workbook, and it said if you had a question, you should ask it before you go into dream time. And then you might, you know, have a dream or wake up with the answer. And so I wanted to know when my daughter or, you know, I didn't know if it was a girl or boy was going to arrive.
00;24;40;13 - 00;25;02;11
Unknown
And so I went to sleep one night and I asked, like, when will my when, when will my child reborn? And I woke up about two hours later and August 29th was just like, I could just see it. It was like written in my mind. It was very clear. And I was like, well, that's interesting. And so, so that was about a week prior to the birth and it ended up being on.
00;25;02;12 - 00;25;26;24
Unknown
She ended up arriving on August 29th at 851 in the morning. I guess about two days before, she dropped because had had kind of a very high, tight pregnancy where I, I sometimes I would forget that I was pregnant, but, on Tuesday evening, she definitely like it. She just dropped and all of a sudden my belly was like huge and sticking out as waddling.
00;25;26;24 - 00;25;52;06
Unknown
I was like, oh, this is what women talk about. Like when they're waddling and stuff. And so I, you know, I knew she's coming. And I think the night before we were going to go to an ecstatic dance thing, you know, on Maui and just kind of going around with my friend was there and I had another friend that we were spending time with, and I just all of a sudden I was like, I can't like I can't go into that ecstatic dance place.
00;25;52;06 - 00;26;13;11
Unknown
There's too many people here. I need to go home right now. Like, I just was like suddenly like going really like that began to, like, go internal. And so we went home and went to bed around ten. And then I woke up around midnight with, some, like, contractions. And and my friend Remi, my Manjula was still sleeping.
00;26;13;11 - 00;26;35;13
Unknown
I was like, well, I'm not going to wake him up yet, so I had just kind of like light contractions for a few hours and then finally around like 330 or so, I think I was like, okay, I'll wake them up. Now they're getting a little more intense. And so I woke him up and, we had looked up some massages on YouTube, like pressure point, you know, applications and stuff.
00;26;35;13 - 00;26;52;19
Unknown
So he would do that occasionally, like kind of like on my lower back and my hips, like pushing in and upwards, you know, to help with the opening of the sacral area. And I was just kind of up and around like I would I would lay down for a bit, but I was I spent a lot of time on the toilet.
00;26;52;21 - 00;27;22;11
Unknown
I spent some time chanting, I was singing, I was, we did have, I think we had a birthing ball. And and as I would like, you know, be like rolling around on that, or on hands and knees, or just kind of pacing, so I would say from, like, like 4 to 6 a.m., the contractions got intense, more intense, but when he would do pressure points, the pain, would subside.
00;27;22;13 - 00;27;43;11
Unknown
So they weren't really intense until the last two hours. And I definitely feel like I went into a kind of trance state, like I was. I was definitely doing a lot of vocalizing and different chants and even some kind of, like, Native American sounding songs were coming out of me. And like, I was like, I don't, you know, part of my mind was still there and like, where is this coming from?
00;27;43;11 - 00;28;06;01
Unknown
Like, I had no idea, but I was really just, my mantra was, relax, release, relax release, or like, as it got more intense because I was just trying to focus on staying as relaxed as possible and just releasing, releasing, releasing, which is quite, you know, challenging when you're going through contractions. And there's still some fear because we've all had so much fear programed into us.
00;28;06;04 - 00;28;25;17
Unknown
And so, yeah, it's it's kind of a blur, but I know it did get, you know, it got more intense. I definitely had pain. You know, I was kind of hoping that if I had read enough and meditated enough and done enough, that I would kind of skip over the pain. I still believe in orgasmic birth, but I didn't have a sexual partner, you know, present with me.
00;28;25;17 - 00;28;54;21
Unknown
And so I think I definitely still think that that's a possibility. And I would love to do that in the right circumstances. But in this circumstance, it wasn't quite the right circumstances. And so, yeah, just like just up and down and moving and I just going through that too. I can't, I cannot imagine being in a bed or being like, you know, having things strapped to me and not just having my full range of motion to do, like anything that I wanted.
00;28;54;21 - 00;29;18;17
Unknown
And go anywhere that I wanted. That must just be torture, like I can't imagine. So she is getting more intense and she started crowning and, she was crowning for about 45 minutes. And and again, I've never been at a birth. And so all of my stuff had just come from reading. And I kind of felt like when I what I've read is once the baby's crowning, they kind of pop out.
00;29;18;20 - 00;29;40;04
Unknown
And so after 45 minutes, I start getting worried and I start, like, freaking out. Because I've, I've read what can go wrong, like the shoulder getting stuck or the cord wrapped around the what position I went into, like panic. I was still moving all over the place. Like I at that point I couldn't find, like I was I was getting to the point of exhaustion because I had actually, I had vomited.
00;29;40;06 - 00;29;58;03
Unknown
Probably. I'm not sure the time line, but about four hours before she came, which I had never heard about vomiting at all, but the woman, one of the women that I met in Maui, had told me a day or two before, like, oh, yeah, I like totally threw up, you know, during my, my labor. And I was like, what?
00;29;58;06 - 00;30;14;00
Unknown
And then I did it and I was like, did I do it because she says she did all right. Like it's, you know, it's just lucky that she said she did it. So I didn't freak out. Yeah, I, I'm glad that she said it. It's really common. I've used that analogy analogy because another friend of mine who rebirthed and actually this is someone you might want to talk to.
00;30;14;00 - 00;30;31;24
Unknown
Also she pre-birth two weeks before I did on the big Island, and she told me, she's like, I never pushed. And I was like, what do you mean you never pushed? And she's like your body. If you just keep relaxing, your body does it by itself and it's like vomiting. You know, when you vomit, you're not pushing the food out of your stomach.
00;30;31;24 - 00;30;49;22
Unknown
Your body completely does it all by itself. And so, I feel like that tip that she gave me was extremely helpful in, again, like allowing my body to do what it was doing without trying to be like, okay, I need to like, push now or I need to do this, or I need to do that because I even tried pushing a few times near the end.
00;30;49;22 - 00;31;11;25
Unknown
But my will and trying to push with just my muscles compared to the contractions, like the power is just it's like a fraction. It's just kind of silly, like me trying to push it compared to my body doing what it's doing. So. Oh, and another, another part. I felt like the baby was going to come out of my asshole, basically.
00;31;11;28 - 00;31;29;05
Unknown
Like there was so much pressure and I felt like I was just like I was going to prolapse or something. It was awful, terrifying. And so I told my friend Remy, I was like, Remy, you're going to have to apply pressure to my ass. Like I need you to do this. And so he got a paper towel and he smacked his hand, you know, and just applied pressure.
00;31;29;05 - 00;32;01;28
Unknown
And I really feel like that. That was so helpful. That's a good friend right there, right? Yeah. He's amazing. He really that that officially makes him a doula. Look like. And interestingly, he, he been at his father's death the year before. And so I really feel like going through the death experience with his father prepared him to go through the birth experience, like, because, like we were talking about it's a similar energy, you know, that arriving and departing, so, yeah.
00;32;01;28 - 00;32;17;07
Unknown
So she was crowning for 45 minutes. I start freaking out. He's like, no, you got this. It's fine. Everything's good. She's come in. And, but like my mind's just going crazy at this point, and I'm like, I want her out, you know? And there could be something wrong. So I called one of my midwife friends on the Big Island, Kim.
00;32;17;10 - 00;32;42;11
Unknown
And she does conscious pregnancy retreats and swimming with the dolphins. And she's amazing. And so I call her on speakerphone. And in between contractions, like we're explaining, like, you know, she's been crowning for five minutes and I think she might be stuck like, you know, and I was hoping she could walk me through something, you know, to check, like, you know, and he he's like, I can't get my fingers in anywhere around to see about the cord or anything, like there's no way.
00;32;42;13 - 00;32;58;25
Unknown
And so she said she's like, well, you guys might have to go to the hospital. And we both just knew, like there was no there was no way. Like that was absolutely not an option. And I didn't even know what the hospital was. I meant to check and look, but I never did. And we're in the jungle, like, 45 minutes away from anything.
00;32;58;25 - 00;33;13;26
Unknown
So we're like. I was like, absolutely not. And the next contraction, her head popped out. No. And then the one after that, her the rest of her body. So I think I, you know, I just had to get over that mental hurdle, like there was some blockage that I had, which I, I've heard that in most births there is something like that.
00;33;13;26 - 00;33;37;00
Unknown
The total it has to overcome release. She just she heard that she heard that midwife on speakerphone say hospital. And she was like, fine of that. And, and it was funny because, you know, he was crying and I was just relieved. I was like, I'm exhausted. I'm glad she's out. And she's. And it's. And it's a girl like, we found out it was a girl.
00;33;37;00 - 00;33;51;08
Unknown
And again, like, I hadn't, I'd only had that one initial ultrasound when she was 13 weeks old, so I didn't know if she was going to have all of her limbs, like I had no idea. And I also prepared myself for that. I was like, okay, I could have a baby down syndrome. I could have a baby with one leg.
00;33;51;08 - 00;34;16;15
Unknown
Like I said yes to this and I don't know what's what I'm getting, you know? So, you know, when people say it's so amazing when they come out and there's ten fingers and ten toes, but I think when you've had no ultrasounds, it really is amazing. It's like how Covid like it's magic. So did you. And we left the cord attached to, have a sense in your pregnancy that it was a girl?
00;34;16;15 - 00;34;33;18
Unknown
Did she feel like a girl? No, I thought I would. I always thought I wanted a boy, and I would. I checked throughout the pregnancy. I asked, like, are you a boy? Are you a girl? And she would say yes to both. She'd be like, yes, I'm a boy, yes, I'm a girl. And so I was like, am I having twins?
00;34;33;18 - 00;34;52;25
Unknown
Am I having a hermaphrodite? Like, what is this? And, I think it just wasn't for me to know until she came out and even a week or two before the birth, someone said, why don't you ask if she has or the baby has male or female genitalia? You know, as a joke. And so I asked, and I actually got a yes to male genitalia.
00;34;52;25 - 00;35;05;00
Unknown
So I was like, okay, I guess I'm having a boy. And then it came out a girl. It was all just kind of funny, like, I feel like, I don't know if that was her soul just messing with me, or if it was something that I just needed to let go of. But she was lying about. It was a girl.
00;35;05;00 - 00;35;25;20
Unknown
I was like, oh, I'm so glad I had to go. Yeah, she's so she's so balanced. She doesn't even need to need to pick a side, right? Yeah, yeah. Okay. So maybe they don't pick a side, you know, like okay, sorry. Maybe it's like quantum physics where, you know, until observed it. Does it choose wave or particle. Yeah.
00;35;25;22 - 00;35;35;04
Unknown
That's awesome. So you didn't cut the cord and and so you're just like on the floor now or are you up in the bed?
00;35;35;06 - 00;36;01;03
Unknown
Yeah. We're on the bed. I she popped out. I was on my hands and knees on the bed, and Remi was behind me and Carter, and then I just, like, lay down and, he popped her on me, and then, I don't know, I think she started breastfeeding fairly quickly, and we let the cord attached, and I, I was just kind of I didn't want to do the full lotus where you leave it on for like weeks, but I was kind of open to at least living on, you know, for until the cord stopped pulsing.
00;36;01;06 - 00;36;21;25
Unknown
But my intuition had me leave it attached for about two hours. And then we we burned through the cord with the candle, which took a really long time. I think we burned for like, a long time. Then we end up cutting it, like, near the end, because it was just taking really, really long time. And I was waiting for the placenta to come out, and it just didn't.
00;36;21;25 - 00;36;38;23
Unknown
Nothing really seemed to be happening. And so again, this is probably like two, three hours later. I called another midwife friend that lives on the Big Island. Darcy. And I was like, so the placenta isn't coming out. Is there anything I should do? And she's like, yeah, go squat in the shower and cough a little bit and it should come out.
00;36;38;23 - 00;37;05;05
Unknown
And it totally did. And I ended up, consuming half of the placenta in a smoothie. And then the other half we buried in the Iowa Valley because I was kind of torn because I've heard, you know, a lot of cultures have this, custom of of burying the placenta. But I also think it it makes sense to eat it because all mammals, either placenta is to regain the nutrients.
00;37;05;07 - 00;37;24;23
Unknown
So yeah. So I did the smoothie and I did like bananas and pineapple and mango or something like that, and strawberries and it smells a little bit like blood. But when you drank it, it tasted it didn't taste at all like blood or anything. I've never made a smoothie with a full half. You know, I usually just do it with like a chunk.
00;37;24;25 - 00;37;42;06
Unknown
And so I was wondering about that, if you could kind of notice it. Because a half is no joke. I mean, that's that's a lot of meat. Yeah. Is it quite a few cups of smoothie. Yeah. But yeah, it came out good. It I thought it tasted good. Like I said, the smell was a little weird, but the taste was fine.
00;37;42;09 - 00;38;04;12
Unknown
I also love, I love the idea of you going into l valley and burying it, like, with all the tourists, and. Oh, my God, that's. Seriously. And I had heard we did this probably because I went on a hike the day after I gave birth, which it wasn't a serious hike, but is up in the mountains and there's a pine forest, up in the mountains above.
00;38;04;12 - 00;38;23;18
Unknown
Haiku in McCall. And, yes. And my goal and my again, my intuition the day after, you know, because I was, I was pretty sore as a little beat up. I had a slight tear upwards. And but my intuition said that, you know, the day after, like, go for a hike, go for a walk. And I was like, okay.
00;38;23;18 - 00;38;48;20
Unknown
And I just feel like for me getting moving again, like, even if it was just a ten minute walk, was good for my healing, in some way. And then, but then, yeah, a few days later when we went to the Iowa Valley, like, that was a full on hike because we climbed, we went on the path and then we kind of like, ducked off of the path and hiked back to this amazing tree that I found and, and buried half of the percent under there, but.
00;38;48;22 - 00;39;03;05
Unknown
And then we went and sat in the river because there's like a sacred river that runs through the Iowa Valley. And a lot of people are like, you should go there and, you know, swim in there and kind of rinse off. And it's really healing waters. And so, what I did with Shasta is she's a few days old at this point.
00;39;03;08 - 00;39;21;09
Unknown
We went and sat on a rock kind of half in the water, and I had asked for people to send baby blessings like instead of gifts and stuff. And so I had, I don't know, you know, like 70 blessings, from people, from friends around the world. And so I read all of those to her while we were sitting on this rock in the river.
00;39;21;12 - 00;39;45;03
Unknown
And it was I was crying, is beautiful, is really beautiful. But, it was definitely an excursion. So how did your body feel in the air? How long and how long did you stay in haiku? When did you go back? I stayed there for two weeks. In a month. Two months. I because I came back to Oregon in October.
00;39;45;05 - 00;40;05;20
Unknown
So August. September. Yes. I actually was really only there for a little over. Yes, I think I'd be about two months. So a little over a month after she was born. It was definitely painful, you know, like, I just kind of felt like I'd been hit by a truck, you know, like my lady parts were all tender.
00;40;05;20 - 00;40;34;24
Unknown
And then your milk comes in on day four, and for me, the milk coming in and that whole breastfeeding thing was almost as challenging, if not more challenging than the birth. Because like the birth going into that, like you're feeling great, you got your energy, you're ready, and then you get birth and then it's like, okay. But then with the milk coming in, like I was already like sore and just exhausted and emotional and then like, my boobs are hurting and, you know, I'm trying to figure out how to breastfeed.
00;40;34;24 - 00;40;51;23
Unknown
And I'm like, I was so angry. I was like, why is this so hard? Like breastfeeding? And I realized, I've never seen a woman breastfeed. Like, I've seen bottles, you know, and but I just at that point, I didn't have friends that breastfed openly or at all. And so I was like, oh, well, that's why this is so difficult.
00;40;51;23 - 00;41;11;14
Unknown
So I kind of I felt better after I had that realization. Like, it's difficult because our culture makes it difficult because it's so hidden, you know. But I did meet a lactation consultant and she came over and she's like, you're doing great. Like everything's perfect. And I was like, okay.
00;41;11;17 - 00;41;38;03
Unknown
Yeah, I would say, you know, my lady parts were sore for about like a month or so. But I did have, another midwife of friends of friends. And she came to check me out about a week after Shasta arrived, because I was kind of concerned. I was like, what if I have an infection? And, like, I was just terrified of even, like, touching or looking or anything down there really, because I was like, I don't know what's going on out there because, you know, you swell up and everything's kind of disarranged for a little while, but it all goes.
00;41;38;03 - 00;41;57;21
Unknown
I know for me it all went back, so that's good to know. But the midwife came and she checked me out and she's like, yeah, I had a little tear. But it's, you know, you don't need stitches. Everything's fine. You look good. And she weighed Shasta and, you know, checked her out and did the little, I don't know if they do it in every state, but in Hawaii, they they kind of have this.
00;41;57;23 - 00;42;12;14
Unknown
It's kind of mandatory where they do this blood test and they, they check the children for like 35 different kinds of the genetic diseases. And I was like, she doesn't have any of these. And they're like, well, you know, you can I had to do it. And I was like, okay, fine. So they, you know, they did it and it was fine.
00;42;12;17 - 00;42;38;16
Unknown
But that was really all she that's all she got was she got looked at by the midwife. And then that one, pricked on her toe for the test. I wanted to ask, just like a logistical question about the birth certificate and free birthing in Hawaii. Did somebody. How did you get a birth certificate without having a midwife or a doctor present?
00;42;38;18 - 00;43;07;12
Unknown
So that was definitely a hilarious ordeal. Luckily I had this midwife. Her name is Tina. I'm not remembering her last name right now, but she's in Maui. She's been a midwife for 35 years. She has nine children, and she's she's a powerhouse like when she got into the into my bungalow. I just, I, I saw why witches were burned and why men are so afraid of women.
00;43;07;12 - 00;43;32;26
Unknown
Because a woman in her complete power is kind of terrifying. Like, she's amazing and she's super sweet and loving, but she just had, like, I know you probably met with midwives with this kind of power where they're just like, there's so just there and they're not afraid of anything and they're not afraid of death. Yeah. She was it's just amazing.
00;43;32;28 - 00;43;59;15
Unknown
Now I've till the last where where the birth certificate questions were going. Oh, yes. So she basically kind of I, I don't remember the details, but I think she kind of fudged for me. Like, I don't know if she said that. She was. She might have signed off and said that she was there, on the paperwork, but she did at least like provide a delayed like Apgar score and some of the other stuff that you're supposed to have.
00;43;59;18 - 00;44;27;13
Unknown
But I had to go to I think. Yeah, the details just aren't really in my mind anymore. But I did have to go to the the, like, birth certificate office. And there was this guy there named, I think his name was Art, and he was kind of like a Hawaiian Filipino gay man. He was hilarious because he just had, like, this crazy, super affected way of talking and and just like, he just was cracking me and my mother up.
00;44;27;16 - 00;44;48;09
Unknown
But it took two hours with him filling out paperwork. I don't even know what we were filling out, but you just you had to get a lot of paperwork, and, you know, even if, you know, even if you. I mean, if you give birth alone at home, you know, you're going to be able to work it out.
00;44;48;09 - 00;45;07;29
Unknown
But they just they have fears that people are going to bring other people's children and present them as their own and get welfare, like there's all these weird things in the system. So I would just say like, if you're not going to have a midwife actually at the birth, like at least have a few connections, and I think they know how it is.
00;45;07;29 - 00;45;38;14
Unknown
And I think Tina did that for me. And I think she just kind of like said that she was there or said that she was there right afterwards. It did what needed to be done and that it was legit. And and he knew who she was. So, you know, that's how in Hawaii everyone knows, you know. Yeah. And so how was your I remember when we spoke, a couple months ago, you mentioned something really beautiful about, after your friend had left, women in the community had heard about your story and, how they showed up for you.
00;45;38;15 - 00;45;41;20
Unknown
Well, you share some of that?
00;45;41;22 - 00;46;00;05
Unknown
Yes, definitely. So my friend Remi was there for a week after the birth, and then my mother wasn't coming until a week later, like after that. So. And she was going to stay for a few weeks. So I had a one week period, where I was going to be alone, where I didn't have somebody with me.
00;46;00;07 - 00;46;16;07
Unknown
And this is and she is a week old. And so I was really nervous, like, especially just, you know, again, like going through the milk coming in and everything, like, I was already emotional and just really raw. And so when Remy was leaving, I was like, what am I going to do without you? Because you've been cooking and cleaning and, you know, taking care of me.
00;46;16;09 - 00;46;33;16
Unknown
And he's like, it's going to be okay, you know, did and I was living in a a community, with about like 7 or 8 other people lived on the property. It was a yoga retreat center that had kind of been converted into housing. And so I had my own bungalow, but there were a number of people that lived on the property.
00;46;33;19 - 00;46;58;11
Unknown
And so they were there for me. And, and they, you know, would bring me food or come check in on me. But, but yeah, a bunch of women, just other most of them were recent mothers that had, you know, two year olds or one year olds, and they just heard through word of mouth that, you know, I'd, I'd come and I'd been couch surfing and I'd given free birth, you know, and so they would just kind of show up or like, call me and be like, hey, do you need anything?
00;46;58;11 - 00;47;05;15
Unknown
You want me to bring you some food? You need to take a nap. The shower.
00;47;05;17 - 00;47;28;18
Unknown
And women that I'd never met before coming and visiting almost every day. And it was just this amazing, beautiful experience. Again, I'm talking about being in that flow, which, you know, I'm sure that'll happen where it needs to. But in Hawaii, I think people are especially open, to that, you know, kind of giving like that, like, hey, you're here, your family.
00;47;28;21 - 00;47;59;09
Unknown
And that was, that was just invaluable. Like having these women to show up out of nowhere and be supportive like that. And I think, too, if you have your family and you have, you know, you have everything lined up, then if you don't have the need, then that's not going to happen. But when there's a need, you know, people are like, oh, you know, and they step up and but I think for me too, that was part of the benefit of going to Maui, was I was so far away from anybody's fear from, like, any of my family or any of my acquaintances or friends.
00;47;59;11 - 00;48;31;08
Unknown
But, you know, if I had been closer to family and I was going through, you know, the free birth, like I think either I would have been feeling their fear or they would have been around, like checking on me. You know, I feel like going so far away from everybody that I knew was safer for me in that way of not having their fears put on to the the birth experience totally, if so much more control over what you allow in your space, and easier to set boundaries across an ocean.
00;48;31;11 - 00;49;13;15
Unknown
Yeah, beautiful. Well, thank you so much. It's such a delight to hear your story again. And it's, you know, you have such a such a strong message of following your intuition and trusting yourself and your baby and such a beautiful story to match that. So it doesn't surprise me at all that you had such a wonderful birth. And you know, you really are an example of of a woman who was willing to do the work and get really quiet and follow the flow of nature, and you got to experience the truth of birth, you know, and have this normal physiological experience that you know, did take care of you and did put your vagina back
00;49;13;15 - 00;49;36;10
Unknown
together and did, you know, give you a healthy baby and, and all of the, the worries, you know, that that keep people from really exploring the real rhythms of nature and earth. You know, where you got to really do that. So thank you so much for sharing. And I definitely yeah, I love sharing the story. And because, you know, I was inspired by other women who've done this.
00;49;36;10 - 00;49;57;05
Unknown
And so that I got to do it in the way that I was intending to. You know, I hope that that does inspire other women to follow it if their if it's their path, because I think that's really for me, that's what it comes down to, is like, you have only you can know what's best for you. And so you shouldn't, you know, women shouldn't have a free, free birth just because we say, oh, it's better that way.
00;49;57;08 - 00;50;20;28
Unknown
It's like if you're going to be more comfortable in a birthing center or in a hospital, like you do that, like do what's going to work best for you, and only you can know that. And so it's, you know, it's hard sometimes because there's a sense of like people feel like you're judging them or there's a competition or, you know, there's all this weird stuff that comes into it and it's like, it's not about judgment or right or wrong or you're not good enough.
00;50;20;28 - 00;50;47;28
Unknown
And it's like, listen to your body, listen to yourself. Like, don't listen to your doctors necessarily. Don't listen to your parents. Don't listen to even, you know, your partner. Like, I think that's just the most important message for every woman is like, really? Practice listening to yourself. Yeah. And I think anyone that would feel truly confronted or threatened by your choices is someone who's not really listening to themself.
00;50;48;00 - 00;51;09;08
Unknown
You know, because when someone is grounded and secure with their own, yeah, with their own choices, then it's like, yeah, you do you, me do all do me. And there's lots of options and there's no one way, as we all know. I mean, even it makes me think about food, you know, because as a vegetarian, the, the, the way that some people get.
00;51;09;10 - 00;51;27;17
Unknown
But when I share that information with them, the they're, they can get so threatened, you know, and and the responses that that I'll get sometimes when I share that I, you know, for whatever reason don't eat meat. And I'm not like preaching about it. Some people, you know, will be like, oh, well, you know, I have to have my meat.
00;51;27;18 - 00;52;01;03
Unknown
And I did it. I was like, okay, cool. That's that's that. We weren't talking about that, you know, and I see it the same way with, yeah, in the birth world, it's like this over justification. You know, and I and I see it unfortunately a lot with, with, you know, people that birth in the hospitals of this over justification of why they did XYZ and you know but I but to be fair, I have, I have been to some home births where it's the same thing, you know, it's the, it's the other end to the same thing where the mother never really wanted it and the partner wanted it, or the parents wanted it.
00;52;01;03 - 00;52;22;18
Unknown
And, and you know, those births transfer they're, they're not going to be home births because of course she's not going to open up and relax until she's where she feels most safe. And, you know, I do I do envision a future, you know, where we are participating in a, you know, a society where it's all good. It's you do you and I do me.
00;52;22;18 - 00;52;35;03
Unknown
And it doesn't need to be this polarizing issue, you know, of, of of our personal choices. So wild.
00;52;35;06 - 00;52;53;27
Unknown
Yes. And finally. Well, thank you. We are at our time. I so appreciate you sharing and diving into the space with me. And so I'm sure everyone listening feels the same way. So thank you so much, Maya.
00;52;53;29 - 00;53;12;09
Unknown
Yes, thank you so much for getting this out there and sharing these stories, because I think they're really, really important. And thank you to our listeners for dealing with the awkward delay in our internet. And hopefully it wasn't too distracting. All right.
00;53;12;12 - 00;53;23;00
Unknown
That's it for today, everyone. Join us next week for another episode of the Free Birth Podcast. Thanks for joining us. And remember your Body, your choice. Lots of love.
