00;00;03;28 - 00;00;36;07
Unknown
Welcome to the Free Birth Society podcast, a supported space for people who are learning and exploring and celebrating their autonomous choices in childbirth. Together, while unpack truths, share personal stories and claim our ability to birth freely and intuitively. Here's your host, Emily Saldana.
00;00;36;09 - 00;01;06;26
Unknown
Today we have Melinda from Wyoming. After two midwife assisted births. Melinda free birth to her third in the privacy of her home, with her family surrounding her from her husband, missing her first birth to driving six hours round trip to her midwife's office with her second to free birthing her third. Melinda shares how liberating it was to experience her third pregnancy, being the one in charge.
00;01;06;28 - 00;01;33;17
Unknown
Hi, Melinda. Hi. Hi. Welcome to the Free Birth podcast. I'm happy to have you here. Thank you for taking the time. I'm really excited to share my stories with you. Why don't you go ahead and just give a little quick introduction about your your mothering history? Okay. I have currently have three children. My oldest is four. My next, child is a son and he will be three next month.
00;01;33;17 - 00;02;00;05
Unknown
And then an 18 month old. And I'm pregnant with our fourth. And, I've always been interested in home birth. I grew up in a church, really, that had a lot of moms who did home birth, midwife assisted births, so it was all very normal that it just grew. I grew up with that as being a normal option, like a an option that was considered to be safe, to be something that normal women did.
00;02;00;05 - 00;02;16;17
Unknown
It wasn't like seen as really far out there or weird. So I've always had that as part of my background. And actually, when I met my husband, I pretty much told him, if this if we're going to be together, you have to know I'm not having my babies in the hospital unless there's a major emergency. I'm just, you know, I'm.
00;02;16;20 - 00;02;38;04
Unknown
I want to have my babies at home and so he knew from the very get go that that's what he was getting when he. When he married me. So with my first two babies, I had midwife assisted birth. My first midwife with my daughter was an amazing midwife. She was a direct entry midwife, which means she was not licensed by the state that we lived in.
00;02;38;06 - 00;03;10;10
Unknown
However, she had been practicing for over 20 years and she was willing to work with moms who a lot of doctors and some midwives would consider high risk, either going past their due dates or multiples or breech. And so she was really supportive of me. She was very hands off in a lot of ways, and I think she is kind of even though I wasn't thinking free birth at the time, she is really helped me to connect more with myself, with my baby and kind of just laid the groundwork where where it really did come around.
00;03;10;10 - 00;03;29;25
Unknown
Eventually, when I did decide to free birth later on. So she was she was a great midwife and she was out in California and she was in California, and she was I mean, she was the classic case of you go to your prenatal, they last like two hours. She's this grandmotherly woman. And I mean, she literally felt like part of my family.
00;03;29;27 - 00;03;51;06
Unknown
By the time I went into labor with my daughter. And, she was I didn't realize this at the time, too, but she was kind of doula and midwife for me. She was very she wasn't that just there to make sure, like, medical stuff. She was. I mean, she would she was rubbing my back. She was right there with me in the tub while I was or next to the tub, rather while I was laboring.
00;03;51;13 - 00;04;13;09
Unknown
She was very hands on, and I didn't realize at the time that's very abnormal for midwives. But she was. I think she did a lot, really, to make my first birth experience to be a good experience overall, especially because my husband did miss that birth. He was out of town for work. So, you know, I know, I know, gosh, so she was she was amazing.
00;04;13;09 - 00;04;35;21
Unknown
She really was. And, that's my first baby. She was born almost two weeks, 13 days past her due date. So that she's kind of the baby to where I realized I tend to go late. Or what was your husband doing out of town two weeks past, you know? Well, see, this was actually partly my fault. I got to this mindspace where it's like I'm going to be the first woman pregnant forever.
00;04;35;23 - 00;04;54;03
Unknown
So when an emergency came up with work, I just was like, just go. You're going to be gone, like 24 hours. I'm not having this baby, like, ever. Gosh. And so both of us being first time parents and a bit not really thinking that went through, he did he left he left on his trip. And it was just you and the midwife?
00;04;54;06 - 00;05;10;08
Unknown
No. My mom, my mom and one of my sisters were. I was already planning to have them there anyways. And so they were. They were also there. Oh, that's. And then also as a whole family, your whole. Yeah. All your women in your family. Yeah. So then my husband arrived about an hour after she was born. And we waited.
00;05;10;11 - 00;05;25;24
Unknown
I waited until he got there and find out if it was a boy or girl, because we did not had it, though. So he still got to be kind of involved, you know, with that and checking to see if it was a girl. And I was so shocked because I was convinced I was convinced I was pregnant with a boy.
00;05;25;26 - 00;05;51;14
Unknown
That when he said, oh, it's a girl, I was like, are you sure? He's like, you know, I'm sure. So. So that was my first birth experience. And, it was it was really good for them. For the most part. I think the hardest part really was I did experience, the, fetal ejection reflex with her, and it was so much more powerful and overwhelming than what I expected that it kind of freaked me out.
00;05;51;16 - 00;06;11;04
Unknown
So I think that was the the most interesting part of her labor. That and realizing that labor is really a mind game more than it is physical pain or physical things going on. Because to me the hardest part was, I don't know if I could do this for another, you know, ten hours. And it was just really hard.
00;06;11;05 - 00;06;30;28
Unknown
Get it keeping myself here like this moment, this contraction. And so I just I didn't I expected that, I expected the hard part, me, the physical part. And it wasn't for me. It was it was a mind game. Just to stay here, stay present and not be like, I can't I can't keep doing this, like forever or for, you know, a very long time.
00;06;30;28 - 00;06;57;27
Unknown
So that was, that was kind of my first birth experience. And then actually my labor wasn't that long. It was only seven hours. So it really wasn't that bad. In hindsight, at the time, it was overwhelming. Sure. Some way. But some of my second we lived in Nebraska and I had a very hard time finding a midwife, because Nebraska is one of the states that does not allow midwives to legally attend home births at all.
00;06;58;00 - 00;07;25;10
Unknown
And so it was really, really hard even finding a midwife who would talk to me. And, as far as I know, there are not and there really are not that many underground midwives in Nebraska. So I did talk to a couple of midwives in adjoining states who would come into Nebraska to attend women, but still it was it was kind of hard finding someone who I felt comfortable with.
00;07;25;12 - 00;07;44;04
Unknown
We finally did find a woman who was who lived in an adjoining state, and she was licensed in her state, but not, of course, not licensed in Nebraska. And she was willing to work with me. She, I was totally not ready to consider free birth at this point. So we were driving three hours one way for my prenatal visit.
00;07;44;04 - 00;08;04;19
Unknown
Wow. And this is this is kind of what got me started thinking about really thinking about free birth, because I remember one time driving home from a prenatal and looking at my husband and saying, why are we doing this? I go to these prenatal and I mean, I, I declined most testing anyways. I don't do the glucose monitoring, I don't do ultrasounds.
00;08;04;21 - 00;08;24;12
Unknown
And so everything my midwife did are things I can do for myself. I could I could weigh myself, I can do bundle height. I can check the baby's heart rate with a fetus scope. I can do all these things. So we're driving three hours one way for like, nothing. I mean, I didn't see the value and I really didn't.
00;08;24;15 - 00;08;44;09
Unknown
And and like, I really did not click with this midwife as well as I do with my first one. She was always a birth professional. She was not. She did not. It was it was just more of a, midwife client relationship as opposed to her really becoming part of our, I don't know, family, for lack of a better word.
00;08;44;09 - 00;09;07;14
Unknown
Like my first midwife. I just really felt very personable. And she she never did my second midwife and, there were several things. She also there were several warning signs, I guess you could say throughout my pregnancy with prenatal that she was probably not a really good choice for me because she would keep saying things, she would keep threatening to drop me basically if certain things happened.
00;09;07;14 - 00;09;29;21
Unknown
And like if my. I remember when she tested my hemoglobin whenever that was, and my hemoglobin was fine, but she would say, but if it gets to this level, I have to drop you. And I just it added so much stress to me because at the time I really didn't understand and she didn't even help me, like come up with ways to keep my hemoglobin levels in a good range.
00;09;29;23 - 00;09;51;11
Unknown
It just felt like it was completely out of my control. And if this happens, like I have no control over and she's going to drop me as a client. And so it just it added a level of stress that was really not helpful. And then I had some issues too, with being lightheaded. And she just, wanted to like, every time I came toward that issue, I'm having this problem.
00;09;51;18 - 00;10;17;03
Unknown
She wanted to diagnose me with gestational diabetes, and she never really asked questions or like that was her first go to. And so she finally did. I finally diagnosed with gestational diabetes. It didn't help with the issues I was having. And so with the lightheadedness and just feeling off, and my sister is actually the one who suggested to me, maybe you should consider that your iron is iron levels are not where they need to be.
00;10;17;03 - 00;10;37;04
Unknown
And so my sister's the one who helped me figure out what was actually going on and what I needed to do to fix the situation. So there were just like things along the way that really, I think I should have listened to and probably not gone through with it with her actually having her come to my to my labor.
00;10;37;04 - 00;10;56;15
Unknown
So anyways, when I did go into labor, finally, and this time I went into labor two days past my due date, I really shocked. I was convinced I wasn't a labor because I expected to go two weeks past and then I don't know. He decided to come closer to my due date, but I, his labor was about seven hours to.
00;10;56;15 - 00;11;14;01
Unknown
And it was. This labor was so much better. My husband was there. It was, I often think, and I even told people like, if all of my labors could be like this one, I would have lots and lots of babies, because it was I don't I do not remember the pain from this labor. I seriously do not remember it.
00;11;14;03 - 00;11;34;07
Unknown
It was such an intimate experience, just with my husband being there and just with him being like he was all I needed. Like in hindsight, like it had just been him and me. It probably would have been the best experience ever. And he he was truly he was truly amazing. He kind of surprised me, actually, since he missed our daughter's birth.
00;11;34;09 - 00;11;52;07
Unknown
You know, this was still like our first labor together. I had no idea how he was going to do, but he was absolutely amazing anyway. So he was he was awesome. And we I put off calling my midwife for the longest time because I was half hoping the baby would come fast enough that she would miss it, because I still wasn't 100%.
00;11;52;10 - 00;12;09;28
Unknown
You know, I didn't really like her. But we so we waited and waited. Waited until we thought it was far enough along that she could drive three hours and it would be fine, but she drove three hours, and I still had not had my son. And the first thing she said to me when she walked in the door was, something's wrong.
00;12;09;28 - 00;12;35;16
Unknown
He should have been born by now. So that immediately changed the tone in the room. It changed how I was feeling, of course. And I mean, from that point on, it was just it was just more stressful, like there was I was not stressed prior to her arriving, so. Well, then also, I had told her ahead of time, I don't want any cervical checks or I will ask you if I decide I want one, but I don't think I don't want one.
00;12;35;18 - 00;12;52;19
Unknown
Just to let you know. And so but she immediately started pressuring me. She did listen to my son's heart rate. There was nothing wrong with his heart rate. So like when she had told me something's wrong, I mean, it was nothing. She didn't tell me. There's any reason to think something's wrong other than the fact the baby's not born and his heart rate was fine, and so I.
00;12;52;19 - 00;13;10;13
Unknown
She, listened to his heart rate. His heart rate. Fine. She started pressuring me to let her do a cervical exam to see how far dilated I was. I declined it, but she kept pressuring me until I finally agreed. So she did the exam. I forgotten how far dilated was, but she felt a bulging bag of water. So then she was pressuring me.
00;13;10;16 - 00;13;29;10
Unknown
Well, let me break your water. And I declined that. But she kept pressuring, kept party, and kept pressuring until, I finally agreed to that as well. And so she was also saying all these emotionally manipulative things like, let me help you. Don't you want me to help you? And my thought was, well, yes, I want you to help me, but not the way you're suggesting.
00;13;29;10 - 00;13;54;24
Unknown
Like I don't I don't want you breaking my waters. I didn't want the cervical check. Like she was offering things I did not want. And she should have known I didn't want because I had told her that in our prenatal. But anyways, I finally agreed to let her to break my waters. And my son was born quite quickly after that within 10 or 15 minutes, and he was born with the cord around his neck two, possibly three times, and she unwrapped it and gave him to me.
00;13;54;26 - 00;14;13;15
Unknown
And then I came to find out, though, that apparently she had another mom in labor. And so she left. Within 15 minutes of my son being born, she was only at our apartment, like from the time she arrived and told me something's wrong. You should have been here by now. To all the cervical checks and breaking by water, my son being born and her kind of checking on him a little bit.
00;14;13;18 - 00;14;40;14
Unknown
She was only there like an hour, hour, 50 minutes. And then she was gone. Wow. And so that was, to me, a very negative experience. So, yeah, I think she was part of the biggest reason or so she was one of the reasons that really got me thinking about free birth for the next time, because I felt, I felt like I had trusted her to some extent through all the prenatal that we had.
00;14;40;14 - 00;14;59;10
Unknown
But I told her what I wanted, and in hindsight, I can see maybe I shouldn't have trusted her as much, but I did at the time, and then I felt like she really did not do what was in my best interest, or even in the best interest of my baby, by pressuring me, by breaking by water. And like the question I never asked her, but the question was always my mind.
00;14;59;10 - 00;15;16;29
Unknown
Did she rush me so that she could be this other mom? And well, that's I mean, that's not evidence based at all. That's not that's not what I paid for. I paid her, I like I wanted her there for me and for my son. And anyways wow. So that was not, that was not at all a really good experience.
00;15;16;29 - 00;15;42;13
Unknown
I'm curious did you, did you ever share any of this with her. Did you ever debrief afterwards? I did not I think I think I probably could now, but it took me a very long time to. Well, I mean, it's only been almost three years, but it took me it took me a while to really work through why I felt,
00;15;42;15 - 00;15;58;17
Unknown
Oh, I can't even I don't even know how to describe it, why I felt like why I would want to cry when I would talk about his birth, or think about my son's birth, because, I mean, I've heard so many traumatic birth stories. I know this does this doesn't really fit in the scheme of other women's traumatic birth stories.
00;15;58;17 - 00;16;15;28
Unknown
So I kept I kept just I don't know, it just didn't feel like it should have been as big a deal to me as it was. And then trying to explain to my husband to why it was affecting me so emotionally was hard as well, because he didn't he didn't quite. He didn't quite get it. Like I would try to explain to him.
00;16;16;01 - 00;16;44;27
Unknown
It took me a while to be able to explain to him why I felt emotionally manipulated, and just like she had not with her. Let me help you. You don't want me to help you questions and then her not respecting when I declined care and when it took me a while. But yeah, you created a relationship with her that ultimately she betrayed your trust and betrayed your trust around the autonomy of your own body that you had already verbalized to her that you expected.
00;16;44;27 - 00;17;17;04
Unknown
And that should be a part of midwifery care. So yeah, maybe it's not you know, the most traumatic birth story I've ever heard, but any any sort of violation against your body in such a vulnerable time, you know, that's very real. And I'm glad you were able to find the words eventually, because, you know, I do. I do see so many women struggle with this dual reality where parts of their labor can be wonderful, and other parts of it can be really hurtful and are painful, and that hold those together.
00;17;17;06 - 00;17;47;23
Unknown
It seems like it's yeah, it's very hard for partners to understand that or for, you know, people's families and. Right. And I hear that so yeah. Well I really do like to share my story because that story in particular now, because I have I've found that a lot of women assume that when you're getting a midwife, that you're getting someone who cares about you as an individual and your baby, I was and they don't expect there to be like birth trauma or birth or midwives disrespecting their clients or things like that.
00;17;47;26 - 00;18;10;04
Unknown
And I just I have not found that to be the case. Like, I mean, I had that negative experience. I've heard so many stories from other moms too, or midwives have just not not looked out for the best interest of their clients. And so you can have you can have an awesome midwife, you can have an awesome OB, you can have a horrible midwife, you can have a horrible it will be like it's it's not it's not relegated to just, you know, OB are bad, midwives are good.
00;18;10;04 - 00;18;16;14
Unknown
It's not that 100%. Absolutely. So yeah. Absolutely. So.
00;18;16;17 - 00;18;38;08
Unknown
So then why don't the three before you hop into your your free birth. I was curious with your third I mean, I understand emotionally how then after that experience, you know, you would be moved towards wanting to explore it on your own. So is there anything else you know that you would want to share about how you found yourself in this third pregnancy?
00;18;38;09 - 00;18;42;24
Unknown
Being called to do it unassisted?
00;18;42;26 - 00;19;04;13
Unknown
Well, I think a lot of it had to do with, since I did grow up thinking home birth and midwives were normal and I and my sister at one of my sisters actually a bit interested in midwifery when we were in our teens, and she ultimately didn't choose that path. But like I had been educated about the safety of home birth, about how to handle a lot of things at home and different things.
00;19;04;13 - 00;19;36;05
Unknown
So I had a lot of just knowledge going into it about how to handle a pregnancy, or even possible complications in birth that I wasn't super scared about that. Plus, I did have two births now, but were I mean pregnancies and labors that for the most part were really low risk. Like I had no problem with postpartum. And so I think that all played into me just thinking you know, I could do this like, I don't I don't need someone else to make sure I'm okay or to, you know, hold my hand through this.
00;19;36;07 - 00;19;56;22
Unknown
And then, of course, it really helped my husband was made 100% supportive. He never he never looked at me funny. He never questioned me. It was just I think we both just kind of evolved through our first two pregnancies and births to when we like. It was just a joint decision and he was 100% completely supportive. And so if he hadn't, then I would.
00;19;56;23 - 00;20;16;12
Unknown
I'm sure I would have been second guessing myself. And okay, well, should we do that or should we not? Like, how am I going to how this really going to work? But his support, I think was was probably pivotal in that, in that too. In just in me never like never really like once we decided it was just it was just it just felt right.
00;20;16;17 - 00;20;37;17
Unknown
Like that's kind of weird to say, but it was just it was just right. It's not weird at all. I don't know how else to explain it. Yeah, I totally understand. That's I mean, I, I'm still working on cooking up my first baby, but I have the same, the same, you know, dynamic with my partner. And it's, you know, I've also spoken to women who don't have that dynamic with their partner.
00;20;37;17 - 00;21;04;07
Unknown
And it's it's exactly like you said. You'd be so much more prone to second guess yourself. And, you know, when you have a partner who just totally supports your maternal wisdom and, and the yeah, you know, the knowledge and choices behind why you make the choices you'll make for your body and your baby. You get to really experience the deep levels of, you know, victory that that you've clearly gotten to experience.
00;21;04;09 - 00;21;21;05
Unknown
Yeah, it helps to know that I have a mom and a sister who are very supportive. Yes. Who who just like, I think if I have questions or whatever and I don't know, an answer, I could call and say, hey, what do you think about this? Or where where do you think I could find some answers or.
00;21;21;05 - 00;21;38;04
Unknown
I don't know, they're just they're just very supportive. And so I think having those three people my husband, my mom, my sister, who are 100% on board just really helps me, especially when I do get negative comments from people. I can always just say, you know, call them and say, you know, someone said something to me and they'll be like, it's okay.
00;21;38;05 - 00;22;02;05
Unknown
You know, they just, you know, this is your baby, this is your body. This is you've been educated decision. And they can always just get me back into a good, I don't know, head space for knowing. Yes, this is an informed decision that I've made to free birth. This is a good decision for me, for my baby. And so anyways, yeah, I mean, the bottom line is these choices are completely paradigm rocking.
00;22;02;05 - 00;22;27;13
Unknown
Like this is this, you know, you living in in choices around free birth and you know, the community that you and I are in is completely shattering to the brainwashing that's been bestowed upon our society for the last hundred years. So it's so, so, so beautiful that you have the support you deserve, you know, because this is it's very confronting for a lot of people.
00;22;27;13 - 00;22;49;12
Unknown
The choices that that we make around this. So I'm I'm really happy you have that support. Yeah. Well it would be a lot harder if I didn't because I don't know if it's just the hormones of pregnancy or whatever, but especially now that I'm close to my due date with our fourth. It's just if someone says something that insinuates this is not a good decision, it really like I have a hard time shaking that off.
00;22;49;13 - 00;23;13;02
Unknown
It just gets taken. It's hard for me not to take on someone else's fear and negativity. So I need all these. I need these positive people in my life to just help me remember that this this is not my fear. Like this. I don't need to take on someone else's fear of negativity. And so yeah, I honestly, if I didn't have that support, I don't know that I if I would be free birth because I'm not sure I would be.
00;23;13;05 - 00;23;42;07
Unknown
I honestly don't know if I'd be strong enough to, to to keep myself in a positive, space. I don't know, I don't yes. Yeah. Pretty much totally. And you know, it does speak to that to that really heightened, you know, almost like psychic sensitivity that women have when they're close to delivering. And, you know, it's very normal and common for women at that stage to kind of shut down, like, you know, get off social media, stop watching TV, stop talking to strangers.
00;23;42;07 - 00;24;08;03
Unknown
And really, pretty much yeah. Next up, because it is like you, you do really get this psychic, spiritual, you know, air about you that I'm glad you mentioned that because it is such an important time to surround yourself with love and light. Yeah, well it is. I am getting to the point where, honestly, I really wish I could just hold up.
00;24;08;03 - 00;24;25;03
Unknown
I have, I have a I have a month until my due date, although I do tend to go late, but I kind of wish I could just hold up and really not see people because I'm starting to get people questioning I. When people find out your home birth thing and then if they find out your free birth, it's like a magnet for people's horror stories.
00;24;25;06 - 00;24;45;29
Unknown
And I'm just like, I don't really want to know your horror story right now. So it does happen. That helpful? Do you have a good trick for setting boundaries? Not really, I not really. I probably know some better ones other than other than my husband did. Tell me you need to stop opening conversations about birth because it just stressed.
00;24;45;29 - 00;25;03;18
Unknown
Like when I'm not pregnant or early in pregnancy, I can talk to people and explain my decisions or why I make things, but as I close to my due date, I just get I. I am more likely to take on someone else's negative energy or fear. I guess the closer I get to my own due date, it's so he just told me.
00;25;03;18 - 00;25;24;05
Unknown
You just need to, you know, now's not the time to be talking to people and trying to help them see, right. You know why free birth or home birth is a safe option. So with my free birth, we, got. Let's see, we got pregnant. So we knew. We knew from the beginning that we were planning a free birth.
00;25;24;05 - 00;25;50;12
Unknown
And it ended up being a really good decision, because by this time, we were living in yet another state in Wyoming, which actually actually has there's very few midwives in Wyoming, and they're kind of clustered around a couple of the bigger cities, Cheyenne and Casper. Not at all close to where we are. And so there are there are no midwives who serve my area, and I would have to drive to them in labor, like an hour and a half, two hours or more to.
00;25;50;12 - 00;26;14;03
Unknown
And that, I mean, that's just not getting in a car. And active labor has never been on my list of things I want to do. So that was that was one thing. And then also I knew I another reason was important to me to free birth is because with my first daughter going 13 days past her due date, I knew it was at least somewhat likely I would go late with my third.
00;26;14;03 - 00;26;32;18
Unknown
And in Wyoming, midwives are not allowed to attend women past 42 weeks. And so I knew I didn't want the stress of if I get to 40 weeks and 41 weeks and then being pressured to, I don't know, even try natural induction methods, which I am not in favor of. Like that's not something I would choose to do.
00;26;32;24 - 00;26;47;24
Unknown
So I didn't, I didn't, I knew I didn't want that, so we decided it was just it was all it all worked out really well that we had decided to free birth ahead of time. And then coming to Wyoming, it was like, well, I'm glad we made that decision because it would be really hard to find a good midwife here where we are now.
00;26;47;27 - 00;27;08;28
Unknown
And so my pregnancy with her was it was the best pregnancy out of my three that I'd had so far, because I didn't have any midwives stressing me out or telling me this, you know, and I and I was, I mean, I was this pregnancy to my third one, I did do my own prenatal. It was so much fun.
00;27;08;28 - 00;27;33;19
Unknown
Like the first month I would do my prenatal and I would check bundle height and weigh myself and listen for the baby's heartbeat and do all these things. I got myself a blood pressure cuff. I was monitoring blood sugar, so I was monitoring a lot of things that my midwives would have been monitoring if I'd been seeing one, but it was just it was so freeing not to have someone else.
00;27;33;22 - 00;27;54;19
Unknown
Just telling me it was just freeing, doing it all for myself, I guess. And then after my second midwife, my midwife with my son had just she had her own fears with, with birth and labor that she had put on me. Just not having anyone putting those fears for me was just so freeing. It was it was a very good pregnancy.
00;27;54;21 - 00;28;21;14
Unknown
I really didn't have any problems in her pregnancy. It was it was a really smooth pregnancy. And she did. We did end up going she did go past for two weeks. And with it she was 17 days past her due date. Wow. So I'm very glad again that I avoided the stress of having a midwife trying to, I don't know, I don't know what a midwife would have done if she would have been pressuring me or dropping me or whatever as a client, but I'm glad I did have to deal with that.
00;28;21;17 - 00;28;41;15
Unknown
And then I was able to be completely just wait for my baby to decide when she wanted to come. And so when I did go, I had so much, pre labor with her prodromal labor. I had I spent 12 hours in labor on my due date that I was convinced was the real thing, only for it completely died down after 12 hours.
00;28;41;15 - 00;28;57;10
Unknown
So for the last 17 days of my pregnancy, anytime anything would start, I'd be like, oh, this isn't it. I mean, there's no way I would think of that. Like the same place I did with my daughter, who was 13 days past. I'm going to be the first woman pregnant forever. Like, this is I'm going to set like, this is it.
00;28;57;10 - 00;29;17;04
Unknown
I've never having this baby. And so when I did finally go into labor, I think there was a lot of just denial that, like, this could actually really be it because it, you know, it was I was so I was so many days past, I'd had so much pre labor that it was just. Yeah. Anyways, I think my husband and my mom, my mom was here for this one too.
00;29;17;04 - 00;29;41;26
Unknown
They all know I'm in labor before I do because I always just keep saying this isn't it? I'm sure they're going to stop that. But anyways, that one, it finally kept going and this labor was my longest one and my hardest one. She was my daughter was, posterior and just the pain was really bad. It was the worst back labor ever.
00;29;41;26 - 00;30;08;07
Unknown
It was really very unpleasant, to say the least. And her labor was ten hours, which felt really long to me because my since my first two had been seven hours. But she she did finally make her parents the one thing though, that I think is really interesting about this, about her story, is let's see around. I guess I was about five hours into labor when I had actually been lying down for like 30 minutes.
00;30;08;07 - 00;30;34;13
Unknown
With labor, I just kind of plateaued. And again, I was thinking, this is probably we're probably just like this isn't really it. We're gonna have to do this again some other day. And then they started that. My contractor started back up. I got in the shower, and I was going to try to check myself for dilation. And when I reached down to to try to check myself, I felt something really weird and really odd that I had no idea what it was.
00;30;34;15 - 00;30;56;23
Unknown
And I called my mom in to come look, and she was like, yeah, I don't know what this is either. It's to me, it felt like there was something coming out of my vagina that my first thought was, is this a prolapse of some kind? And I, I didn't it surprises me that I didn't panic. I always thought oh I'm going to panic if something goes wrong in labor.
00;30;56;25 - 00;31;19;03
Unknown
But it's almost like I suddenly became very clear headed. And I knew that and I knew what I needed to do. Like it wasn't I wasn't freaking out and I wasn't like it was just it was kind of surreal that I just handled it very calmly. And I had no idea what's going on. My mom didn't was like, yeah, I'm not sure what this is.
00;31;19;05 - 00;31;39;24
Unknown
And so I looked at my husband. I said, I think we need to go in to the hospital and have this checked out because I don't know what this is. And if it's a prolapse, I don't know if I can. I don't know how that will affect giving birth gradually. And so we did pack up. We went into the hospital and it was on the weekend.
00;31;39;24 - 00;31;59;14
Unknown
So we had to go in a small town hospital. We went into the emergency room and it was it was kind of funny actually. Some of these nurses, I go in and I'm still walking and talking in between contractions. I don't know if they completely took me seriously that I was in labor, but, we go in and I tell them whatever.
00;31;59;14 - 00;32;17;04
Unknown
There is one point that I needed to use the bathroom, and she and I knew I just needed I just, you know, I needed to pee. I went in there and I had nurses knocking on the door, wanting to make sure that I wasn't actually giving, you know, having the baby in there by myself. I just like that like it was so different from my home birth, where people kind of leave me alone.
00;32;17;06 - 00;32;39;11
Unknown
I just couldn't even go to the bathroom by myself. But someone knocking on the door being like, you know what's going on in there? Like, I'm just using the bathroom. And so anyways, we finally got checked in. We get back into the into where the, the OB or the hospital or the maternity part of the hospital is and they start to pick me up two monitors and doing a cervical check.
00;32;39;19 - 00;32;56;27
Unknown
And it was so funny. This nurse too, she, she's like, let me just tuck you in, see how dilated she checks me. She's like, yep, you're in labor. And I'm like, yes, I know, I know, I'm a believer. And so she, she did that and she asked me, did you know that there's something unusual going on down here?
00;32;56;29 - 00;33;12;23
Unknown
And I told her, yes. I mean, that's why we came in. We wanted to have we hadn't really told anyone. Oh, we're planning, we're planning a free birth or. Oh, like, we were just answering literally just the questions that were asked of us, and we just told them that we had just moved to town, which is actually true.
00;33;12;29 - 00;33;30;13
Unknown
We'd only been there about a month and a half, and I didn't have my, you know, prenatal, any prenatal records with me. I don't even think I remember to take the ones that I had written down. And so we just kind of answer their questions and we're volunteering tons of extra information, but they hook me up to the to the electronic fetal monitor.
00;33;30;15 - 00;33;48;20
Unknown
And I, of course, immediately heard my baby's heartbeat and I knew it was well within the, you know, it was normal, like she wasn't in distress. And so that I immediately just relaxed was like, okay, this is I mean, at least the baby's fine. Like everything's good there. And so it took a little while for the doctor to come in.
00;33;48;20 - 00;34;11;29
Unknown
But, I mean, during that time, the nurse is taking my, his, my history and mine. They eventually do figure out that I'm like past 42 weeks because, you know, they are asking when my last period was or, you know, date of conception or something like that. And I was really surprised. I thought they would kind of be like a little weirded out that I was this far past my due date, but no one said anything to me about it.
00;34;11;29 - 00;34;30;07
Unknown
It was just like, oh, well, you're 42 weeks then, and I'm just like, yeah, I'm 42 weeks now. And so they were they were nice about that. But then I noticed, though, too, that my husband and I kept having to ask them questions about what they were doing to me because they just come over and one nurse just starts prepping me for an IV, and I'm like, well, what are you doing?
00;34;30;09 - 00;34;45;09
Unknown
And she's like, I'm. I mean, I'm going to get an IV, her pain meds. And I was like, I don't want pain meds. I, you know, I'm not interested in that. And so she was like, oh. And then a little bit later I look over at, she's prepping something else. I'm like, what are you doing? And she's like, oh, I'm getting the pitocin ready.
00;34;45;09 - 00;35;04;20
Unknown
And I'm like, Towson. And she's like, yes, it's for after the baby's born. And I'm just like, no, I don't want that. And so it was just it felt like a lot of work because like, they were not asking any questions like, oh, do you want some, do you want an epidural or oh, do you want this or do you want that?
00;35;04;20 - 00;35;19;07
Unknown
It was just it's like we had to keep an eye. There were like three nurses in my room. We had to keep an eye on everybody and be asking them, what are you doing? And I didn't want that declining all these things. And so it was kind of it was just it felt like a lot. Fortunately, my husband was there and he helped with that.
00;35;19;07 - 00;35;37;18
Unknown
Keeping an eye on everybody. Can I ask, can I ask a couple quick questions? Yes. So do you by any chance, remember how dilated you were when they did that check? I do not. When the OB did come in, he felt the bag of water bulging. So I was I mean, I was significantly dilated enough that my water was bulging.
00;35;37;24 - 00;36;02;03
Unknown
And how did you notice your experience in the hospital affect your labor versus at home? It kind of I think it kind of slowed down when we were in the hospital. It I did have some pretty good contractions, but they were not they were not as, they were not as close to good, I don't think. I didn't feel like it was really active labor, so to speak.
00;36;02;03 - 00;36;18;05
Unknown
It didn't feel like that to me. I think it really slowed down. And of course, at this point, two, you're in the room with like I labor mostly in dark. And I tend to like not wear anything at home when I'm in labor. So I'm, you know, I'm wearing a hospital gown. There's lots of people in my room now and the lights are on.
00;36;18;05 - 00;36;41;18
Unknown
And so I think all of that really it just it slowed down. It didn't stop completely but it slowed down. So okay. So then what did the what did the little question wind up being. Yeah. So that when the OB came in he checked. He checked dilation. The bag of water. And he told me that this whatever this was, it was just a swell like one edge of my perineum had swollen.
00;36;41;21 - 00;37;00;06
Unknown
And so he did not seem concerned about it at all, which in hindsight, I'm kind of like, how did we not know that? It was just a swollen like, I'm not sure how we totally missed that, but we did for whatever reason. And, he told us that we had told him, you know, well, we just want this checked out.
00;37;00;08 - 00;37;17;21
Unknown
And if this is not an emergency, we want to go home to have this baby at home. And the the OB was very respectful. He said, well, but, you know, I have to tell you that I think it's safer to have a baby in the hospital, but if you guys want to go home, you can sign out AMA Against Medical Advice.
00;37;17;21 - 00;37;35;07
Unknown
And, you know, that's that's fine. And so he gave us I mean, he told us that, but he gave us no trouble. He just we told him, okay, once I knew it was just a swollen perineum. It didn't seem to like the OB, didn't seem to think it was a problem at all. And we just we signed out against medical advice and went home.
00;37;35;09 - 00;37;54;14
Unknown
And then. Let's see, she was born 3 or 4 hours later. But once I got home from the hospital, they were really picked up and it was still really hard. In fact, you know, it's a good thing I wasn't at the hospital because the back labor was so bad that I probably would have. I probably would have done the epidural.
00;37;54;16 - 00;38;14;25
Unknown
It was it was pretty bad. But then she was finally born. But 3 or 4 hours later now I can't remember exactly. And in our tub here at home and it was just, it was so nice, just me and my husband. My mom came in when my water broke with her. There was meconium in the water.
00;38;14;27 - 00;38;31;18
Unknown
And then my water broke. I saw the meconium and I noticed that, which is why I actually sent my husband to go get my mom just so that she could be there in case we needed some help with the baby. After the baby was born and he walked from our bedroom to the kitchen, and by the time he come back, her head had already been born.
00;38;31;18 - 00;39;00;16
Unknown
I mean, my wife. And she was like, you know, she was like, you know, here I am. And so she was, it was another contraction or two before her body came out. And then she just she came out and she was my she's my first baby who took it, took her a little while to start breathing. I kept rubbing her back and talking to her and just holding her and looking at her and different things, and, she finally she would kind of take a breath and then take a little bit of a noise and then, you know, a long time to me.
00;39;00;16 - 00;39;21;19
Unknown
Another breath. But she was she finally started breathing, started picking up, and she was it was I mean, she was perfect. It was like it was a very good birth experience. And I think that's another reason the two I'm really glad I was not in the hospital because especially with meconium being present when my water broke, I know that probably would have, probably not.
00;39;21;19 - 00;39;40;21
Unknown
You know, might have panicked a nurse or doctor. Well, and I'll tell you exactly what would have happened is they would have they would have cut the cord at delivery and she would have been taken to the warmer, and she would have had, you know, deep suctioning. And she would have had, you know, some level of resuscitation, whether it was needed or not.
00;39;40;21 - 00;39;55;29
Unknown
And you wouldn't have had her back, you know, at the minimum, what, five minutes or something. But it could I was 20 minutes, I was yeah, I was just telling my husband this, like we were talking about this yesterday and I was like, if we'd been at the hospital, we would not have been the first people touching our baby.
00;39;55;29 - 00;40;20;25
Unknown
No way. It would have been. Yeah. And she would have, you know, been denied her blood, you know, the placental blood. And yeah, she would have had a lot of pretty aggressive, intervention, you know, that that wound up being totally unnecessary. So did you do any sort of suctioning at all or or just. We did. We had a bulb syringe and my mom did do a little bit of that.
00;40;20;25 - 00;40;44;08
Unknown
I now know that's not really the best way to handle that, but I should have just used my mouth. To use the suction suction. My daughter's mouth and nose. And that's what I would do in the future if I were to have something similar happen. But at the time that was what I knew to do. So we, we did have a bulb syringe and yeah, I just kept an eye on her and I mean, she was breathing well before a cord stopped pulsing.
00;40;44;08 - 00;41;01;24
Unknown
So it wasn't it really wasn't that big of a deal, which is kind of why I like showing that, because, I mean, that's one of the things that I have, you know, moms around me freak out about with meconium or your baby's board and is blue, which my daughter was not pink when she was born. She was blue.
00;41;01;26 - 00;41;19;05
Unknown
And this is people think this is really freaky. And yet I'm so glad I was at home because as you said, you know, I was the one holding her. I was the one rubbing her back. She was getting she was still connected to the placenta and the core. She was getting oxygen. And I'm just glad that this it was handled.
00;41;19;07 - 00;41;36;20
Unknown
We were able to handle it this way instead of, as you described, with the suctioning and the I mean, whatever else, they would have done it. So it really I'm just glad I was home considering the meconium. And then she was born. It took a few minutes to start breathing, so I'm glad we're here for that and not in the hospital.
00;41;36;27 - 00;41;55;22
Unknown
And you know, it speaks, you know, towards the free birth as well. Because if you had been with like an out here in California, if you had been with a regulated midwife, in California, you know, and there had been time, you very likely would have transferred because of meconium. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was it was good. I'm glad.
00;41;55;22 - 00;42;12;22
Unknown
I'm glad we were here. I'm glad we were able to. We did come up from the hospital. My husband actually declined an ultrasound for us while we were in the hospital, and I'm really glad he did, because if they had seen meconium in the water or something weird going on. Plus my daughter was 10 pounds went out. So if they had said, oh my goodness, big baby.
00;42;12;27 - 00;42;36;00
Unknown
Like there's so many things that it just really yeah. At the hospital could have. Yeah. We changed over over 40 to larger baby meconium. Yeah I had a lot of things that would have been that would have most likely if I'd stayed in the hospital, it would have turned out very different than it did. And all of those things are variations of normal.
00;42;36;07 - 00;42;54;13
Unknown
Yes. None of those things are real concerns. I also I also keep thinking about your husband stepping away in the head, being born that he better not leave your side with this fourth baby. I know that's what I've seen this time too, but like, I mean, yeah, once my water breaks, you better not go anywhere you want to.
00;42;54;15 - 00;43;09;22
Unknown
He's been wanting to catch a baby since while he wasn't there for our first one. Second and third. And he's just he's never managed to do it. And so I'm like, if you want to catch a baby, you better make sure you're in the right position as soon as my water breaks, because this baby's most likely just flying out.
00;43;09;26 - 00;43;33;28
Unknown
Yeah, pretty much so and so postpartum did anything you know worth noting in your postpartum? I'm assuming, you know, you bleed a normal amount and breastfeeding was easy enough. And, the only other thing worth I think mentioning just because again, this is something isn't it abnormal in most hospital settings at least, is with my son and with my pre-birth.
00;43;34;01 - 00;43;52;29
Unknown
My placenta took a really long time to be delivered with my son. It was three hours and I know, like I know someone who works or worked as a nurse in the labor delivery at her hospital, and she had said, you know, if that person is not worth it, 15 minutes of doctors aggressively trying to get out of the mom.
00;43;53;02 - 00;44;13;28
Unknown
And so just the fact that it was for three hours is a bit unusual. But, I mean, there was no problems. Actually, I bet with my son's birth I eventually pulled my own placenta out because the contractions were starting to get really uncomfortable again. And, by and I just, I pulled it out myself because I was like, I'm done with this.
00;44;13;28 - 00;44;33;05
Unknown
I'm ready to be done with the whole birth thing. I just want to be enjoying my baby. So, wait, you're your midwife with your son left before the placenta was born? The midwife did. She left her apprentice. Her. Her apprentice was there with me. Who? Actually, in hindsight, I liked her apprentice way better. Like, I'm. I'm glad.
00;44;33;07 - 00;44;54;03
Unknown
I'm glad she was the one there, I think, than the midwife. But, yes, the blessing in disguise. Yeah. Pretty much. And then how long did the placenta take with your free birth baby? You know, I honestly, I'm not sure like I wasn't this isn't something I was tracking, which is actually kind of nice because I mean, you know, midwives always tracking like, are you on schedule or whatever?
00;44;54;05 - 00;45;10;17
Unknown
I don't know. I honestly don't know because I was in the tub for however long with her just getting to know her and loving on her. We moved to the to the bedroom. I mean, the cord was completely stopped pulsing at this point, and I think we'd even cut the cord because I think some other people were holding the baby at this point.
00;45;10;17 - 00;45;34;19
Unknown
So it was quite a while after birth. I didn't let it, didn't get to the point where the contractions were really starting up again. I just it was, I don't know, maybe not. It's not really. I mean, in my experience, I've seen home birth and hospital birth, you know, it's not really that abnormal. It's especially the more women that I've been talking to who have, you know, truly undisturbed births.
00;45;34;19 - 00;45;53;14
Unknown
Having it be one, two, three hours, it's been very common to hear, and, you know, with some midwives, they're more comfortable with that. And they don't, you know, they don't they don't interfere. But. Right. Like, exactly like you said at the hospital, it's it's really less than 15 and sometimes even less than that. And, you know, some placentas do detach very quickly.
00;45;53;14 - 00;46;15;12
Unknown
But obviously plenty don't. So it's it's again a variation of normal. You know, you didn't obviously have excessive bleeding and, and anything scary happening. It just it just took a little while and then. Yeah. And then everything else I think was pretty normal other than I like to tell people how big my babies were and the fact that I didn't tear like my smallest baby was 8 pounds, 12oz.
00;46;15;12 - 00;46;42;28
Unknown
My biggest one so far was 10 pounds. What else? And I've never I've never had tearing or anything like that because again, that's something that some I had one mom one time. What are you going to do if you tear like I mean that was her big thing. Like, what are you going to do? And I'm just like, well, I mean, I do have things on hand for if I do tear, but it's just when you're up, when you're moving, when you're I mean, you're doing what's when you're able to move and get in a good position, you're just so much less likely to tear.
00;46;42;28 - 00;47;11;11
Unknown
And yes, I've had I've had big babies with no tearing. So I like I like to tell people that when I'm telling my stories because again, I'm just I feel like I've had several things happen that are considered outside the realm of normal. Even though they're not. They should be considered normal. You know, going late, having big babies, you know, whatever else it is that I just, I want I want more women to feel in control like this.
00;47;11;11 - 00;47;37;18
Unknown
That being pregnant, giving birth is not scary. You're not like it. It shouldn't be scary. It really shouldn't. And I just, I so I try to share certain parts of my stories, you know, different times, different places when it's appropriate just to hopefully help normalize some of these things. Because it's just it's not that scary or it shouldn't be that scary and that the variations of normal are so much wider than the obstetrical model suggests.
00;47;37;21 - 00;48;00;15
Unknown
You know, it's such a narrow, finite, you know, space of, of what's normal and what's allowed. But, you know, your birth stories, multiple, all of them really highlight the very wide, wide range of variability. That's all normal and all healthy. Yeah. So those are my birth stories so far. Yeah I love it. And see you're preparing for this one.
00;48;00;15 - 00;48;20;00
Unknown
Is there anything different that you're going to do this time or any. How do you feel being a month away. Oh my goodness. This is the first one I am I mean I'm so excited. I cannot wait to labor again. I cannot wait to give birth again. I am just I am so excited about this one. And I was like in the past.
00;48;20;00 - 00;48;35;29
Unknown
I've always been excited to meet my babies, but like the whole labor thing, even even about my third one, you know, I'm just like, oh, I don't know if I really want to do this again. And this time I'm just so excited. I am so ready to do this. And I'm just really, I don't know, I'm really I'm I'm ready.
00;48;36;06 - 00;49;03;02
Unknown
I'm not doing as much prenatal care this time. I'm not doing as much for my prenatal care, which again, is very, very freeing. I think I've done a lot more reading and research, just about a good diet. And I mean, I felt this is the pregnancy where I felt the best as I really kept, better track of my diet and making sure that I'm getting nutrients that I need for my food, that I haven't felt a need to monitor things because I feel amazing.
00;49;03;05 - 00;49;24;16
Unknown
The my, you know, the baby's heartbeat is amazing. Everything just this has been my best pregnancy so far, with the least amount of stress, with the least amount of just like, not not worrying about what's happening with me and the baby, I just it's been a really good experience and it's gone by so quickly. I can't believe I only have a month to a month and a half left, and I'm so excited about this.
00;49;24;19 - 00;49;48;13
Unknown
I've thought about meeting my baby. So so beautiful. It's such a beautiful arc of with every pregnancy and with every labor, you took more and more responsibility and followed your intuition more and more. And to see, you know, of course, that it's reflected in your pregnancy, that you feel even better, and that after this super positive one, that you are even more excited for your labor.
00;49;48;15 - 00;50;15;16
Unknown
It's just all these, these foundational steps that you're taking. It's so, so cool to see that arc I have. Sometimes I might catch myself thinking, you know, I wish I would have known about free birth or being comfortable. That was my first. But I remember something that a midwife told me, Karla Hartley, actually, who's a friend, she just told me, you know, each and every step of your birth journey from your first birth, your pregnancies, it all just it all leads to where you are now, like you wouldn't.
00;50;15;18 - 00;50;36;23
Unknown
It's all part of the story. And so it's really helped me just look back on that and be, you know, all of those things, all of the things that happened my first birth, even with my second birth with the midwife that I really didn't like, it's all it's brought me to this point. It's all been steps along the way, steps of learning more about me, about pregnancy, about labor, about delivery that has brought me to this point.
00;50;36;23 - 00;50;54;27
Unknown
And yes, you know that my labor with my second and that midwife was not the best experience. But I don't I don't regret any of it. It's been it's all brought me to where I am now. And I've learned so much through all of it that it's it's just it's brought me to where I am now and I'm grateful for all of those experiences.
00;50;54;27 - 00;51;24;22
Unknown
I'm grateful. I'm really grateful, though, that I am now at the place of free birthing and that I get to I get to do this again. And everything you're saying just it completely embodies the essence of what it means to birth free, you know, and and accepting your past and and accepting all of your, your births and your pregnancies and and really just moving forward with it as lessons and gratitude and and choosing to continue birthing freer and freer.
00;51;24;22 - 00;51;45;06
Unknown
It's it's so beautiful. It's been a good journey. Hard at times is you have to, you know, work through things or whatever. But it's it's been a good journey. Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate you sharing your stories. And I'm sure they're going to really help other mamas listening to this who are also going through similar journeys.
00;51;45;08 - 00;52;11;01
Unknown
Yeah, well, thank you for letting me share. I love talking about my babies in my birth. So, Awesome. All right. Melinda, thank you so much. Thank you. All right. Take care. And we will tune in with Melinda after she has her fourth baby and her second free birth. That's it for today. Everyone. Join us next week for another episode of the Free Birth Podcast.
00;52;11;04 - 00;52;15;29
Unknown
Thanks for joining us. And remember your Body, your choice. Lots of love.
